Is Kamar Aiken worth a 2nd round tender?

[Winchester]

I know, just throwing it out there since we're speculating. Certainly makes more sense than depending on Camp.

Can not count on any of them really. Aiken plays but he is limited. Campanaro and Perriman have speed and talent but miss games because of injury. It is the reason management is adding a legit receiver.

[RavensFanMania]

That is exactly my point. There is Perriman and Campanaro returning. Then Decosta and Harbs intends to add a significant receiver and that is before considering SS's role!! My opinion, for a prolific offense moving forward it needs to involve young fast athletic receivers like Perriman and Campanaro and a young stud #1 like Treadwell. Fans are so fast to jump on the bandwagon of any receiver or player that flashes. Ozzie is a like a fan himself. A 3 yr deal for Aiken?? He will not sneak up on anybody next year. And he could be the #4 receiver next year. Just because he was the most viable option at the moment doesn't necessarily mean he should definitely be part of plans. So what happens to miss right now once the prettier girls come around into the picture?? That is correct he is owed money anyways!! Every Homer just assumes every player that flashes will improve. Ever consider the may not even hit half this year's stats?? Ever heard of fluke year?? He sure wouldn't be the first!!

And to answer the question why he did not start over Aiken I dunno but I bet it could be similar to why Adams was given opportunity over Janis. Even it could be similar to why Brandon Lloyd took so long to finally receive opportunity or similar to one of the dozens of good receivers that were at one time playing behind slugs. I do know Campanaro is not only faster than Aiken but is far superior gaining separation. And once the so called anarexic prettier girls come around into the picture Campanaro will have a role as the slot but a slot with big play speed. What is miss right nows role when Perriman returns and ravens draft a Treadwell or Thomas or Boyd?? Or acquire an established young receiver.

No one is arguing that Camp gains separation better but he certainly doesn't win contested balls better than Aiken and he is a slot receiver where Aiken can play all over the field on a much more consistent basis.  Best thing is he PLAYS every game.  It doesn't matter how well you gain separation, if you can't stay healthy.

[PurpleCity5]

But they didn't really have to. All they had to do was sign him to a similar deal that we did, but just front load the contract.

I just don't think the market for Aiken league wide would be nearly as good as people think it is. I think if he were a UFA right now, he may get $2M a year at most, on a short deal with practically no guaranteed money, and I think that may even be optimistic.

I think most other teams can find a player just like him in the mid rounds of the draft easily. We cant, though, because we suck at that aspect of the draft. Thus, I think his value here is higher than elsewhere.

All it would take for a year long suspension for Hill was one more failed drug test, that's a very high price to pay. The reason why we gave him the extension is because he showed us that he was a changed guy. For another team, they won't know whether or not he changed simply because they don't know him.

 

As for Aiken's deal, I think teams will look at the film in the 2nd half of the season and come away impressed, now I'm not saying he will break the bank, but I don't think $2M is all he will get in the open market. I think he can get more than that, but if he were to get a deal which is good for him, it throw a wretch in our plans to extend K.O and others. That's probably the biggest problem for me. 

[RavensFanMania]

A long term deal meaning 2-3 years, since he obviously isn't getting anything longer than that.

 

In which case he wouldn't take over that role until year 2, so either the last year of his deal or the second to last, in which case you get him for a "bargain" price for basically one season. 

 

Which, again, brings us back to my original premise in that all of this talk about "team friendly" deals doesn't make any sense whatsoever for Aiken himself. And it requires two parties to sign such a deal...

Team friendly deals happen all the time, because they do provide upfront money to the player, but are spread over the 3 year contract, with the last year not having any guaranteed money.  It also provides a little bit of security.  Certainly more than a one year contract provides.

Edited January 22, 2016 by RavensFanMania

[jazz1988]

Can not count on any of them really. Aiken plays but he is limited. Campanaro and Perriman have speed and talent but miss games because of injury. It is the reason management is adding a legit receiver.

 

I think you more focus on a elite receiver which is cool but Aiken has proven to be dependable. He made plays as the number 3 receiver  in 2014 and when Steve Smith went down in 2015 he stepped up and made plays again. The Ravens don't  just need play makers on offense but  a receiver that's dependable  and that's what Aiken has been so far.  

Edited January 22, 2016 by jazz1988

[rmcjacket23]

Team friendly deals happen all the time, because they do provide upfront money to the player, but are spread over the 3 year contract, with the last year not having any guaranteed money.  It also provides a little bit of security.  Certainly more than a one year contract provides.

I mean, it sort of provides more security, though I still don't see why that's something Aiken is looking for.

 

He can easily bet on himself, outplay Steve Smith and take over the "chain mover" role in this offense which would yield substantial productivity, and thus net a much bigger contract in 2017. Said contract would almost certainly have more than one year of guaranteed money and could easily offer more stability both in length and in money.

 

Basically for me, there's no scenario the Ravens sign him to a contract this offseason that the Ravens can't easily get out of after year 1 with minimal salary cap impact. There's pretty much no contract structure the Ravens would agree to that doesn't end that way, because of the obvious risks involved in doing so.

 

As such, its sort of an illusion that its a "long term contract" anyway, as most many "long term" contracts like that rarely are. 

 

And lets face it... if you signed him to a "long term" contract, its not like his 2016 cap number is going to be substantially less than the 2nd round tender amount is (roughly $2.6M I believe), so its not like the salary cap impact is that beneficial to do.

 

So, in essence, the difference between a 2-3 year deal with low guarantees (the offer the Ravens would present) and a one year, second-round tender offer is practically nothing, which is why I think the tender is more beneficial for both sides.

[Winchester]

I think you more focus on a elite receiver which is cool but Aiken has proven to be dependable. He made plays as the number 3 receiver  in 2013 and when Steve Smith went down in 2014 he stepped up and made plays again. The Ravens don't  just need play makers on offense but  a receiver that's dependable  and that's what Aiken has been so far.

That is mediocrity!! Aiken made some plays but he would not be dynamic on a consistent basis when the defense is zoned on him. He will not sneak up on anybody next year and he is very limited. He fights for the ball but he is not very fluid or athletic. If the goal is the Superbowl and the best offense in the league Aiken is a #4. Perriman and whoever is acquired will be the top guys with Campanaro in the slot. Aiken is just the best option at the moment. He will not get the offense to greatness.

[jazz1988]

That is mediocrity!! Aiken made some plays but he would not be dynamic on a consistent basis when the defense is zoned on him. He will not sneak up on anybody next year and he is very limited. He fights for the ball but he is not very fluid or athletic. If the goal is the Superbowl and the best offense in the league Aiken is a #4. Perriman and whoever is acquired will be the top guys with Campanaro in the slot. Aiken is just the best option at the moment. He will not get the offense to greatness.

 

There you go again too focus on elite and greatness and missing the point. No  one has ever said the guy was  Thee savior of   The Ravens offense or was going to make it great. The guy has shown to be dependable in  the two year span he has been here  and has shown growth as a receiver.Rather he surprised players or not he got the job done when everyone else didn't.

 

I don't think none of the other young receivers could have put up the same type of production or been dependable as Aiken. . He's solid a  number 3 receiver and he may be limited or not explosive to your standards but neither is Jason Avant  and he's been a  solid number 3 receiver for years. That's what you want from your number 3 receiver  to be dependable  and able to get the job done when needed.

[RavensFanMania]

That is mediocrity!! Aiken made some plays but he would not be dynamic on a consistent basis when the defense is zoned on him. He will not sneak up on anybody next year and he is very limited. He fights for the ball but he is not very fluid or athletic. If the goal is the Superbowl and the best offense in the league Aiken is a #4. Perriman and whoever is acquired will be the top guys with Campanaro in the slot. Aiken is just the best option at the moment. He will not get the offense to greatness.

You're talking about dynamic on a consistent basis, while Camp is dynamic on the IR.  He needs to get on the field before he can by dynamic.  I have no confidence that will ever happen.

[nyc9192]

That is exactly my point. There is Perriman and Campanaro returning. Then Decosta and Harbs intends to add a significant receiver and that is before considering SS's role!! My opinion, for a prolific offense moving forward it needs to involve young fast athletic receivers like Perriman and Campanaro and a young stud #1 like Treadwell. Fans are so fast to jump on the bandwagon of any receiver or player that flashes. Ozzie is a like a fan himself. A 3 yr deal for Aiken?? He will not sneak up on anybody next year. And he could be the #4 receiver next year. Just because he was the most viable option at the moment doesn't necessarily mean he should definitely be part of plans. So what happens to miss right now once the prettier girls come around into the picture?? That is correct he is owed money anyways!! Every Homer just assumes every player that flashes will improve. Ever consider the may not even hit half this year's stats?? Ever heard of fluke year?? He sure wouldn't be the first!!

And to answer the question why he did not start over Aiken I dunno but I bet it could be similar to why Adams was given opportunity over Janis. Even it could be similar to why Brandon Lloyd took so long to finally receive opportunity or similar to one of the dozens of good receivers that were at one time playing behind slugs. I do know Campanaro is not only faster than Aiken but is far superior gaining separation. And once the so called anarexic prettier girls come around into the picture Campanaro will have a role as the slot but a slot with big play speed. What is miss right nows role when Perriman returns and ravens draft a Treadwell or Thomas or Boyd?? Or acquire an established young receiver.

I agree with everything you said but truth be told I'm not that high on Camp.Never really thought he was anything special beside a returner or a last receiver in a bench rotation type guy,though I do see what your saying and hope that your right.

Edited January 23, 2016 by nyc9192

[757RavensFan]

That is mediocrity!! Aiken made some plays but he would not be dynamic on a consistent basis when the defense is zoned on him. He will not sneak up on anybody next year and he is very limited. He fights for the ball but he is not very fluid or athletic. If the goal is the Superbowl and the best offense in the league Aiken is a #4. Perriman and whoever is acquired will be the top guys with Campanaro in the slot. Aiken is just the best option at the moment. He will not get the offense to greatness.

 

Why do you always put Aiken at the #4 WR behind Campanaro?  What makes you think Camp will be the starting slot receiver?

[Maryland]

If we used a late-round tender on Aiken, I doubt any team would offer Aiken a deal that we couldn't match. I mean, in theory another team could front-load the first year with a lot of base salary that would serve as a sort of poison-pill contract for us to match, but that seems unlikely. 

 

It's probably just worth the extra 1 mil to give him a 2nd round tender and ensure he's around next year, since no one in their right mind would sacrifice a 2nd round pick for Aiken. He seems like a good 3rd option as a possession receiver, someone who is makes tough catches, but fails to get separation at times. I would compare him to Harry Douglass simply from a value standpoint (Douglass even put up similar stats to Aiken when he was ATL's de facto #1 a couple years ago). 

 

I hope they draft a WR high in 2016 (like maybe Treadwell or any of the 2nd round WRs). With this drafted WR, Perriman, and a re-signed Aiken, our post-2016 receiving corps would be pretty decent (I'm planning for life after SSS leaves). That would be a decent receiving corps with Aiken as our #3. 

[The Raven]

That is mediocrity!! Aiken made some plays but he would not be dynamic on a consistent basis when the defense is zoned on him. He will not sneak up on anybody next year and he is very limited. He fights for the ball but he is not very fluid or athletic. If the goal is the Superbowl and the best offense in the league Aiken is a #4. Perriman and whoever is acquired will be the top guys with Campanaro in the slot. Aiken is just the best option at the moment. He will not get the offense to greatness.

 

Really? Is that why he had the most consecutive 5 catch games in franchise history? Because defenses weren't zoned in on him? You're telling me that defenses weren't paying enough attention to the only thing resembling talent on our offense? Lmao, okay.

[PurpleCity5]

Why do you always put Aiken at the #4 WR behind Campanaro?  What makes you think Camp will be the starting slot receiver?

I don't see Aiken being our slot unless Steve Smith or Perriman bumped to our No.4 and Aiken is our starter. That's the most realistic thought I could come up with and that sounds silly. 

[PurpleCity5]

Really? Is that why he had the most consecutive 5 catch games in franchise history? Because defenses weren't zoned in on him? You're telling me that defenses weren't paying enough attention to the only thing resembling talent on our offense? Lmao, okay.

Even if defenses zone to stop him next season that's fine with me, I'll let Steve and Breshad go to work. 

[Cillmatic]

There's so much delusion involving WR's this offseason here, lol

[deacfan]

Ok thanks for still not answering why a healthy Camp wasn't a starter the 1st game of the season and Aiken was.

 

Take note of the time and score of this game when he made this play. I think it safe to say that he was about to jump Aiken..Im sure the team is going to give him a chance to stay healthy this season otherwise he would have been injury settled. As fans we should do the same and hope he can do this every week!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etUrOJ1X9Cg&feature=youtu.be

[RavensFanMania]

Why do you always put Aiken at the #4 WR behind Campanaro?  What makes you think Camp will be the starting slot receiver?

Agree.  Aiken is no worse than a #3 and in a pinch can start and he's proven it.   He may have been force fed the ball this season, but he did so with four different QBs and no one taking coverages away from him. 

[GrimCoconut]

True, but that's not team friendly when you consider that Aiken can easily revert back to a #3 WR next season and possibly further. #3 WRs rarely produce significantly in a Ravens offense that uses TEs and runs the ball.

So guaranteeing any money after year 1 is not very team friendly, especially when some significant regression could easily occur.

That's why the tender or a one year contract makes a lot more sense for both parties.

I agree with you. I think a one-year deal or a RoFR tender make the most sense. I just wonder if we'll want to play it safe. It's interesting to me either way. I think Aiken is in a tough spot because the Ravens will almost certainly add more WRs to the team. That could very well limit his catches & receptions, which reduces his chances to play because we will certainly want to play our 1st round pick from last year who did nothing but heal, and Steve Smith Sr is going to play. He's probably got his best chance to cash-in hoping he gets a chance to put up some numbers in a rotational role with Smith Sr likely not playing a ton of snaps coming off an injury. That's probably the best chance he has at a bigger deal later. 

[RavensFanMania]

If we can't lock him in in a two year deal that is similar to the 2nd round tender than I'd be for a 2nd round tender.  I like Aiken and think he only improves,even if he does have less catches next season. 

[reed20]

A WR that didn't top 1000yarder and receiver corp with no other option @field?

Nah...not worth a 2nd rd tender. He is worth something though.

He went up against top corners and did well, though. He caught 12 passes against a KC defense that includes Peters and Sean Smith. And Clausen was throwing him the ball.

Edited January 23, 2016 by reed20

[-Truth-]

With regards to the nature of the thread, I'd wager most fans would agree that Kamar Aiken played well enough to at least be deserving of a roster spot in 2016. It would cost a minimum of $1.3 million to retain him considering that he's an RFA. That being said, this seemingly leaves us with three options. We either allow Aiken to walk without amassing any compensation. We could offer Aiken an original round tender; this would ultimately induce a significant probability of being outbid by any figure above $2 million, because by choosing to forgo a second round tender, we'd be conceding that he wasn't worth the aforementioned figure to the organization. A departure in this instance would come without any compensation. That leads us to option three, which would involve offering a second round tender, a raise of a mere $700,000 over the minimum it would cost for Aiken to stick around, which would insure that we're well compensated should another team wish to sign him away. I admittedly haven't read the other posts in the thread, but I hope they weren't all discussing this scenario. I personally see this as an easy decision.

[thieverycorporation]

On January 23, 2016 at 5:04 PM, -Truth- said:

With regards to the nature of the thread, I'd wager most fans would agree that Kamar Aiken played well enough to at least be deserving of a roster spot in 2016. It would cost a minimum of $1.3 million to retain him considering that he's an RFA. That being said, this seemingly leaves us with three options. We either allow Aiken to walk without amassing any compensation. We could offer Aiken an original round tender; this would ultimately induce a significant probability of being outbid by any figure above $2 million, because by choosing to forgo a second round tender, we'd be conceding that he wasn't worth the aforementioned figure to the organization. A departure in this instance would come without any compensation. That leads us to option three, which would involve offering a second round tender, a raise of a mere $700,000 over the minimum it would cost for Aiken to stick around, which would insure that we're well compensated should another team wish to sign him away. I admittedly haven't read the other posts in the thread, but I hope they weren't all discussing this scenario. I personally see this as an easy decision.

Second round tender is the only way to go. Win Win period. Why give him away?

[Tenacious Faulker]

There seems to be an overvaluing of Aiken here.  The Ravens don't tend to value their RFA's that high.  We've lost them before because (imo) Ozzie gets another draft pick to replace the player.  Often times is a few rounds higher than they're worth.  

I think that he gets a 3rd at the highest.  If a team ends up paying the $1.3M and the Ravens don't match the offer they turn a UDFA into a 3rd rd pick.  It wouldn't surprise me if he was tagged as a 4th rd pick to entice more bidders.  It really depends on how the coaches value him moving ahead.  If they really want to keep him they'll still tender him low and match the offer.

[BmoreBird22]

5 hours ago, Tenacious Faulker said:

There seems to be an overvaluing of Aiken here.  The Ravens don't tend to value their RFA's that high.  We've lost them before because (imo) Ozzie gets another draft pick to replace the player.  Often times is a few rounds higher than they're worth.  

I think that he gets a 3rd at the highest.  If a team ends up paying the $1.3M and the Ravens don't match the offer they turn a UDFA into a 3rd rd pick.  It wouldn't surprise me if he was tagged as a 4th rd pick to entice more bidders.  It really depends on how the coaches value him moving ahead.  If they really want to keep him they'll still tender him low and match the offer.

Too bad these don't exist...

[757RavensFan]

7 hours ago, Tenacious Faulker said:

There seems to be an overvaluing of Aiken here.  The Ravens don't tend to value their RFA's that high.  We've lost them before because (imo) Ozzie gets another draft pick to replace the player.  Often times is a few rounds higher than they're worth.  

I think that he gets a 3rd at the highest.  If a team ends up paying the $1.3M and the Ravens don't match the offer they turn a UDFA into a 3rd rd pick.  It wouldn't surprise me if he was tagged as a 4th rd pick to entice more bidders.  It really depends on how the coaches value him moving ahead.  If they really want to keep him they'll still tender him low and match the offer.

 

Like BmoreBird22 said, that's impossible.  There's only 3 types of tenders; 1st round, 2nd round and low round tender.  Since Kamar wasn't drafted, we wouldn't get a draft pick if Oz puts a "low round" tender on him.  If a low round tender is put on Kamar and an offers sheet is put in by another team, the Ravens would have the first right of refusal and could offer the same or a better deal to keep Aiken.  If Aiken takes the offer from the other team, we get nothing.   

[RavensFanMania]

I'd rather give him a 2nd round tender than a low round tender.  We have seen that Aiken can step into the starters role when needed.  He's a much better fit as a number three, but we can count on him as he has been healthy since he's been here.  That's more than you can say about most of our receivers.

[PurpleCorsair]

On 1/23/2016 at 10:15 PM, Winchester said:

That is mediocrity!! Aiken made some plays but he would not be dynamic on a consistent basis when the defense is zoned on him. He will not sneak up on anybody next year and he is very limited. He fights for the ball but he is not very fluid or athletic. If the goal is the Superbowl and the best offense in the league Aiken is a #4. Perriman and whoever is acquired will be the top guys with Campanaro in the slot. Aiken is just the best option at the moment. He will not get the offense to greatness.

Aiken was the No.1 Reciever for half the year when teams were scheming for him.
Aiken, not Derrick Mason, not Anquan Boldin,  not Torrey Smith, set the franchise records for consecutive games with 5 catches.

Is he flashy? not really, but Aiken is the model of consistency.

[ArsenalRaven666]

I would rather give Aiken a second round tender then risk losing him for nothing if he signs for another team. 

Although not spectacular he is consistant performer this past year and was regarded the no.1 reciever for half the season.

 

My only question would be that should he receive a second round tender and someone came in to signed him would the 2nd round pick be for this year draft or for next !?

[RavensFanMania]

9 minutes ago, ArsenalRaven666 said:

I would rather give Aiken a second round tender then risk losing him for nothing if he signs for another team. 

Although not spectacular he is consistant performer this past year and was regarded the no.1 reciever for half the season.

 

My only question would be that should he receive a second round tender and someone came in to signed him would the 2nd round pick be for this year draft or for next !?

this year