Who should we take at #6?

[Wildabeast88]

I'm seeing Larry Fitzgerald.

I would be thrilled if he was either

[Willbacker]

Requesting ban

 

 

No receiver is worth a top 15 pick in this draft. 

Both the LTs are gonna be gone more than likely and the corners don't seem all that great to me why not WR. Get the best one.

[Sizzlebshu]

Both the LTs are gonna be gone more than likely and the corners don't seem all that great to me why not WR. Get the best one.

because treadwell isn't worth it and there are better players.

[Cillmatic]

because treadwell isn't worth it and there are better players.

Like?

[codizzle]

So treadwell is Jesus?

[DomMcRaven]

So treadwell is Jesus?

The more people like him, the more likely we'll be disappointed when some team picks him before us/we pass on him. 

Edited January 6, 2016 by DomMcRaven

[JoeyFlex5]

because treadwell isn't worth it and there are better players.

please, mr board cynic, tell us who you would take over treadwell that will realistically be there and what your problem is with treadwell as a player

Edited January 6, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[Sizzlebshu]

So treadwell is Jesus?

Careful mod 3 will warn you for that Edited January 6, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

please, mr board cynic, tell us who you would take over treadwell that will realistically be there and what your problem is with treadwell as a player

I can answer this question. Because he's not an elite level athlete or doesn't have a particularly elite skill set ala AJ Green, Julio Jones, Sammy Watkins(who is an elite level athlete fwiw), Mike Evans(who's a physical monster), ODB(who's got elite skills).

 

Yeah. But that doesn't mean that much to me tbh. Treadwell has a lot going for him. Treadwell's all around game is pretty freaking good, and he's not exactly lacking in the athleticism department either. He's not super fast, but he's got good speed.

 

In a lackluster class this is a safe pick with a high ceiling. Like, if you tell me he's going to be an Alshon Jeffery type. Then cool, that's worth a top 5 pick. Jeffery is a beast.  

 

That said. I would rather have Stanley if he's there. Which he won't be. And I don't like Ramsey, or Ogbah, or others after more scouting. 

[Sizzlebshu]

please, mr board cynic, tell us who you would take over treadwell that will realistically be there and what your problem is with treadwell as a player

How about i do you one better? Instead of just vetoing every player later with he wont be there why do t you pick the five that are off the board now and ill tell you

[Sizzlebshu]

I can answer this question. Because he's not an elite level athlete or doesn't have a particularly elite skill set ala AJ Green, Julio Jones, Sammy Watkins(who is an elite level athlete fwiw), Mike Evans(who's a physical monster), ODB(who's got elite skills).

 

Yeah. But that doesn't mean that much to me tbh. Treadwell has a lot going for him. Treadwell's all around game is pretty freaking good, and he's not exactly lacking in the athleticism department either. He's not super fast, but he's got good speed.

 

In a lackluster class this is a safe pick with a high ceiling. Like, if you tell me he's going to be an Alshon Jeffery type. Then cool, that's worth a top 5 pick. Jeffery is a beast.  

 

That said. I would rather have Stanley if he's there. Which he won't be. And I don't like Ramsey, or Ogbah, or others after more scouting. 

I don't think he has a high ceiling. I think he is a decent floor, low ceiling player. That doesn't mean he is a bust or anything like that, but he's not a difference maker either. 

 

He isn' an above average athlete as you pointed out. He reminds me of Jalen Strong in that his below average route running skills probably mask a better athlete than he seems, but for a guys that is already not an elite athlete this isn't good. He doesn't separate nearly enough and I've seen a lot of manufactured production (but I can't blame him for the offense he runs, I can only evaluate what he did well/didn't do well). Super physical guy tho. Worth noting that Hargreeves essentially erased him (5-44). That would normally take nothing away and be a credit to Hargreeves but for a guy who wins on size and physicality, when you have supposedly 30lbs and 5 inches on a guy... Also it's not like treadwell was shadowed by him all game either so it makes you wonder what happened. 

[JoeyFlex5]

How about i do you one better? Instead of just vetoing every player later with he wont be there why do t you pick the five that are off the board now and ill tell you

okay then, lets say... tunsil, bosa, 1 qb, ramsey, stanley, goes top 5. 

 

if the top 5 plays out that way, it comes to down to treadwell and buckner for me, im simply not a fan of taking any db as high as 6th overall, and as rarely as we get such a high pick, we just cant afford to bust. even if treadwell isnt "value" because he doesnt run a 4.3 or whatever, that doesnt mean he is a bad pick, he is still a very good wr and if the top 5 were to play out that way he would appear to be the safest pick, he is the most polished and pro ready player, he is a great fit for what we need, and even if he doesnt have desean jackson wheels or julio jones leaping ability, he is still a good sized wr with more than enough athleticism to perform at the next level, his physicality, ball tracking, awareness, vice grip hands, body control, and just general wr skills including a savvy route game, make him a great and relatively safe option for us. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I don't think he has a high ceiling. I think he is a decent floor, low ceiling player. That doesn't mean he is a bust or anything like that, but he's not a difference maker either. 

 

He isn' an above average athlete as you pointed out. He reminds me of Jalen Strong in that his below average route running skills probably mask a better athlete than he seems, but for a guys that is already not an elite athlete this isn't good. He doesn't separate nearly enough and I've seen a lot of manufactured production (but I can't blame him for the offense he runs, I can only evaluate what he did well/didn't do well). Super physical guy tho. Worth noting that Hargreeves essentially erased him (5-44). That would normally take nothing away and be a credit to Hargreeves but for a guy who wins on size and physicality, when you have supposedly 30lbs and 5 inches on a guy... Also it's not like treadwell was shadowed by him all game either so it makes you wonder what happened. 

Every player has a bad game and Charles Tillman one day shut down Megatron despite Calvin having a clear physical advantage. VH3 is just technically sound. 

 

Jaelen Strong? That overrated mess of a player people fell in love with despite the fact that he never EVER separated and only relied on his physicality and had overrated hands. Really? That's who Treadwell reminds you of? 

 

He looks like a 4.5 player on film. We don't need a burner. We have that already in Perriman. The burner thing also helps out with the separation problem. Once he improves as a route runner I think the separation thing will come easier. 

 

Yeah, Treadwell's route running does need some work. But he's not as bad off as you claim. 

 

I mean.. He's similar to Mike Evans as a prospect(in terms of his concerns. Not as a player) in a sense. Limited to poor route runner with potential problems with separation despite being a good athlete with good hands and physicality. He needs to develop his route running and if he does then he probably becomes a very good WR at the next level. 

 

Mike Evans turned out to be a good pick so far. Two good seasons(despite him having one of the worst games I've seen an NFL WR play. Bad days happen). 

 

I think you're underrating Treadwell. He's not an elite talent but he's certainly a very good one. And in a terrible draft.. Yeah. 

[JoeyFlex5]

and treadwell isnt even a bad route runner, hes pretty savvy and has a general understanding of how to play db's, i dont think its any coincidence that he is always catching the ball while the db has their backs turned to him, he sells it really well, he has a knack for making a db turn his hips prematurely, impressive considering his top end speed is decent at best, and he takes advantage of this really well. he can come to a stop pretty quickly and pursues the ball with some really fierce tenacity, and makes very decisive cuts and breaks. 

 

he plays with savvy and plays with authority and has reasonably good athleticism, certainly enough to succeed, plain and simple you dont need to be 6'5" and you dont need 4.3 speed and you dont need to run routes like derrick mason to succeed, you can get a pro bowl caliber wr who has a respectable blend of all these traits. if you are dead set on one specific breed of wr then thats your prerogative, but just because you would prefer an athletic freak like julio jones or because you expect every wr to be as refined as amari cooper, doesnt mean that a player who doesnt live up to those standards isnt good. 

[GrimCoconut]

Right now I have Treadwell as #5 but that may change once I get deeper in evaluating prospects. I usually just watch players and their seasons and go from there. I'm quite a bit behind this year in that regard.

We'll see if my opinion on him changes as I watch others, which it usually does. With that said, Treadwell reminds me more of Jeffery than Strong.

[JoeyFlex5]

Right now I have Treadwell as #5 but that may change once I get deeper in evaluating prospects. I usually just watch players and their seasons and go from there. I'm quite a bit behind this year in that regard.

We'll see if my opinion on him changes as I watch others, which it usually does. With that said, Treadwell reminds me more of Jeffery than Strong.

yeah strong is a comparison that is just so far off base that i dont believe were watching the same player, even at the peak of his hype it was known that strongs route game was even worse than mike evans, he couldnt separate even slightly from college db's, he couldnt even chop step to make a cut, hell the dude could barely slow down. treadwell is far more polished and it doesnt take an expert to see the difference. 

 

unrelated to this, but related to the topic in general... 

tennessee takes tunsil, cleveland takes lynch, chargers take robinson/ramsey, cowboys take goff, jax takes vh3.... who would we choose between bosa and stanley? and how badly would we all want to just jump off a bridge if our choice is a massive bust and the other is an all pro

[GrimCoconut]

yeah strong is a comparison that is just so far off base that i dont believe were watching the same player, even at the peak of his hype it was known that strongs route game was even worse than mike evans, he couldnt separate even slightly from college db's, he couldnt even chop step to make a cut, hell the dude could barely slow down. treadwell is far more polished and it doesnt take an expert to see the difference.

unrelated to this, but related to the topic in general...

tennessee takes tunsil, cleveland takes lynch, chargers take robinson/ramsey, cowboys take goff, jax takes vh3.... who would we choose between bosa and stanley? and how badly would we all want to just jump off a bridge if our choice is a massive bust and the other is an all pro

I think Chargers would take Buckner or Ramsey. Just need to throw that out there lol.

Bosa. I love Stanley but it would have to be pass rusher. He's disruptive and could be a bust just like any other prospect, but there are others I really like at LT after Stanley. I only really like Ngakoue atm after Bosa. This is due to value, though. I must state that. There are other good pass rushers but they have concerns of which I don't have as much with Ngakoue.

Edited January 6, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[usmccharles]

I still cant get on this Bosa wagon, i dont know why...but i enjoy reading your guy's asessments

[GrimCoconut]

I still cant get on this Bosa wagon, i dont know why...but i enjoy reading your guy's asessments

Why not? Curious to hear your reason. Surely you have a reason. Just got that feeling?

[JoeyFlex5]

I think Chargers would take Buckner or Ramsey. Just need to throw that out there lol.

Bosa. I love Stanley but it would have to be pass rusher. He's disruptive and could be a bust just like any other prospect, but there are others I really like at LT after Stanley. I only really like Ngakoue atm after Bosa. This is due to value, though. I must state that. There are other good pass rushers but they have concerns of which I don't have as much with Ngakoue.

i love bosa, i love stanley, ive accepted that tunsil is a fairytale and that stanley is honestly not that far behind him, i believe fully that LT is our biggest need, however.... the impact that bosa could have on our defense moving forward... but he also has much more bust factor than stanley and that would worry me. i would hate to be the gm trying to make this choice because i simply wouldnt know which way to go. 

 

and for the chargers, yea i left buckners name out by mistake, i think if a'shawn robinson declares then its between him, buck, and ramsey, but they could really want a LT as well, so its a toss up

[usmccharles]

Why not? Curious to hear your reason. Surely you have a reason. Just got that feeling?

Basically.  Ill be honest i dont watch college ball like most of you, i come in the draft section and read about what everyone thinks then i go watch game tapes of certain players so i can at least form my own opinion, i have no problem admitting when i dont know something. 

 

No doubt he is disruptive and has a high motor, but it seems most of his plays come from a bull rush style, splitting up the middle, speed on the outside.  Will he be able to do that to NFL lineman, i dont know what level of competition he played against as far as lineman go.  Like i said im not to familar with college, but i do just have an odd feeling, like hes this years massive hype train.  With good reason, he looks like a beast.  Just makes me nervous when everyone thinks hes the cant miss guy, i guess.  (Sorry my response is spotty, trying to leave work)

 

Care to give me some cliffs on what you see ?

[JoeyFlex5]

Basically.  Ill be honest i dont watch college ball like most of you, i come in the draft section and read about what everyone thinks then i go watch game tapes of certain players so i can at least form my own opinion, i have no problem admitting when i dont know something. 

 

No doubt he is disruptive and has a high motor, but it seems most of his plays come from a bull rush style, splitting up the middle, speed on the outside.  Will he be able to do that to NFL lineman, i dont know what level of competition he played against as far as lineman go.  Like i said im not to familar with college, but i do just have an odd feeling, like hes this years massive hype train.  With good reason, he looks like a beast.  Just makes me nervous when everyone thinks hes the cant miss guy, i guess.  (Sorry my response is spotty, trying to leave work)

 

Care to give me some cliffs on what you see ?

yes, and he plays in the conference closest to the NFL in terms of offensive line and offensive systems. 

 

big 10 and SEC players are just hard for me to deny unless i see obvious bust in them. if bosa came from the pac10 or ACC or even the big12 i would be concerned(see, ogbah), but i think his level of competition and the fact that he faces triple teams regularly and still produces is very special. 

 

while i understand concerns over bosa, and i myself have some, mostly about his work ethic, which btw i think is overblown, when you consider all the factors, him dominating a championship run and winning it all, being the best defender in college football, and the fact that he took this year to round out his skillset and has done so successfully, you cant really blame him if he seems like his motor has fallen back, hes trying to play smart football this year and i applaud that. the kids a game wrecker in the run game and in the pass rush, and he has the athleticism to slim down 10 lbs and become a legit 3 down OLB as well, hes very smart, very aware, and plays with good overall technique.

Edited January 6, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

The dream pick would be Bosa with Dumervil taking a step back and with the Suggs injury, but I wouldn't mind taking Ramsey or Treadwell. 

Edited January 6, 2016 by EnVy_CaLiBeR

[GrimCoconut]

Basically. Ill be honest i dont watch college ball like most of you, i come in the draft section and read about what everyone thinks then i go watch game tapes of certain players so i can at least form my own opinion, i have no problem admitting when i dont know something.

No doubt he is disruptive and has a high motor, but it seems most of his plays come from a bull rush style, splitting up the middle, speed on the outside. Will he be able to do that to NFL lineman, i dont know what level of competition he played against as far as lineman go. Like i said im not to familar with college, but i do just have an odd feeling, like hes this years massive hype train. With good reason, he looks like a beast. Just makes me nervous when everyone thinks hes the cant miss guy, i guess. (Sorry my response is spotty, trying to leave work)

Care to give me some cliffs on what you see ?

Yeah I've seen similar to you with Bosa. . I'd say my biggest concern is his burst and first step. It's not that his first step is bad. I'm just wondering whether he'll have success early against NFL players. I think he'll need more development than people realize. I see him as a far better McPhee.

I think he'll need a good mentor and coach. He's highly disruptive as a pass rusher and quite good as a run defender. He'll need work in coverage but it's rare to have a guy ready to go there at the position.

His bend around the edge could be better and he sometimes plays a little high. I don't like tall pass rushers much. That's my personal preference. I like my pass rushers to be close to 6-3. But that's another story altogether. Lol

[GrimCoconut]

i love bosa, i love stanley, ive accepted that tunsil is a fairytale and that stanley is honestly not that far behind him, i believe fully that LT is our biggest need, however.... the impact that bosa could have on our defense moving forward... but he also has much more bust factor than stanley and that would worry me. i would hate to be the gm trying to make this choice because i simply wouldnt know which way to go.

and for the chargers, yea i left buckners name out by mistake, i think if a'shawn robinson declares then its between him, buck, and ramsey, but they could really want a LT as well, so its a toss up

Buckner reminds me a lot of Campbell from Arizona but I think he's so talented he could play 4-3 DE. He'll be perfect for San Diego imo.

As for Bosa and Stanley, I see your point but I can't pass on a pass rusher like Bosa. That's really hard for me to do. It's true that pass rushers typically can go anywhere, I think we have a better chance at finding a quality LT in the second, third, or fourth round than I do pass rusher. This tear has a great LT class imo.

[usmccharles]

yes, and he plays in the conference closest to the NFL in terms of offensive line and offensive systems. 

 

big 10 and SEC players are just hard for me to deny unless i see obvious bust in them. if bosa came from the pac10 or ACC or even the big12 i would be concerned(see, ogbah), but i think his level of competition and the fact that he faces triple teams regularly and still produces is very special. 

 

while i understand concerns over bosa, and i myself have some, mostly about his work ethic, which btw i think is overblown, when you consider all the factors, him dominating a championship run and winning it all, being the best defender in college football, and the fact that he took this year to round out his skillset and has done so successfully, you cant really blame him if he seems like his motor has fallen back, hes trying to play smart football this year and i applaud that. the kids a game wrecker in the run game and in the pass rush, and he has the athleticism to slim down 10 lbs and become a legit 3 down OLB as well, hes very smart, very aware, and plays with good overall technique.

 

 

Yeah I've seen similar to you with Bosa. . I'd say my biggest concern is his burst and first step. It's not that his first step is bad. I'm just wondering whether he'll have success early against NFL players. I think he'll need more development than people realize. I see him as a far better McPhee.

I think he'll need a good mentor and coach. He's highly disruptive as a pass rusher and quite good as a run defender. He'll need work in coverage but it's rare to have a guy ready to go there at the position.

His bend around the edge could be better and he sometimes plays a little high. I don't like tall pass rushers much. That's my personal preference. I like my pass rushers to be close to 6-3. But that's another story altogether. Lol

That helps me understand quite a bit more of who he is and where he is coming from, i try to look at things objectively.   If he turns out to be a better McPhee i guess that wouldnt be a bad thing.  Maybe my thing is im not expecting him to come in and wreck defenses like some people are acting like and willing to give him time to develope, that could have something to do with it. 

[Drew P]

Yeah I've seen similar to you with Bosa. . I'd say my biggest concern is his burst and first step. It's not that his first step is bad. I'm just wondering whether he'll have success early against NFL players. I think he'll need more development than people realize. I see him as a far better McPhee.

I think he'll need a good mentor and coach. He's highly disruptive as a pass rusher and quite good as a run defender. He'll need work in coverage but it's rare to have a guy ready to go there at the position.

His bend around the edge could be better and he sometimes plays a little high. I don't like tall pass rushers much. That's my personal preference. I like my pass rushers to be close to 6-3. But that's another story altogether. Lol

 

Far better than McPhee as what an overall player or overall value? McPhee was a classic Ozzie late round home run. As a pass rusher he was damn near unblock-able because of his explosiveness off the line at any spot

[GrimCoconut]

Far better than McPhee as what an overall player or overall value? McPhee was a classic Ozzie late round home run. As a pass rusher he was damn near unblock-able because of his explosiveness off the line at any spot

Obviously prospect not value. McPhee was a fifth round value steal while Bosa will go very high lol. Bosa has the potential to be far better than McPhee. Edited January 6, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[January J]

yeah strong is a comparison that is just so far off base that i dont believe were watching the same player, even at the peak of his hype it was known that strongs route game was even worse than mike evans, he couldnt separate even slightly from college db's, he couldnt even chop step to make a cut, hell the dude could barely slow down. treadwell is far more polished and it doesnt take an expert to see the difference. 

 

unrelated to this, but related to the topic in general... 

tennessee takes tunsil, cleveland takes lynch, chargers take robinson/ramsey, cowboys take goff, jax takes vh3.... who would we choose between bosa and stanley? and how badly would we all want to just jump off a bridge if our choice is a massive bust and the other is an all pro

definitely depends on what we do with KO. If we retain him we would take bosa no doubt..if not then Stanley would be the pick- although I know bisciotti will be banging on the table for bosa if we get an opportunity like that regardless.. however I'm not so sure where he's at with it right now considering Joe's injury and what not. He might have changed his stance- I think the season ending presser will be pretty telling in that regard, and I hope some of those questions are asked..I'm definitely looking forward to it.

and another thing- I'm still not so sure that Tunsil automatically gets taken before stanley... you never know, and I think we should pump the brakes a bit. Im not sold on that, and I've seen quite a few boards from pro analysts that have Stanley going first.

Interesting that vh3 and Ramsey are neck and neck right now in the poll for this thread. I will be very interested to see who Ozzie would take if they both were there at 6 and the other top guys are gone.

[JoeyFlex5]

Buckner reminds me a lot of Campbell from Arizona but I think he's so talented he could play 4-3 DE. He'll be perfect for San Diego imo.

As for Bosa and Stanley, I see your point but I can't pass on a pass rusher like Bosa. That's really hard for me to do. It's true that pass rushers typically can go anywhere, I think we have a better chance at finding a quality LT in the second, third, or fourth round than I do pass rusher. This tear has a great LT class imo.

ive always compared buckner to campbell myself, would love to have that here. and i am actually not a big fan of the LT class, i see germain ifedi in the 2nd round but i worry about him in the nfl, i just think he could be severely overwhelmed at the next level, and at the next level i dont see any starters. however, i think ngakoue is a DROY candidate and i would be ecstatic to land him in the 2nd as far as later pass rushers go, but the well does run VERY dry after that. 

 

 

That helps me understand quite a bit more of who he is and where he is coming from, i try to look at things objectively.   If he turns out to be a better McPhee i guess that wouldnt be a bad thing.  Maybe my thing is im not expecting him to come in and wreck defenses like some people are acting like and willing to give him time to develope, that could have something to do with it. 

mcphee has a very explosive first step, he plays tough, and he plays nimble, however i dont think his arsenal is very loaded in terms of ways he can beat you, he can beat you off the snap, he can set you up for an inside move, but aside from those things i think he is limited, still good at what he does. bosa has a first step that could be better but it is still a very strong first step, he is one of the most violent players i have ever seen and he isnt recklessly violent, he is just an absolute bully and manhandles everyone he faces but he still plays very light on his feet, he works great with his hands, and he sniffs out the ballcarrier well in the run game. ive always seen a lot of michael strahan in his game. you have to remember, when people criticize bosa, they typically overdo it because hes the top defensive prospect, some just hate the hype train too much to be realistic, when someone says he has a slow first step, they really mean "his first step isnt as good as jadeveon clowneys was" as if its relative in any way, or when they hes raw, they really mean "he cant drop into coverage" as if anyone is drafting an edge rusher for his coverage skills. some of the criticisms ive seen on bosa have been ridiculous, and this is coming from someone who is actually pretty tentative of him.

Edited January 6, 2016 by JoeyFlex5