Realisticly What do you think happens to Tucker, K.O. and Upshaw this off season?

[January J]

The same people saying pay KO at the risk of Tucker walking, will be the same people complaining when whatever kicker we sign/draft cant make the game winning field goal and win us the game, after letting our top 5 kicker who would have made it, walk. You cant have it all people.

exactly. And with all these wildcard games being decided by feild goals it goes to show you the value of having a kicker who can come through in the clutch. We've been there before and I'd rather not have to go through that again.

[GrimCoconut]

Those of you who think KO leaves please tell me how much you think he gets paid in free agency? Now tell me why we can't afford it.

[rmw10]

Those of you who think KO leaves please tell me how much you think he gets paid in free agency? Now tell me why we can't afford it.

 

I think too many people see the yearly average of the deal and thing we can't afford that, but the reality is that we'll backload the deal and have an affordable year 1 cap hit.  All of that is assuming he signs here, of course.

Edited January 10, 2016 by rmw10

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Those of you who think KO leaves please tell me how much you think he gets paid in free agency? Now tell me why we can't afford it.

I honestly don't know what he is going to get but we both know how the newer rules allow other teams can start negotiating with any of these guys before free agency even starts and we have seen how some of these crazy team GM's throw out big dollars for guys. K.O. is going to get paid and now he and his agent can even add playing LT to his resume BIG BUCKS!!! But I don't even want to guess..

[GrimCoconut]

I honestly don't know what he is going to get but we both know how the newer rules allow other teams can start negotiating with any of these guys before free agency even starts and we have seen how some of these crazy team GM's throw out big dollars for guys. K.O. is going to get paid and now he and his agent can even add playing LT to his resume BIG BUCKS!!! But I don't even want to guess..

I've gone on record voicing my opinion in terms of his theorized contract. I'm not calling you out but you replied to me and to you I'll say you need to honestly put more thought into this. You and others like you honestly sound like Chicken Littles to me. Unless you can provide a guess on his annual average cap hit and why we can't afford it, I can't argue any point because yours and others are by definition baseless in that circumstance.

KO most certainly won't get Tyron Smith money. He's only played LT for four games. If he gets north of $8M his agent deserves half of it because that's crazy. I think he can possibly play LT and I don't want to under rate him, but I don't even see him eclipsing the deal Monroe received.

I know you didn't mention Smith but he is the last big money LT signing. I used him as an example because of that.

Edited January 10, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

I've gone on record voicing my opinion in terms of his theorized contract. I'm not calling you out but you replied to me and to you I'll say you need to honestly put more thought into this. You and others like you honestly sound like Chicken Littles to me. Unless you can provide a guess on his annual average cap hit and why we can't afford it, I can't argue any point because yours and others are by definition baseless in that circumstance.

KO most certainly won't get Tyron Smith money. He's only played LT for four games. If he gets north of $8M his agent deserves half of it because that's crazy. I think he can possibly play LT and I don't want to under rate him, but I don't even see him eclipsing the deal Monroe received.

I know you didn't mention Smith but he is the last big money LT signing. I used him as an example because of that.

LOL How much money have we seen players leave here for in the past and that were worth no where near what the other team payed for them? Ellerbe, Kruger just to mention a couple some crazy GM is going to throw money at K.O. if Oz cant work something out before free agency starts JUST A FACT....Chicken little huh? That's funny LOL. Had to give you a thumbs up on that one because that's just funny plus I would be willing to bet LT money and only 4 games as you mentioned I am thinking Oz is not ready to pay that but with some of these GMs is not out of the question mark my words not out of the question for some of these crazy GM's..

Edited January 11, 2016 by ALSKAN RAVEN FAN

[GrimCoconut]

Let's put this in perspective: here's a link showing the NFL LT ranked by average salary. KO played 4 games at LT. He probably does see his value increase due to that; however, he's only played 4 games. A similar comparison is Collins from the Bengals, who looked good while in Cincinnati in a small sample size and got paid I think close to $6M average. I looked and he played 15 games at LT in 2013, however, which is far from 4.

Now let's look at LG salaries:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/guard/

That's still not LT money except for the highest paid LG, which is what most of us expect him to get. I think $8M is his cap, but Orlando Franklin, a similar player, just got $7.3M average.

[GrimCoconut]

LOL How much money have we seen players leave here for in the past and that were worth no where near what the other team payed for them? Ellerbe, Kruger just to mention a couple some crazy GM is going to throw money at K.O. if Oz cant work something out before free agency starts JUST A FACT....Chicken little huh? That's funny LOL.

Yeah, you sound like Chicken Little. Just telling you my opinion. It sounds like the sky will crash because we can never afford to bring these guys back, but bringing back KO is certainly possible. If you looked at the numbers rather than go off fear you'd realize this reality. It's not as dire as you suggest.

You need to look beyond the surface of this year and look at long-term sustainability of signing him. It's certainly possible, although it hinges on losing other guys. Cleaning up the cap hit of both Pitta and Monroe frees the noose quite comfortably to breathe beyond this year. That 80/20 rule is real.

Btw, I'm not at all making passive aggressive attempts to insult you or anyone else and this isn't some attempt to throw around subtle insults. I'm just trying to show you it's not impossible and highly feasible.

Edited January 11, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Yeah, you sound like Chicken Little. Just telling you my opinion. It sounds like the sky will crash because we can never afford to bring these guys back, but bringing back KO is certainly possible. If you looked at the numbers rather than go off fear you'd realize this reality. It's not as dire as you suggest.

You need to look beyond the surface of this year and look at long-term sustainability of signing him. It's certainly possible, although it hinges on losing other guys. Cleaning up the cap hit of both Pitta and Monroe frees the noose quite comfortably to breathe beyond this year. That 80/20 rule is real.

Btw, I'm not at all making passive aggressive attempts to insult you or anyone else and this isn't some attempt to throw around subtle insults. I'm just trying to show you it's not impossible and highly feasible.

Look at my post  I don't think it is impossible to bring him back but if it gets to the free agency period

chances are a crazy GM will give K.O. top dollar even LT dollars.

LOL How much money have we seen players leave here for in the past and that were worth no where near what the other team payed for them? Ellerbe, Kruger just to mention a couple some crazy GM is going to throw money at K.O. if Oz cant work something out before free agency starts JUST A FACT....Chicken little huh? That's funny LOL. Had to give you a thumbs up on that one because that's just funny plus I would be willing to bet LT money and only 4 games as you mentioned I am thinking Oz is not ready to pay that but with some of these GMs is not out of the question mark my words not out of the question for some of these crazy GM's..

 

 

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Yeah, you sound like Chicken Little. Just telling you my opinion. It sounds like the sky will crash because we can never afford to bring these guys back, but bringing back KO is certainly possible. If you looked at the numbers rather than go off fear you'd realize this reality. It's not as dire as you suggest.

You need to look beyond the surface of this year and look at long-term sustainability of signing him. It's certainly possible, although it hinges on losing other guys. Cleaning up the cap hit of both Pitta and Monroe frees the noose quite comfortably to breathe beyond this year. That 80/20 rule is real.

Btw, I'm not at all making passive aggressive attempts to insult you or anyone else and this isn't some attempt to throw around subtle insults. I'm just trying to show you it's not impossible and highly feasible.

If its for LG money I think its more realistic and I believe Oz will do his best to give him a fair deal but now the big question is what does K.O. and his agent consider a fair deal? I did not take it as an insult I thought it was funny truly.

[GrimCoconut]

Look at my post I don't think it is impossible to bring him back but if it gets to the free agency period

chances are a crazy GM will give K.O. top dollar even LT dollars.

I read it and I still disagree. Why can't we retain him? Did you look at the links I posted showing LT and LG money? KO has played at a high level, no question, but there are factors also working against him. First of all, he's had a fair share of injuries. I doubt that truly limits his earning potential but it'll certainly impact it. Second, he's only played 4 games at LT. Third, this is a strong LT draft class. Fourth, there are some quality free agent LT this year, which could also drive down his demand. Fifth, he's not even the most proven LT on the market or even close to it.

[GrimCoconut]

If its for LG money I think its more realistic and I believe Oz will do his best to give him a fair deal but now the big question is what does K.O. and his agent consider a fair deal? I did not take it as an insult I thought it was funny truly.

I hear what you're saying but I just don't see how they have much leverage with the LT thing. KO just isn't proven there and I think the Ravens actually benefit by him hitting the market because he'll get offers and likely bring them back to us and we'll probably match them because I don't see teams throwing money at him.

Glad to hear it. It was meant as humor but it's so hard to infer that sometimes so I like to make sure.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

I read it and I still disagree. Why can't we retain him? Did you look at the links I posted showing LT and LG money? KO has played at a high level, no question, but there are factors also working against him. First of all, he's had a fair share of injuries. I doubt that truly limits his earning potential but it'll certainly impact it. Second, he's only played 4 games at LT. Third, this is a strong LT draft class. Fourth, there are some quality free agent LT this year, which could also drive down his demand. Fifth, he's not even the most proven LT on the market or even close to it.

Man I do think there is a realistic chance we keep K.O. but you and I both know it's going to come down to the all mighty $ just like every other free agent player. We both know his agent is saying K.O. you can make this much $$$$  and more than likely some crazy GM will pay it too. Just so you know I want K.O. back I just don't know how hard it is going to be to do it.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

I hear what you're saying but I just don't see how they have much leverage with the LT thing. KO just isn't proven there and I think the Ravens actually benefit by him hitting the market because he'll get offers and likely bring them back to us and we'll probably match them because I don't see teams throwing money at him.

Glad to hear it. It was meant as humor but it's so hard to infer that sometimes so I like to make sure.

Believe me I hope your right I would like to see K.O. here in Baltimore for the next 5-6 years.

[GrimCoconut]

Believe me I hope your right I would like to see K.O. here in Baltimore for the next 5-6 years.

Honestly, I'd like him back but I am on the fence about it because of the small sample at LT, the leg injuries, and the possibilities of LG. That said, I want him back because he's a great LG at the very least when he's been healthy and did look good at LT in the small sample size

[Moderator 3]

This might be wishful thinking, but perhaps we can do a contract with K.O. that pays him respectable LG money and has built in incentives if he plays LT for any length of time.

[GrimCoconut]

This might be wishful thinking, but perhaps we can do a contract with K.O. that pays him respectable LG money and has built in incentives if he plays LT for any length of time.

This is kinda how I see it.

[terrynjulia03]

I voted Tucker initially gets the tag to work on his contract later. The priority is Joes and who knows how much Linta jerks around. But he'll go into next year with a new deal. Cant not have a good kicker. So hes shaky at home over 50, BUT next year were switching back to grass. Hes pretty damn good on grass fields.

Upshaw will test FA. Doubt he gets much interest, if he comes back depends on IF we stay in a 3-4 or god has mercy on the Ravens and all that lip service was just that and Pees is gone and were just waiting on someone from one of the playoff teams. All in all. He may just come back on a small term deal, unless some dumb team just sees Ravens LB and pays him more than the vet min.

KO. This is the biggie. Personally I think Monroe gets traded early, like right before the draft for a pick. With that I think we try and resign him on a decent G contract. We NEVER go into the draft with a glaring hole. The biggest question is.... Do we resign KO, move Urschel to G and draft another playmaker, OR do we trade Monroe, watch KO walk and forced to draft Tunsil or Stanley? This is going to be the most important move of this offseason and honestly I dont know what their going to do.

This was a question on realistics, and with KO I and LT I really dont know. Me personally I say if we can resign him for a Monroe style contract, that works for me. Provided Trestman signs off on it along with Castillo. Draft another G/T in the middle rounds.

[CharmCityChampions]

exactly. And with all these wildcard games being decided by feild goals it goes to show you the value of having a kicker who can come through in the clutch. We've been there before and I'd rather not have to go through that again.

 

Especially after seeing midway through the year all these teams who had issues with their kickers and going through the kicker carosel. It makes you appreciate what we've got

[usmccharles]

I still find it laughable people saying tucker should be gone.... He misses a couple 50+ yarders and everyone hates on him. Cundiff missed a 32 yarder for a potential superbowl spot, just think about that

[Wildabeast88]

LOL How much money have we seen players leave here for in the past and that were worth no where near what the other team payed for them? Ellerbe, Kruger just to mention a couple some crazy GM is going to throw money at K.O. if Oz cant work something out before free agency starts JUST A FACT....Chicken little huh? That's funny LOL. Had to give you a thumbs up on that one because that's just funny plus I would be willing to bet LT money and only 4 games as you mentioned I am thinking Oz is not ready to pay that but with some of these GMs is not out of the question mark my words not out of the question for some of these crazy GM's..

Torrey Smith, Cary Williams, and many more we are usually real good judges of contracts most of these guys bust badly after they leave. I think we certainly try to keep KO there are to many variables to figure his contract is he a G or T does he get something ballpark to Monroe or Yanda play wise certainly but if he is a G we will not pay him like that but if we view him as a T then I think he could make that kind of money

[ellicottraven]

As surprising as it may seem considering the votes here, I feel Upshaw will be the first signed to an extension. He is a tone setter on defense which was repeatedly voiced by Pees who still happens to be our D coordinator. As for Tucker, it depends on how much his agent wants for him. It isn't as easy as people think to franchise him because it is going to take 4.5M to do it. And the Ravens are going to find it hard to create that kind of money in the short term without affecting the cap for the entire team. If however, Joe agrees to a restructure, and they cut some players with high cap savings figures, then maybe he gets franchised. Otherwise, he has to agree to a contract that the Ravens feel is commensurate with his production and can afford. If he or his agent plays hardball, then he could very well be gone. K.O is simply going to be too expensive to retain imho. So, I really don't see him being a Raven in 2016.

[usmccharles]

As surprising as it may seem considering the votes here, I feel Upshaw will be the first signed to an extension. He is a tone setter on defense which was repeatedly voiced by Pees who still happens to be our D coordinator. As for Tucker, it depends on how much his agent wants for him. It isn't as easy as people think to franchise him because it is going to take 4.5M to do it. And the Ravens are going to find it hard to create that kind of money in the short term without affecting the cap for the entire team. If however, Joe agrees to a restructure, and they cut some players with high cap savings figures, then maybe he gets franchised. Otherwise, he has to agree to a contract that the Ravens feel is commensurate with his production and can afford. If he or his agent plays hardball, then he could very well be gone. K.O is simply going to be too expensive to retain imho. So, I really don't see him being a Raven in 2016.

If we dont resign KO theres no reason we cant afford Justin, theres also no rason no to pay him.  People want to talk about moving our offense to be more offense based and try to make an elite offense, i dont think people realize how much a difference a kicker can make.  With a better offense, your in scoring position more (obviously), you wont always get a TD, you need a kicker who can handle the pressure of big game kicks, Justin does (has he ever missed a game winner?), 6 misses inside the 50 in his entire career.

        

                             First 4 years

Justin Tucker                              GostKowski

130/148                                            103/121

 

Interesting thing is that Gostkowski only had 5 attempts 50 or higher in his first 4 years.  This year Justin tried double the amount of 50 yards than Gost, (10) which is the most attempted by a kicker this year. Justin only missed one kick the entire year inside of 50 which was the one in San Fransisco where there was an issue with the field.    Gost is money and if your telling me we get him for a career im game.  Sign him now because values go up with inflation every year.  I honestly think its a no brainer and i expect him to have an average of around 3.8mill salary.  Id be ok at 4mill even...

Edited January 11, 2016 by usmccharles

[Winchester]

I hear what you're saying but I just don't see how they have much leverage with the LT thing. KO just isn't proven there and I think the Ravens actually benefit by him hitting the market because he'll get offers and likely bring them back to us and we'll probably match them because I don't see teams throwing money at him.

Glad to hear it. It was meant as humor but it's so hard to infer that sometimes so I like to make sure.

I still find it laughable people saying tucker should be gone.... He misses a couple 50+ yarders and everyone hates on him. Cundiff missed a 32 yarder for a potential superbowl spot, just think about that

Did not Cundiff play well for a while then his play fell off?? Just like Tucker. I would like to see Tucker sign elsewhere. He is overrated and had a lucky year. He missed a couple field goals in the patriots game. Tucker is a scrub and can not make 50 yarders. He should be offered vet minimum!! So maybe i got carried away a litlle. Tucker is a decent kicker really. There is a very underrated kicker \safety i know who would like to try out for the ravens. He was a top10 kicker in college and his leg is far stronger than last year when he graduated cuz of an injury. He recently practiced and kicked something like 10 straight 50 yarders or more. And made several from 60 yards. Of course it was not in a game but he has a great work ethic and is already a ravens fan. If Tucker left he most definitely would be invited to ravens camp. It would be cool if he made the ravens.

As for KO, Grim you may have the best football Iq of this forum. But consider something, Yanda may get the love from local and national media. However KO has a very menacing reputation around NFL locker rooms. He could perhaps get offered a little more than many would think cuz of his overpowering mauling style sets a tone.

[usmccharles]

Did not Cundiff play well for a while then his play fell off?? Just like Tucker. I would like to see Tucker sign elsewhere. He is overrated and had a lucky year. He missed a couple field goals in the patriots game. Tucker is a scrub and can not make 50 yarders. He should be offered vet minimum!! So maybe i got carried away a litlle. Tucker is a decent kicker really. There is a very underrated kicker \safety i know who would like to try out for the ravens. He was a top10 kicker in college and his leg is far stronger than last year when he graduated cuz of an injury. He recently practiced and kicked something like 10 straight 50 yarders or more. And made several from 60 yards. Of course it was not in a game but he has a great work ethic and is already a ravens fan. If Tucker left he most definitely would be invited to ravens camp. It would be cool if he made the ravens.

As for KO, Grim you may have the best football Iq of this forum. But consider something, Yanda may get the love from local and national media. However KO has a very menacing reputation around NFL locker rooms. He could perhaps get offered a little more than many would think cuz of his overpowering mauling style sets a tone.

Cundiff was terrible man, terrible.  his 3 years in baltimore

 

30-39 yard FG- 23/29

40-49= 17/20

50+= 1/9

 

I really dont want to go through that again, It just blows my mind that the dude has missed like 6 kicks in his entire career inside the 50 and people give him no respect.  You keep the players that perform for you and mean something.  He has made a 61 yarder to win a game for us on the road...if thats not clutch i dont know what is.  Yea hes had issues kicking at MT, other than that though i don tknow of another kicker i want, hes easily a top 5 kicker in the league.  Just blows my mind people want someone who has been vital to our success gone over 4mill a year. 

 

 

And your suggesting a friend of yours to workout for the Ravens instead of keeping Tucker.....wonder if theres a little biased opinion there....

"hey tuck, you have been great for us and you are one of the best kickers in the league, but we dont want to pay you because we want instability at yet another position" said no one....ever. 

 

Heres some kickers and the last 4 years of 50+yard kicks

 

Justin-   19/30               60%         (6 misses this year)

Gost-       12/14             85%

Vinatieri-   15/21            71%

Prater-     17/22             77%

Hauschka-12/17            70%

 

Im bored at work.....

Edited January 11, 2016 by usmccharles

[Tru11]

cundiff was a pro bowl kicker with us though in his 2nd season.

 

only missed 3 kicks that season.

 

1 over 50

1 between 40-49

1 between 30-39.

 

he made 1st team all-pro as well lol.

[usmccharles]

To put it in perspective, Stover was here from 99-08 and only attempted 17 50+yarders....

 

cundiff was a pro bowl kicker with us though in his 2nd season.

 

only missed 3 kicks that season.

 

1 over 50

1 between 40-49

1 between 30-39.

 

he made 1st team all-pro as well lol.

His other seasons were bad....He obviously did not have a strong leg going 1/9 over 50.  And clearly, we all now he cant handle pressure....In 3 seasons his average was 81.2% compared to Justin's 87.8%

 

 

Damn im getting bored at work doing all these numbers

Edited January 11, 2016 by usmccharles

[Tru11]

To put it in perspective, Stover was here from 99-08 and only attempted 17 50+yarders....

 

His other seasons were bad....He obviously did not have a strong leg going 1/9 over 50.  And clearly, we all now he cant handle pressure....In 3 seasons his average was 81.2% compared to Justin's 87.8%

 

 

Damn im getting bored at work doing all these numbers

 

meh he was what he was with us.

 

that 2010 season though he was pretty darn good.

2009 was only half a season and 2011 he showed his true self.

 

take away those 50 yarders in 2011 and he was pretty decend as well though.

 

IMO that miss in the play offs against the pats was more on the HC then him TBH.

we where thinking about going for it on 4th and then decided to send him out late and they had to rush the kick while we where keeping a TO in the pocket.

 

We where either hoping the pats would ice them which they did not or the HC had a brain fart lel.

 

If he was send out right away or we took the TO chances are he would not have missed.

[usmccharles]

meh he was what he was with us.

 

that 2010 season though he was pretty darn good.

2009 was only half a season and 2011 he showed his true self.

 

take away those 50 yarders in 2011 and he was pretty decend as well though.

 

IMO that miss in the play offs against the pats was more on the HC then him TBH.

we where thinking about going for it on 4th and then decided to send him out late and they had to rush the kick while we where keeping a TO in the pocket.

 

We where either hoping the pats would ice them which they did not or the HC had a brain fart lel.

 

If he was send out right away or we took the TO chances are he would not have missed.

take away Tuckers 50 yarders and he is easily the best kicker in the game lol.

 

And i blame Cundiff, not Harbaugh.  A 32 yarder should be money...

 

Any idea how to look up stats for game winning FGs, i dont know where to look

[Tank 92]

While signing KO and Upshaw(to a greater extent) are both question marks, keeping Tucker is a no brainer. Much like Joe, and whether you like him or not, Tucker is money when it counts and is going nowhere.