Realisticly What do you think happens to Tucker, K.O. and Upshaw this off season?

[allblackraven]

I don't get why people think $10-11mil is too much. It's the new market with perpetually increasing salary cap. Players are getting paid more than before. As versatile as KO is, it's a great buy for Raiders, who have space to burn.

[redlobster]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

If I were you, I wouldn't bet on Spriggs being available in day 2.

 

Wishful thinking on my part.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

I don't get why people think $10-11mil is too much. It's the new market with perpetually increasing salary cap. Players are getting paid more than before. As versatile as KO is, it's a great buy for Raiders, who have space to burn.

Its not $10-11 mill. Its more than $11mill/year. It's crazy when he's unproven as a LT and thats like top 5 LT money. It's more than $3mill/year more than Yanda who is the best and highest paid guard in the league gets... and he got it just last offseason. The market for a position doesnt jump $3mill/yr average in one year. 

Unless theyre banking on him being their franchise LT (theyre still trying to retain Penn) theyve grossly overpaid him. And even if they are banking on him being their LT, for what hes shown hes been overpaid.

Youre right in the sense that a guy is worth what he can get on the FA market.... but hes just absolutely blown the doors off the guard market and isnt even a top 5 guard, let alone an elite LT.

[redlobster]

13 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

I don't get why people think $10-11mil is too much. It's the new market with perpetually increasing salary cap. Players are getting paid more than before. As versatile as KO is, it's a great buy for Raiders, who have space to burn.

This. Also teams have to spend to a certain floor as well. Is he overpaid? probably but he has shown that he is a top notch guard and can play LT. Raiders have cash to burn.

[52520Andrew]

1 minute ago, redlobster said:

This. Also teams have to spend to a certain floor as well. Is he overpaid? probably but he has shown that he is a top notch guard and can play LT. Raiders have cash to burn.

Yeah I don't hate the deal as much for the Raiders who have a ton of cap space. It would not be a smart move for us to keep him at that price though

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, Edug27 said:

Ugh... O-line in the draft now?

Not necessarily. Monroe is still here, and he cant possibly continue being hurt as much as hes been the past 2 years.

And Urschel/Jensen both have proven they can be starting guards. 

It's still BPA.

[berad]

KO getting paid!

 

Rand Getlin ‏@Rand_Getlin 4m4 minutes ago

For Kelechi Osemele and the #Raiders, the deal they've agreed to in principle will pay him an $11.7M per year base with a max value of $12M.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

actually, with what KO ended up getting, I'm glad we're not making that push. We can now use that money to fill other holes.

And the way I see it, Monroe at LT (when healthy) is better than KO at LT. Urschel/Jensen both have a ton of potential at LG, and Zuttah/Urschel both are quality starting centers.

KO was obviously a much better LG than either Jensen or Urschel but chances are we werent bringing him back to play there anyways. So, we might even be better across the line than we would have been had we resigned KO (so long as Monroe is healthy) and wont have so much money tied up there.

And we might be able to get a stud pass rusher or CB now. Plus we may be able to sign a veteran guard if needed that wont show much dropoff at that position too. 

Ozzies got his Plan B - not too worried about it now.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 minute ago, berad said:

KO getting paid!

 

Rand Getlin ‏@Rand_Getlin 4m4 minutes ago

For Kelechi Osemele and the #Raiders, the deal they've agreed to in principle will pay him an $11.7M per year base with a max value of $12M.

Good for him. Hate to see him go, but my gosh thats a lot of money for a guard.

They've got it to spend though.

[berad]

2 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Good for him. Hate to see him go, but my gosh thats a lot of money for a guard.

They've got it to spend though.

Yup, that's a lot of money. It's a business at the end of the day, he put himself in position to earn that.

[Ravens4Real]

I see 2013 all over again in my eyes. Horrible O line, no push to run and Flacco running for his life. Urschel and Jensen are backups, it's just a matter of time until Hurst is our starter and Zuttah is just average if not below average. Our whole left side is now a complete ????.

FO needs to work their magic in free agency and the draft.

[redlobster]

17 minutes ago, berad said:

KO getting paid!

 

Rand Getlin ‏@Rand_Getlin 4m4 minutes ago

For Kelechi Osemele and the #Raiders, the deal they've agreed to in principle will pay him an $11.7M per year base with a max value of $12M.

All i see is , 3rd round comp!

 

Although I think he would have helped the oline tremendously, that is a sum thats way too high to pay.

[rmcjacket23]

50 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

I don't get why people think $10-11mil is too much. It's the new market with perpetually increasing salary cap. Players are getting paid more than before. As versatile as KO is, it's a great buy for Raiders, who have space to burn.

Well, yes and no.

1. If he were to be used as a Guard, and he's getting paid $11.7M like he allegedly going to be, that would put him nearly $4M more than the previous highest earning Guard, which is about a 50% increase. The salary cap isn't increasing by 50% year over year, or even probably in a five year period.

2. If its as a LT, he would be the 4th highest paid LT in the league, ahead of guys like Joe Thomas. One of the guys ahead of him is Cordy Glenn, who is playing under the franchise tag currently and will likely settle for an extension for less than that.

In my humble opinion, I didn't see enough from KO at LT to pay him top 5 LT money. My assumption is that this offer is a good $2-3M a year more than what we offered him. That's a pretty sizable difference in price.

In the grand scheme of things, you're sort of right in that the new market dictates price. This season in particular, I think you'll see a lot of teams just throwing funny money at players, because they have so much money to spend. When the Jags have nearly $90M to spend, and they probably have to spend like $40-50M of it, they can basically just sign a bunch of $10M a year players, regardless of whether they're actually "worth it". Worth, inherently, is based on whatever somebodies willing to pay for something.

If the Raiders are willing to spend close to $12M a year on KO, then so be it. Nothing we can do about it. Even if we had that money to spend, I bet we still wouldn't.

Edited March 8, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[GrimCoconut]

Sad to see KO go but I resolved myself to the possibility long ago. I held out hope we'd keep him but I can't blame him for going for the money. Raiders are trending up, too. 

[Cillmatic]

27 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

I see 2013 all over again in my eyes. Horrible O line, no push to run and Flacco running for his life. Urschel and Jensen are backups, it's just a matter of time until Hurst is our starter and Zuttah is just average if not below average. Our whole left side is now a complete ????.

FO needs to work their magic in free agency and the draft.

So you just completely missed PFF's stats showing that Jensen was playing at a top 5 LG level?

 

[allblackraven]

9 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, yes and no.

1. If he were to be used as a Guard, and he's getting paid $11.7M like he allegedly going to be, that would put him nearly $4M more than the previous highest earning Guard, which is about a 50% increase. The salary cap isn't increasing by 50% year over year, or even probably in a five year period.

2. If its as a LT, he would be the 4th highest paid LT in the league, ahead of guys like Joe Thomas. One of the guys ahead of him is Cordy Glenn, who is playing under the franchise tag currently and will likely settle for an extension for less than that.

In my humble opinion, I didn't see enough from KO at LT to pay him top 5 LT money. My assumption is that this offer is a good $2-3M a year more than what we offered him. That's a pretty sizable difference in price.

Current contract levels say you are right here but I am looking at what KO is getting as a trend setter, if you like. Very important contributing factor to this new trend is being overlooked as far as offensive linemen go - college supply of quality players ready to play in NFL from year 1 has dried up over last few years and it seems to take longer than before to coach them up. The value of guys who showed they can play at a very high level year in - year out has definitely increased imo and KO certainly is one of them. Time will tell, I guess.

[redlobster]

Richie Incognito to replace him ? lol

[Cillmatic]

1 minute ago, redlobster said:

Richie Incognito to replace him ? lol

We're still ok at LG, LT is the question mark.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, allblackraven said:

Current contract levels say you are right here but I am looking at what KO is getting as a trend setter, if you like. Very important contributing factor to this new trend is being overlooked as far as offensive linemen go - college supply of quality players ready to play in NFL from year 1 has dried up over last few years and it seems to take longer than before to coach them up. The value of guys who showed they can play at a very high level year in - year out has definitely increased imo and KO certainly is one of them. Time will tell, I guess.

I mean I sort of get it. The trend setter argument sort of matters based on his versatility... BUT... he can still only play one position at a time. If he were like a WR who also plays corner and returns kicks, then I'd buy the trend-setter notion, because that's like the rarest Pro player on the planet.

But he can't play LT and LG at the same time... he's getting paid to play one position, and its not QB, which means in the grand scheme of things he's expendable. If he plays LT, its probably not unreasonable anymore. If he plays LG, he better be close to 50% better than the best guard in the league. You can make a case he'd be the second best Guard on THIS TEAM right now, considering we already have arguably the best. So what could KO do that would make him worth $4M more than Yanda at Guard? Even like 5 years from now I don't see the price being that high.

Again, as a LT, really don't have a huge issue with the price. I'm glad my team didn't pay it, but that doesn't mean its an awful price. As a LG, I just don't see how the ROI is positive. 

[rmcjacket23]

I will say... I think the next 10-14 days will be interesting to see what happens at LT for us.

I think the wildcard in play here that maybe nobody is considering is us signing another FA LT, perhaps at a "bargain" price after the first wave of FA. Not really sure who that will be, but I think within about two weeks, we will have an idea of what the teams stance on Monroe really is.

Still entirely possible we draft Stanley and then cut Monroe, but that's two months away basically, and we can't guarantee we would get him anyway.

So I think by the time April comes around, we will know one way or another whether or not this FO thinks Monroe is a reasonable person to play LT for this team in 2016. Because once you get to about April, there's no longer a guarantee of a quality option to replace him. Everything is extremely risky after that.

[K-Dog]

I am mad!!!

He should have stayed here and given us a home town discount!!!

Of course I am kidding,  but someone always says something silly like that!!!

Can't blame a guy for chasing a payday.  Seems like he caught one. Good for him.

[ravefan52]

Good for KO, can't blame him. It sucks we couldn't get him back, but it was always unlikely. Yanda looks like a steal now though.

[redlobster]

I know this is ravens specific but these two players could have been on baltimores radar (malik less so as he was gonna get a huge deal)

 

Tamba Hali re-signing with KC (could have been a cheap look at OLB)

Malik Jackson to Jagauars

[allblackraven]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean I sort of get it. The trend setter argument sort of matters based on his versatility... BUT... he can still only play one position at a time. If he were like a WR who also plays corner and returns kicks, then I'd buy the trend-setter notion, because that's like the rarest Pro player on the planet.

But he can't play LT and LG at the same time... he's getting paid to play one position, and its not QB, which means in the grand scheme of things he's expendable. If he plays LT, its probably not unreasonable anymore. If he plays LG, he better be close to 50% better than the best guard in the league. You can make a case he'd be the second best Guard on THIS TEAM right now, considering we already have arguably the best. So what could KO do that would make him worth $4M more than Yanda at Guard? Even like 5 years from now I don't see the price being that high.

Again, as a LT, really don't have a huge issue with the price. I'm glad my team didn't pay it, but that doesn't mean its an awful price. As a LG, I just don't see how the ROI is positive. 

Yeah, I'm assuming it's a tackle money plus a peace of mind Raiders get knowing how much flexibility on the line KO gives them in case of injuries, bad form of other players, etc.

[RaineV1]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean I sort of get it. The trend setter argument sort of matters based on his versatility... BUT... he can still only play one position at a time. If he were like a WR who also plays corner and returns kicks, then I'd buy the trend-setter notion, because that's like the rarest Pro player on the planet.

But he can't play LT and LG at the same time... he's getting paid to play one position, and its not QB, which means in the grand scheme of things he's expendable. If he plays LT, its probably not unreasonable anymore. If he plays LG, he better be close to 50% better than the best guard in the league. You can make a case he'd be the second best Guard on THIS TEAM right now, considering we already have arguably the best. So what could KO do that would make him worth $4M more than Yanda at Guard? Even like 5 years from now I don't see the price being that high.

Again, as a LT, really don't have a huge issue with the price. I'm glad my team didn't pay it, but that doesn't mean its an awful price. As a LG, I just don't see how the ROI is positive. 

I have to disagree. Outside of QB, linemen are the best investment you can possibly make for your offense. And one that'll keep your franchise QB safe and help the running game is worth his weight in gold.

[GrimCoconut]

That Jackson signing by Jacksonville hurts our chances of getting a 3rd for KO. 

[jazz1988]

3 hours ago, Ravens4Real said:

I see 2013 all over again in my eyes. Horrible O line, no push to run and Flacco running for his life. Urschel and Jensen are backups, it's just a matter of time until Hurst is our starter and Zuttah is just average if not below average. Our whole left side is now a complete ????.

FO needs to work their magic in free agency and the draft.

 

Zuttah was ranked the 8th best center before he was injured last year.  I don't really think The Ravens have high faith in Hurst and with Flacco coming off  a acl tear it would would seem hard to believe  The Ravens  would not try their best to address the offensive line. 

[Gordo52]

Gut punch but not surprising. Good deal for everybody & glad we didn't pay him top 5 OL money. Unlike many other former Ravens, I expect him to continue on and be a beast.

 

Sad to see him go but he had a great stint here. Wonder what we'll get in return? A 3rd would be great.

 

Gosh I hope this means we don't reach for Stanley now.

[Gordo52]

The Kelechi Osemele deal — 5 years, $60M max — is wild. Highest paid guard in NFL history. Crazy $$. #Raiders beef up that line. ?

 

That Raiders like tho

[arnie_uk]

44 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

That Jackson signing by Jacksonville hurts our chances of getting a 3rd for KO. 

Not really. They'll likely be the 2 highest deals.