Combine Numbers that would make you change draft value?

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, ngatainmyhouse said:

That has nothing to do with my point. I am saying he was drafted in the 1st round strictly because of his combine performance. Many didn't even have him ranked as a top 10 CB

I'm not sure that's true. I recall the projections as well, and he wasn't viewed as a first round pick until his combine; however, I think the combine opened people's eyes to what he can do. That's all I think it really does. It confirms established opinions or makes you go back and look at what you missed. It's possible teams had him high for some time. 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, ngatainmyhouse said:

That has nothing to do with my point. I am saying he was drafted in the 1st round strictly because of his combine performance. Many didn't even have him ranked as a top 10 CB

But a guy who was widely graded as a 2nd or 3rd. Rounder(mostly due to lack of exposure playing at uconn) got some exposure and got his rightful grade of a first rounder and Dallas got a good player. If not for the combine he would have been passed on

[ngatainmyhouse]

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

But a guy who was widely graded as a 2nd or 3rd. Rounder(mostly due to lack of exposure playing at uconn) got some exposure and got his rightful grade of a first rounder and Dallas got a good player. If not for the combine he would have been passed on

The argument was that the combine only helps players that are equal at their position. I am saying, without the combine, that there is zero chance that Byron Jones is selected in the 1st round. Year after year players help or hinder their draft stock due to their performance in the combine

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, ngatainmyhouse said:

The argument was that the combine only helps players that are equal at their position. I am saying, without the combine, that there is zero chance that Byron Jones is selected in the 1st round. Year after year players help or hinder their draft stock due to their performance in the combine

How do you know that though?  Remember that teams have way more resources than we and even the draft experts have.  For the most part, it's the outsiders playing catch up to a player's true value.  He could have been rated as a 1st rounder on a team's board long before the combine hit.

[JoeyFlex5]

8 minutes ago, ngatainmyhouse said:

The argument was that the combine only helps players that are equal at their position. I am saying, without the combine, that there is zero chance that Byron Jones is selected in the 1st round. Year after year players help or hinder their draft stock due to their performance in the combine

actually the ORIGINAL argument was that game tape is the only factor in drafting, you just now threw that argument in there, unless i missed it after searching for it repeatedly... 

 

and no, byron jones had buzz long before the combine, he had some very impressive film that showed a versatile and athletic DB who could execute any assignment given to him, and it also showed a good mental grasp of the game. just because he didnt have the media exposure doesnt mean he was an unknown. GMs knew who he was and they had done their homework, all the combine did was make his ceiling appear a little bit higher. he may not have been a first rounder without the combine but his tape alone was enough to get him picked in the 2nd round

[Willbacker]

If Jalen Ramsey would have run a 5.0 40 flat and won the local pie eating contest I would be alarmed.

[52520Andrew]

Ah the combine arguement. I know it is going to sound like a bit of a cop out on my part but I don't like guys who only show good tape or only put up good numbers at the combine. I have to be sold that what that player can do will translate to the next level. 

I will forgive bad combines if there is good tape against good competition. I can forgive bad tape if he has good combine numbers and I am sold the player has a good head on their shoulders and may be raw but are coachable in the right situation.

[January J]

On February 7, 2016 at 2:08 AM, JoeyFlex5 said:

 

 

What would Mackenzie Alexander have to do at the combine to lock himself in as a top 10 pick and could he do anything to make us consider him at 6? 

 

What 40 time would Shaq Lawson have to post to fall to the 2nd and is there any player who we would take over him if this were to happen? 

I don't think there's anything he can do to put himself in the top ten. I mean it's possible if he just simply blows everybody out the water, but I just don't see 3 cbs going in the top ten and I think the overall consensus is most teams have Ramsey and vh3 cemented as the top 2 dbs. Any things possible though.

 

as far as your question on Lawson- it all depends on what we do with our first pick obviously..although I guess it's certainly possible we double dip. I just see us grabbing a cb or wr in round 2 for some reason. 

[Jaybirds]

Jaylon Smith on crutches:  2nd or 3rd round.  Jaylon Smith off crutches:  #6 pick. 
Michael Thomas:  being nice to ANYONE, early 2nd.   Being Keyshawn:  pass... well, maybe if he drops to the 4th. 
Noah Spence:  good interview, first round maybe even #6.  Josh Gordon clone, not so much. 
Robert Nkemdiche:  all of the above. 

As far as actual numbers go, I'd like to see if Reggie Ragland or A'Shawn Robinson have plus speed for their positions.  If we think they can get into the backfield consistently, I could see them moving up our board. 
 

[ngatainmyhouse]

10 hours ago, rmw10 said:

How do you know that though?  Remember that teams have way more resources than we and even the draft experts have.  For the most part, it's the outsiders playing catch up to a player's true value.  He could have been rated as a 1st rounder on a team's board long before the combine hit.

Okay well if we go that route that we literally don't and won't know anything for certain about the draftt

[ngatainmyhouse]

9 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

actually the ORIGINAL argument was that game tape is the only factor in drafting, you just now threw that argument in there, unless i missed it after searching for it repeatedly... 

 

and no, byron jones had buzz long before the combine, he had some very impressive film that showed a versatile and athletic DB who could execute any assignment given to him, and it also showed a good mental grasp of the game. just because he didnt have the media exposure doesnt mean he was an unknown. GMs knew who he was and they had done their homework, all the combine did was make his ceiling appear a little bit higher. he may not have been a first rounder without the combine but his tape alone was enough to get him picked in the 2nd round

"Combine numbers are only important if you have two guys that are equal at their position"

 

This is what my original comment was based on. I hope you didn't put too much time into your repeated searches. I will admit that Byron Jones wasn't the greatest option due to the fact that he actually had impressive film and did well his rookie year. For an older example that can argue that combine numbers only matter for two guys that are equal at their positions is Stephen Hill. Without his combine I highly doubt he is taken in the 2nd round. He was 6'4" and had a good 40. Same thing with Margus Hunt. 

[gabefergy]

The combine matters. Anyone arguing it doesn't is either naive or just being contrarian. The extent to which it matters can be debated, but it's absolutely true that there are certain numbers players at each position need to hit, whether they are testing numbers or just size. 

Obviously, tape evaluation is far more important than players who just work out well, but it does affect the process.

[rmw10]

3 hours ago, ngatainmyhouse said:

Okay well if we go that route that we literally don't and won't know anything for certain about the draftt

And that is the case.  There hardly ever is certainty in the draft.  That's why you see "risers" and "fallers" each and every year.  Just because the media or other people tout a guy as a 3rd round pick doesn't mean that's what his value is.  Our resources are severely limited compared to what NFL teams get.  Even draft analysts say NFL teams get so much more than they do.

[GrimCoconut]

15 hours ago, ngatainmyhouse said:

The argument was that the combine only helps players that are equal at their position. I am saying, without the combine, that there is zero chance that Byron Jones is selected in the 1st round. Year after year players help or hinder their draft stock due to their performance in the combine

Bruce Irvin had a good combine but wasn't seen as a first round pick even on Draft day. I don't think teams do what you suggest unless I'm not correctly interpreting your statement correctly. I think teams rate players far differently than the media is aware and these ratings sometimes come out as we get closer to the draft. That said, I do think the combine has an impact. I think GMs look at combine numbers and the numbers cause them to look closer or not at a prospect. 

[RavensDieHard21]

On 1/17/2016 at 1:37 PM, BmoreBird22 said:

When you consider Elvis Dumervil is about 265 pounds and still getting washed out of running plays, 240 is still too light for me.

 

In 2013, every single team in the NFL that ran the 3-4 had an average weight at OLB that was at least 250, with the exception being the Steelers at 248. Seven of those teams had weights averaging at least 260 (with three teams begin 258 or 259). 

Basically, he's way too light.

if is weighs more than 240, Floyd early on could just be a pass rush specialist while he adds weight properly. he should ideally weigh 250-255, but watching tape on him makes it hard to deny his explosiveness and ability to fly past tackles before they even had a chance at getting their hands on him, Imagine him lining up next to Sizzle or doom in exotic blitz packages. 

[Jacquouille]

Reggie Ragland running a fast (or at least not slow) 40 would make me consider him for a trade back. It's one of my biggest worries with him. If he shows some good stuff as a pass rusher I would be really taunted also, his versatility as a LB would be huge for us.

[L.A.Ravens]

Leonard Floyd will drop to the 2nd round. More tape I watch on him he does flash great pass rushing skills, but gets pushed out of the way easily in 75% of the plays he's in. 

[Jacquouille]

2 hours ago, L.A.Ravens said:

Leonard Floyd will drop to the 2nd round. More tape I watch on him he does flash great pass rushing skills, but gets pushed out of the way easily in 75% of the plays he's in. 

Possible, I have seen him mocked in the second already. Would love to get him in the 2nd, he's got an tremendous talent. 

[Clmraven]

I think sometimes we give GMs way too much credit, implying that they are too professional to be over influenced by combine numbers, I just don't think that's the case, I think they get enamored with the size and/or speed guys who put up monster numbers just like a lot of us do, like some said above Byron Jones may not have been a first rounder without the combine but it gave him a chance to showcase elite athleticism, and his tape backed it up because he looked like a true shutdown corner in college before his injury.