Is Kamar Aiken worth a 2nd round tender?

[rmw10]

Before Campanaro was

You still didn't answer the question, why wasn't a healthy Camp ahead of Aiken this season when the season started.  Aiken was a day 1 starter and Camp had to compete for playing time w/ the guys on the next

Before Campanaro was injured he was clearly faster and got more separation than Aiken. You need to decide who is better moving forward. Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey were not the most productive by far. But Shanahan cut round one draft picks including a pro bowler to play Rod and Ed McCaffrey because of superior skills displayed. If players on your own team that were injured shows superior skills to your most productive then you can damn well know every team has more talented receivers. So you are not winning anything with Aiken as a primary receiver. So what is the point?? It is actually quite often the most productive receiver on the team is not nearly the best. Chad Johnson and our own SS were outproduced at junior college. By players that never made the NFL. You have to get the guys playing that can be difference makers. Find out what nfl dbacks say about covering Campanaro. Google it. As a matter of fact google it. I am pretty sure something will come up. Just saying Aiken may be #4 receiver next year.

 

Doesn't Campanaro, ya know, kinda need to stay healthy first?  I'm not quite sure how he's shown he's a superior player considering he can hardly stay on the field.

[GrimCoconut]

Before Campanaro was

You still didn't answer the question, why wasn't a healthy Camp ahead of Aiken this season when the season started.  Aiken was a day 1 starter and Camp had to compete for playing time w/ the guys on the next

Before Campanaro was injured he was clearly faster and got more separation than Aiken. You need to decide who is better moving forward. Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey were not the most productive by far. But Shanahan cut round one draft picks including a pro bowler to play Rod and Ed McCaffrey because of superior skills displayed. If players on your own team that were injured shows superior skills to your most productive then you can damn well know every team has more talented receivers. So you are not winning anything with Aiken as a primary receiver. So what is the point?? It is actually quite often the most productive receiver on the team is not nearly the best. Chad Johnson and our own SS were outproduced at junior college. By players that never made the NFL. You have to get the guys playing that can be difference makers. Find out what nfl dbacks say about covering Campanaro. Google it. As a matter of fact google it. I am pretty sure something will come up. Just saying Aiken may be #4 receiver next year.

I'm not sure about Campanaro and everything you've stated in terms of your point, but you are right in that Campanaro did get separation much easier than Aiken, although Aiken seemed to eventually get more productive & effective. He's certainly faster than Aiken.

 

That said, Campanaro has injury concerns dating back to, I believe, high school. I really like him but I don't have a ton of hope for him remaining injury-free.

Edited January 22, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[BSHU_Miami]

Let's not go that far. Nobody will try and claim him for a second rounder. Why spend the extra million when you don't have to? Aiken is not that hot of a free agent

if someone wants him for a second bye bye Aiken

[757RavensFan]

Before Campanaro was injured he was clearly faster and got more separation than Aiken. You need to decide who is better moving forward. Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey were not the most productive by far. But Shanahan cut round one draft picks including a pro bowler to play Rod and Ed McCaffrey because of superior skills displayed. If players on your own team that were injured shows superior skills to your most productive then you can damn well know every team has more talented receivers. So you are not winning anything with Aiken as a primary receiver. So what is the point?? It is actually quite often the most productive receiver on the team is not nearly the best. Chad Johnson and our own SS were outproduced at junior college. By players that never made the NFL. You have to get the guys playing that can be difference makers. Find out what nfl dbacks say about covering Campanaro. Google it. As a matter of fact google it. I am pretty sure something will come up. Just saying Aiken may be #4 receiver next year.

Ok thanks for still not answering why a healthy Camp wasn't a starter the 1st game of the season and Aiken was.

Edited January 22, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[chunkywill25]

Don't get me wrong, I love aiken, but they didn't even put a second round tender on will hill and I think he was definitely wrth it. Hopefully we can sign him to a good deal for both sides

[January J]

He is absolutely worth a second round tender..and he is only going to get better as long as we keep feeding him and he doesn't fall on the depth chart to guys who have high potential but have done nothing.

[PurpleCity5]

Don't get me wrong, I love aiken, but they didn't even put a second round tender on will hill and I think he was definitely wrth it. Hopefully we can sign him to a good deal for both sides

No one was going to commit to Will Hill long term with his failed drug test history, he just came off a 6-game suspension also. Aiken on the other hand didn't have that same problem. Theres nothing about Aiken that will scare teams away.

[RavensFanMania]

You still didn't answer the question, why wasn't a healthy Camp ahead of Aiken this season when the season started.  Aiken was a day 1 starter and Camp had to compete for playing time w/ the guys on the bench. 

It's an obviously flawed opinion

[RavensFanMania]

Why?? One more guaranteed contract to a player that flashed for a year??What is one more contract owed out right. And everybody is so surprised there is no money to retain impact pro bowlers in his prime. There is no guarantee Aiken will exceed or even match his performance. Not every player matches a good year. Not to mention lets focus on a true #1 playmaker and his partner before throwing contracts to a #4 or 3 receiver. Like I said what happens to miss right now when the more dynamic prettier girls come around and enter the picture?? The ravens will draft a receiver in first2 rounds or trade a round2 for young established playmaker. Then Perriman Campanaro and SS will return. My opinion Tread Perriman and Campanaro will be complimenting targets. Treads will be the vaccum over the middle and sidelines,Perriman the big play guy that can win at the intermediate level as well. And Campanaro the chains mover that can win at intermediate level as well as respectable big play speed and athleticism. Peeps tend to forget Campanaro owns a 40 inch vertical!! Not to mention Treads big play skills must be respected because he is like a Hoover vaccum 40 yards away as well. And Joe Cool has the arm to put it where he can go get it. And I hear Maxx is really already looking better and faster than he did at minicamp!! Only question is can Buck step his game up and run a little tougher with vision. If ravens retain KO the OLine will blast the holes for him while the defense is spread out containing the receivers TEs and Buck. And that is before SS role is considered much less Aiken

As I said, sign him to a team friendly deal.  Giving him a 2nd round tender ties up about 2.5 million in this years cap.  You can't think short term.  Too many short term deals kill the cap in in the long, because you end up paying the player after the 1 year contract for more money than  you would have in the first place.  Kamar Aiken was the only receiver we had that started and finished the season.  He's a solid #3 receiver that can step in and start when your starters go down.  That's valuable to any team and he deserves atleast a 2nd round tender or he won't be on this team next year.   He may have been forced the ball, but what he did when there was no other receiver of note on the field was invaluable.  Give him a three year team friendly deal.

Edited January 22, 2016 by RavensFanMania

[rmcjacket23]

No one was going to commit to Will Hill long term with his failed drug test history, he just came off a 6-game suspension also. Aiken on the other hand didn't have that same problem. Theres nothing about Aiken that will scare teams away.

But they didn't really have to. All they had to do was sign him to a similar deal that we did, but just front load the contract.

I just don't think the market for Aiken league wide would be nearly as good as people think it is. I think if he were a UFA right now, he may get $2M a year at most, on a short deal with practically no guaranteed money, and I think that may even be optimistic.

I think most other teams can find a player just like him in the mid rounds of the draft easily. We cant, though, because we suck at that aspect of the draft. Thus, I think his value here is higher than elsewhere.

[rmcjacket23]

As I said, sign him to a team friendly deal.  Giving him a 2nd round tender ties up about 2.5 million in this years cap.  You can't think short term.  Too many short term deals kill the cap in in the long, because you end up paying the player after the 1 year contract for more money than  you would have in the first place.  Kamar Aiken was the only receiver we had that started and finished the season.  He's a solid #3 receiver that can step in and start when your starters go down.  That's valuable to any team.   He may have been forced the ball, but what he did when there was no other receiver of note on the field was invaluable.  Give him a three year team friendly deal.

Team friendly deal, obviously, implies low money and low guarantees.

So why would Kamar agree to that? Not exactly maximizing his value is it?

[RavensFanMania]

Campanaro is faster and more explosive than Aiken. And has better separation skill. Aiken was this year's version of Marlon when he was forced the ball. Aiken played all 16 games and was productive this year. Doesn't necessarily mean he is better than everybody he outproduced this year!! There are receivers around the league this year not eclipsing 500 yards but has the skill and will approach 1500 yards.

Camp is a slot guy when healthy, he is not more valuable than Aiken, especially now.  If Aiken was the receiver that went down and Camp was the only healthy receiver, he would not have put up the numbers that Aiken had down the stretch. Actually, not many receivers would have.  PFF agrees and I believe he finished in the top 20 in receivers per PFF.

[RavensFanMania]

Team friendly deal, obviously, implies low money and low guarantees.

So why would Kamar agree to that? Not exactly maximizing his value is it?

You'll still get the guaranteed money in the contract over a few years.  The Skins signed DJax to a team friendly deal that gave him an out clause in year 3 with not much dead money if they were to cut him this year and no dead money if they cut him after 2017.  Obviously his contract was higher but the guaranteed money was basically done after the 2nd year of the contract.  Not all team friendly deals, have low guaranteed money. 

[RavensFanMania]

Don't get me wrong, I love aiken, but they didn't even put a second round tender on will hill and I think he was definitely wrth it. Hopefully we can sign him to a good deal for both sides

He received a two year team friendly deal

[rmcjacket23]

You'll still get the guaranteed money in the contract over a few years.  The Skins signed DJax to a team friendly deal that gave him an out clause in year 3 with not much dead money if they were to cut him this year and no dead money if they cut him after 2017.  Obviously his contract was higher but the guaranteed money was basically done after the 2nd year of the contract.  Not all team friendly deals, have low guaranteed money.

True, but that's not team friendly when you consider that Aiken can easily revert back to a #3 WR next season and possibly further. #3 WRs rarely produce significantly in a Ravens offense that uses TEs and runs the ball.

So guaranteeing any money after year 1 is not very team friendly, especially when some significant regression could easily occur.

That's why the tender or a one year contract makes a lot more sense for both parties.

[RavensFanMania]

True, but that's not team friendly when you consider that Aiken can easily revert back to a #3 WR next season and possibly further. #3 WRs rarely produce significantly in a Ravens offense that uses TEs and runs the ball.

So guaranteeing any money after year 1 is not very team friendly, especially when some significant regression could easily occur.

That's why the tender or a one year contract makes a lot more sense for both parties.

You lay out a contract that has guaranteed money and bonus money payable in year two at the start of the league year.  The team can either cut him then or pay it and spread it over the remaining two years to limit monies against the cap.  I understand where you are coming from, but feel this would be better for the team in the long run.  This all depends on what happens during fa as well. 

[rmcjacket23]

You lay out a contract that has guaranteed money and bonus money payable in year two at the start of the league year.  The team can either cut him then or pay it and spread it over the remaining two years to limit monies against the cap.  I understand where you are coming from, but feel this would be better for the team in the long run.  This all depends on what happens during fa as well. 

But that's my point... of course its better for the team. Who its NOT better for, however, is Kamar Aiken. If I were him, I'd simply say "no thank you" to that deal, and the deal is dead right then.

 

What I think is better for the team in the long run is to tender him or sign him to a one year deal, and make him prove that he can outplay guys like Steve Smith or Perriman and earn significant playing time with those guys around.

[balfan23]

Yeah - he is definitely a borderline case. Does his value match the $2M the tender will cost? I think, to us, the answer is yes. He's has built at least some level of chemistry with the team and our offense and he showed improvement late in the season.

 

True, he could slide back to #4 if we pick up another receiver, either via draft or getting some mid-level FA. But with Perriman being a 24-font question mark and SSS coming off serious injury at 36 ... it doesn't take a vivid imagination to see him being called on to be our #3 or even #2. 

 

In the end, as thin as we are at WR, I think we'll do what it takes to retain him and will also sign him to a short term deal that will lower that $2M hit. 

[Ravenseconbeast]

Campanaro is under contract and has the talent to be an impact player. I would bring Aiken back at round2 as long as the cost for signing him is not KO. Just remember the ravens will draft a receiver in first 2 rounds. Perriman will return,Campanaro will be return and SS will be back. So if Campanaro, Perriman,SS and a top rookie all play,where will that leave miss right now once the prettier more dynamic girls come around into the picture.

Camp is either on the chopping block or he'll (barely) squeeze in next year. Nothing indicates he got healthier, or figure a way to stay on the field whole season.

Aiken is guaranteed to be on a team. Whether that be us or someone else.

But is he worth 2nd rd tender? Not sure. I highly doubt anyone will ever offer a 2nd rd.

Both arent exactly 'primier starters'. So its not going to put a major dent if we happen to lose them. But right now I'd choose Aiken in a heartbeat.

[rmcjacket23]

Camp is either on the chopping block or he'll (barely) squeeze in next year. Nothing indicates he got healthier, or figure a way to stay on the field whole season.

Aiken is guaranteed to be on a team. Whether that be us or someone else.

But is he worth 2nd rd tender? Not sure. I highly doubt anyone will ever offer a 2nd rd.

Both arent exactly 'primier starters'. So its not going to put a major dent if we happen to lose them. But right now I'd choose Aiken in a heartbeat.

If Camp stays healthy through camp/preseason, he probably makes the team as a kick returner alone would be my guess, short of us drafting somebody or adding some sort of ST specialist in FA, which I don't expect to happen.

 

If he gets injured and misses significant time, he's got no shot of making the team basically in my opinion.

 

As for Aiken, I generally agree. I think a lot of fans here are vastly overvaluing him, as I don't think he's nearly as valuable to most of the other teams in this league as he would be to us. I think teams that don't have the issues we do with drafting/developing receivers can get an Aiken-like player in the mid-to-late rounds of drafts annually, so I doubt they'd be forking over a 2nd round pick and a significant contract for him.

Edited January 22, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[rmw10]

If Camp stays healthy through camp/preseason, he probably makes the team as a kick returner alone would be my guess, short of us drafting somebody or adding some sort of ST specialist in FA, which I don't expect to happen.

If he gets injured and misses significant time, he's got no shot of making the team basically in my opinion.

As for Aiken, I generally agree. I think a lot of fans here are vastly overvaluing him, as I don't think he's nearly as valuable to most of the other teams in this league as he would be to us. I think teams that don't have the issues we do with drafting/developing receivers can get an Aiken-like player in the mid-to-late rounds of drafts annually, so I doubt they'd be forking over a 2nd round pick and a significant contract for him.

I think the bigger risk with Aiken comes if it's an original round tender. I don't think he'll command much, but a team could front load a contract offer and really put us in a pickle. Chances are it won't happen even on the original round, but I'm still not sure if it's a risk worth taking.

[rmcjacket23]

I think the bigger risk with Aiken comes if it's an original round tender. I don't think he'll command much, but a team could front load a contract offer and really put us in a pickle. Chances are it won't happen even on the original round, but I'm still not sure if it's a risk worth taking.

Correct. He's not going anywhere under the 2nd round tender. 

 

I think the original round tender is risky, but at the same time, it still means a team is going to be willing to pay him probably $2-3M this season to play for them, and I honestly don't think there's many, if any, teams that are willing to do that. 

[Winchester]

Ok thanks for still not answering why a healthy Camp wasn't a starter the 1st game of the season and Aiken was.

True, but that's not team friendly when you consider that Aiken can easily revert back to a #3 WR next season and possibly further. #3 WRs rarely produce significantly in a Ravens offense that uses TEs and runs the ball.

So guaranteeing any money after year 1 is not very team friendly, especially when some significant regression could easily occur.

That's why the tender or a one year contract makes a lot more sense for both parties.

That is exactly my point. There is Perriman and Campanaro returning. Then Decosta and Harbs intends to add a significant receiver and that is before considering SS's role!! My opinion, for a prolific offense moving forward it needs to involve young fast athletic receivers like Perriman and Campanaro and a young stud #1 like Treadwell. Fans are so fast to jump on the bandwagon of any receiver or player that flashes. Ozzie is a like a fan himself. A 3 yr deal for Aiken?? He will not sneak up on anybody next year. And he could be the #4 receiver next year. Just because he was the most viable option at the moment doesn't necessarily mean he should definitely be part of plans. So what happens to miss right now once the prettier girls come around into the picture?? That is correct he is owed money anyways!! Every Homer just assumes every player that flashes will improve. Ever consider the may not even hit half this year's stats?? Ever heard of fluke year?? He sure wouldn't be the first!!

And to answer the question why he did not start over Aiken I dunno but I bet it could be similar to why Adams was given opportunity over Janis. Even it could be similar to why Brandon Lloyd took so long to finally receive opportunity or similar to one of the dozens of good receivers that were at one time playing behind slugs. I do know Campanaro is not only faster than Aiken but is far superior gaining separation. And once the so called anarexic prettier girls come around into the picture Campanaro will have a role as the slot but a slot with big play speed. What is miss right nows role when Perriman returns and ravens draft a Treadwell or Thomas or Boyd?? Or acquire an established young receiver.

[MTRavensFan]

True, but that's not team friendly when you consider that Aiken can easily revert back to a #3 WR next season and possibly further. #3 WRs rarely produce significantly in a Ravens offense that uses TEs and runs the ball.

So guaranteeing any money after year 1 is not very team friendly, especially when some significant regression could easily occur.

That's why the tender or a one year contract makes a lot more sense for both parties.

A just as likely scenario is Aiken continues to improve, and becomes our #2 behind Perriman when Sr. retires in 2017, making a long-term deal very team friendly.

[rmcjacket23]

That is exactly my point. There is Perriman and Campanaro returning. Then Decosta and Harbs intends to add a significant receiver and that is before considering SS's role!! My opinion, for a prolific offense moving forward it needs to involve young fast athletic receivers like Perriman and Campanaro and a young stud #1 like Treadwell. Fans are so fast to jump on the bandwagon of any receiver or player that flashes. Ozzie is a like a fan himself. A 3 yr deal for Aiken?? He will not sneak up on anybody next year. And he could be the #4 receiver next year. Just because he was the most viable option at the moment doesn't necessarily mean he should definitely be part of plans. So what happens to miss right now once the prettier girls come around into the picture?? That is correct he is owed money anyways!! Every Homer just assumes every player that flashes will improve. Ever consider the may not even hit half this year's stats?? Ever heard of fluke year?? He sure wouldn't be the first!!

And to answer the question why he did not start over Aiken I dunno but I bet it could be similar to why Adams was given opportunity over Janis. Even it could be similar to why Brandon Lloyd took so long to finally receive opportunity or similar to one of the dozens of good receivers that were at one time playing behind slugs. I do know Campanaro is not only faster than Aiken but is far superior gaining separation. And once the so called anarexic prettier girls come around into the picture Campanaro will have a role as the slot but a slot with big play speed. What is miss right nows role when Perriman returns and ravens draft a Treadwell or Thomas or Boyd?? Or acquire an established young receiver.

I mean thats great and all, but Campanaro is actually less reliable to this team than Eugene Monroe right now. 

 

Until proven otherwise, that's how I'm operating. Its one thing to have one injury like Perriman, but when you have multiple different injuries, you certainly can't expect him realistically to become a key part of the offense. As a kick returner sure, but at this point, its a total coin flip as to whether Camp is even on this team come September.

 

I'm certainly not relying on him for anything this year.

[rmcjacket23]

A just as likely scenario is Aiken continues to improve, and becomes our #2 behind Perriman when Sr. retires in 2017, making a long-term deal very team friendly.

A long term deal meaning 2-3 years, since he obviously isn't getting anything longer than that.

 

In which case he wouldn't take over that role until year 2, so either the last year of his deal or the second to last, in which case you get him for a "bargain" price for basically one season. 

 

Which, again, brings us back to my original premise in that all of this talk about "team friendly" deals doesn't make any sense whatsoever for Aiken himself. And it requires two parties to sign such a deal...

[rmw10]

Correct. He's not going anywhere under the 2nd round tender.

I think the original round tender is risky, but at the same time, it still means a team is going to be willing to pay him probably $2-3M this season to play for them, and I honestly don't think there's many, if any, teams that are willing to do that.

It depends. With that cap floor in effect, some teams are going to have to spend. If there's a team out there that likes him, it's not too terribly difficult to craft of something that we'd struggle to match. I don't think it's likely regardless, but it is a possibility at least. I know the RFA market is usually pretty lame.

[Winchester]

A just as likely scenario is Aiken continues to improve, and becomes our #2 behind Perriman when Sr. retires in 2017, making a long-term deal very team friendly.

Perriman who has never played in the NFL and the very limited Aiken as planned the top receivers is not very exciting as to where the ravens offense will be.

[MTRavensFan]

Perriman who has never played in the NFL and the very limited Aiken as planned the top receivers is not very exciting as to where the ravens offense will be.

I know, just throwing it out there since we're speculating. Certainly makes more sense than depending on Camp.

[RavensFanMania]

But that's my point... of course its better for the team. Who its NOT better for, however, is Kamar Aiken. If I were him, I'd simply say "no thank you" to that deal, and the deal is dead right then.

 

What I think is better for the team in the long run is to tender him or sign him to a one year deal, and make him prove that he can outplay guys like Steve Smith or Perriman and earn significant playing time with those guys around.

It is better for him, because it gives him multiple years with the team and no players likes a one year contract.  It's risky because if he has an injury he will have difficulty getting signed.  If he has a couple of years of guarantees even low guarantees its better for him than just getting paid 2.5 million for one season. 

 

It also allows him to stay with the team and continue building chemistry AND a shot to win the starting job next season.  Not saying he does or doesn't win that job. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by RavensFanMania