Myles Jack - LB (merged)

[GrimCoconut]

11 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

If Jaylon Smith falls out of the first round (which I would assume is solely due to his medical because his tape is good), then there is 0 chance Ozzie will take him at the top of the 2nd. 

Do you mean there's a 0% chance Ozzie doesn't take him? Just clarifying here.

[GrimCoconut]

29 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Yeah, hopefully I can find it. I think pass rushing is an underrated skill set of his. If he can bulk up he can probably be our OLB for the future. He is just so talented honestly. He can do it all. I hope he can bulk up without losing the speed, the guy is just so natural in coverage. 

I think he gets a lot of credit as a pass rusher, actually. I've read articles that praise his pass rushing skills. He's got a lot of bulking up to become a 3-4 OLB, however. If he's really 229, he's got to put on around 25lbs at the very least. That's not easy to do.

[Sizzlebshu]

40 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Do you mean there's a 0% chance Ozzie doesn't take him? Just clarifying here.

Jaylon smith will not be drafted by the ravens is what i mean

[rmw10]

13 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think he gets a lot of credit as a pass rusher, actually. I've read articles that praise his pass rushing skills. He's got a lot of bulking up to become a 3-4 OLB, however. If he's really 229, he's got to put on around 25lbs at the very least. That's not easy to do.

That's why I'm not confident.  I think he's a guy that is going to be best in space, but I don't see him as being able to shed blocks consistently unless he's able to put on considerable weight.

[GrimCoconut]

2 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Jaylon smith will not be drafted by the ravens is what i mean

So you think if he's there with our second round pick we wouldn't take him? What's your rationale, in the event that does happen? Never mind how unlikely it is. 

[Sizzlebshu]

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

So you think if he's there with our second round pick we wouldn't take him? What's your rationale, in the event that does happen? Never mind how unlikely it is. 

Well jaylon smith is a top 5 talent who is only dropping because of his medical. If his medical checked out he would be an option at 6. 

 

If we dont take him at 6 it means he was either not the best guy on our board or more likely he failed his medical. If he failed his medical ozzie wont take him

[Sizzlebshu]

If his medical checks out he likely doesnt drop to the 2nd

[RavensFanMania]

1 minute ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Well jaylon smith is a top 5 talent who is only dropping because of his medical. If his medical checked out he would be an option at 6. 

 

If we dont take him at 6 it means he was either not the best guy on our board or more likely he failed his medical. If he failed his medical ozzie wont take him

I absolutely agree, Ozzie won't take him if he fails his medical.  Howevever if he passes his medical and is available at the end of the first round, I'm hoping we attempt to trade back into the first round to get him.  That being said, I still see him being drafted no later than 20.

[sflegend89]

Jack is a hell of a ball player/athlete but I would take Ramsey all day over him if they're both available

[GrimCoconut]

4 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Well jaylon smith is a top 5 talent who is only dropping because of his medical. If his medical checked out he would be an option at 6. 

 

If we dont take him at 6 it means he was either not the best guy on our board or more likely he failed his medical. If he failed his medical ozzie wont take him

What if his medical does check out but we like Myles Jack better & take him at #6, but then we see that Smith is available for us to select with our second round pick. Do you still think we'd pass? 

I think it's moot since I expect him to be gone well before it, just like Gurley before him. I'm just wondering your thoughts here. Just because we passed on him at #6 doesn't mean his medical didn't check out. It could mean we had a guy higher on our board.

[rmw10]

6 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Well jaylon smith is a top 5 talent who is only dropping because of his medical. If his medical checked out he would be an option at 6. 

 

If we dont take him at 6 it means he was either not the best guy on our board or more likely he failed his medical. If he failed his medical ozzie wont take him

 

There's probably a good chance he's not going to pass his medical being that he's potentially out for the entire 2016-2017 season.  That's probably a reason why he might not be an option at 6.

[Sizzlebshu]

Just now, GrimCoconut said:

What if his medical does check out but we like Myles Jack better & take him at #6, but then we see that Smith is available for us to select with our second round pick. Do you still think we'd pass? 

I think it's moot since I expect him to be gone well before it, just like Gurley before him. I'm just wondering your thoughts here. Just because we passed on him at #6 doesn't mean his medical didn't check out. It could mean we had a guy higher on our board.

Read the second part of my statement and yeah qe would pass if we take jack. What happens to mosely? Do we justvkill the 34? Doubtful

[Sizzlebshu]

6 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

If his medical checks out he likely doesnt drop to the 2nd

 

[GrimCoconut]

Just now, Sizzlebshu said:

Read the second part of my statement and yeah qe would pass if we take jack. What happens to mosely? Do we justvkill the 34? Doubtful

I did, but your comment sounded a bit inaccurate. It didn't make sense to be honest. You said Ozzie wouldn't take him if he's there at our second round pick. Well, what if Ozzie has Ramsey as the #2 overall prospect and Smith as the #4, and both are there? He'll probably take Ramsey. Then look, he's there with our second round pick. Why would we pass on him there? 

Your argument was that he either didn't check out medically, which is the only reason why he would be there with our second round pick. If he's there and he did check out, but teams don't take him for whatever reason, why not? Your initial statement was absolute, when in reality such a statement isn't quite so absolute. 

[sflegend89]

1 hour ago, Sizzlebshu said:

If Jaylon Smith falls out of the first round (which I would assume is solely due to his medical because his tape is good), then there is 0 chance Ozzie will take him at the top of the 2nd. 

 

I don't think there's anyway Jaylon falls out of the 1st round unless his medical comes back really bad for some unforeseen reason. Unquestionably a top 10 talent, he's also not the first player to get a knee injury, to me it's nothing short of foolish to pass on a potentially elite long term player because you're too impatient to wait on him short term (That is for teams picking outside the top 10). This isn't a dynamite 1st round of players, sooner rather than later his talent is going to be too much to pass up.

Edited January 27, 2016 by sflegend89

[Sizzlebshu]

4 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I did, but your comment sounded a bit inaccurate. It didn't make sense to be honest. You said Ozzie wouldn't take him if he's there at our second round pick. Well, what if Ozzie has Ramsey as the #2 overall prospect and Smith as the #4, and both are there? He'll probably take Ramsey. Then look, he's there with our second round pick. Why would we pass on him there? 

Your argument was that he either didn't check out medically, which is the only reason why he would be there with our second round pick. If he's there and he did check out, but teams don't take him for whatever reason, why not? Your initial statement was absolute, when in reality such a statement isn't quite so absolute. 

Rainbows and puppy dogs

 

i mean if his medical comes back clean, he gets passed on by all 31 other teams despite being a "top talent" either the entire league screwed up and ozzie is the luckiest guy on earth or some team will grab him before pur pick because idt there are 32 first rounders in this draft and he would be one of them

[RavensFanMania]

23 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

That's why I'm not confident.  I think he's a guy that is going to be best in space, but I don't see him as being able to shed blocks consistently unless he's able to put on considerable weight.

I agree.  The tape that I have watched of Jack shows him to be a very versatile player that can cover TEs RB and Slot Receivers, which is all said and good.  However his weakness AND it will be a very big one in the nfl, is that he is not good at shedding blocks.  I'd be extremely hesitant to take him at 6 for this reason. 

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

I agree.  The tape that I have watched of Jack shows him to be a very versatile player that can cover TEs RB and Slot Receivers, which is all said and good.  However his weakness AND it will be a very big one in the nfl, is that he is not good at shedding blocks.  I'd be extremely hesitant to take him at 6 for this reason. 

 

Well, I was talking about Smith, but I agree to an extent regarding Jack.  I also think he's a guy that would be best in space, but I do think he has the size to operate as a 3-4 ILB when in that version of the defense.  I think both Jack and Smith would excel as WLBs in a 4-3.  I have more confidence in Jack in a 3-4 set than I do Smith.  Regardless, both are fantastic players.

Edited January 27, 2016 by rmw10

[RavensFanMania]

3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

 

Well, I was talking about Smith, but I agree to an extent regarding Jack.  I also think he's a guy that would be best in space, but I do think he has the size to operate as a 3-4 ILB when in that version of the defense.  I think both Jack and Smith would excel as WLBs in a 4-3.  I have more confidence in Jack in a 3-4 set than I do Smith.  Regardless, both are fantastic players.

Yep, Smith and Jack would be awesome in a 4-3, which brings up another point.  We hired a DL coach that coaches 4-3 lineman.  Any thoughts on us changing to a 4-3, since we also brought in Frazier as our DB coach who is has a ton of experience as a DC in a 4-3. 

[Sizzlebshu]

Just now, RavensFanMania said:

Yep, Smith and Jack would be awesome in a 4-3, which brings up another point.  We hired a DL coach that coaches 4-3 lineman.  Any thoughts on us changing to a 4-3, since we also brought in Frazier as our DB coach who is has a ton of experience as a DC in a 4-3. 

If we could ban this discussion about converting to a 43. Every year..,,

 

when we fire harbaugh we can consider it. Switching to a 43 means we need the personnel and it invariably means some wont fit

[rmw10]

7 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

Yep, Smith and Jack would be awesome in a 4-3, which brings up another point.  We hired a DL coach that coaches 4-3 lineman.  Any thoughts on us changing to a 4-3, since we also brought in Frazier as our DB coach who is has a ton of experience as a DC in a 4-3. 

 

I think you'll see a few more 4-3 looks on occasion, but it's still a hybrid defense anyways so it likely doesn't even matter.

 

I've always been one that wants guys in the best possible situation to succeed.  That's why I do have some reservations about guys like Jaylon Smith.  I think he could function as an ILB in the 3-4, but you aren't getting the best version of him if you do that.  If I'm picking a guy early, I want him to be at his best in every situation

[ellicottraven]

Any ideas on which Senior Bowl players the Ravens will watch closely? And where would you get more info on Senior Bowl practices and evaluations?

[RavensFanMania]

44 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

 

I think you'll see a few more 4-3 looks on occasion, but it's still a hybrid defense anyways so it likely doesn't even matter.

 

I've always been one that wants guys in the best possible situation to succeed.  That's why I do have some reservations about guys like Jaylon Smith.  I think he could function as an ILB in the 3-4, but you aren't getting the best version of him if you do that.  If I'm picking a guy early, I want him to be at his best in every situation

I totally agree with drafting players and putting them in a position to succeed.  It would make no sense to draft a player and place him in a situation that isn't a strength.  I'd much prefer Bosa, because I feel he could be an outstanding 3-4 DE/edge hybrid presence for us and he remains my first choice if available.  You can't have too many players who can rush the passer and of course we were missing this a lot this year.  My favorite DB is Ramsey.  He may not have the best backpedal, but I want him as a hybrid safety for us.  He's a playmaker and could be that missing piece we severely needed on the backend the past couple of years.  Then I like Treadwell.  I'm assuming Tunsil is gone because he is my overall favorite in this draft class. 

 

1. Tunsil

2. Bosa

3. Ramsey

4. Treadwell

 

I believe these players are elite talents from this draft class and it wouldn't take me long to  turn in that draft card on one of them. 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by RavensFanMania

[RavensFanMania]

30 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

If we could ban this discussion about converting to a 43. Every year..,,

 

when we fire harbaugh we can consider it. Switching to a 43 means we need the personnel and it invariably means some wont fit

I don't we should switch to a 4-3 for the same reason you just said.  We don't have the personnel to run it AND I understand that we run a hybrid scheme anyways.  We are in base 3-4 only about 45% of the time anyway.  That being said, I only brought it up based on the assistants we just brought in.  End of discussion.

[sflegend89]

Jack is a sink or swim prospect imo. Potential to be a pro bowl caliber LB with immense versatility and cover ability but also a lot of bust potential. Another thing to consider is the scheme fit, most see him as a 4-3 OLB at he next level, I'm not sure I'm loving his fit as a ILB in our defense as he's pretty undersized.

[ALPHA]

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Any ideas on which Senior Bowl players the Ravens will watch closely? And where would you get more info on Senior Bowl practices and evaluations?

As mentioned Joe Cullen is a 4 front specialist so maybe a penetrator like Aldophus Washington

[PurpleCity5]

5 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think he gets a lot of credit as a pass rusher, actually. I've read articles that praise his pass rushing skills. He's got a lot of bulking up to become a 3-4 OLB, however. If he's really 229, he's got to put on around 25lbs at the very least. That's not easy to do.

I'v seen reports out there that says hes 240. I just think that if you want him to gain weight, you would hope he doesn't lose that speed and quickness that is what partly makes him so great. IMO I really like Jack, but Smith is just a bit above him in almost everything, his coverage skills are on par and his pass rushing and run stopping is better. I just think Smith is so talented honestly. My biggest and only problem is that we missed a year with 1st round rookie WR Breshad Perriman, will Ozzie and the F.O have that same patience with a guy who tore his ACL who he will contemplate picking top 10? I can easily see him being a Raven if we weren't picking this high.

 

 

[ALPHA]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I'v seen reports out there that says hes 240. I just think that if you want him to gain weight, you would hope he doesn't lose that speed and quickness that is what partly makes him so great. IMO I really like Jack, but Smith is just a bit above him in almost everything, his coverage skills are on par and his pass rushing and run stopping is better. I just think Smith is so talented honestly. My biggest and only problem is that we missed a year with 1st round rookie WR Breshad Perriman, will Ozzie and the F.O have that same patience with a guy who tore his ACL who he will contemplate picking top 10? I can easily see him being a Raven if we weren't picking this high.

 

The only thing that makes me favor Smith over Jack is the injury, if we go pre-injury Smith is bigger sure but IMO Jack does everything better.

[PurpleCity5]

5 hours ago, ALPHA said:

 

The only thing that makes me favor Smith over Jack is the injury, if we go pre-injury Smith is bigger sure but IMO Jack does everything better.

Both of them are currently injured to begin with, Jack's injury is less concerning however, I don't know for sure if he can take part in the combine. I disagree however with Jack doing everything better. I think Smith is just as good in coverage as Jack, I've actually seen him cover slot WRs. I think against the run he's better, he just attacks ball carriers and just seems to diagnose the plays perfectly. I'm also well convinced he's the far better pass rusher and can actually have a future as a 3-4 OLB because of his quickness and burst off the edge, he actually has a nice first step. I don't think that is where he'll be here but it wouldn't shock me if he tried to make that transition. With that said, they're both great players but I really think Smith is just a bit better. 

[January J]

Read an article on  RSR that said we could pursue Von Miller. Would be cool for him to reunite with doom but Wishful thinking for sure.