Realisticly What do you think happens to Tucker, K.O. and Upshaw this off season?

[Tank 92]

19 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Jags are on the upswing while ravens in opposite direction

Haha, ok, we'll see how that thought plays out. 

The Ravens business model has always been to pay a few key players what it takes to keep them around and to spread the rest consistently through the ranks to go tight against the cap. While it hasn't allowed for the big splash signings, that model has kept them consistently competitive and there's no reason to think it won't continue to be the case.

[balfan23]

It is clear KO will test FA, but I'm not 100% convinced that there is a team that is going to pay him top 5 or even 10 LT money, since he's not really a proven commodity at that position. While he's not going to give us some kind of a discount, there is a premium that needs to be paid sometimes to draw a player from his current team. It just will depend on how big the gap is. 

[balfan23]

I wonder what the odds are that we sign KO and that we actually keep Monroe and see if he can play out this year. If may be worth the risk, since we don't get a ton of cap space freed by releasing him. If he can play, then we have a serviceable LT and the best guards in the league. If he is his usual self and can't stay on the field, then KO makes the switch to LT and we slide Jensen or Urshel into LG. Either way, in 2017, we cut Monroe where we'll get a sizable chunk of money freed up and make KO the LT for the future. 

[JimmyBlack]

Keep KO and draft a replacement for Upshaw.

[ALPHA]

I've read that there is $7M in dead money if we cut Monroe, so it doesn't free up much cap space.

[rmw10]

3 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

I've read that there is $7M in dead money if we cut Monroe, so it doesn't free up much cap space.

Saves $2.1M, so around $1.6M due to his rule of 51 replacement.

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, Tank 92 said:

Yeah, Oz should take a page out out of the Jags book and be in the position to have the cap room to sign a guy like KO. Maybe then the Ravens could be a great team like them and not be so "mediocre".   LMAO!

Jags have young talent and salary space. Ravens have little cap space and no young pro bowlers. Plenty of busts. Ravens busines  model is failing. Payed Jimmy the scrub and high priced aging vets like Suggs that cutting saves no money against the cap. Ozzie is going to scavenger off cut players again. Sign more arringtons Clausen's, Schaubs and Lewis'.

[ALPHA]

20 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Saves $2.1M, so around $1.6M due to his rule of 51 replacement.

If we move him after June 1st it's $6.5M then add on KO's contract (maybe 8+) to our cap space, but either way it's next man up at guard, Urschel or Jensen.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, ALPHA said:

If we move him after June 1st it's $6.5M then add on KO's contract (maybe 8+) to our cap space, but either way it's next man up at guard, Urschel or Jensen.

Problem with a June 1st cut is that you don't get that money until then.  Sure, you get $6.5M in cap space, but it does you no good in the FA market.  It does have it's benefits, but I don't see his pure cap situation having any bearing on us being able to keep KO or not.

[Winchester]

5 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Haha, ok, we'll see how that thought plays out. 

The Ravens business model has always been to pay a few key players what it takes to keep them around and to spread the rest consistently through the ranks to go tight against the cap. While it hasn't allowed for the big splash signings, that model has kept them consistently competitive and there's no reason to think it won't continue to be the case.

Jags have different owner now. Ravens were winning with players drafted a decade ago or more. Ravens have not drafted any pro bowlers in last 5 or more drafts. Unless you count Mosley who made lots of tackles behind Ngata but struggled without Ngata and when asked to do more. The best thing the ravens have going for them is the best OLine in the league which about to be broken because of not enough money to sign the most punishing blocker of the group and the left tackle \Tone setter. Analysts were talking bout KO during combine and agree he is all pro caliber who has not got his recognition yet. Yanda is the leader but KO is the the anchor of that line and the most punishing drive blocker in the league!! Not to mention Yanda is going in season10 and while he was very effective he was not as dominant as before. NFL guards and all players 315 LBs or more usually decline around year10. KO is the eventual leader of that line. He is the ravens best draft pick since 2010 and he is likely walking elsewhere because of Ozzie's poor cap management and paying overrated losers like Jimmy. And structuring Suggs and Dumervil contracts so that cutting them saves no money against the cap. The defense will not be dominant for at least a couple yrs. But the offense could be the best with the best OLine and only need a stud receiver to complete the offense and maybe a top #2 as well like a breakout candidate like Quick. And draft a Doctson Thomas Fuller Treadwell or Shepherd. The offense could then have a legit shot of carrying an average defense to the Superbowl. Whatever defense you have the offense will have to win a shootout some time!! With the rule changes favoring offense even Seahawks,Panthers and Broncos were in shootouts!! The OLine was clearly dominant against some very good DLines  once KO took over at left tackle and Urschel adjusted to snapping at center. Of course it is a copycat league and everybody wants von Miller's!! However he dominated some subpar tackles in the playoffs and Superbowl. He is great do not get me wrong but will not get 3 sacks every game especially when playing elite olines!! KO is going to be a top5 left tackle and the best all around left tackle on Trent Williams Level because of his rare skill to maul as a left tackle and not just protect the QB but punish edge rushers as well. KO is far more athletic and refined since his rookie year!! What oline player around is 335lbs with a 6 Pak?? Many 330lb OLine players but full of lard!! KO is awesome!! And ravens need him to follow through with the leagues best OLine, and best and most balanced offense that mixes precision throwing and running as well as big plays while controlling the time of posession for sustained drives with the formidable OLine and weapons that will wear down opposing teams keep the defense rested. To do so the ravens need KO and a couple legit weapons on offense like a Bryan Quick and Doctson to add to Campanaro Perriman and Maxx. OLine is one thing the ravens have going!! Only need to keep it intact and add a #1 WR. But because of signing that overrated scrub Jimmy the ravens could allow the most punishing blocker in the league to walk and wreck the most dominating OLine since the Wall.

[Tank 92]

4 hours ago, Winchester said:

Jags have different owner now. Ravens were winning with players drafted a decade ago or more. Ravens have not drafted any pro bowlers in last 5 or more drafts. Unless you count Mosley who made lots of tackles behind Ngata but struggled without Ngata and when asked to do more. The best thing the ravens have going for them is the best OLine in the league which about to be broken because of not enough money to sign the most punishing blocker of the group and the left tackle \Tone setter. Analysts were talking bout KO during combine and agree he is all pro caliber who has not got his recognition yet. Yanda is the leader but KO is the the anchor of that line and the most punishing drive blocker in the league!! Not to mention Yanda is going in season10 and while he was very effective he was not as dominant as before. NFL guards and all players 315 LBs or more usually decline around year10. KO is the eventual leader of that line. 

I subscribe to the fact that most successes in the game begin and end at the core so investing there on both sides is not an option but a must.  And I like KO as much as the next guy, but am not 100% sold that he is the present and future at LT. 

I think the team has placed its best and final offer on the table and are comfortable paying him at that price to play G should he not pan out at T.  If some bottom dweller with a lot of cap jumps up and over pays so be it. Move on to finding he next option. The Ravens are not going to die as a franchise if that happens. 

Sorry, shortened your post at no particular point to save some space.  lol

[jazz1988]

3 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

I subscribe to the fact that most successes in the game begin and end at the core so investing there on both sides is not an option but a must.  And I like KO as much as the next guy, but am not 100% sold that he is the present and future at LT. 

I think the team has placed its best and final offer on the table and are comfortable paying him at that price to play G should he not pan out at T.  If some bottom dweller with a lot of cap jumps up and over pays so be it. Move on to finding he next option. The Ravens are not going to die as a franchise if that happens. 

Sorry, shortened your post at no particular point to save some space.  lol

I'm not really a fan of K.O at left tackle either but I also wouldn't be surprised if that's really what Castillo and Harbaugh want. Castillo has always favored bigger/stronger offensive tackles that can dominated with strength alone. K.O is  6'5" and 335 pound while  Eugene Monroe is 6'5" and 300 pounds. K.O is indeed athletic for a guy his size and weight but he operates with more power than Monroe.

 

K.O is actually prefect for what Castillo wants from  a offensive tackle but for the most part the offensive line isn't built to be a power/man blocking line.

Edited March 5, 2016 by jazz1988

[Tank 92]

3 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

I'm not really a fan of K.O at left tackle either but I also wouldn't be surprised if that's really what Castillo and Harbaugh want. Castillo has always favored bigger/stronger offensive tackles that can dominated with strength alone. K.O is  6'5" and 335 pound while  Eugene Monroe is 6'5 and 300 pounds. K.O is indeed athletic for a guy his size and weight but he operates with more power than Monroe.

 

K.O is actually prefect for what Castillo wants from  a offensive tackle but for the most part the offensive line isn't built to be a power/man blocking line.

I think KO could be beastly at LT, but until he plays there for an extended period his true worth remains a question mark. 

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

13 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

I think KO could be beastly at LT, but until he plays there for an extended period his true worth remains a question mark. 

I totally agree. However we both know and have seen it multiple times in past free agency periods guys getting paid huge amounts of money even if their true worth at a certain position is not known.

[Winchester]

10 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

I'm not really a fan of K.O at left tackle either but I also wouldn't be surprised if that's really what Castillo and Harbaugh want. Castillo has always favored bigger/stronger offensive tackles that can dominated with strength alone. K.O is  6'5" and 335 pound while  Eugene Monroe is 6'5" and 300 pounds. K.O is indeed athletic for a guy his size and weight but he operates with more power than Monroe.

 

K.O is actually prefect for what Castillo wants from  a offensive tackle but for the most part the offensive line isn't built to be a power/man blocking line.

Actually that is just it. The OLine is a punishing power OLine yet very athletic for zone blocking. Jensen is a monster and is far more athletic than most think!! And not even in his best shape yet. But the rest of the lines work ethic will rub off. Urschel at center is a very hard worker, very strong and working on his black belt in tae kwan do. The ravens OLine could be the only OLine in league history that is a power mauling OLine yet athletic and explosive enough to zone block!! A couple legit playmakers and the ravens are fronting a prolific explosive yet ball control offense like the NFL has never seen!! While the rest of the NFL is trying to copycat the Broncos, let the ravens be trendsetters!! That is what great teams are. Like the 2000 defense set a standard!! The OLine and offense could be the offensive version of that team. Setting trends is what takes the league by storm and wins championships!! But it all has to begin with the left tackle being a mauler and athletic QB protector!! And the center being athletic enough to zone and reach block yet strong enough to stone a nt or pocket pusher and intelligent enough to make the calls. Which the 320lb Urschel is. OLine is where the ravens have drafted well lately.Very well!!Jensen is better than many round1 guards.Let's not mess it up!!

[Davesta]

It seems like if KO test free agency, he's as good as gone. Good thing we won't be completely screwed with Monroe as a backup plan I guess. Just pray he stays healthy. I still wouldn't want to draft say a Ronnie Stanley with the 6 pick of KO leaves. Want a splash player! 

[Winchester]

Monroe is an overrated scrub. At times he is terrible!! And even his so called good play was average and serviceable. Nobody trades a franchise or even very good left tackle for late round picks. Monroe said no discounts but then learned no teams were interested in paying him big money. Eugene is not even playing more than he plays so what is the point in keeping him. It is just going to make the ravens look terrible paying him to watch games and play at an average level while KO plays at a pro bowl level for a rival team. Same can be said for Jimmy scrub When KO dominates for a rival team while Jimmy looks like a pitcher pointing at fly balls going over him. I actually like KO better than Stanley. It is very hard to replace a Left tackle athletic enough to protect Joe cool while strong and nasty enough to maul!! Besides I would prefer going into the draft looking for weapons to go with the Elite OLine as well as edge rushers and 3 down ilbs than trying to fill a hole at left tackle. BTW I'm really liking Doctson and will Fuller as well as Shepherd. Only prob with Shepherd is he is very similar to Campanaro who may not play 14 games or more. But if Campanaro can not play Shepherd is the fittest slot. Doctson and Shepherd would complete what should be the leagues best offense and offensive Line

[usmccharles]

@winchester - other than KO,  do we have any non-scrubs? 

[757RavensFan]

3 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

@winchester - other than KO,  do we have any non-scrubs? 

Pay attention dude, Campanaro is the best receiver we have per Winchester. 

[Tank 92]

5 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

@winchester - other than KO,  do we have any non-scrubs? 

"yes, but they are mediocre non scrubs"

[usmccharles]

12 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Pay attention dude, Campanaro is the best receiver we have per Winchester. 

Actually he is better he Edelman... 

[rmcjacket23]

The moment somebody starts referencing Pro Bowlers as if that's some sort of barometer for a good player, I no longer take said persons opinions seriously.

[rmw10]

9 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The moment somebody starts referencing Pro Bowlers as if that's some sort of barometer for a good player, I no longer take said persons opinions seriously.

It took you this long?

[Winchester]

49 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The moment somebody starts referencing Pro Bowlers as if that's some sort of barometer for a good player, I no longer take said persons opinions seriously.

That is why I said pro bowl candidate and talk which means respected as one of the better players on defense. You say that now of course when ravens barely have any. But when the team has 6 pro bowlers everybody is shouting it out. You included. And yeah there are players in the pro bowl that do not deserve to be there while some great players are ignored. But nobody can make believe that the pro bowl is not mostly the games best players!! To say it is totally irrelevant is football denial and can not take anybody seriously that believes the pro bowl is not made up of mostly the games elite. Quite sure the Homers will give that statement a trillion likes!! With ravens not having many pro bowlers.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Winchester

[rmcjacket23]

25 minutes ago, Winchester said:

That is why I said pro bowl candidate and talk which means respected as one of the better players on defense. You say that now of course when ravens barely have any. But when the team has 6 pro bowlers everybody is shouting it out. You included. And yeah there are players in the pro bowl that do not deserve to be there while some great players are ignored. But nobody can make believe that the pro bowl is not mostly the games best players!! To say it is totally irrelevant is football denial and can not take anybody seriously that believes the pro bowl is not made up of mostly the games elite. Quite sure the Homers will give that statement a trillion likes!! With ravens not having many pro bowlers.

I officially challenge you to quote me one time where I give any credence to the Pro Bowl being relevant whatsoever. If you actually believe any of the BS you come up with, now would be the time to actually back it up.

Any All Star game that considers fan voting a critical element of it is a mockery. 

[Winchester]

19 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I officially challenge you to quote me one time where I give any credence to the Pro Bowl being relevant whatsoever. If you actually believe any of the BS you come up with, now would be the time to actually back it up.

Any All Star game that considers fan voting a critical element of it is a mockery. 

Didn't you credit Mosley for making the pro bowl as a rookie?? And yes fan voting is ridiculous!! But nonetheless the pro bowl is usually the games elite for most part with some exceptions.  To say it is totally irrelevant is total  BS. It is not irrelevant Just because Ozzie has not drafted many as of late. Heath Evans should decide on the pro bowl team every year.He really knows his stuff!!lol

Edited March 5, 2016 by Winchester

[Winchester]

35 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

I agree with what you are saying. Keep the young strength of the team the strength. Hopefully the offer ko something long term. In which case they certainly can compete to keep him. 

Definitely! My opinion ravens should of traded Dumervil and SS for draft picks when it was evident the ravens were not going to the playoffs. I would say Suggs to but he will be 34 this coming season and was sidelined with an Achilles. Even without the Injury he has no trade value with that contract and his age.  I would cut Webb Forsett Zuttah to clear money for KO  Wagner and young players on team and free agency.

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, Winchester said:

Didn't you credit Mosley for making the pro bowl as a rookie?? And yes fan voting is ridiculous!! But nonetheless the pro bowl is usually the games elite for most part with some exceptions.  To say it is totally irrelevant is total  BS. It is not irrelevant Just because Ozzie has not drafted many as of late. Heath Evans should decide on the pro bowl team every year.He really knows his stuff!!lol

Nope I didnt. I couldn't tell you which players on this team have made the Pro Bowl or havent, because, well, it's the Pro Bowl.

The "some exceptions" aspect became the majority many, many years ago.

It's irrelevant because fans vote on it, half the players invited don't show up, and they have this thing called an All-Pro team which is an actual reflection of quality players.

If we never had another Pro Bowler on this team, it'd mean nothing, because that has zero to do with winning football games.

Edited March 6, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[usmccharles]

42 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Nope I didnt. I couldn't tell you which players on this team have made the Pro Bowl or havent, because, well, it's the Pro Bowl.

The "some exceptions" aspect became the majority many, many years ago.

It's irrelevant because fans vote on it, half the players invited don't show up, and they have this thing called an All-Pro team which is an actual reflection of quality players.

If we never had another Pro Bowler on this team, it'd mean nothing, because that has zero to do with winning football games.

I wonder how man all-pro's we have had compared to pro-bowlers 

[757RavensFan]

4 hours ago, Winchester said:

Definitely! My opinion ravens should of traded Dumervil and SS for draft picks when it was evident the ravens were not going to the playoffs. I would say Suggs to but he will be 34 this coming season and was sidelined with an Achilles. Even without the Injury he has no trade value with that contract and his age.  I would cut Webb Forsett Zuttah to clear money for KO  Wagner and young players on team and free agency.

LOL @ trade Steve Smith. I guess you missed the part when he stated before the season started that he was retiring.  Trading SS was not an option.