Who should we take at #6?

[Gordo52]

I can promise with 100% certainty that our FO is not gonna value Ramsey over bosa lol. Unless youre just giving your personal board

It's my favorites for us in order. Ramsey & Bosa are in their own tier of superstar IMO. At least for the upper portion of the draft I've looked at so far. 1A-1B

[Clmraven]

It's my favorites for us in order. Ramsey & Bosa are in their own tier of superstar IMO. At least for the upper portion of the draft I've looked at so far. 1A-1B

What position do you see Ramsey playing if we draft him? I'm kinda scared to draft someone that high who doesn't really have a sure position.

[BmoreBird22]

With Hue Jackson basically announcing that the Browns are drafting a QB at #2 Joey Bosa had a good chance of falling to us; a scenario I'd be ok with if it weren't for a few issues.

•Commitment- I recall after a bad game this season in which he had 3 false starts Bosa was asked if he'd review the game tape and he replied with a no, if Ed or Ray were there they'd punch him in the face for that

•stiffness

•suspension-currently unknown what happened

•inexperience in 3-4

•GAPING hole at #CB

There's little chance he falls past Dallas.

[JoeyFlex5]

It's my favorites for us in order. Ramsey & Bosa are in their own tier of superstar IMO. At least for the upper portion of the draft I've looked at so far. 1A-1B

ok lol I figured it was personal preference just didn't want you to get your hopes up on that, Steve would probably be fine with Ozzie considering how bad he wants an edge rusher.

Also I think if you watch film on buckner you'll be adding another player to your superstar tier

Edited January 17, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[Cillmatic]

There's little chance he falls past Dallas.

They need a secondary more than they need Bosa

[BmoreBird22]

They need a secondary more than they need Bosa

BPA and that's debatable that they need secondary more than another young DE

[BmoreBird22]

Dallas traded up for Claiborne, who could be a cap casualty with Carr. Sean Lee and Hitchens played very well last year. They may need a LB to replace McClain if he leaves but that's debatable. They could use a DL like Buckner but we'll see. They are certainly a threat.

I think Jacksonville wants Ramsey more. I think they'll take Ramsey if he's there.

Claiborne is actually a FA, but they still have Scandrick who played exceedingly well in 2014 and their now former first round rookie in Byron Jones. They'd be essentially looking to draft a nickel back. I think there are plenty of talents in the second round for that.

 

Sean Lee has finally played a(n) (almost) full season after missing significant time in the prior three seasons. Can they truly count on him to stay healthy? I suppose the move to OLB could preserve his longevity, but that's no guarantee for someone who's torn his ACL three times. 

 

I could see them definitely going Bosa since I think picks one and two will be Tunsil, Goff.

 

I think they'd value VH3 over Ramsey, but they could also just want the best pure cover corner and that, to me, is Alexander.

[Gordo52]

ok lol I figured it was personal preference just didn't want you to get your hopes up on that, Steve would probably be fine with Ozzie considering how bad he wants an edge rusher.

Also I think if you watch film on buckner you'll be adding another player to your superstar tier

He's 3rd on my list and I definitely feel he has high potential.

Not a knock on him, that's just how high I value Ramsey & Bosa. I see Jack having that same potential as well.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Gordo52

[Gordo52]

What position do you see Ramsey playing if we draft him? I'm kinda scared to draft someone that high who doesn't really have a sure position.

He'll play all over. A lot depends on the defense around him but I love that versatility he brings. I think he should make an excellent safety who will also play man coverage at a high level when needed. Edited January 17, 2016 by Gordo52

[Italian Raven]

With Hue Jackson basically announcing that the Browns are drafting a QB at #2 Joey Bosa had a good chance of falling to us; a scenario I'd be ok with if it weren't for a few issues.

•Commitment- I recall after a bad game this season in which he had 3 false starts Bosa was asked if he'd review the game tape and he replied with a no, if Ed or Ray were there they'd punch him in the face for that

•stiffness

•suspension-currently unknown what happened

•inexperience in 3-4

•GAPING hole at #CB

I agree on every point and add that was this year's MSU game.

He played 65 snaps (those 3 offsides are not included), 8 of which he was unblocked (9%) and 10 double-teams (11%, I considered the RB chips in assistance to the T as double-teams too).

I was just curious to verify this legendary amount of double-triple teams that Bosa faced and that everyone writes about, last but not least Kiper, so I started to write down every play of a relatively small sample (7 games).

It turned out that yes, teams have to take his presence into account, as they tend to play a lot of screens or options, but that stat alone doesn't match the hype it received.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Italian Raven

[Cillmatic]

Perriman's injury really puts us in a quagmire. We don't know how big the need for a WR is because we have yet to see him play AND we sacrificed Campanero's progression by putting him on IR in the hopes that Perriman would come back.

[Wildabeast88]

With Hue Jackson basically announcing that the Browns are drafting a QB at #2 Joey Bosa had a good chance of falling to us; a scenario I'd be ok with if it weren't for a few issues.

•Commitment- I recall after a bad game this season in which he had 3 false starts Bosa was asked if he'd review the game tape and he replied with a no, if Ed or Ray were there they'd punch him in the face for that

•stiffness

•suspension-currently unknown what happened

•inexperience in 3-4

•GAPING hole at #CB

suspension had something to do with an agent/benefits from what I had read. also the game tape thing you get lots of crazy answers after a loss so I will not hold that against him. remember pass rush helps the CBs look better too

[Sizzlebshu]

I can't imagine any world where the chargers, cowboys and jags pass on him. 

 

Fwiw, if the Browns go QB over Bosa, they will forever suck. 

Edited January 18, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[GrimCoconut]

I can't imagine any world where the chargers, cowboys and jags pass on him. 

 

Fwiw, if the Browns go QB over Bosa, they will forever suck. 

Honest question: if Spence didn't get kicked out of the Big 10, do you:

 

1.) Think Spence would be higher than Bosa?

2.) Think Bosa would've declared?

3.) Think Spence & Bosa would've had more productive years?

4.) Do you think the drug thing ultimately affects him considering how it has affected guys like Jernigan, Houston, Jimmy Smith, & Gregory to name a few?

[ravefan52]

Perriman's injury really puts us in a quagmire. We don't know how big the need for a WR is because we have yet to see him play AND we sacrificed Campanero's progression by putting him on IR in the hopes that Perriman would come back.

And Smith is a question mark at 37 years old next year coming off a serious injury. I know I know, don't doubt Steve Smith. I wouldn't be surprised if he came back just as strong, but you gotta be realistic and prepare for the worst.

[ravensnick]

Honest question: if Spence didn't get kicked out of the Big 10, do you:

 

1.) Think Spence would be higher than Bosa?

2.) Think Bosa would've declared?

3.) Think Spence & Bosa would've had more productive years?

4.) Do you think the drug thing ultimately affects him considering how it has affected guys like Jernigan, Houston, Jimmy Smith, & Gregory to name a few?

I don't think the drug thing effect Spence as much because he admitted his problem and went back to school for a year instead of coming out with drug problems.

[GrimCoconut]

I don't think the drug thing effect Spence as much because he admitted his problem and went back to school for a year instead of coming out with drug problems.

That's true but Jimmy Smith dropped and he went in the low 20s mainly because of I think (one, maybe two, can't recall off the top of my head) marijuana tests. Pretty sure it was one. He was considered a top-CB talent but fell from it. Granted, this was in 2011 and it's now 2015 and there is a different environment, to an extent, in terms of marijuana but it's still a similar principle. Marijuana is also less severe and less stigmatized than ecstasy. I think it does drop his stock, although what's favorable for him is the year in which he is declaring, since this year is rather weak. 

 

Still, if Tyrann Mathieu, once considered a top DB prospect, could fall to the 3rd round after a more severe but similar situation, then I think it is very possible than Spence sees himself drop as well. I think his range is low 1st, high 3rd round. It all depends on how important teams find his history. I personally would consider him with our 2nd round pick, depending on who's there. 

[ravensnick]

That's true but Jimmy Smith dropped and he went in the low 20s mainly because of I think (one, maybe two, can't recall off the top of my head) marijuana tests. Pretty sure it was one. He was considered a top-CB talent but fell from it. Granted, this was in 2011 and it's now 2015 and there is a different environment, to an extent, in terms of marijuana but it's still a similar principle. Marijuana is also less severe and less stigmatized than ecstasy. I think it does drop his stock, although what's favorable for him is the year in which he is declaring, since this year is rather weak. 

 

Still, if Tyrann Mathieu, once considered a top DB prospect, could fall to the 3rd round after a more severe but similar situation, then I think it is very possible than Spence sees himself drop as well. I think his range is low 1st, high 3rd round. It all depends on how important teams find his history. I personally would consider him with our 2nd round pick, depending on who's there. 

True enough. Spence is very talented and its scary to thing what OSU's defensive line could have been this year. 

[Sizzlebshu]

Honest question: if Spence didn't get kicked out of the Big 10, do you:

 

1.) Think Spence would be higher than Bosa?

2.) Think Bosa would've declared?

3.) Think Spence & Bosa would've had more productive years?

4.) Do you think the drug thing ultimately affects him considering how it has affected guys like Jernigan, Houston, Jimmy Smith, & Gregory to name a few?

 

1. No. Bosa is more productive and has shown to be on his own. I do think Bosa is a 43 only type player tho. 

 

2. Yes

 

3. Yes

 

4. No. Why? Frank Clark. Greg Hardy. Randy Gregory. All of these players dropped and other teams took them and were better for it. This league can't afford to take moral stances anymore because now it affects their job security. 

[ravensnick]

1. No. Bosa is more productive and has shown to be on his own. I do think Bosa is a 43 only type player tho. 

 

2. Yes

 

3. Yes

 

4. No. Why? Frank Clark. Greg Hardy. Randy Gregory. All of these players dropped and other teams took them and were better for it. This league can't afford to take moral stances anymore because now it affects their job security. 

I'd argue Gregory dropped more because of his weight and motivation concerns than his drug issues as well. 

[rmw10]

Also talking about a few guys that failed their tests at the combine.  At that point, there wasn't as much time to dig into them.  They still went high, but Gregory, Houston, and Jernigan all took some relatively big falls because of those issues.  In the case of Spence, he's reportedly been clean for awhile and teams have much more time to dig into his character.

[GrimCoconut]

1. No. Bosa is more productive and has shown to be on his own. I do think Bosa is a 43 only type player tho. 

 

2. Yes

 

3. Yes

 

4. No. Why? Frank Clark. Greg Hardy. Randy Gregory. All of these players dropped and other teams took them and were better for it. This league can't afford to take moral stances anymore because now it affects their job security. 

Yeah, I'd agree at least on the first three, and maybe on the 4th. Bosa is very different than Spence. Spence is more like a traditional 3-4 OLB 4-3 DE, but more of the former than the latter. Bosa doesn't bend well but he is strong & converts explosion when he gets off the line at the point of attack & manages to will his man into the QB. I'm really impressed by him. He's so disruptive as a pass rusher. I do wonder how well he'll fit, but I think he would work in the 3-4. I think if Bosa falls that may be the reason why. I don't think he will run the fastest 40 & I think the very nature of his bend could cause teams to wonder if he'll fit the 3-4 & cause them to pass on him for others. 

 

That said, they'd be crazy to do it. He's the type of player that can take over a game, but teams make that mistake before. Bad GMs typically pick high, and we do have some bad GMs picking high again. We'll see if the trend continues. Would you take Spence at #6? Just curious here. 

 

As for your 4th point, I don't know about it. Yes, we've seen that, but then again we've also seen guys like Mathieu fall. It's not so clear-cut. Yes, they could get fired for missing on a prospect due to drug problems, but then again, what if they take that player with these problems & they continue & cause the prospect to not pan out? They'll also probably lose their job then, too. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

[DR32]

Why does no one mention Robert Nkemdiche?  He looks like a big time game changer to me.  Has he taken a that big of a hit because of his character issues?  I think he is a player that will definitely blow people away at the combine.  

[Sizzlebshu]

I'd argue Gregory dropped more because of his weight and motivation concerns than his drug issues as well. 

In a draft with only about half the players having first round grades, I have to think Gregory was one of them (clark as well)

Edited January 18, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[Sizzlebshu]

Yeah, I'd agree at least on the first three, and maybe on the 4th. Bosa is very different than Spence. Spence is more like a traditional 3-4 OLB 4-3 DE, but more of the former than the latter. Bosa doesn't bend well but he is strong & converts explosion when he gets off the line at the point of attack & manages to will his man into the QB. I'm really impressed by him. He's so disruptive as a pass rusher. I do wonder how well he'll fit, but I think he would work in the 3-4. I think if Bosa falls that may be the reason why. I don't think he will run the fastest 40 & I think the very nature of his bend could cause teams to wonder if he'll fit the 3-4 & cause them to pass on him for others. 

 

That said, they'd be crazy to do it. He's the type of player that can take over a game, but teams make that mistake before. Bad GMs typically pick high, and we do have some bad GMs picking high again. We'll see if the trend continues. Would you take Spence at #6? Just curious here. 

 

As for your 4th point, I don't know about it. Yes, we've seen that, but then again we've also seen guys like Mathieu fall. It's not so clear-cut. Yes, they could get fired for missing on a prospect due to drug problems, but then again, what if they take that player with these problems & they continue & cause the prospect to not pan out? They'll also probably lose their job then, too. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

I'd take Spence at #3. 

 

Mathieu had other concerns such as size and durability. Essentially you take all that risk for a guy that may not end up being able to deal with the physical requirements of the nfl anyway. Spence is more akin to Josh Gordon. There is risk, but if you hit on him you  have a game changer. To be fair Gordon has worked out well for the Browns (his latest ban was stupid and a result of the drug program being extremely strict with all substances. He stopped smoking pot which was the accusation against him and all you can ask.)

 

My solution is just the nfl ban these prospects from being drafted. If you have a criminal allegation pending or resolved against you or fail the combine drug test, you must enter the NFL as a UDFA. Simple and it works well for everyone. 

Edited January 18, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[ellicottraven]

I believe the Ravens scouting machine is out in full force scouring the nation for top talent. I also believe that somebody that is highly regarded as a top 3-5 talent will slide down to us. Whether that someone is high on our board is another matter. More likely than not, Ozzie will be looking aggressively to trade down, especially to between 10-14 selections in the 1st round with a first rounder for next year thrown in as well. If that happens I can foresee a CB such as Mackenzie Alexander being our first pick.

[SammyG]

I really think that if we stand pat at 6, with Tunsil and Bosa off the board, it's gotta be treadwell. Ramsey is high risk high reward. VH3 has big concerns for me and Alexander after watching more tape has soured on me because he can't tackle. I hate Stanley btw especially at 6. I think we will probably trade back and take Floyd because Dallas will take Treadwell.

[SammyG]

I believe the Ravens scouting machine is out in full force scouring the nation for top talent. I also believe that somebody that is highly regarded as a top 3-5 talent will slide down to us. Whether that someone is high on our board is another matter. More likely than not, Ozzie will be looking aggressively to trade down, especially to between 10-14 selections in the 1st round with a first rounder for next year thrown in as well. If that happens I can foresee a CB such as Mackenzie Alexander being our first pick.

 

If that is the case, I hope Frazier can whip him into NFL shape

[Jaybirds]

This may be a bad idea for a first post, but here it goes: 

I'm not much of a football guy.  I am much of a numbers guy.  And the number really jumping out at me right now is Kevin White's $4.1million salary after being taken 7th overall last year.  (a WR going 7th compared to our pick at 6 seems like a decent comparison). 

Steve Smith made around $3.5 million last year.
Perriman:  $2.17 million-ish
Aiken:  $585,000 (for 900 yards?  quite the bargain)

So if we're talking about taking a WR at sixth overall, for that money it seems like he has to be a starter right away, Day 1, from OTAs on.   He has to be a guy that could force Steve Smith to the bench this year.  $4.1 million is a lot for our #3 or 4 guy. 

I don't think Treadwell is that guy.  I'm not even sure there is a guy we'd value at $4.1 million, but based on how our team is built (from a cap point of view) it's not likely to be a WR.  Not even Treadwell. 

I understand Perriman can't be considered a starter for certain; he hasn't played a game yet.  But our coaches and FO have seen a lot more of him than any WR in the draft.  He's less of a variable at this point. 

[Club Sec. 217 Seat 2]

yes, and he plays in the conference closest to the NFL in terms of offensive line and offensive systems. 

 

big 10 and SEC players are just hard for me to deny unless i see obvious bust in them. if bosa came from the pac10 or ACC or even the big12 i would be concerned(see, ogbah), but i think his level of competition and the fact that he faces triple teams regularly and still produces is very special. 

 

while i understand concerns over bosa, and i myself have some, mostly about his work ethic, which btw i think is overblown, when you consider all the factors, him dominating a championship run and winning it all, being the best defender in college football, and the fact that he took this year to round out his skillset and has done so successfully, you cant really blame him if he seems like his motor has fallen back, hes trying to play smart football this year and i applaud that. the kids a game wrecker in the run game and in the pass rush, and he has the athleticism to slim down 10 lbs and become a legit 3 down OLB as well, hes very smart, very aware, and plays with good overall technique.

 

For me, I have a tough time getting on board with Bosa for the sole fact that if this kid is going to be something in the NFL it is going to be in a JJ Watt type style.  My question is if he can be that type of player.  JJ is massive but he is also super technical with his moves and quick with his hands.  Bosa is not overly athletic he is just massive and heavy.  I think he can be solid and disruptive but I am just not so sure he is this cant miss defensive prospect bc he could possibly be the best defensive player in college ball.  I just feel like he is the mainstream pick that everyone assumes is just going to be good bc he was in college.