[News] Late For Work 1/6: Will Lardarius Webb Accept Less Money? Ravens Coaches Leaving?

[rmcjacket23]

It is the players fault for not living up to their contract. It is the Front Office's fault for over paying them in the first place. What you are describing sounds more like buyer's remorse to me.

Their contracts are binding. We have the right to release him but will still have to pay him the bulk of his contract. That would allow another team to make a low offer to him while he is paid by us for leaving. Happens all the time.

Yes, bad contracts are created by bad play. Much like buying a used car that runs great the first year but has constant issues after that. You don't go back to the seller and renegotiate. It is the responsibility of the buyer (FO) to do your due diligence before making the purchase.

But the problem is... its 100% impossible to determine whether you "overpaid" for a player until you get future information... i,e. watch them play poorly on that new deal. How exactly do you go about fixing that problem? The answer, realistically, is you can't.

 

They also don't have to pay them the bulk of the contract. In most cases, the only amounts of the contract that the team is actually required to pay them is the guaranteed portion. After that, year to year. 

 

In Webb's case, we don't owe him another dime. If we cut him tomorrow, he will get nothing more from us, despite his contract dictating that he is owed $11M over the next two years. We wouldn't have to pay him a dime of that, because none of that money is guaranteed.

 

Heck, we could cut Flacco right now and not owe him another dime either. He signed a $120M deal, and we can get out of it with nothing else owed after paying only $62M of it, or roughly half.

 

That's how NFL deals are structured. And while I agree that its the buyers responsibility to do due diligence, its kind of hard to argue that they didn't. There weren't too many people I know of complaining about Webb's deal back in 2012 when he signed it. I did hear a ton of people complaining about the idea of NOT resigning him though.

 

That's the general problem I have. Too much hindsight analysis. Too much of playing the "that was a terrible deal" card only AFTER they get to see the deal play out. The FO doesn't even remotely have the luxury of hopping in a time machine and seeing how the future plays out. 

[balfan23]

In a year where I have to believe we are reviewing our defensive coaches performances and considering potential replacements, we really can't afford to have the quality coaches poached. I really hope that doesn't happen.

[Kwilliams84]

I highly doubt Jalen Ramsey will fall to the 6th pick in the draft. Draft in the 1st round cb Vernon Hargreaves 2nd round go with Wr Josh Docston 3rd round go with a pass rusher 4th round go with another cb like Will Redmond or Sutton and resign K.O. to be left takcle bring back Upshaw cheap because he didnt ever produce a pass rush and bring Tucker back and cutt Pitta due to health, cut M. Brown, cut Monroe, cut Arrington, reconstruct Webbs contract, reconstruct Flaccos contract, cut Forsett like the dude but allen and west combined are cheaper than him and they make a good 1-2 punch.

[ellicottraven]

I'm waiting in great anticipation about how we manage the incredibly limited cap space we have. With both Ngata and Rice off the books, it doesn't really help that the other salaries that were low have gone up substantially. Case in point - Joe Flacco who went from 14.5M to 28.5M and several other players as well. This is a pivotal year to get back to being a playoff team. If we don't do it this year, we run the risk of becoming comfortable as a losing franchise which the fans cannot and will not have. So, I think the time has come for the front office to make bold moves this year and eat up all the dead money and not push it to next year with post June 1st cuts. Get rid of all the players that are contributing less on the field but cost more. Just do it and be ruthless about it. Don't let one single player hold the entire franchise hostage no matter who he is.

[Raven_Don]

@WNC-Raven... I agree with your assessment up to a point... When Webb was handed is contract at the time he was on the verge of being a lock down corner... his upside was great... then he got hurt... then hurt again... then again... so at the time I could see why they were locking him up... its not like he was injury prone coming out of college... same thing with Pitta.. the brass had seen life without Pitta and didn't like what they saw... they took the advice of the doctors that Pitta would be good to go and all signs pointed in that direction he end 2013 like a boss and began 2014 as the ultimate security blanket... then boom down he went again... Pitta was just unlucky in that regard the chances of him aggravating his hip injury couldn't be that high... I find it hard to believe that the Ravens have a nice track record of that... that mantra of right player right price has proven true.. Ngata didn't perform to the same level he did last year... neither did T. Smith... McPhee had a solid year but you can't pay everyone... Sometimes the football doesn't bounce your way sometimes... this just happen to be that year for us... no one stays great forever... the difference is good teams find ways to turn it around quickly... I am confident that the Ravens will do what they do best... Pass rush was the biggest reason the defense was struggling... as the year went on the D greatly improved... we need a guy to rush the passer... and the turnover thing was just a lack of focus... there were so many times the ball was thrown right to guys and they just dropped it.. there are six that immediately come to mind... and penalties that extended drives...all the turnovers... smh... don't get me started on that fiasco.... but we weren't as bad as the record indicates... were we SB bound...maybe not but we should have made some noise... even with the all the injuries we gave ourselves a chance to win..but without fail we shot ourselves in the foot... if we can clean some things up... get younger at some positions... I feel we will be right as rain...

[JetLife94]

The last thing we need is for a bad hire like Chris Hewitt, for either the LB coaching position, or the defensive line. Pagano should find a candidate elsewhere!

[PurpleDoc]

Pagano...please, take Pees!

[Raven'evermore]

  I think that Pagano going after Monachino might be just what was needed for Harbs and Ozzie to finally get rid of Pees.  That is if they treat it like a business decision.  On the other hand, if Harbs wants to stick to the 'I'm not going to stand in the way of my coaches mentality', then we're screwed and in my opinion would make his own judgment look questionable.  I said questionable.  Not necessarily wrong.  BTW: I'm actually glad that Pags seems to be keeping his HC job.  Let's see what he can do with hopefully a better GM, whoever that may be.

[757RavensFan]

if your talking about Ramsey we certainly haven't missed out on him..he is very much in range at pick 6. And I'm not so sure he'd be the smartest pick anyway. Bosa and Tunsil are pretty much the only prospects we played ourselves out of.

 

IMO, it all hinges on CLE at #2.  If the Browns take a QB w/ their pick then there's a chance we get Ramsey.  Personally, I think Dallas will do us in again (like they did w/ Dez Bryant) and take Ramsey if they don't take Miles Jack. 

Edited January 6, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[WNC-Raven]

In Webb's case, we don't owe him another dime. If we cut him tomorrow, he will get nothing more from us, despite his contract dictating that he is owed $11M over the next two years. We wouldn't have to pay him a dime of that, because none of that money is guaranteed.

 

Heck, we could cut Flacco right now and not owe him another dime either. He signed a $120M deal, and we can get out of it with nothing else owed after paying only $62M of it, or roughly half.

 

I stand corrected. I didnt realize we could cut Webb and Flacco and not have any dead money. That changes my line of thinking a bit. If they have already been payed their "fair" amount I guess forcing Webb to take a substantial pay cut more in line with a safety and cutting him if he refuses has some appeal.

[sami]

isn't that hire for the Browns (DePodesta) just like the movie about them?

[RavensDieHard21]

Ted Monachino must be kept here! he has been so valuable to this team and if needed, promote the guy!

[RavensDieHard21]

If webby moves to FS, I am interested to know if Ramsey was there, would we take him? his coverage is good, but not lock down in man coverage, but playing zone and lurking the secondary he's a pure play maker. I think in this years draft we should double down of corners and pass rushers. I'd like to land any combination in the first three rounds of Ramsey, VH3, Desmond King, Alexander from Clemson, pair that with a defensive monster like Nkimdiche, Leonard Floyd, Calhoun, and we are looking pretty darn good for the future.

[Purple Hazard]

With Ramsey it depends if you see him as a corner or safety. I have seen mocks where people argue that the Ravens should take a true corner like Mackensie Alexander instead of Ramsey. I wouldn't mind taking either of them because we need help at corner and safety.

[steelcityraven]

2 Things... 1. Webby has been the ultimate team player. He has taken pay cuts, he has changed positions... he has done what ever has been asked of him. There are not enough Ladarius Webbs in the NFL! 2. Ray Lewis's greatness extends far beyond the football field!

[steelcityraven]

Even though nothing is guaranteed for Webb... I really believe, that if we cut him today... it will not be long for him to catch on with another team...In fact... his versatility (his ability to play both S and CB and particularly nickel CB) he becomes more valuable)... I didn't say that he will command more money just that he will be more coveted! There are some teams looking for a CB, some looking for a versatile CB (can play inside or outside). We can do both. Some teams will be looking for a FS and Webby can do that also... The fact that he can do multiple things means that more teams can find a value in him... and even though we don't owe him a dime... He knows he can get paid elsewhere! Yet he seems to be willing to do whatever the team asks of him.... Gotta love this guy!

[Rave-O]

We see coaches we hate to see go, do so. When you have good coaches, that's what happens. We had to see the likes of Marvin Lewis, Jake Del Rio, Mike Smith, Rex Ryan, Pagano, Teryl Austin, Kubiak leave us for better positions over the years. This is a testament to the quality coach selection and training the Ravens have. I hope this really bad season somewhat hid the fact that Trestman did a really good job, and so he will not have HC interviews...

I agree but what does that say about Pees nobody ever wants him.

[January J]

January J, I am willing to bet anything Jalen Ramsey will NOT be there at #6. And you could only wish we ended up with his caliber of play with our first pick. Bosa = meh. Tunsil I don't know enough about him to comment. Now we have to wait and see. We will revisit this topic in 4 months. Enjoy the playoffs buddy.

  

I highly doubt Jalen Ramsey will fall to the 6th pick in the draft. Draft in the 1st round cb Vernon Hargreaves 2nd round go with Wr Josh Docston 3rd round go with a pass rusher 4th round go with another cb like Will Redmond or Sutton and resign K.O. to be left takcle bring back Upshaw cheap because he didnt ever produce a pass rush and bring Tucker back and cutt Pitta due to health, cut M. Brown, cut Monroe, cut Arrington, reconstruct Webbs contract, reconstruct Flaccos contract, cut Forsett like the dude but allen and west combined are cheaper than him and they make a good 1-2 punch.

I suggest that y'all should take a look at some of the current mocks. Of course things change after the combine and what not...but that could also mean he falls even farther. Entirely possible he falls to us- and entirely possible we pass on him or trade back. He is an extremely risky pick.

[January J]

IMO, it all hinges on CLE at #2.  If the Browns take a QB w/ their pick then there's a chance we get Ramsey.  Personally, I think Dallas will do us in again (like they did w/ Dez Bryant) and take Ramsey if they don't take Miles Jack.

and then we grab Stanley or Treadwell and they may have actually done us a favor. I don't think Ramsey is the answer. Not very disciplined , takes way too many risks and has no ball skills. In other words more of the same. But il save all the draft talk for the draft forum

[steelcityraven]

I hate the fact that Jax is picking right before us (with the same record as us and beating us in head to head comp). Jax also needs to desperately improve their defensive secondary. I think that Ramsey will make it past Dallas but I don't see him making it past Jax! Hargraves will still be their for us if we want to go CB however (Stanely OT- Treadwell WR- Ramsey CB- HArgraves CB or Shaq Lawson DE)....I think no matter which direction we go there... we head into 2016 much upgraded from 2015!

[stixfix69]

Never worried about Cleveland, they have picked top 10 for the last 20 years and they find a way to wreck that pick.....CB from FL got lit up in the bowl game, he was outplayed by a bigger more physical WR, so that is a obvious concern....Hate saying this, but those Bama DB's looked pretty good, Ole'Miss had some solid CB play...All i know is i'm glad i don't have to make the pick so many good players, and you get that 1 shot in the first....Picking down in the first was always easier as players picked 20th on down were tweener picks, players who could be a high 2nd rounder...

[The Greek]

monachino for dc. open your eyes harbs or please steve step in and tell harbs that he has not been impressed with the defense the past few years and want the chaos back

[The Greek]

the wild card in the draft would be dallas drafting a qb which they need to take over for 35 year old and often injured romo. if that happens and the browns draft one as well than it bumps players of need to us. i personally believe we draft tunsil if he falls to us unless we find a way to sign osemele. i just hope the front office drafts for need and not bpa like they usually do. cb and pass rusher our the biggest needs imo followed by o-line, ilb because it looks like arthur brown is a bust and daryl smith is showing his age.

[AsianRice]

We shouldn't let Ted leave for Colts DC job; get rid of Pees and offer Ted the promotion...

[OzzieBisciotti]

Telling: %u201CThis has been the most neglected position on the defense,%u201D Hensley wrote. %u201CThe Ravens have selected a cornerback in the first three rounds only once in the past six drafts."

[The Mom Gene]

Defense finished #2 in the league the second half of the season... hmmm.. no wonder they want our guys.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/24989/ravens-remarkably-finish-as-nfls-second-best-defense-in-second-half-of-season

[fusuymada]

I think Ramsey is a no brainer and if we have to move up to get him, then we have to. Also, I don't think our coaching issues are at the front line and linebackers, it is in the secondary so it is in our interest to try to keep those guys until we can find someone who can coach up our back end on defense. Had we had a slightly better secondary, and a better performance from our O-line this year, those 12 games we lost by less than a score would have only been 4 or 5 which means we could have been 9-7 or 10-6 if you count the game we lost that we didn't (Jacksonville).

[Bat-mite]

I know a lot of people don't like Ray Lewis for a variety of reasons, many thinking he got away with murder. But I believe he is a man who made his mistakes, learned from them, and turned a corner, and now he wants to give back. If everyone would do that, I think it would make for a better world.

[rmcjacket23]

I stand corrected. I didnt realize we could cut Webb and Flacco and not have any dead money. That changes my line of thinking a bit. If they have already been payed their "fair" amount I guess forcing Webb to take a substantial pay cut more in line with a safety and cutting him if he refuses has some appeal.

Well, technically that's not true either.

 

We will certainly have "dead money" from a salary cap perspective if we cut these guys (a lot actually), but from a pure how much the player is going to get paid perspective, we owe them nothing.

 

We still have prorated bonuses for these guys that we have to recognize if we cut them, but we wouldn't actually have to pay them anything.

[ellicottraven]

I'm worried about losing the 2 really good coaches we have on defense Ted Monachino and Brooks. Between Pees, Monachino and Brooks we have 3 really good and able defensive minds. So, we need to hold on to them at any cost. However, having said that, I am very skeptical about our secondary coach. Maybe it is time to replace him.