Is Kamar Aiken worth a 2nd round tender?

[ArsenalRaven666]

27 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

this year

Thankyou

Would give him the second round tender rather then let him walk, If someone wants to pay that cost even better.

[Tenacious Faulker]

On 2/2/2016 at 9:20 AM, 757RavensFan said:

 

Like BmoreBird22 said, that's impossible.  There's only 3 types of tenders; 1st round, 2nd round and low round tender.  Since Kamar wasn't drafted, we wouldn't get a draft pick if Oz puts a "low round" tender on him.  If a low round tender is put on Kamar and an offers sheet is put in by another team, the Ravens would have the first right of refusal and could offer the same or a better deal to keep Aiken.  If Aiken takes the offer from the other team, we get nothing.   

OK, so let me revise - a "low round tend" is what they'll likely put on him (that was implied by the $1.3M which is the low-tender amount.

My point is even if we end up getting the lowest amount for him it becomes a net gain since he's undrafted and it's unclear to us outsiders if he's actually worth keeping at a 2nd round tender or higher.

[RavensDieHard21]

I think that we should tender him and hope to reach a deal before the draft, or at least before Ozzie starts his free agency months after the new season starts lol. I think Aiken was a bright spot this year as he displayed speed, decent routes, and most importantly the desire to go get the ball and to hang onto it! It is certainly worth the cost to see how he can continue to contribute.

[thieverycorporation]

7 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I think that we should tender him and hope to reach a deal before the draft, or at least before Ozzie starts his free agency months after the new season starts lol. I think Aiken was a bright spot this year as he displayed speed, decent routes, and most importantly the desire to go get the ball and to hang onto it! It is certainly worth the cost to see how he can continue to contribute.

Agreed competely.

[B-more Ravor]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 1:53 PM, Tenacious Faulker said:

OK, so let me revise - a "low round tend" is what they'll likely put on him (that was implied by the $1.3M which is the low-tender amount.

My point is even if we end up getting the lowest amount for him it becomes a net gain since he's undrafted and it's unclear to us outsiders if he's actually worth keeping at a 2nd round tender or higher.

 

For an UDFA, the so-called "low round tender" (really, the "low" tender) only provides the Ravens with the ability to match any offer for Aiken.  The low tender gives them no compensation since Aiken was originally an UDFA. 

And, given, how tight they will likely be against the Cap - and how flush with Cap space many teams are going to be - it would be pretty easy for a another team to fashion a deal that the Ravens would not be able to match.

[rmw10]

5 minutes ago, B-more Ravor said:

 

For an UDFA, the so-called "low round tender" (really, the "low" tender) only provides the Ravens with the ability to match any offer for Aiken.  The low tender gives them no compensation since Aiken was originally an UDFA. 

And, given, how tight they will likely be against the Cap - and how flush with Cap space many teams are going to be - it would be pretty easy for a another team to fashion a deal that the Ravens would not be able to match.

Yeah that's the holdup for me in giving him the original round tender.  I don't think he'll command any insane amount of money, but a team with a lot of cap space that likes him could easily offer him a front loaded deal that we can't match.

[RavensFanMania]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Yeah that's the holdup for me in giving him the original round tender.  I don't think he'll command any insane amount of money, but a team with a lot of cap space that likes him could easily offer him a front loaded deal that we can't match.

give him the 2nd round tender and be done with it.  As was mentioned, he was a bright spot to the season and is a good #3 receiver with the ability to step into starter role for extended time, if needed. 

[thieverycorporation]

7 hours ago, RavensFanMania said:

give him the 2nd round tender and be done with it.  As was mentioned, he was a bright spot to the season and is a good #3 receiver with the ability to step into starter role for extended time, if needed. 

It doesn't get no simpler or plainer then that. Point blank. 

[cobrajet]

No one is going after him at a second round tender but they would a low round tender since he was an UDFA. This one is a tough question for me. I want to keep Kamar, but with our cap space, over 2 million is a lot of money. I would have said put the second round tender on him, but because I was so wrong about Marlon Brown, I have to admit.....I STILL can't make up my mind. I am even willing to bet Ozzie is even glad he has until March to think on this one.

[Tenacious Faulker]

1 hour ago, cobrajet said:

No one is going after him at a second round tender but they would a low round tender since he was an UDFA. This one is a tough question for me. I want to keep Kamar, but with our cap space, over 2 million is a lot of money. I would have said put the second round tender on him, but because I was so wrong about Marlon Brown, I have to admit.....I STILL can't make up my mind. I am even willing to bet Ozzie is even glad he has until March to think on this one.

I think a 2nd rd tender is still about $2.02M.  IMO he seems to have shown he can be reliable and was fair as a #1WR.  It might be unfair but I think I'd need to see more out of his before we commit $2M to him especially with an untested Perriman, a returning Steve Smith, and a field of other journeymen with breakout potential like Waller, Matthews, Camp and D.Brown. Ozzie & Co. would have to know that they are going to keep in Baltimore and/or that another team is willing to take a 2nd rd flier on Aiken because free agency and the draft will have occurred well before June 1st.

[Willbacker]

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 3:03 PM, B-more Ravor said:

 

For an UDFA, the so-called "low round tender" (really, the "low" tender) only provides the Ravens with the ability to match any offer for Aiken.  The low tender gives them no compensation since Aiken was originally an UDFA. 

And, given, how tight they will likely be against the Cap - and how flush with Cap space many teams are going to be - it would be pretty easy for a another team to fashion a deal that the Ravens would not be able to match.

I'm not sure if "the low rd tender" even exists anymore since rookies with the new CBA sign 4 yr contracts and essentially RFA's are normally undrafted or have been cut by other teams with 3 yrs or less experience. Hopefully you can answer a couple questions of mine. Ist question is if one of those cut players was actually drafted in 3rd rd or below can we get compensation if another team signs him to a contract if we offer him low rd tender. 2nd question is I noticed Jensen was an ERFA but we actually drafted him. Was he cut and resigned? And if that's the case can we still get compensation for him if we offer low rd tender when the time comes?

Just being curious. lol

 

[rmw10]

44 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

I'm not sure if "the low rd tender" even exists anymore since rookies with the new CBA sign 4 yr contracts and essentially RFA's are normally undrafted or have been cut by other teams with 3 yrs or less experience. Hopefully you can answer a couple questions of mine. Ist question is if one of those cut players was actually drafted in 3rd rd or below can we get compensation if another team signs him to a contract if we offer him low rd tender. 2nd question is I noticed Jensen was an ERFA but we actually drafted him. Was he cut and resigned? And if that's the case can we still get compensation for him if we offer low rd tender when the time comes?

Just being curious. lol

 

Low round tender exists, and as you said, it's mostly for undrafted guys.  Others guys who had been drafted, but cut somewhere in that 3 year period before RFA would qualify as well.  The answer to your question is yes.  If a 3rd round pick is an RFA and you give him the low/original round tender, you get a 3rd round pick if someone signs him.

To the second question regarding Jensen, he's an ERFA, so no need to even worry about RFA tenders.  He was cut and re-signed to the PS in his second year, so his rookie contract was essentially ripped up.  We still hold his rights and no other team can negotiate with him unless we choose not to tender him.  The tender is the 3rd year minimum contract, and he can only sign it with us as long as we offer it.

[757RavensFan]

6 hours ago, Tenacious Faulker said:

I think a 2nd rd tender is still about $2.02M.  IMO he seems to have shown he can be reliable and was fair as a #1WR.  It might be unfair but I think I'd need to see more out of his before we commit $2M to him especially with an untested Perriman, a returning Steve Smith, and a field of other journeymen with breakout potential like Waller, Matthews, Camp and D.Brown. Ozzie & Co. would have to know that they are going to keep in Baltimore and/or that another team is willing to take a 2nd rd flier on Aiken because free agency and the draft will have occurred well before June 1st.

Kamar Aiken made $585k this last season.  I think he definitely earned a $1.415M dollar raise with almost 1000 receiving yards. 

[rmcjacket23]

10 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Kamar Aiken made $585k this last season.  I think he definitely earned a $1.415M dollar raise with almost 1000 receiving yards. 

I mean, yes and no. At his 2015 price, he was a bargain.

The question I'd have is...is there anybody that actually thinks he will match or exceed his 2015 production in 2016?

I mean let's be realistic...he's very likely to be playing behind SSS and Perriman, regardless of whether he should be or not. As such, he's a #3 WR on a team that has historically struggled to get 1000 yard seasons out of #2 receivers.

My point being...for 2016, I think he needs another injury in order to match his production again. Given that, it feels like a 4x raise is paying more for getting less. It's not that big a deal considering the price is low, but more of a philosophical observation about how we pay players. Giving out significant raises when the likelihood of diminished value is high isn't a great idea generally.

Ultimately, I think we pretty much have to 2nd round tender him due to lack of options, but I still question his long term standing with this team after 2016. I think the FO is serious enough about adding WRs that they will use a top 3 round draft pick on one, potentially as high as #6. 

I think in order for Aiken to be anything more than respectable depth in the long term, he's going to have to outplay Perriman or SSS during the season. That's possible, but I don't see it happening.

 

[Willbacker]

21 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Low round tender exists, and as you said, it's mostly for undrafted guys.  Others guys who had been drafted, but cut somewhere in that 3 year period before RFA would qualify as well.  The answer to your question is yes.  If a 3rd round pick is an RFA and you give him the low/original round tender, you get a 3rd round pick if someone signs him.

To the second question regarding Jensen, he's an ERFA, so no need to even worry about RFA tenders.  He was cut and re-signed to the PS in his second year, so his rookie contract was essentially ripped up.  We still hold his rights and no other team can negotiate with him unless we choose not to tender him.  The tender is the 3rd year minimum contract, and he can only sign it with us as long as we offer it.

Thanks for getting back. For some reason I'm not getting notifications(please mods fix this for me I don't know if I did something or not. Last notification was Feb 8).

My 1st question was answered so thanks again but where I was going with the 2nd question for Jensen was for after this year he'll become an RFA(at least I believe so) and we drafted him in the 6th rd so since we cut him once would we still get compensation with a low rd tender.

[Moderator 3]

41 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

Thanks for getting back. For some reason I'm not getting notifications(please mods fix this for me I don't know if I did something or not. Last notification was Feb 8).

Only you can fix your notifications.  Click on the little bell icon at the top, then choose Notification Settings.

[Willbacker]

2 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

Only you can fix your notifications.  Click on the little bell icon at the top, then choose Notification Settings.

Thanks. Funny I never went into that screen before so I don't know how anything could've changed so hopefully I got it set right.

[B-more Ravor]

3 hours ago, Willbacker said:

Thanks for getting back. For some reason I'm not getting notifications(please mods fix this for me I don't know if I did something or not. Last notification was Feb 8).

My 1st question was answered so thanks again but where I was going with the 2nd question for Jensen was for after this year he'll become an RFA(at least I believe so) and we drafted him in the 6th rd so since we cut him once would we still get compensation with a low rd tender.

 

Yes, the compensation of what round the player was drafted in stays with the player no matter whether he's been cut or not. 

It actually stays in place for a player drafted by another team too.  So, for instance, the Ravens released John Simon in 2014 (his second season) and Houston signed him from our PS.  He's just now completed his 3rd year and is a pending RFA.  If they give him the low round tender, the compensation is still pegged at the 4th round - the round in which he was originally drafted, even though Houston didn't draft him.

[rmw10]

3 hours ago, Willbacker said:

Thanks for getting back. For some reason I'm not getting notifications(please mods fix this for me I don't know if I did something or not. Last notification was Feb 8).

My 1st question was answered so thanks again but where I was going with the 2nd question for Jensen was for after this year he'll become an RFA(at least I believe so) and we drafted him in the 6th rd so since we cut him once would we still get compensation with a low rd tender.

Yep. If you tender him at the original round, you'll get that pick back, which is a 6th if I remember correctly. 

[jimmypowder]

To think Kamar is worth a 2nd round tender is freaking laughable. 

[rmcjacket23]

23 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

To think Kamar is worth a 2nd round tender is freaking laughable. 

Standard case of risk/reward.

[Willbacker]

3 hours ago, B-more Ravor said:

 

Yes, the compensation of what round the player was drafted in stays with the player no matter whether he's been cut or not. 

It actually stays in place for a player drafted by another team too.  So, for instance, the Ravens released John Simon in 2014 (his second season) and Houston signed him from our PS.  He's just now completed his 3rd year and is a pending RFA.  If they give him the low round tender, the compensation is still pegged at the 4th round - the round in which he was originally drafted, even though Houston didn't draft him.

 

3 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Yep. If you tender him at the original round, you'll get that pick back, which is a 6th if I remember correctly. 

Appreciate it guys.

[GrimCoconut]

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 3:03 PM, B-more Ravor said:

 

For an UDFA, the so-called "low round tender" (really, the "low" tender) only provides the Ravens with the ability to match any offer for Aiken.  The low tender gives them no compensation since Aiken was originally an UDFA. 

And, given, how tight they will likely be against the Cap - and how flush with Cap space many teams are going to be - it would be pretty easy for a another team to fashion a deal that the Ravens would not be able to match.

 

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 3:09 PM, rmw10 said:

Yeah that's the holdup for me in giving him the original round tender.  I don't think he'll command any insane amount of money, but a team with a lot of cap space that likes him could easily offer him a front loaded deal that we can't match.

The only thing is Will Hill was a RFA last year and we applied an original round tender, which meant he was a Right of First Refusal candidate and nobody came knocking. Not saying it can't happen, because Aiken never had the character concerns of Hill, but that's something we may once again risk. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[B-more Ravor]

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 11:28 AM, GrimCoconut said:

 

The only thing is Will Hill was a RFA last year and we applied an original round tender, which meant he was a Right of First Refusal candidate and nobody came knocking. Not saying it can't happen, because Aiken never had the character concerns of Hill, but that's something we may once again risk. 

 

Hill was a bit of a special case last year in that he has a lot of recent off-field baggage, so I do think that was a bit of a calculated risk. 

That said, they have often taken what many fans have felt were "risks" with lesser tenders and only once to my recollection has it cost them (Chester Taylor in 2005, who they ended up having to pay more after matching Clev's offer sheet).

Edited February 18, 2016 by B-more Ravor

[edthehead]

if I was another team (ie; browns, pats,eagles just a few) I would put in an offer for Aiken and give us a 2nd,

[Purple_City39]

3 hours ago, edthehead said:

if I was another team (ie; browns, pats,eagles just a few) I would put in an offer for Aiken and give us a 2nd,

If any of those teams, especially the Browns, were willing to give up a 2nd rounder for Aiken then the Ravens should send them a thank you letter.  

In an ideal scenario, a team with a top 15 spot takes Aiken giving Baltimore two 2nd rounders.  The Ravens then trade from 6th to the early teens, netting another 2nd rounder (3 total all within the top 15 of that round).  Baltimore then trades two of those second rounders to get back into the late teens of the first round.  End result, lose Aiken, pick twice in the teens of the first round, and still have a top half second round pick.  Jeremy Butler then takes over Aiken's position.  I'd lose my mind if this were to happen

Edited February 19, 2016 by Moderator 3
Profanity removed

[757RavensFan]

Per Jamison Hensley, 

Kamar Aiken was given a 2nd round tender.  He'll make $2.5M this year unless someone puts an offer sheet in for him. 

[GrimCoconut]

/thread

[ALPHA]

Well deserved, hopefully he continues to make the most of his opportunities

[ALPHA]

Well deserved, hopefully he continues to make the most of his opportunities