Gabe's Big Board

[Sizzlebshu]

you guys see the gif I just posted? He knocks an OL backwards before the guy could even engage him. 

 

This is shedding a block, no? https://zippy.gfycat.com/SaltyComplicatedComet.webm

 

Here he sheds the TE pretty effortlessly. https://zippy.gfycat.com/FloweryPlaintiveHumpbackwhale.webm

 

I don't see it as a problem.

I saw the gif, just not sure what to make of the play. Okay so he has the strength to jolt a blocker back (good), but it's not like he got around the block to make a play or really eliminated the blocker as an impediment. You kinda wish he finished there, but he may have just been trying to maintain his assignment and didn't want to compromise it by moving past. It's good that he prevented the blocker from engaging and I noted that, but when I look for block shedding, I am looking for what he does after getting engaged. I need to know he has the technique to consistently get off blocks and disengage. 

 

2nd one I'm not really sure of. The block kind of accomplished its goal. Yes he got off it, but the RB already made it past, and it's not like the blocker could push him/hold him anywhere else since the other guy (blocker) is cutting off the other direction.  

 

the TE is probably the best example I've seen of it (in terms of technique and disengaging). This is actually what I'm looking for when I watch the tape. 

 

You're probably right and it isn't a problem and I'm expecting too much in terms of block shedding. I just find when he gets into the piles and has to sort through and shed blocks to get to the ball carrier/QB, he just doesn't really do it, but maybe I'm expecting too much there.

 

Not to compare them at all, but when I'm looking at Jack's tape, I don't see a ton of instances of him showing that he can consistently shed blocks to make plays (especially around the line of scrimmage) unlike Keuchley shows here

Three minutes into this and there is 0 questions about his ability to shed blocks. Part of that probably has to do with Jack's role and to a lesser extent, his size. I'd like to see more of that.  Edited January 15, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[JoeyFlex5]

Not even close to Lockett. He's a tough little guy that can go across the middle. I dont see Coleman sniffing the middle of the field in the NFL.

lockett is a body catcher and gets nervous hands on traffic, not sure where you're getting that idea from. I don't even like Coleman but I think with some work he will be a machine across the middle, he's built well at his size and plays very hard and tough

[gabefergy]

I saw the gif, just not sure what to make of the play. Okay so he has the strength to jolt a blocker back (good), but it's not like he got around the block to make a play or really eliminated the blocker as an impediment. You kinda wish he finished there, but he may have just been trying to maintain his assignment and didn't want to compromise it by moving past. It's good that he prevented the blocker from engaging and I noted that, but when I look for block shedding, I am looking for what he does after getting engaged. I need to know he has the technique to consistently get off blocks and disengage. 

 

2nd one I'm not really sure of. The block kind of accomplished its goal. Yes he got off it, but the RB already made it past, and it's not like the blocker could push him/hold him anywhere else since the other guy (blocker) is cutting off the other direction.  

 

the TE is probably the best example I've seen of it (in terms of technique and disengaging). This is actually what I'm looking for when I watch the tape. 

 

You're probably right and it isn't a problem and I'm expecting too much in terms of block shedding. I just find when he gets into the piles and has to sort through and shed blocks to get to the ball carrier/QB, he just doesn't really do it, but maybe I'm expecting too much there.

 

Not to compare them at all, but when I'm looking at Jack's tape, I don't see a ton of instances of him showing that he can consistently shed blocks to make plays (especially around the line of scrimmage) unlike Keuchley shows here

Three minutes into this and there is 0 questions about his ability to shed blocks. Part of that probably has to do with Jack's role and to a lesser extent, his size. I'd like to see more of that. 

You're right, it's a pretty small sample size to look at. A lot of the time he is lined up at OLB or even slot CB, it kind of makes evaluating him as an ILB a challenge, but imo he has all the tools to be an elite LB in today's NFL. Mosley is already a great run defender, and I think their speed and different skillsets would complement each other well.

[Sizzlebshu]

You're right, it's a pretty small sample size to look at. A lot of the time he is lined up at OLB or even slot CB, it kind of makes evaluating him as an ILB a challenge, but imo he has all the tools to be an elite LB in today's NFL. Mosley is already a great run defender, and I think their speed and different skillsets would complement each other well.

Lets say that he isnt a great run defender and doesnt shes blocks well. Why not just take a db then if thats the case at 6. For him to be worth this pick, he has to be able to perform linebacker functions well in addition to covering like he does. Seems like a waste to have just a 3 rd down linebacker Edited January 17, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[gabefergy]

Lets say that he isnt a great run defender and doesnt shes blocks well. Why not just take a db then if thats the case at 6. For him to be worth this pick, he has to be able to perform linebacker functions well in addition to covering like he does. Seems like a waste to have a 3 rd down linebacker

Well for one, I think he will be a good run defender. He has good size for the position. He plays fast and physical, sideline to sideline. On top of that you are getting a guy who is an elite coverage player. If you watch Ramsey's tape at safety and Jack's tape I think I like what Jack does in the box more than Ramsey. I'm not sold that Ramsey would be an elite cover guy or an elite single high or even 2 high safety. His versatility and rare athletic traits are part of why he is such an impressive prospect. I see similar versatility and potential with Jack although he would be more of a hybrid LB/DB, we've seen players like Deone Bucannon be extremely effective and important in that role.

[rmw10]

I was telling someone earlier that it might be tough to see "ILB" as a pick at 6, but Myles Jack would be 100% worth it to me.  One of the team's biggest issues has been coverage on TEs and RBs.  Jack is probably the best coverage LB I've ever seen.  Jaylon Smith is the only one that rivals him and obviously the injury is an issue for him.  Even though he's an ILB, I think you're talking about an elite player and a defensive cornerstone.

[GrimCoconut]

I was telling someone earlier that it might be tough to see "ILB" as a pick at 6, but Myles Jack would be 100% worth it to me.  One of the team's biggest issues has been coverage on TEs and RBs.  Jack is probably the best coverage LB I've ever seen.  Jaylon Smith is the only one that rivals him and obviously the injury is an issue for him.  Even though he's an ILB, I think you're talking about an elite player and a defensive cornerstone.

I was thinking the same thing. I'd like to see just how many of our yards & points were due to blown coverage on TEs & RBs. I recall quite a few first downs Mosley, Hill, & Daryl Smith surrendered this year. It might actually significantly help our defense to have a player like Jack next to Mosley. 

[Sizzlebshu]

Well for one, I think he will be a good run defender. He has good size for the position. He plays fast and physical, sideline to sideline. On top of that you are getting a guy who is an elite coverage player. If you watch Ramsey's tape at safety and Jack's tape I think I like what Jack does in the box more than Ramsey. I'm not sold that Ramsey would be an elite cover guy or an elite single high or even 2 high safety. His versatility and rare athletic traits are part of why he is such an impressive prospect. I see similar versatility and potential with Jack although he would be more of a hybrid LB/DB, we've seen players like Deone Bucannon be extremely effective and important in that role.

I mean you kinda side stepped the question. If jack works out obv its fine, but if he doesnt or rather we have enough concern that he wont, why wouldnt you just choose a db who is active in run support like a ramsey or whoever or just a safer prospect in general

Jack is a linebacker with great coverage skills but uktimately unless we convert him, possibly an uphill battle, id rather jist have the guy who can cover

Idk if i trust jacks listed size either. Could be 6ft 222. Im less concerned with that since he would t need to put on much wt and his ht is close enough

Edited January 17, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[Sizzlebshu]

FWIW I am enamored with Jack's talent and skillset. However, if I have to question whether or not he can perform one of the most basic functions of the position, it is a cause for concern, and I have double check. I would love to have him. I am also not sure how smart he is in terms of reading plays (again function of his position), but I am less concerned with that given Mosely will play the MIKE and take care of that. Jack will play the WILL where he can just focus on reacting, carrying out his assignment, and cleaning up plays. I can write those things off, but Deone Bucanon went where he did for a reason and Deone Bucanon is not worth a top 6 pick.  

 

I have 0 concerns with him as a 43 guy because he can perform all of the main functions well and the things I don't see on tape can be considered nitpicky for his role. His main role in that would be coverage and he can do that exceedingly well. Run support is secondary and mainly the d line's responsibility. 

Edited January 17, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[gabefergy]

I mean you kinda side stepped the question. If jack works out obv its fine, but if he doesnt or rather we have enough concern that he wont, why wouldnt you just choose a db who is active in run support like a ramsey or whoever or just a safer prospect in general

Jack is a linebacker with great coverage skills but uktimately unless we convert him, possibly an uphill battle, id rather jist have the guy who can cover

Idk if i trust jacks listed size either. Could be 6ft 222. Im less concerned with that since he would t need to put on much wt and his ht is close enough

Any player is going to have question marks to a degree, but I've seen enough from Jack to say with confidence he will be solid to elite in all aspects of the LB position. If Ramsey is there, I would take him over Jack, that's why he is higher on the board, but I think the skillset that Jack brings is more valuable than someone like Hargreaves who I have more questions about.

 

If the draft goes Bosa, Tunsil, Ramsey, Treadwell, Buckner who are you taking at #6? To me it's between Nkemdiche who has some big character concerns, Stanley who I have concerns about, Hargreaves who I have concerns about, and Jack who I really don't have any concerns about. Maybe you try to trade back a couple spots and still get Jack? That's a possibility, but I'm comfortable with Jack at #6. He fills a glaring need we had in coverage and his upside is immense imo.

[gabefergy]

FWIW I am enamored with Jack's talent and skillset. However, if I have to question whether or not he can perform one of the most basic functions of the position, it is a cause for concern, and I have double check. I would love to have him. I am also not sure how smart he is in terms of reading plays (again function of his position), but I am less concerned with that given Mosely will play the MIKE and take care of that. Jack will play the WILL where he can just focus on reacting, carrying out his assignment, and cleaning up plays. I can write those things off, but Deone Bucanon went where he did for a reason and Deone Bucanon is not worth a top 6 pick.  

 

I have 0 concerns with him as a 43 guy because he can perform all of the main functions well and the things I don't see on tape can be considered nitpicky for his role. His main role in that would be coverage and he can do that exceedingly well. Run support is secondary and mainly the d line's responsibility. 

Jack's better than Bucannon in every possible way, but I could see a similar role.

[Sizzlebshu]

Any player is going to have question marks to a degree, but I've seen enough from Jack to say with confidence he will be solid to elite in all aspects of the LB position. If Ramsey is there, I would take him over Jack, that's why he is higher on the board, but I think the skillset that Jack brings is more valuable than someone like Hargreaves who I have more questions about.

 

If the draft goes Bosa, Tunsil, Ramsey, Treadwell, Buckner who are you taking at #6? To me it's between Nkemdiche who has some big character concerns, Stanley who I have concerns about, Hargreaves who I have concerns about, and Jack who I really don't have any concerns about. Maybe you try to trade back a couple spots and still get Jack? That's a possibility, but I'm comfortable with Jack at #6. He fills a glaring need we had in coverage and his upside is immense imo.

For me it would be Noah Spence. 

[gabefergy]

For me it would be Noah Spence. 

I can get behind that. Spence has some special talent, but also the character question mark like Nkemdiche. The FO has to put in a lot of work on those two.

[Dewy101]

I have a question. Why is a LT one of our biggest needs? I don't think they are as valuable as they once were. The most dominate pass rushers in the league as of right now are usually lined up on the right side. Plus the success of teams getting the ball out quickly to their playmakers has changed the way people look at pass protection. Not to mention drafting a LT high isn't a sure thing like most may think. Just look at the past few drafts.

[52520Andrew]

Well for one, I think he will be a good run defender. He has good size for the position. He plays fast and physical, sideline to sideline. On top of that you are getting a guy who is an elite coverage player. If you watch Ramsey's tape at safety and Jack's tape I think I like what Jack does in the box more than Ramsey. I'm not sold that Ramsey would be an elite cover guy or an elite single high or even 2 high safety. His versatility and rare athletic traits are part of why he is such an impressive prospect. I see similar versatility and potential with Jack although he would be more of a hybrid LB/DB, we've seen players like Deone Bucannon be extremely effective and important in that role.

I'd love Jack in a role similar to Deone Bucannon. The middle of the defense is our biggest weakness and Jack could be the future prototype of a hybrid linebacker.

[Sizzlebshu]

I can get behind that. Spence has some special talent, but also the character question mark like Nkemdiche. The FO has to put in a lot of work on those two.

Honestly, Spence might be the one of the top 3 players in this draft (definitely top 5). The only two players I wouldn't take Spence over are Bosa, and Tunsil (and Jack assuming if I go prior years tape I see that he can shed blocks well.) 

Edited January 17, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[PurpleCity5]

I have a question. Why is a LT one of our biggest needs? I don't think they are as valuable as they once were. The most dominate pass rushers in the league as of right now are usually lined up on the right side. Plus the success of teams getting the ball out quickly to their playmakers has changed the way people look at pass protection. Not to mention drafting a LT high isn't a sure thing like most may think. Just look at the past few drafts.

Have you seen our offense when James Hurst is forced to sub in for Eugene Monroe? LT is an absolutely important position for this team. Even if dominant pass rushers line up on the right, it does not mean teams won't look for the best match ups, JJ Watt and Khalil Mack come into mind, DCs are going to scheme these guys to get their best matchups, that would mean them going up against guys like Hurst. I do prefer to go into other directions if we re-sign K.O as our LT, but if not then we need to find one, trade up if need-be.

Edited January 17, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[arnie_uk]

What is Spences off field issues that most people think he's more a late first early second as an overall product?

[BmoreBird22]

What is Spences off field issues that most people think he's more a late first early second as an overall product?

He was kicked off of Ohio State for multiple failed ecstasy tests. I know some people on here think that's not a big deal because it's college, but ecstasy is a class A drug (cocaine, heroine, etc), so it's  a really big deal to fail a drug test for it multiple times.

[Cillmatic]

He was kicked off of Ohio State for multiple failed ecstasy tests. I know some people on here think that's not a big deal because it's college, but ecstasy is a class A drug (cocaine, heroine, etc), so it's a really big deal to fail a drug test for it multiple times.

I wouldn't even draft him. Sounds like a supreme idiot.

[GrimCoconut]

What is Spences off field issues that most people think he's more a late first early second as an overall product?

He was kicked off of Ohio State for multiple failed ecstasy tests. I know some people on here think that's not a big deal because it's college, but ecstasy is a class A drug (cocaine, heroine, etc), so it's a really big deal to fail a drug test for it multiple times.

I wouldn't even draft him. Sounds like a supreme idiot.

As Bmore said, he failed I believe two ecstasy tests that resulted in him getting permanently banned from the BIG10. He was certainly a dominant player, though, and looked that way even at EKU. He looks like he legitimately turned around his life and that may help his draft stock.

This isn't, however, a Jimmy Smith or Jernigan situation. Ecstasy is a serious drug that's seriously addictive but it varies. He may not have been physically addicted but psychologically. There's no telling if he's another Justin Houston or Justin Blackmon and Josh Gordon.

I think he'll fall to the second or early third at the latest.

[BmoreBird22]

As Bmore said, he failed I believe two ecstasy tests that resulted in him getting permanently banned from the BIG10. He was certainly a dominant player, though, and looked that way even at EKU. He looks like he legitimately turned around his life and that may help his draft stock.

This isn't, however, a Jimmy Smith or Jernigan situation. Ecstasy is a serious drug that's seriously addictive but it varies. He may not have been physically addicted but psychologically. There's no telling if he's another Justin Houston or Justin Blackmon and Josh Gordon.

I think he'll fall to the second or early third at the latest.

I know nothing about his personal life outside of two serious drug offenses.

 

I wouldn't risk him in the first round. That's a major red flag to get nailed twice for ecstasy. I personally think less people have an understanding of how bad ecstasy is, so they treat it as, "Oh, what ever, he's in college." However, if we replaced that with cocaine, I bet people would call him undraftable.

I wouldn't take the risk, personally since I don't know much about him at EKU.

[Sizzlebshu]

I know nothing about his personal life outside of two serious drug offenses.

I wouldn't risk him in the first round. That's a major red flag to get nailed twice for ecstasy. I personally think less people have an understanding of how bad ecstasy is, so they treat it as, "Oh, what ever, he's in college." However, if we replaced that with cocaine, I bet people would call him undraftable.

I wouldn't take the risk, personally since I don't know much about him at EKU.

No id atill be saying the same thing. If he was smart enough to avoid getting caught for a yr at eku, then hes smart enough to do it in the nfl like everyone else Edited January 17, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[BmoreBird22]

No id atill be saying the same thing. If he was smart enough to avoid getting caught for a yr at eku, then hes smart enough to do it in the nfl like everyone else

Because EKU is on the same level as a multi billion dollar organization... right, right.

[GrimCoconut]

Because EKU is on the same level as a multi billion dollar organization... right, right.

To his point, I don't think EKU administers the drug tests but I think it's the NCAA or the conference. That's my guess since he was suspended from the BIG 10 & not just Ohio State.

[BmoreBird22]

To his point, I don't think EKU administers the drug tests but I think it's the NCAA or the conference. That's my guess since he was suspended from the BIG 10 & not just Ohio State.

Sounds more like it's a shared responsibility, but I'd place more responsibility on the schools than the NCAA considering there's a very large amount of DI and DII programs to keep track of.

 

The NCAA and its member schools share the responsibility of not only testing, but also educating student-athletes to prevent drug usage. The NCAA conducts testing at its championships and programs in Divisions I and II through its year-round testing program. In addition, the majority of institutions conduct their own institutional testing programs independent of NCAA drug testing. The NCAA spends more than $5 million annually on drug testing and education in an effort to deter the use of banned and harmful substances.

[arnie_uk]

Know plenty of people that have used ectasy. Personally don't think it's that big a deal. Go out sat night, get smashed, awful come down sunday, grand come Monday.

Maybe that's just cause it's quite "popular" on the party scene, which in my teens and early 20s I loved!

[Cillmatic]

Know plenty of people that have used ectasy. Personally don't think it's that big a deal. Go out sat night, get smashed, awful come down sunday, grand come Monday.

Maybe that's just cause it's quite "popular" on the party scene, which in my teens and early 20s I loved!

That's not the main problem....

This guy has the opertunity to have a free education and make millions by playing a GAME but he'd rather risk it all to do some drugs; that's the sign of a SUPREMELY asinine simpleton; not someone you want on your team.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Cillmatic

[arnie_uk]

That's not the main problem....

This guy has the opertunity to have a free education and make millions by playing a GAME but he'd rather risk it all to do some drugs; that's the sign of a SUPREMELY asinine simpleton; not someone you want on your team.

I don't hold it against a young kid that likes to party a bit.

If it turns into an addiction and he doesn't show hr can change then that's different.

If he's been suspended, got his wakeup call and sorted his life out, that's a plus!

[gabefergy]

I know nothing about his personal life outside of two serious drug offenses.

 

I wouldn't risk him in the first round. That's a major red flag to get nailed twice for ecstasy. I personally think less people have an understanding of how bad ecstasy is, so they treat it as, "Oh, what ever, he's in college." However, if we replaced that with cocaine, I bet people would call him undraftable.

I wouldn't take the risk, personally since I don't know much about him at EKU.

I don't think there is any point to discuss what drug is a worse one to take. Taking anything as an athlete is a bad decision given the risk involved. It's up to the teams to figure out if the kid is going to have a real problem following rules or if it's just a young immature kid having fun who has gotten past that stage of his life.