Myles Jack - LB (merged)

[usmccharles]

4 minutes ago, January J said:

Read an article on  RSR that said we could pursue Von Miller. Would be cool for him to reunite with doom but Wishful thinking for sure.

Link

and wouldnt we have to cut about half our team? that dude is about to get paid...

[January J]

56 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

L tyinky

Lettwouldnt we have to cut about hquotedur team? that dude is about to get  paid...

Yeah pretty much. They Admitted it was wishful thinking, but its a nice thought. Im Tryin to paste The link But for some reason it wont Let me. I absolutely hate thisupdate. Sometimes it Randomly wont Even let me backspace and when im Typing the cursor just randomly jumps around to either the search bar or the Quoted post. This Sucks.

 

[January J]

Just go to Russel street report and you should be able to find it.

[usmccharles]

2 hours ago, January J said:

Just go to Russel street report and you should be able to find it.

I mean it's obviously a good idea.  But it just makes no sense to even think about it.   We don't go after top free Agents. We don't pay top dollar.  We don't even have top dollar.   He's going to get a deal close to watts deal.    Too many needs to do a Suh type move. 

That being said.... Suggs, Doom,  Von.... What in the world would stop them

[ellicottraven]

Where was the need to change this site, when it was phenomenal to begin with. Disappointed with the new updated look and features that are harder to use.

[arnie_uk]

3 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Where was the need to change this site, when it was phenomenal to begin with. Disappointed with the new updated look and features that are harder to use.

All I wanted was to be able to jump from page 1 to 15 on mobile without having to click next page 14 times.

[ALPHA]

8 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Both of them are currently injured to begin with, Jack's injury is less concerning however, I don't know for sure if he can take part in the combine. I disagree however with Jack doing everything better. I think Smith is just as good in coverage as Jack, I've actually seen him cover slot WRs. I think against the run he's better, he just attacks ball carriers and just seems to diagnose the plays perfectly. I'm also well convinced he's the far better pass rusher and can actually have a future as a 3-4 OLB because of his quickness and burst off the edge, he actually has a nice first step. I don't think that is where he'll be here but it wouldn't shock me if he tried to make that transition. With that said, they're both great players but I really think Smith is just a bit better. 

Smith is versatile no doubt, but OLB is a completely different skillset and his size would put him on the very smallest end of that scale. I do like him though, a fast ILB who can cover is worth the 6th overall pick I'm just not convinced Smith can be a difference maker in coverage.

[JoeyFlex5]

ok, i have many thoughts on myles jack, and ive been discussing him a lot on here, so i kinda wanna just lay my thoughts out there... 

 

1. i dont like more finesse players as 3-4 ILBs, i prefer a more well rounded player and if i had to sacrifice a skillset, ill take a guy who can rush and play the run well, let the safeties do their job, let the OLBs and DL take pressure off of the ILBs in the passing game with pass rush, depending on your ILB to cover a wr/te for 4 whole seconds is always a losing formula. 

 

2. i dont believe in spending such a high draft pick(and a rare high pick at that) on a player who we will have to force into a role where he is not slated for success, at 6th overall you take a guy who comes in and plays all 3 downs on day one and doesnt have to bulk up 15 lbs and doesnt have to sub in for nickel packages because he very well may not hold up against the run 

 

3. ILB is a devalued position, yes we love having an elite performing ILB, but idc how good myles jack is in coverage, he wont be looking too great if we ignore the pass rush and he is left out to dry in coverage, and he wont be looking great if he makes every tackle in the run game 5 yards up field because the offense exploits his gaps. of all the front 7 positions, the 3-4 LEAST values the ILBs, your NT, your 5 tech, your edge setter, your DT/anchor, your rush backer, all of these positions far outweigh the value of an ILB, solving the pass rush woes with a truly dominant 5tech(instead of canty and urban) or getting fresh legs as a new rushOLB will simply have more impact than an ILB who is strong in one area and average in another. 

 

4. we are not gonna pay cj mosley his 2nd deal, and then pay jack his 2nd deal 2 years later, we simply arent going to, so are we gonna lose our 6th overall pick or our 17th overall pick? how about we lose neither and dont try to saturate a devalued position... no matter how you look at it, a 17th or a 6th overall pick walking after their rookie deal is an absolute failure.  

 

5. this is the AFC north, look what happened to the steelers defense when they started focusing on speed and finesse, you have to win in the division first.

 

as talented as myles jack is, and i dont say "talented" lightly, if he goes to the right place he could be a perennial DPOY, but i simply dont think baltimore is the place that it happens, if he comes here i think he will be good, not great, and i think he will be gone in the blink of an eye once that rookie deal is up, because 3 years from now we wont let mosley walk, and 2 years later we wont be outbidding anyone for a 2nd ILB. go elsewhere at 6th overall, please, take ramsey, hes built for the physical AFC north and will be maybe the most explosive athlete in the league the day he comes in, take deforest buckner and uner clarence brooks he'll make a calais campbell look subpar, take ronnie stanley and let flacco play without fearing for his life every snap, take tread and give joe a reliable and savvy and refined hardnosed wr, take vh3/alexander and stop the revolving door of practice squad bums blowing every good team we field, but for the love of god, dont spend this 6th overall pick on a guy who doesnt fit the scheme or the hardnosed division and leave us in a situation to watch our 6th overall pick mean nothing in the end when he walks out the door. 

 

neg away.

Edited January 28, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[Cville-Raven]

10 hours ago, January J said:

Read an article on  RSR that said we could pursue Von Miller. Would be cool for him to reunite with doom but Wishful thinking for sure. 

Ok no way that happens. Nothing more than a pipe dream.

[January J]

12 hours ago, usmccharles said:

 

 

 

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

ok, i have many thoughts on myles jack, and ive been discussing him a lot on here, so i kinda wanna just lay my thoughts out there... 

 

1. i dont like more finesse players as 3-4 ILBs, i prefer a more well rounded player and if i had to sacrifice a skillset, ill take a guy who can rush and play the run well, let the safeties do their job, let the OLBs and DL take pressure off of the ILBs in the passing game with pass rush, depending on your ILB to cover a wr/te for 4 whole seconds is always a losing formula. 

 

2. i dont believe in spending such a high draft pick(and a rare high pick at that) on a player who we will have to force into a role where he is not slated for success, at 6th overall you take a guy who comes in and plays all 3 downs on day one and doesnt have to bulk up 15 lbs and doesnt have to sub in for nickel packages because he very well may not hold up against the run 

 

3. ILB is a devalued position, yes we love having an elite performing ILB, but idc how good myles jack is in coverage, he wont be looking too great if we ignore the pass rush and he is left out to dry in coverage, and he wont be looking great if he makes every tackle in the run game 5 yards up field because the offense exploits his gaps. of all the front 7 positions, the 3-4 LEAST values the ILBs, your NT, your 5 tech, your edge setter, your DT/anchor, your rush backer, all of these positions far outweigh the value of an ILB, solving the pass rush woes with a truly dominant 5tech(instead of canty and urban) or getting fresh legs as a new rushOLB will simply have more impact than an ILB who is strong in one area and average in another. 

 

4. we are not gonna pay cj mosley his 2nd deal, and then pay jack his 2nd deal 2 years later, we simply arent going to, so are we gonna lose our 6th overall pick or our 17th overall pick? how about we lose neither and dont try to saturate a devalued position... no matter how you look at it, a 17th or a 6th overall pick walking after their rookie deal is an absolute failure.  

 

5. this is the AFC north, look what happened to the steelers defense when they started focusing on speed and finesse, you have to win in the division first.

 

as talented as myles jack is, and i dont say "talented" lightly, if he goes to the right place he could be a perennial DPOY, but i simply dont think baltimore is the place that it happens, if he comes here i think he will be good, not great, and i think he will be gone in the blink of an eye once that rookie deal is up, because 3 years from now we wont let mosley walk, and 2 years later we wont be outbidding anyone for a 2nd ILB. go elsewhere at 6th overall, please, take ramsey, hes built for the physical AFC north and will be maybe the most explosive athlete in the league the day he comes in, take deforest buckner and uner clarence brooks he'll make a calais campbell look subpar, take ronnie stanley and let flacco play without fearing for his life every snap, take tread and give joe a reliable and savvy and refined hardnosed wr, take vh3/alexander and stop the revolving door of practice squad bums blowing every good team we field, but for the love of god, dont spend this 6th overall pick on a guy who doesnt fit the scheme or the hardnosed division and leave us in a situation to watch our 6th overall pick mean nothing in the end when he walks out the door. 

 

neg away.

Well you Wont Be getting any negs From me..everything you said makes Perfect sense, infact You just convinced me It would be an unwise pick. Im Back on the Ramsey train. either that or The buckner Brigade. Treadwell if they Both are gone along with bosa and tunsil.

Edited January 28, 2016 by January J
update glitch

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, January J said:

 

 

Well you Wont Be getting any negs From me..everything you said makes Perfect sense, infact You just convinced me It would be an unwise pick. Im Back on the Ramsey train. either that or The buckner Brigade. Treadwell if they Both are gone along with bosa and tunsil.

heh, good arguments tend to get negged because people cant put their favoritism aside in lieu of facts, the more thought i put into a post the more negs i expect lol. 

 

that said, i still think jack is an immense talent, i just dont want him here at the cost. its no different than me saying that i dont wanna leave us cap strapped to sign an alshon jeffrey who may command 7-8m a year. making any move in this league has its cost, some things you just cant afford, a coverage specialist LB is not worth the asking price of a 6th overall pick for us.

[GrimCoconut]

19 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

ok, i have many thoughts on myles jack, and ive been discussing him a lot on here, so i kinda wanna just lay my thoughts out there... 

1. i dont like more finesse players as 3-4 ILBs, i prefer a more well rounded player and if i had to sacrifice a skillset, ill take a guy who can rush and play the run well, let the safeties do their job

neg away.

I think your perspective is far too myopic. Just because we run a 3-4 base doesn't mean we can't switch to a 4-3 base or use it more often. I don't like it because it reduces the players at what I feel the current strength of the team [DL] but we can effectively run the 4 3 with Jack, Mosley and Smith or Orr. 

In that case he's no longer a sub package player but an every down one. Furthermore, look no further than the two defenses in the Super Bowl, whose linebackers are the strength of those teams.

Your argument centers around how he [Jack] doesn't fit the 3-4, which is highly flawed and narrow in scope because the system should fit the players. You don't pass on a potentially elite player because they don't fit your system. A good DC fits their system around their players. Would you pass on Aaron Donald for Mosley?

Edited January 28, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[arnie_uk]

19 hours ago, January J said:

 

 

Well you Wont Be getting any negs From me..everything you said makes Perfect sense, infact You just convinced me It would be an unwise pick. Im Back on the Ramsey train. either that or The buckner Brigade. Treadwell if they Both are gone along with bosa and tunsil.

Go on stop quoting long posts 

[JoeyFlex5]

16 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think your perspective is far too myopic. Just because we run a 3-4 base doesn't mean we can't switch to a 4-3 base or use it more often. I don't like it because it reduces the players at what I feel the current strength of the team [DL] but we can effectively run the 4 3 with Jack, Mosley and Smith or Orr. 

In that case he's not longer a sub package player but an every down one. Furthermore, look no further than the two defenses in the Super Bowl, whose linebackers are the strength of those teams.

Your argument centers around how he [Jack] doesn't fit the 3-4, which is highly flawed and narrow in scope because the system should fit the players. You don't pass on a potentially elite player because they don't fit your system. A good DC fits their system around their players. 

But pees is our dc probably for the foreseeable future, pees doesn't tailor his scheme to the players, he forces players into his scheme. So this argument is pretty much moot. 

 

The linebackers being the strength of those teams is not exactly relevant either. The Panthers are a full time 4-3 with 3 dominant linebackers and a stellar DL, the Broncos run the best coached 3-4 hybrid in the league under wade Phillips with von Miller and Damarcus ware lighting it up in the pass rush and the best secondary in the league. We run a 3-4 hybrid under a mediocre coordinator with an atrocious secondary and edge defenders who are way over the hill and no future in sight at these positions... I don't see any relevance at all here. I usually agree or at least understand your rationale in all your posts but I'm not seeing it here lol

[BmoreBird22]

On 1/27/2016 at 9:34 AM, PurpleCity5 said:

Both of them are currently injured to begin with, Jack's injury is less concerning however, I don't know for sure if he can take part in the combine. I disagree however with Jack doing everything better. I think Smith is just as good in coverage as Jack, I've actually seen him cover slot WRs. I think against the run he's better, he just attacks ball carriers and just seems to diagnose the plays perfectly. I'm also well convinced he's the far better pass rusher and can actually have a future as a 3-4 OLB because of his quickness and burst off the edge, he actually has a nice first step. I don't think that is where he'll be here but it wouldn't shock me if he tried to make that transition. With that said, they're both great players but I really think Smith is just a bit better. 

It won't let me bold a statement in your post, but in all seriousness, without actually reading this post, I actually just posted yesterday about the possibility of Jaylon Smith being a 3-4 OLB and why it isn't talked about when so many people are enamored with the undersized, but very fast Leonard Floyd.

[January J]

16 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

Go on stop quoting long posts 

I was addressing him, and the new update will not allow me to shorten quotes. Sorry buck.

[GrimCoconut]

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

But pees is our dc probably for the foreseeable future, pees doesn't tailor his scheme to the players, he forces players into his scheme. So this argument is pretty much moot. 

 

The linebackers being the strength of those teams is not exactly relevant either. The Panthers are a full time 4-3 with 3 dominant linebackers and a stellar DL, the Broncos run the best coached 3-4 hybrid in the league under wade Phillips with von Miller and Damarcus ware lighting it up in the pass rush and the best secondary in the league. We run a 3-4 hybrid under a mediocre coordinator with an atrocious secondary and edge defenders who are way over the hill and no future in sight at these positions... I don't see any relevance at all here. I usually agree or at least understand your rationale in all your posts but I'm not seeing it here lol

Pees tailored the defense more to his players later in the year, so that's not entirely true. Furthermore, it's just as stupid to pass on a potential game changer at LB because of a current scheme and coordinator. Schemes and coordinators constantly change. So no, your point is in fact moot. 

Our DL is pretty exceptional as well. You can't simply eliminate a player from contention as a result of scheme or coordinator because these are constantly changing. There's plenty of relevance you're only blinded by your bias to see it. I certainly see your perspective and even understand it; I just think it's far too narrow minded. 

[GrimCoconut]

42 minutes ago, January J said:

I was addressing him, and the new update will not allow me to shorten quotes. 

GrimCoconut edited this quote by deleting "Sorry buck"

Yes, it will. Simply click inside the quoted statement within the quote parameters and delete text, as demonstrated in your quote above. 

[GrimCoconut]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It won't let me bold a statement in your post, but in all seriousness, without actually reading this post, I actually just posted yesterday about the possibility of Jaylon Smith being a 3-4 OLB and why it isn't talked about when so many people are enamored with the undersized, but very fast Leonard Floyd.

Not to take away from what you're saying here but PurpleCity beat you to the punch on that switch and idea a couple days ago. I'm not sure where but he did. I know this because it involved my post lol

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, GrimCoconut said:

Not to take away from what you're saying here but PurpleCity beat you to the punch on that switch and idea a couple days ago. I'm not sure where but he did. I know this because it involved my post lol

I know he beat me to it because I was quoting that exact post right there, but I didn't even see this thread because I don't have much interest in Myles Jack. I posted the switch in who should we take at sixth overall.

[GrimCoconut]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I know he beat me to it because I was quoting that exact post right there, but I didn't even see this thread because I don't have much interest in Myles Jack. I posted the switch in who should we take at sixth overall.

Ah I see. 

Yeah, like I said to PC, I really like Jaylon. It's an interesting idea switching his position. He certainly has the height for it; however, there's a substantial amount of weight he needs to gain, and then you've gotta wonder if he'll be the same player. I certainly like him better than Floyd, but I'm not very high on him as a 6th overall pick at all atm. 

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

Ah I see. 

Yeah, like I said to PC, I really like Jaylon. It's an interesting idea switching his position. He certainly has the height for it; however, there's a substantial amount of weight he needs to gain, and then you've gotta wonder if he'll be the same player. I certainly like him better than Floyd, but I'm not very high on him as a 6th overall pick at all atm. 

Well, I proposed the idea in the other thread purely because people got really excited about Leonard Floyd and his speed, despite his size, and I proposed that Jaylon Smith would be in the same boat in that he's small, but lighting fast. I like Smith a lot more, though.

However, PC was saying he's up to 240. If he could add like 10-15 pounds, I'd take him as an outside linebacker in a heartbeat. He could handle the weakside as a pass rusher that way.

[GrimCoconut]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, I proposed the idea in the other thread purely because people got really excited about Leonard Floyd and his speed, despite his size, and I proposed that Jaylon Smith would be in the same boat in that he's small, but lighting fast. I like Smith a lot more, though.

However, PC was saying he's up to 240. If he could add like 10-15 pounds, I'd take him as an outside linebacker in a heartbeat. He could handle the weakside as a pass rusher that way.

I agree on your first point. I read your post there and I agree with you. I just don't like Floyd for some reason. He's explosive but I feel like that's all he offers. He looks like a pure DPR to me and I don't see the ability to improve, unlike Spence and Smith and others like Ngakoue. 

I agree with you that if Smith is at that weight, it wouldn't be much to add about 10lbs to play OLB. At that point I'd take him without a second thought over others, even Spence. 

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

I agree on your first point. I read your post there and I agree with you. I just don't like Floyd for some reason. He's explosive but I feel like that's all he offers. He looks like a pure DPR to me and I don't see the ability to improve, unlike Spence and Smith and others like Ngakoue. 

I agree with you that if Smith is at that weight, it wouldn't be much to add about 10lbs to play OLB. At that point I'd take him without a second thought over others, even Spence. 

I don't like Floyd at all. I made a large list of concerns earlier in the year and I haven't changed since then. Floyd is just too risky because he could be Jamie Collins or he could be Deion Jordan. I'm leaning toward the latter.

 

I don't get the hype to take Spence at six, honestly. I'd trade back for him, but not take him at six.

[January J]

23 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yes, it will. Simply click inside the quoted statement within the quote parameters and delete text, as demonstrated in your quote above. 

Obviously I have tried that. I don't know if it has to do with the type of phone I am on but It is extremely difficult for me to even post or move my cursor around without it jumping wildly all over the place. I will try it again, maybe they have fixed the bug. But yeah my cursor literally jumps to the search bar or elsewhere every 3 or 4 characters even when back spacing. I've pretty much giving up on my phone..I'm at home now so I'm on my iPad which is much easier.

Edited January 29, 2016 by January J

[GrimCoconut]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't like Floyd at all. I made a large list of concerns earlier in the year and I haven't changed since then. Floyd is just too risky because he could be Jamie Collins or he could be Deion Jordan. I'm leaning toward the latter.

 

I don't get the hype to take Spence at six, honestly. I'd trade back for him, but not take him at six.

That's fair. I don't mind your opinion and I know you're personally not very big on him. I read your comments regarding your concern on his abilities, especially as a run defender. 

He certainly needs to improve his ability as a run defender but the talent is certainly there. I hate to use stats because they can mislead, but he was sixth nationally in TFL with 14.5 in 2014 while at OSU. I'd say that shows he can make an impact as a run defender, because I've seen his TFL and he's hit or miss. 

I certainly think you're being too tough on him. 

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

That's fair. I don't mind your opinion and I know you're personally not very big on him. I read your comments regarding your concern on his abilities, especially as a run defender. 

He certainly needs to improve his ability as a run defender but the talent is certainly there. I hate to use stats because they can mislead, but he was sixth nationally in TFL with 14.5 in 2014 while at OSU. I'd say that shows he can make an impact as a run defender, because I've seen his TFL and he's hit or miss. 

I certainly think you're being too tough on him. 

I believe sacks factor into TFL, but his run defense isn't the only concern I have. I have concerns as a pass rusher.

[GrimCoconut]

6 minutes ago, January J said:

Obviously I have tried that. I don't know if it has to do with the type of phone I am on but It is extremely difficult for me to even post or move my cursor around without it jumping wildly all over the place. I will try it again, maybe they have fixed the bug. But yeah my cursor literally jumps to the search bar or elsewhere every 3 or 4 characters even when back spacing. I've pretty much giving up on my phone..I'm at home now so I'm on my iPad which is much easier.

That's strange. What kind of phone? I use Android Samsung S6 active and use the default browser with no issues. 

[GrimCoconut]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I believe sacks factor into TFL, but his run defense isn't the only concern I have. I have concerns as a pass rusher.

What concerns do you have as a pass rusher? His hands I think are what you said? His hands are plenty fast and he bends really well at the edge and understands how and when to stunt and move inside. He's plenty fast off the ball. His areas of improvement are areas every pass rusher must improve on entering the NFL. The most complete player I've seen recently at the position was Mack. Even Miller had areas requiring improvement. 

[PurpleCity5]

4 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It won't let me bold a statement in your post, but in all seriousness, without actually reading this post, I actually just posted yesterday about the possibility of Jaylon Smith being a 3-4 OLB and why it isn't talked about when so many people are enamored with the undersized, but very fast Leonard Floyd.

I think Floyd just has more experience as a OLB/DE which is why I'm guessing people would believe that's what he is. I can honestly see his size being too big of a problem for him in the future. On the subject of Smith, he's a bit undersized for an OLB but he does come in at 240 according to CBS, I think if he can gain pounds without losing burst and speed, that he COULD have a future off the edge because he's impressively quick and explosive there, his first step is also so natural. I'm personally impressed with his ability to get off the edge so well. I think if he does come in the combine at 240, then you have to seriously consider him in the 3-4 OLB role. IMO he could be a great fit in a hybrid scheme such as ours. Right now he's in my top five along with Spence, Ramsey, Stanley, and Bosa. If he's at that 250 range I would absolutely take him as well.

Edited January 29, 2016 by PurpleCity5