Who should we take at #6?

[RavensDieHard21]

15 hours ago, Clmraven said:

First things first there is no speed rusher worth taking at 6 there's no Von Miller or Vic Beasley in this draft, secondly just because Buckner looks similar Campbell doesn't mean he is gonna have a career just like him, Campbell was a second rounder so logically Buckner is seen as a better player coming out. 

 

Also I'm not sure how you think 8 sacks is a little above average? I'd take 8 sacks from a DE every day of the week, and im really not sure why you think he can't get pressure on the QB, he was always around the QB with a ton of hurries this year and often finished with a sack. And I'm not sure why you're rambling about going in the top 5 cause we're picking at 6.

 

i think the only thing that will limit Buckner is how he's used, if we were to draft him and only use him to free up LBs then Pees should be fired.

The last statement is gold! I agree here. If we did nab Buckner and he was only used as a space eater, then it would further verify that Pees has no clue on how to utilize his players skills. 

[Clmraven]

6 hours ago, Winchester said:

Would you like to test drive that statement?? So why dont you Tell us!! If 6 sacks is the funniest things you read on here then How many sacks is Suggs going to get at going on 35 coming off an Achilles?? If 6 is soooooo funny then you must predict at least twice that!! I will bookmark this and rub your nose in it when Suggs fails to eclipse 6 sacks.  You say you ran a 4.5 in highschool?? If you seriously think Suggs will be anything in the zip code of an impact player at his age coming off his injury I do not think you know ANYTHING about athletic performance. If you truly believe players carry peak athletic performance into mid 30s. That is what is funny!! Because allow me to INFORM you something. There is not a single renowned  trainer I know of that says Suggs will be a double digit sack producer or even close!!  And many who have saw him train for his comeback when he even trains think there is a chance he will retire. Let me guess you ran 4.50 in highschool then 4.55 at 35 yrs old correct??

How many renowned trainers who actually have trained with Suggs this offseason have you spoke to? Or are you just talking to guys who work at GNC?

[RavensFanMania]

8 hours ago, Winchester said:

You can not grasp what I am referring to. I would love to meet you in person!!!!!!! A 3-4 end that can get a little extra pressure over the slightly better than average 3-4 end is a luxury!! Because your edge rusher is your primary sack producers. If a team is that stacked at edge rushers that it can skip edge rusher for a 3-4 defensive end that pressures QBs better than the position average then yeah it is a luxury. A team can not worry about getting some extra heat from the 3-4 end before finding a dynamic edge rusher or rushers first. With declining edge rushers the ravens need a dynamic young speed rusher first before thinking hmmmm I wish I got more pressure from my 3-4 end when the edge rushers barely produced 10 sacks combined!! Unless that 3-4 end is jj watt or vlose to it. Oh and BTW dude,Suggs is finished!! You would have to put him outside jj watt to help him. And even then I bet any money he would not hit 5 sacks!! I will bet anybody $5000 to $500 he will not hit 6 sacks!!  Is that how you are thinking?? How can the ravens get Suggs in matchups he could actually win and make it seem he is worth the $$ he is counted against the cap. Is that your goal?? Get Suggs to the QB unobstructed??  You can get Suggs in "prime" matchups but he still has to win. When watt took the QB down 21 times his olbs barely combined for double digits. You can not handle anybody not agreeing with you on Buckner at #6. And being a little better at pressuring QBs than the average 3-4 end is not saying much. Most 3-4 defensive ends is playing that role because he is terrible at sacking the QB. Penetrators are not 3-4 defensive ends very often because it is a waste of the rare  talent to get to QBs.

 

As for the answer to your question. I would trade down and draft Spence that is if he is not going top10 anyways. If he runs 4.60 or better he could go top6 even. That is if going defense. I would draft Rankins or NKemdiche before Buckner in .05 seconds!! I'm actually a fan of trading for Mingo and roiding him up to 255-260!! (slang for billing him up with quality muscle)

You may not agree, but I for one, would be ecstatic if we drafted Buckner.  If he's best player available, you have to take him and yes, over Spence.  I still would take Bosa and Ramsey over him, but Buckner is right there with them. 

You say he is missing  your point, but it's quite the opposite. Buckner is FAR AND AWAY a little better than the average 3-4 end at rushing the passer. 

[Jaybirds]

I do think six sacks is a reasonable expectation for Suggs next year (well, more like between 4 and 8, but let's call it 6).  But here's the thing:  I think that could happen and we still get more sacks and QB hurries than this year.  I'd say that's the point of taking a pass rusher in the first round to put with Jernigan and Za'Darius.  I'd say Buckner and Spence would both do that for us.  I personally think Jaylon Smith does that, and more. I think it's safe to say one of them will be there at #6. 

[AnthonyGames]

If Buckner is BPA, I think it would be a great pick. Having our D-Line as Buckner, Brandon Williams, and Jernigan, that would equate to the best 3-4 D-Line in football! All young and extremely talented. Would it be nice to get Jalen Ramsey or an elite pass rusher? Yes. However, having a D-Line with that much ferocity would cause a ripple effect throughout the defense. The run defense generated alone from those three guys would be really solid, freeing up linebackers (about 940lbs of insanely athletic big guys with huge motors).  If we can generate solid pressure from a 3 (or 4) man pass rush, it would make it way easier to provide additional coverage. Also, a solid 3 (or 4) man pass rush would make it way easier for our outside linebackers to generate sacks. Lets look at the potential difference from this year to next: The opposing team blocking Upshaw/Dumervil and Guy/Davis, OR Buckner and Dumervil. What about Jernigan and Z. Smith, OR Suggs and Jernigan. On top of that, I'm assuming we bring in another OLB/pass rusher via free agency or the draft. That would be a very formidable front 7!

[PolishRifle]

There is no way Bosa is going to fall to us now, after the show Von Miller gave us in the SB. Sure, he's no Von Miller, but NFL teams love to copy other teams success. I wouldn't be surprised, if both Bosa and Buckner are gone before we pick.

[Jaybirds]

Just now, PolishRifle said:

There is no way Bosa is going to fall to us now, after the show Von Miller gave us in the SB. Sure, he's no Von Miller, but NFL teams love to copy other teams success. I wouldn't be surprised, if both Bosa and Buckner are gone before we pick.

I agree.  BUT... I've seen two mock drafts today that have Ramsey falling to us at #6.   I'm okay with that. 

[ellicottraven]

I say take a chance with Noah Spence at #6 if Ramsey, Bosa and Buckner are all gone by then. I will be fine with that as long as the team has done its due diligence with regard to his off field behavior.

[edthehead]

wow, I have not seen this blog in a little while,

I was coming here to say at 6, "I will take a trade alex"

seems as though the people have spoken

" JUDGE TREAD" 

[January J]

1 hour ago, AnthonyGames said:

If Buckner is the, I think it would be a great p ick. Having our D-Line as Buckner, Brandon Wwoullliams, and Jernigan, that woul d equate to the best 3-4 D-Line in football! All young and extremely talented. Would it be nice to get Jalen Ramsey or an elite pass rusher? Yes. However, having a D-Line with that much ferocity would cause a ripple effect throughout the defense. The run defense generated alone from those three guys would be really solid, freeing up linebackers (about 940lbs of insanely athletic big guys with huge motors).  If we can generate solid pressure from a 3 (or 4) man pass rush, it would make it way easier to provide additional coverage. Also, a solid 3 (or 4) man pass rush would make it way easier for our outside linebackers to generate sacks. Lets look at the potential difference from this year to next: The opposing team blocking Upshaw/Dumervil and Guy/Davis, OR Buckner and Dumervil. What about Jernigan and Z. Smith, OR Suggs and Jernigan. On top of that, I'm assuming we bring in another OLB/pass rusher via free agency or the draft. That would be a very formidable front 7!

Just Imagine being able to get ramsey AND spence due to him falling bc of character concerns. That would just be phenomenal and i Would consider that a win regardless of Who the remaining picks are.

[allblackraven]

1 hour ago, PolishRifle said:

There is no way Bosa is going to fall to us now, after the show Von Miller gave us in the SB. Sure, he's no Von Miller, but NFL teams love to copy other teams success. I wouldn't be surprised, if both Bosa and Buckner are gone before we pick.

The only similarity between Bosa/Buckner and Miller is that they are all football players.

[L.A.Ravens]

We are not picking at 6. To much money, which we don't have.

[52520Andrew]

40 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

The only similarity between Bosa/Buckner and Miller is that they are all football players.

Incorrect, they are also front 7 players

[allblackraven]

5 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Incorrect, they are also front 7 players

True that. I apologize.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, PolishRifle said:

There is no way Bosa is going to fall to us now, after the show Von Miller gave us in the SB. Sure, he's no Von Miller, but NFL teams love to copy other teams success. I wouldn't be surprised, if both Bosa and Buckner are gone before we pick.

if teams wanna copy denvers formula, theyre gonna draft spence or floyd, not bosa or buckner.

[allblackraven]

2 hours ago, L.A.Ravens said:

We are not picking at 6. To much money, which we don't have.

You'd be surprised.

[ellicottraven]

8 hours ago, L.A.Ravens said:

We are not picking at 6. To much money, which we don't have.

What? Are you serious?

[L.A.Ravens]

I'll bet a shiny buffalo Nickle we trade back for extra picks and save money.

[JoeyFlex5]

45 minutes ago, L.A.Ravens said:

I'll bet a shiny buffalo Nickle we trade back for extra picks and save money.

Because draft is also free agency. Yeah I'll take that net.

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, L.A.Ravens said:

I'll bet a shiny buffalo Nickle we trade back for extra picks and save money.

You realize that rookies are pretty cheap right? Last year's number six pick, Williams, will make 16.5m over a five year span, averaging a little over 3m a year. Top ten picks are guys that teams think have the potential to be one of the best in the league at that position, so that price is extremely cheap (assuming the player isn't a bust).

[Dewy101]

11 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

if teams wanna copy denvers formula, theyre gonna draft spence or floyd, not bosa or buckner.

Not necessarily, Denver was also very good inside. Derek Wolfe and Malik Jackson were terrors all season long. It made it impossible to slide protection towards Miller or even Ware. 

[52520Andrew]

6 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

You realize that rookies are pretty cheap right? Last year's number six pick, Williams, will make 16.5m over a five year span, averaging a little over 3m a year. Top ten picks are guys that teams think have the potential to be one of the best in the league at that position, so that price is extremely cheap (assuming the player isn't a bust).

Yeah I am too lazy to do the math but I think there is a pretty good chance that trading down would actually be more expensive for us capwise. Even if we save money, it wouldn't be much, maybe a couple hundred thousand depending on what we get(and I wouldn't take less in a trade because cap). Either way, we may trade down from #6 but cap concerns will not be a reason why if we do.

[JoeyFlex5]

6 hours ago, Dewy101 said:

Not necessarily, Denver was also very good inside. Derek Wolfe and Malik Jackson were terrors all season long. It made it impossible to slide protection towards Miller or even Ware. 

But clearly what von Miller and ware brought to the field was what made the Broncos who they are. You could have replaced wolfe and Jackson with just decent players and the olbs are still dominant. It's von Miller and demarcus ware under wade Phillips for God's sake lol

[52520Andrew]

18 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

But clearly what von Miller and ware brought to the field was what made the Broncos who they are. You could have replaced wolfe and Jackson with just decent players and the olbs are still dominant. It's von Miller and demarcus ware under wade Phillips for God's sake lol

I don't think they are as dominant without Jackson and Wolfe. Not going to short change Ware and Miller but that entire defensive line for Denver was stacked 2 deep and Miller and Ware were able to be rotated in effectively and rested up. Sure they would be effective by themselves but the rest of that D-line put them over the top because you couldn't just double those guys and could keep them fresh. They don't win the Super Bowl and probably don't make it with only decent guys playing inside.

[Drew P]

8 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

I don't think they are as dominant without Jackson and Wolfe. Not going to short change Ware and Miller but that entire defensive line for Denver was stacked 2 deep and Miller and Ware were able to be rotated in effectively and rested up. Sure they would be effective by themselves but the rest of that D-line put them over the top because you couldn't just double those guys and could keep them fresh. They don't win the Super Bowl and probably don't make it with only decent guys playing inside.

No doubt. Don't forget Ware was hurt as always for a period of time and able to come back for the final run. He isn't an every down LB and hasn't been for the past 3-4 seasons.

[52520Andrew]

Just now, Drew P said:

No doubt. Don't forget Ware was hurt as always for a period of time and able to come back for the final run. He isn't an every down LB and hasn't been for the past 3-4 seasons.

Just look at how good Doom was in 2014 compared to this past year, that sort of thing makes a big difference. 

[JoeyFlex5]

47 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

I don't think they are as dominant without Jackson and Wolfe. Not going to short change Ware and Miller but that entire defensive line for Denver was stacked 2 deep and Miller and Ware were able to be rotated in effectively and rested up. Sure they would be effective by themselves but the rest of that D-line put them over the top because you couldn't just double those guys and could keep them fresh. They don't win the Super Bowl and probably don't make it with only decent guys playing inside.

of course removing 2 very good players makes a defense less dominant, the more quality players you remove the more a defense suffers, however i think the focal point was ware and miller and if you had to choose 2 players for one run, i think ware and miller would get the nod in a heartbeat lol 

 

thats like saying if the ravens offense decided between our rb corps and our te corps, trade forsett/allen/west for juice, or trade williams/gillmore/boyle for juice, either way its gonna hurt the offense, but the TE corps is the identity of the offense and clearly the strength of the team and it would hurt a whole lot more.

[52520Andrew]

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

of course removing 2 very good players makes a defense less dominant, the more quality players you remove the more a defense suffers, however i think the focal point was ware and miller and if you had to choose 2 players for one run, i think ware and miller would get the nod in a heartbeat lol 

 

thats like saying if the ravens offense decided between our rb corps and our te corps, trade forsett/allen/west for juice, or trade williams/gillmore/boyle for juice, either way its gonna hurt the offense, but the TE corps is the identity of the offense and clearly the strength of the team and it would hurt a whole lot more.

For sure but both sides were certainly important and both brought things to the field that made the Broncos who they were as opposed to it being just Miller and Ware. It was like our D-line in 2014 where you couldn't just double someone because everyone else would tear you apart. Our D-line was still decent this year but teams could focus their attention on guys like Doom and Jernigan and they were not nearly as effective because of it.

Losing Miller and Ware would hurt more, I am not trying to argue that but that group would not be near the same without those guys inside and they deserve their share of credit as well as they made things much easier for Miller and Ware.

[ngatainmyhouse]

Call me crazy, but I am starting to want to take Buckner over Bosa...

[ngatainmyhouse]

Article just posted about Tunsil. Read before you comment. To me doesn't seem to make him drop but just thought I'd share

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000635327/article/report-laremy-tunsil-involved-in-five-alleged-ncaa-violations