Who should we take at #6?

[JoeyFlex5]

Well the fact I used the '' clearly mean I didn't literally picture him as such.

If you find a better word to help me with it you're welcome. He ain't a speedster nor someone you would use in the slot to convert on a ton of slants.. so I can't find a word.

However, Upshaw was clearly less versatile, more stiff, and not as good as a pass rusher as Shaq, who's more similar to Bosa than the former Raven (for what I've seen so far).

he's a one dimensional pass rusher, coming out they were both 4-3 ends who lacked finesse and they were just big bullrushers with good football iq. Shaq may be "better" but not by much and he doesn't really offer anything more. Remember at this point in upshaws draft year he was rated very highly and he fell. For treadwell, he is a #1 wr, he can do it all without leaning on athleticism as a crutch but still offering the level of athleticism needed to be a teams top option. His ability to get open with savvy routes, catch anything thrown his way, and bully opposing dbs, is just a great combination and even though he won't blow the combine our of the water, he will produce at a high level in any system. Just a natural wr and a talented one

[balfan23]

If you read my mock draft, I'm Laquon Treadwell all the way right now. The only team ahead of us that might take him is Dallas but I feel good about him getting to us. Like others have said he's the safest prospect at our pick assuming VH3/Ramsey don't make it to us. Treadwell/Perriman is a duo that can take us into the future and evolve our offense.

But based on the poll set up, it does assume that VH3 and Ramsey both fall to us (he has 2 QBs, 2 LTs and Bosa going top five in this scenario).

 

If that is the case and VH3, Ramsey and Treadwell are all there, do you still go Treadwell? (I say that too, because I noted in your personal mock you have VH3 and Ramsey gone before we pick). 

[January J]

First time I watched Carl Lawson I was shocked, and I still feel excited about his pro potential.

If it wasn't for his injuries he would easily be a top5.

He represents our biggest need too (in my opinion): an explosive, natural 3-4 pass-rusher with good leverage and effective moves.

Just like with Oddighizuwa in the late 1st round of the last year, it's just too risky to grab him as high as his talent suggests. I would love to have him wearing black&purple but not at #6.

I think we saw enough OTs taken in the top ten, recently, who didn't perform well enough to justify that pick and other youngsters taken in the late rounds (and are scheme-fit) who simply fill the void nicely (Urschel, Jensen). That's why I generally wouldn't jump of joy for one, there.

I also like Treadwell a lot, his YAC and blocking skills but I doubt Oz wants to have two highly paid WRs in couple of years and honestly we don't need a 'possession' receiver as bad as CB or pass-rushers.

Buckner would be a good fit as a 3-4 DE, adding some serious speed to an already good DLine.

Shaq would be a versatile edge presence too, talented, pretty similar to Bosa (but I like him more).

VH3 would help the secondary greatly, no question, but the lack of good pass-rushers in the next rounds makes me feel like Shaq is more valuable there.

It's very hard between these 3 and I'll probably change opinion many times until April, but for now Shaq is my man

so in 4 or 5 years we let one of them walk. Problem solved. And get a nice shiny comp pick in return.

[sflegend89]

But based on the poll set up, it does assume that VH3 and Ramsey both fall to us (he has 2 QBs, 2 LTs and Bosa going top five in this scenario).

 

If that is the case and VH3, Ramsey and Treadwell are all there, do you still go Treadwell? (I say that too, because I noted in your personal mock you have VH3 and Ramsey gone before we pick). 

 

The odds that VH3, Ramsey, Treadwell all make it to us at 6 are extremely extremely low barring something major happening between now and the draft. I would all but guarantee either Ramsey or VH3 are off the board before we pick, possibly both. Because of how this draft class stacks up those guys will all be in demand early. I feel good that 1 of those 3 will make it to us, if we're lucky 2 out of 3 and we'll get to choose between Treadwell and one of the DB's that falls to us. That's the ideal situation, the more realistic situation is 1 out of those 3 fall to us and we take who the board gives us (BPA).

 

Assuming Cleveland takes a QB (Which their owner has already heavily hinted that they will), Ozzie and Eric will get one of the top 5 players on their big board guaranteed, that fact in it of itself makes me feel great about this draft. Just in my experience you shouldn't count on high end players like VH3/Ramsey getting passed up given the lack of other high end talent in this draft class, if we covet them it's likely because they will be in demand from other team's as well. 

[GrimCoconut]

I love how we feel like we can get a prospect as trade back option and then all of a sudden that same prospect we once thought would be available in the teens is now probably going before we pick. I'm honestly sick of this mentality. Neg me all you want--I don't care. It's time for some tough love, wake-up call response:

So all of a sudden Dallas will certainly take Treadwell? Wasn't this the case when Hargreaves was a popular pick? If nobody takes Bosa you mean to tell me Dallas may not take them?

I have no issue with someone making indefinite guesses but some of you need to quit the "everybody is against us" and this automatic assumption of the worst case scenario here. It's ridiculous.

Can Treadwell go to Dallas? Yeah, maybe. They also need help at CB. Claiborne and Carr could be cap casualties. Maybe they take Buckner. Not sure why nobody talks him up more. Have you seen his first step? Maybe they even take Ramsey and keep him at CB or even safety. Yeah, they drafted Jones but that doesn't mean they won't want another with two potential losses.

The entire NFL doesn't draft just to screw over the Ravens. Wake up.

[balfan23]

The odds that VH3, Ramsey, Treadwell all make it to us at 6 are extremely extremely low barring something major happening between now and the draft. I would all but guarantee either Ramsey or VH3 are off the board before we pick, possibly both. Because of how this draft class stacks up those guys will all be in demand early. I feel good that 1 of those 3 will make it to us, if we're lucky 2 out of 3 and we'll get to choose between Treadwell and one of the DB's that falls to us. That's the ideal situation, the more realistic situation is 1 out of those 3 fall to us and we take who the board gives us (BPA).

 

Assuming Cleveland takes a QB (Which their owner has already heavily hinted that they will), Ozzie and Eric will get one of the top 5 players on their big board guaranteed, that fact in it of itself makes me feel great about this draft. Just in my experience you shouldn't count on high end players like VH3/Ramsey getting passed up given the lack of other high end talent in this draft class, if we covet them it's likely because they will be in demand from other team's as well. 

OK - so then I guess I'll alter my question to be: If only one of those 3 drops to us, who would you prefer it to be? 

[GrimCoconut]

I'd take Treadwell with our first pick. With our second I'd go DB, preferably King if he's there. He's a perfect CB for us. He can make plays and turn over the ball. I'd then trade up into the back of the second using our third and take Ngakoue or Lawson. Carl could be gone by then but I think Ngakoue could slide some. I'd then use our original fourth (since it's the Broncos' 4th I'd trade) and take Dahl as our LT project who may be able to immediately start.

[GrimCoconut]

OK - so then I guess I'll alter my question to be: If only one of those 3 drops to us, who would you prefer it to be?

Treadwell because I like King a lot and he makes more plays on the ball than other DB prospects and is effective in off man coverage and can tackle.

[JoeyFlex5]

a very intriguing idea to me, would be a 1-2 punch of buckner and ngakoue. i think if buckner is in a system where he is given the freedom to use his length and burst, he will be DROY by a mile and a half, so if he were to come to a place like baltimore and pees, who im not a fan but the man can brilliantly coordinate the front seven, tells him the anchor the run and then lets him pin his ears back and penetrate the 3 gap on pass plays, then i think he explodes onto the scene as a rookie. 

 

that said, i dont think we can afford to take another DL without getting an edge rusher to pair with him, its not secret that i think ngakoue is in the top 3 edge rushers in the draft and may be the most pro ready, pairing a guy like that, who has dominated pro competition, with an absolute freak of nature like buckner, well that is the cornerstone of our defense right there, a very intriguing duo to think about.

[sflegend89]

OK - so then I guess I'll alter my question to be: If only one of those 3 drops to us, who would you prefer it to be? 

 

I think the main reason I like Treadwell so much is because I can definitely envision him being on the board when we pick. I'm afraid of falling for VH3 or Ramsey because I know there's such a good chance they will be gone by our pick. With that said as of right now they both would probably be BPA over Treadwell.

 

To answer your question I would take VH3, I think he compliments Jimmy Smith better than Ramsey, the Chris Harris Jr to his Aqib Talib if you will. I just don't think he's going to be there when we pick unfortunately.

[sflegend89]

I love how we feel like we can get a prospect as trade back option and then all of a sudden that same prospect we once thought would be available in the teens is now probably going before we pick. I'm honestly sick of this mentality. Neg me all you want--I don't care. It's time for some tough love, wake-up call response:

So all of a sudden Dallas will certainly take Treadwell? Wasn't this the case when Hargreaves was a popular pick? If nobody takes Bosa you mean to tell me Dallas may not take them?

I have no issue with someone making indefinite guesses but some of you need to quit the "everybody is against us" and this automatic assumption of the worst case scenario here. It's ridiculous.

Can Treadwell go to Dallas? Yeah, maybe. They also need help at CB. Claiborne and Carr could be cap casualties. Maybe they take Buckner. Not sure why nobody talks him up more. Have you seen his first step? Maybe they even take Ramsey and keep him at CB or even safety. Yeah, they drafted Jones but that doesn't mean they won't want another with two potential losses.

The entire NFL doesn't draft just to screw over the Ravens. Wake up.

 

 

I agree with your sentiment. I don't think it's so much about screwing over the Ravens as much as it is recognizing that any player we covet highly at #6 will likely be coveted by other teams before our pick, in this case the Ramsey/VH3 duo. Those are both guys in the 2nd tier after Tunsil/Bosa and that 2nd tier isn't very big this year.

 

As for Treadwell, as long as Dallas doesn't fall in love with him there really isn't any reason he won't be available to us at 6, while his draft stock has shot up he's still not a bonafide top 5 pick by any stretch of the imagination. But the idea of trading back and comfortably taking him has definitely gone by the wayside for now. Could he last a couple picks after us? Sure. But trying to trade back and still make sure we land Treadwell is a tough ask now that his stock has shot up so much. It's still way too early though, the combine interviews/results can change a lot of opinions.

[JoeyFlex5]

I think the main reason I like Treadwell so much is because I can definitely envision him being on the board when we pick. I'm afraid of falling for VH3 or Ramsey because I know there's such a good chance they will be gone by our pick. With that said as of right now they both would probably be BPA over Treadwell.

 

To answer your question I would take VH3, I think he compliments Jimmy Smith better than Ramsey, the Chris Harris Jr to his Aqib Talib if you will. I just don't think he's going to be there when we pick unfortunately.

just want to hear your opinion on this, but what makes you say ramsey and vh3 would be better picks at 6 than treadwell? they both have big concerns and have struggled as of late, while treadwell has gotten better as his career has went on and hasnt showed one moment of weakness as far as i know. the argument of treadwell not being a jaw dropping athlete is a legit one, but the bust factor for both vh3 and ramsey are far more concerning to me, treadwell just looks so much more comfortable on a football field and looks like he will be the guy you can safely depend on most out of the 3.

[gabrielgrissom]

Ah! A poll. Can I vote on who we take. We fans pay the bills so I should be able to pick...

 

Oh wait...

 

I think we take Treadwell. He's built for our offense. He gets jump balls, is a smooth route runner. Good but not great speed. Great hands. Physical.

 

To have him and Perriman. That's problematic for anyone. I think Trestman wants to replicate what he had up in Chicago. Jeffery and Marshall were two tall and physical WRs. Both had strong hands. 

 

And yes, Breshad has strong hands. He suffers from a concentration drop issue. That's fixable. 

 

 

I want Stanley... BADLY. But I think Treadwell is the pick. He's got a high ceiling. 

 

Stanley kinda reminds me of KO too.

Why use #6 pick on Treadwell when we could get Mike Williams from Clemson in like the 5th round lol. DB is also a deep draft in my opinion, so take a DL or OLB. If Bosa is there take him. Maybe try to trade up. We're going to have a good amount of picks this draft. And next draft Ozzie can trade comp picks, it's well worth it. Bottom line. We need a playmaker if that playmaker is Treadwell or Ramsey etc. I'm fine with whomever we pick. It just needs to be an immediate impact playmaker. 

Ehh i dont know about getting a reciever all the way in the 5th i like travin duval from lsu or derunnya wilson from miss st in the 2nd 3rd round

[balfan23]

Personally, when speaking from a position standpoint, I wish we had the ability to get a dominant edge rusher with this pick. I wish we had a Von Miller or Khalil Mack type guy there for us. However, outside of Bosa, I don't think there is anyone that is worthy of a #6 pick in this draft to fill that spot and the odds of Bosa being there at #6 is virtually 0%. 

[GrimCoconut]

Personally, when speaking from a position standpoint, I wish we had the ability to get a dominant edge rusher with this pick. I wish we had a Von Miller or Khalil Mack type guy there for us. However, outside of Bosa, I don't think there is anyone that is worthy of a #6 pick in this draft to fill that spot and the odds of Bosa being there at #6 is virtually 0%.

Lol, well, the odds are more like 1/6 or 16%. I catch your drift, though. It seems unlikely Bosa makes it but you just never know in the draft. Williams was widely seen as the top player last year and he fell. It happens.

[sflegend89]

just want to hear your opinion on this, but what makes you say ramsey and vh3 would be better picks at 6 than treadwell? they both have big concerns and have struggled as of late, while treadwell has gotten better as his career has went on and hasnt showed one moment of weakness as far as i know. the argument of treadwell not being a jaw dropping athlete is a legit one, but the bust factor for both vh3 and ramsey are far more concerning to me, treadwell just looks so much more comfortable on a football field and looks like he will be the guy you can safely depend on most out of the 3.

 

You're preaching to the choir, I love the idea of the Treadwell pick at 6. But I do think VH3 is the 3rd best prospect in the entire draft pound for pound, he's still really young and the athleticism and high level technical ability sets him apart as a star in the making at a super coveted position in today's NFL. If you're going pure BPA I think it has to be VH3 if he somehow made it to us.

 

But I definitely get the argument that based on our roster Treadwell would be the better pick for our team because of how he changes our offense. Really I wouldn't be mad either way no matter who we took between those 2, there's great arguments going both ways.

Edited January 5, 2016 by sflegend89

[sflegend89]

Personally, when speaking from a position standpoint, I wish we had the ability to get a dominant edge rusher with this pick. I wish we had a Von Miller or Khalil Mack type guy there for us. However, outside of Bosa, I don't think there is anyone that is worthy of a #6 pick in this draft to fill that spot and the odds of Bosa being there at #6 is virtually 0%. 

 

100% agreed. I would take an elite edge rusher in a heartbeat, the poor pass rush hurt the defense this year far more than the secondary's coverage did, I think it was the biggest problem area on the entire team in fact. Let's just hope Suggs comes back strong and we can maybe hit it big with a sleeper like Ngakoue or a respectable FA who doesn't break the bank.

[JoeyFlex5]

You're preaching to the choir, I love the idea of the Treadwell pick at 6. But I do think VH3 is the 3rd best prospect in the entire draft pound for pound, he's still really young and the athleticism and high level technical ability sets him apart as a star in the making at a super coveted position in today's NFL. If you're going pure BPA I think it has to be VH3 if he somehow made it to us.

 

But I definitely get the argument that based on our roster Treadwell would be the better pick for our team because of how he changes our offense. Really I wouldn't be mad either way no matter who we took between those 2, there's great arguments going both ways.

i think you may have missed my point lol. it had nothing to do with the roster, but more about the safer pick. as much as i like vh3 and his overall body of work, he has been abused more than a few times, he plays bigger than his size, but at a likely 5'9" he will have a lotttttt of reaching to do just to get a fingertip on the ball, nfl QBs who throw with that 3rd dimension and know how to drop it down in the right spot can expose him, aj mccarron did it to him last year dropping it just out of his reach to a wr who was 3 inches taller. im not gonna doubt for one second that his fluidity and incredible closing speed and refinement and ball skills at his small size are 2nd to none for as long as i can remember, the boy is a rare breed and the most refined corner i have ever watched extensively on tape, but he also has had moments that really make you consider whether you can trust him consistently in the nfl, his size has been exposed at times in college, so you have to assume it will be exposed in the pros as well, and with his hideous ending to his college career you worry about his consistency. treadwell on the other hand... well name the one and only concern have of his... top end speed, which has never caused a problem for him on the field, and likely never will. 

[Clmraven]

Not sure how Treadwell has picked up so much steam I like him but I'm still not sold on him at #6 yet, I think he could be a #1 guy but there's a few issues I see, for one looking at some of the past top 10 wide receivers I'm not sure he stacks up, AJ Green was really polished Julio was rather raw but an athletic freak Amari Cooper was absolutely Squeaky Clean. I'd be more comfortable looking for a trade back and taking a chance on him being there in the 10-12 area.

[JoeyFlex5]

Not sure how Treadwell has picked up so much steam I like him but I'm still not sold on him at #6 yet, I think he could be a #1 guy but there's a few issues I see, for one looking at some of the past top 10 wide receivers I'm not sure he stacks up, AJ Green was really polished Julio was rather raw but an athletic freak Amari Cooper was absolutely Squeaky Clean. I'd be more comfortable looking for a trade back and taking a chance on him being there in the 10-12 area.

he lit up his bowl game with 3 td's. 

 

of all those wr's, treadwell seems to sit smack in the middle of all of them, respectable athleticism even compared to guys like julio, great refinement like an amari cooper, the spectacular catching ability and dependable vice grip hands of an aj green.. he basically is on the same level as all of those guys but offering a little bit less size and speed, doesnt make him a lesser player at all. i just think hes the real deal and his most recent game convinced me

[GrimCoconut]

Not sure how Treadwell has picked up so much steam I like him but I'm still not sold on him at #6 yet, I think he could be a #1 guy but there's a few issues I see, for one looking at some of the past top 10 wide receivers I'm not sure he stacks up, AJ Green was really polished Julio was rather raw but an athletic freak Amari Cooper was absolutely Squeaky Clean. I'd be more comfortable looking for a trade back and taking a chance on him being there in the 10-12 area.

Who do you have ahead of him? This isn't a rhetorical question.

For me he's always been the top WR but after analyzing our season and struggles and reasons why we lost combined with constant failures against the Bengals, I feel Treadwell jumps up high on my board. Combine this with the fact that this is Smith's final year and we have no idea what to expect from Perriman makes me nervous in terms of our WR.

I really like Stanley and Tunsil. I'd take them over Treadwell. That said, I can see why we'd take Treadwell over them if we re-signef KO. While I wouldn't complain if we re-signed KO and drafted a LT high, would you be happy with that?

I don't see a lot of elite talents in this class.

[GrimCoconut]

he lit up his bowl game with 3 td's.

of all those wr's, treadwell seems to sit smack in the middle of all of them, respectable athleticism even compared to guys like julio, great refinement like an amari cooper, the spectacular catching ability and dependable vice grip hands of an aj green.. he basically is on the same level as all of those guys but offering a little bit less size and speed, doesnt make him a lesser player at all. i just think hes the real deal and his most recent game convinced me

I don't care about his bowl game. If he struggled I'd be concerned but he only confirmed what I've seen. I'm sure you feel the same way but your post makes it seem like you're reacting to one game. Just clarifying here.

[JoeyFlex5]

I don't care about his bowl game. If he struggled I'd be concerned but he only confirmed what I've seen. I'm sure you feel the same way but your post makes it seem like you're reacting to one game. Just clarifying here.

nah im saying ive always thought highly of him, but to see a player on perhaps the biggest game of his career thus far, come out and absolutely tear it up like that, its just another great addition to his resume`, and obviously a bowl game being his last college game ever and catching 3 td's, well that will only help his case. also i like to see a strong college career reinforced with big game performances, kinda makes me feel like he wont be intimidated by the NFL like some rookies can be, no moment is too big for him. 

 

so really just saying that while i thought of him as a top 10 guy before, a 3td bowl game would bump him a spot or 2 compared to a guy like vh3 who got torched in his big game.

[GrimCoconut]

nah im saying ive always thought highly of him, but to see a player on perhaps the biggest game of his career thus far, come out and absolutely tear it up like that, its just another great addition to his resume`, and obviously a bowl game being his last college game ever and catching 3 td's, well that will only help his case. also i like to see a strong college career reinforced with big game performances, kinda makes me feel like he wont be intimidated by the NFL like some rookies can be, no moment is too big for him.

so really just saying that while i thought of him as a top 10 guy before, a 3td bowl game would bump him a spot or 2 compared to a guy like vh3 who got torched in his big game.

Yeah that's pretty much what I was saying. If I didn't get that across then that's what I meant. I meant to clarify for others and not for you to clarify for me. I figured that's what you meant.

[52liveforever]

Kinda off topic, but the name was dropped here sooo I'll ask... Does Yannick really drop to the round 3-5 range? I see this grade on him on big boards all over. How is this so?

[Clmraven]

Who do you have ahead of him? This isn't a rhetorical question.

For me he's always been the top WR but after analyzing our season and struggles and reasons why we lost combined with constant failures against the Bengals, I feel Treadwell jumps up high on my board. Combine this with the fact that this is Smith's final year and we have no idea what to expect from Perriman makes me nervous in terms of our WR.

I really like Stanley and Tunsil. I'd take them over Treadwell. That said, I can see why we'd take Treadwell over them if we re-signef KO. While I wouldn't complain if we re-signed KO and drafted a LT high, would you be happy with that?

I don't see a lot of elite talents in this class.

Right now i still have Bosa Tunsil Vh3 maybe Stanley, and while not as much of a need as WR I still have guys like Buckner and Ashawn Robinson rated higher based on talent rather than need.

[GrimCoconut]

Kinda off topic, but the name was dropped here sooo I'll ask... Does Yannick really drop to the round 3-5 range? I see this grade on him on big boards all over. How is this so?

I'm not really sure why because he's a really good prospect imo. If I had to guess then I'd say because there are doubts about him outside the 3-4 so maybe teams want more upside and versatility. I think his range is 2-4, personally.

[JoeyFlex5]

Kinda off topic, but the name was dropped here sooo I'll ask... Does Yannick really drop to the round 3-5 range? I see this grade on him on big boards all over. How is this so?

you can bet ur last dollar he doesnt fall to the 3rd barring an offseason arrest or something. media outlets will have their invalid opinions and obviously maryland prospects are gonna struggle to break into the mainstream outlets, but pro scouts know better. theyve taken notice after he finished 2nd in the nation in sacks against big ten offensive lines with no supporting cast.

[Deflated Football]

I'll be shocked if Ozzie doesn't take Treadwell. Tough, reliable hands, great route runner, built for the North and is the perfect compliment to BP (or the other way around). The WR position is just as important as any other position on the team in terms of need, and we have to stop with the signing of aging vets unless it's for that 3 or 4 spot. 

[Orange_Peanut]

You are a special WR when your game tape shows you laying mean blocks on LINEBACKERS. Laquon is the WR version of Cam Newton.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Orange_Peanut