Realisticly What do you think happens to Tucker, K.O. and Upshaw this off season?

[GrimCoconut]

33 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

So let me get this straight. Ozzie should be fired because his second rounder didn't develop into anything better than an "excelent edge setter"? Do you also blame Ozzie for Upshaw not developing into a 6-8 sack guy because of his weight?

cmon man

1- upshaw may not have lived to first round potential but he certainly was not a bust. A bust is a guy that can't start for whatever reason and is usually out of the NFL by year 5.

2- 40% of first rounders turn out to be busts. Give Ozzie and Deckosta some slack will ya. Combine any 5 years of drafting since the Ravens became the Ravens and statistically we have always drafted top 10.

You should first clarify my point before calling me out because that's not what I said. I said you don't take an edge defender in the early second round if you, as the GM, think all he'll ever be is an edge setter who can't rush the passer. Meaning to say Ozzie took him thinking he could become a better pass rusher. 

And no, I don't blame Ozzie for Upshaw never becoming that guy--I blame Upshaw. Again, clarify before calling someone out. 

That said, I'm not sure why I replied to Joey's post. He didn't even say that about Ozzie picking Upshaw. Looks like I quoted the wrong guy or failed to read his point well. Not surprised, though, as that's what you (as in I) get when you read while running.

[GrimCoconut]

4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

But i just said what you disagreed with lol. I never said Ozzie took an early 2nd OLB to set the edge. I said he never lived up to his draft status because he's an OLB who never developed as an edge rusher. 

 

That said I don't think he's a bad player at all.

I don't know why I quoted you. I just realized it now that I read your post again and I'm honestly confused myself. I probably quoted the wrong person or more likely failed to read and comprehend your post. I was in the middle of running my 7 miles and needed something to distract me temporarily. My bad lol.

Upshaw isn't a bad player but he was never worth the pick. He was over drafted, that's all. 

[Halshayeji]

37 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I don't know why I quoted you. I just realized it now that I read your post again and I'm honestly confused myself. I probably quoted the wrong person or more likely failed to read and comprehend your post. I was in the middle of running my 7 miles and needed something to distract me temporarily. My bad lol.

Upshaw isn't a bad player but he was never worth the pick. He was over drafted, that's all. 

It's all good.

gotta admit 7 miles a day is impressive ? maybe u shoulda invited upshaw every once in a while

[GrimCoconut]

3 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

It's all good.

gotta admit 7 miles a day is impressive ? maybe u shoulda invited upshaw every once in a while

I don't do that every day--today's a run day, so I do endurance running or sprints on those days. 

Upshaw looks like he needs a lot of endurance running. 

I feel like I sound like I hate Upshaw and I don't. The thing with him for me is he just doesn't take care of his body. He's a smart player. He also helped set the edge and I appreciate the plays he made for us in the Super Bowl. He's hardly a scrub; however, he just isn't a good pass rusher and it was pretty clear he'd struggle there but I do think he had upside despite the fact that a lot of people say he always looked like a one-dimensional edge defender who could only set the edge. I don't think we would've drafted him to do that if that's truly what we thought. I can't get behind the idea that Ozzie and Eric said that "we need this guy because he can set the edge. He probably won't ever put up sacks but he'll set the edge and that's what we need." I at least can't buy into the idea we'd draft him to do that as a high second round pick. 

[Halshayeji]

11 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I don't do that every day--today's a run day, so I do endurance running or sprints on those days. 

Upshaw looks like he needs a lot of endurance running. 

I feel like I sound like I hate Upshaw and I don't. The thing with him for me is he just doesn't take care of his body. He's a smart player. He also helped set the edge and I appreciate the plays he made for us in the Super Bowl. He's hardly a scrub; however, he just isn't a good pass rusher and it was pretty clear he'd struggle there but I do think he had upside despite the fact that a lot of people say he always looked like a one-dimensional edge defender who could only set the edge. I don't think we would've drafted him to do that if that's truly what we thought. I can't get behind the idea that Ozzie and Eric said that "we need this guy because he can set the edge. He probably won't ever put up sacks but he'll set the edge and that's what we need." I at least can't buy into the idea we'd draft him to do that as a high second round pick. 

Your probably right if that's what you were implying. I'm sure Ozzie and them hoped for a bit more from upshaw. That would have been special. 

[Winchester]

10 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I don't do that every day--today's a run day, so I do endurance running or sprints on those days. 

Upshaw looks like he needs a lot of endurance running. 

I feel like I sound like I hate Upshaw and I don't. The thing with him for me is he just doesn't take care of his body. He's a smart player. He also helped set the edge and I appreciate the plays he made for us in the Super Bowl. He's hardly a scrub; however, he just isn't a good pass rusher and it was pretty clear he'd struggle there but I do think he had upside despite the fact that a lot of people say he always looked like a one-dimensional edge defender who could only set the edge. I don't think we would've drafted him to do that if that's truly what we thought. I can't get behind the idea that Ozzie and Eric said that "we need this guy because he can set the edge. He probably won't ever put up sacks but he'll set the edge and that's what we need." I at least can't buy into the idea we'd draft him to do that as a high second round pick. 

I agree!! It is beyond me how anybody can believe  Ozzie drafted an edge setter with the first pick. And that is all he wanted. I'm no fan of Ozzie but he would not use that much resource on a limited player. If that was the case and he is the player he was drafted to be the ravens would of at least pretended to want him back. Weight was part of Upshaw probs. Endurance  can be upgraded but it is genetics as well. Jernigan is explosive and strong like Atkins and Aaron Donald to a slightly  lesser degree. Those guys have crazy stamina to go full tilt and play violent every snap. It is rare trait for a squatty 300lb guy

[berad]

Remember that we traded down in 2012 when Upshaw was seen by most analysts as a first-round player. Him sitting in the green room was a story during the draft. It was speculated that we missed out on guys like DeCastro, Zeitler, Hightower, and obviously didn't have as high a grade on Upshaw so moved back.

I don't remember Upshaw being seen as an 'obvious' limited pass rusher, he had 9.5 sacks in 2011 and 7 in 2010. Also, a lot of the scouting reports mention a lot of hurries, especially against good programs. He did not develop as such even though he had a ton of opportunities to do so. That part was disappointing. For everything else, he was a good Raven - played hard and durable.

[The Raven]

On 3/28/2016 at 2:50 PM, 757RavensFan said:

We couldn't pay $1.5M to keep Upshaw?  

You're making the assumption we wanted him back. Clearly, we wanted him gone. We never even showed interest. It's 2016. OLBs like him need to be able to do something other than be fat and stuff the run. One dimensional players don't get roster spots on teams with good defenses.

[Gtown Purple]

We probably get a lb in the late rounds to replace upshaw.

[757RavensFan]

2 hours ago, The Raven said:

You're making the assumption we wanted him back. Clearly, we wanted him gone. We never even showed interest. It's 2016. OLBs like him need to be able to do something other than be fat and stuff the run. One dimensional players don't get roster spots on teams with good defenses.

Upshaw has contributed more than Marlon Brown but yet we brought Brown back explain that?

BTW, it was stated by the front office on a couple of occasions that they would take Upshaw back. 

[Sherly_Tebow]

12 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Upshaw has contributed more than Marlon Brown but yet we brought Brown back explain that?

BTW, it was stated by the front office on a couple of occasions that they would take Upshaw back. 

I'm pretty sure Brown only gets money if he makes the team, which I don't see him doing. Bringing him back isn't any harm since it's not costing us anything at the moment.

[The Raven]

34 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Upshaw has contributed more than Marlon Brown but yet we brought Brown back explain that?

BTW, it was stated by the front office on a couple of occasions that they would take Upshaw back. 

Different sides of the ball, different positions. Faulty comparison. We need competition at WR. Marlon can compete. At OLB, we need to find pass rushers.

Well, probably just coach speak since they didn't think he was worth $1.5 million.

[balfan23]

4 hours ago, berad said:

Remember that we traded down in 2012 when Upshaw was seen by most analysts as a first-round player. Him sitting in the green room was a story during the draft. It was speculated that we missed out on guys like DeCastro, Zeitler, Hightower, and obviously didn't have as high a grade on Upshaw so moved back.

I don't remember Upshaw being seen as an 'obvious' limited pass rusher, he had 9.5 sacks in 2011 and 7 in 2010. Also, a lot of the scouting reports mention a lot of hurries, especially against good programs. He did not develop as such even though he had a ton of opportunities to do so. That part was disappointing. For everything else, he was a good Raven - played hard and durable.

I had expected us to take Harrison Smith when we saw Zeitler and Hightower go. He went pretty quickly after we traded back. In some ways, that would have potentially been a better pick, given our years long struggle at FS. But having won the Super Bowl that year, it is kind of hard to have any regrets. Upshaw is forever a Ravens Champion. 

[GrimCoconut]

15 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

I had expected us to take Harrison Smith when we saw Zeitler and Hightower go. He went pretty quickly after we traded back. In some ways, that would have potentially been a better pick, given our years long struggle at FS. But having won the Super Bowl that year, it is kind of hard to have any regrets. Upshaw is forever a Ravens Champion. 

The Vikings traded up with us and took Harrison Smith with our pick. You're right, though. It's hard to say whether Upshaw was the difference in our Super Bowl run or not. If he was he was worth it.

[JoeyFlex5]

8 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I don't know why I quoted you. I just realized it now that I read your post again and I'm honestly confused myself. I probably quoted the wrong person or more likely failed to read and comprehend your post. I was in the middle of running my 7 miles and needed something to distract me temporarily. My bad lol.

Upshaw isn't a bad player but he was never worth the pick. He was over drafted, that's all. 

All good man lol and yeah that's basically what my point was. 

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

So how long until Tucker gets his extension?

[Maryland]

7 hours ago, ALSKAN RAVEN FAN said:

So how long until Tucker gets his extension?

Have they even had any talks yet? Seems like there is little urgency. Maybe they are waiting to see how the draft goes. Or maybe they are fine with just giving him the tag 2-years straight if necessary

[arnie_uk]

On 29/03/2016 at 5:23 PM, GrimCoconut said:

I don't know why I quoted you. I just realized it now that I read your post again and I'm honestly confused myself. I probably quoted the wrong person or more likely failed to read and comprehend your post. I was in the middle of running my 7 miles and needed something to distract me temporarily. My bad lol.

Upshaw isn't a bad player but he was never worth the pick. He was over drafted, that's all. 

Jumping in here not knowing what's going on. But Upshaw wasn't over drafted. He actually fell on draft day and I remember everyone wanted to even trade up from our first for him. He was a top 15 pick all offseason.

I specifically remember this because I was the only one on both this board and Russell Street that hated him and wanted nothing to do with him.

[Maryland]

5 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

Jumping in here not knowing what's going on. But Upshaw wasn't over drafted. He actually fell on draft day and I remember everyone wanted to even trade up from our first for him. He was a top 15 pick all offseason.

I specifically remember this because I was the only one on both this board and Russell Street that hated him and wanted nothing to do with him.

He was definitely hyped at the time by the likes of Kiper and other mock-draft pundits who considered him a 1st rounder, but in retrospect he was certainly over-drafted. 

[arnie_uk]

8 minutes ago, Maryland said:

He was definitely hyped at the time by the likes of Kiper and other mock-draft pundits who considered him a 1st rounder, but in retrospect he was certainly over-drafted. 

Most def. Ozzie wasn't the only one that got him wrong

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

Jumping in here not knowing what's going on. But Upshaw wasn't over drafted. He actually fell on draft day and I remember everyone wanted to even trade up from our first for him. He was a top 15 pick all offseason.

I specifically remember this because I was the only one on both this board and Russell Street that hated him and wanted nothing to do with him.

Yeah, he was a top 15 pick or whatever and "fell" but looking back on it he didn't fall that much and should've fallen more.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

Jumping in here not knowing what's going on. But Upshaw wasn't over drafted. He actually fell on draft day and I remember everyone wanted to even trade up from our first for him. He was a top 15 pick all offseason.

I specifically remember this because I was the only one on both this board and Russell Street that hated him and wanted nothing to do with him.

Not the only one. I hated the pick, didn't think we desperately needed an olb at the time unless they were some exceptional pass rusher, I thought Upshaw was going to be average at best and didn't see the value.

 

I actually turned out to like the player a good bit, still don't like the pick though.

 

When we traded back I KNEW he was the target too, it seemed so typical to trade back and then get the big brutish OLB who I didn't want lol

Edited April 23, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[usmccharles]

11 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Not the only one. I hated the pick, didn't think we desperately needed an olb at the time unless they were some exceptional pass rusher, I thought Upshaw was going to be average at best and didn't see the value.

 

I actually turned out to like the player a good bit, still don't like the pick though.

 

When we traded back I KNEW he was the target too, it seemed so typical to trade back and then get the big brutish OLB who I didn't want lol

Looking back, do you think he is a 2nd round talent?

Also, i remember taking off work to watch the draft as i always do, and of course we trade out of the first.  When we made the pick i was instantly disappointed.  He always just looked out of shape...

[allblackraven]

6 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Looking back, do you think he is a 2nd round talent?

Also, i remember taking off work to watch the draft as i always do, and of course we trade out of the first.  When we made the pick i was instantly disappointed.  He always just looked out of shape...

In my mind, he definitely was worth it - 4 year starter in every game who held his own on the edge and played some pretty good run defense.

[usmccharles]

3 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

In my mind, he definitely was worth it - 4 year starter in every game who held his own on the edge and played some pretty good run defense.

I guess the value was there, but too bad we didnt actually pick someone in the first.  Cant remember who we passed on

[rmw10]

5 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I guess the value was there, but too bad we didnt actually pick someone in the first.  Cant remember who we passed on

We moved back and let the Vikings get Harrison Smith, who would have been a godsend here.  Obviously that could change the SB, but just looking at a player to player comparison, Smith would have been a huge get.

[usmccharles]

Just now, rmw10 said:

We moved back and let the Vikings get Harrison Smith, who would have been a godsend here.  Obviously that could change the SB, but just looking at a player to player comparison, Smith would have been a huge get.

Yea, but i honestly dont know if not getting upshaw would of changed the SB

[berad]

On 4/23/2016 at 6:42 PM, rmw10 said:

We moved back and let the Vikings get Harrison Smith, who would have been a godsend here.  Obviously that could change the SB, but just looking at a player to player comparison, Smith would have been a huge get.

 

On 4/23/2016 at 6:43 PM, usmccharles said:

Yea, but i honestly dont know if not getting upshaw would of changed the SB

Maybe but then consider if Smith was starting for us, Pollard might not have made those game changing hits.

[Maryland]

16 hours ago, berad said:

 

Maybe but then consider if Smith was starting for us, Pollard might not have made those game changing hits.

Plus we may not have had the Pollard-fueled mutiny in the locker room after the 'Skins game lol

[berad]

5 hours ago, Maryland said:

Plus we may not have had the Pollard-fueled mutiny in the locker room after the 'Skins game lol

True, which was probably a catalyst to greater things.