Jalen Ramsey - most polarizing prospect among ravens fans.

[BmoreBird22]

hes great in press but i wouldnt call him a press corner, hes just a shutdown corner in general, any kind of man coverage and hes nearly impossible to beat (unless ur steve smith apparently). but in tampa when he was asked to play a lot of zone he really was average, granted they had nothing to offer anywhere on defense and they were still asking him to play out of character, but he was average nonetheless, and the whole league knew it which is why he went to more scheme friendly teams under fat contracts lol

I would imagine some of that had to do with his ACL, too, though. I'd play him in man all day long, but I wouldn't limit him to just man coverage

[JoeyFlex5]

I would imagine some of that had to do with his ACL, too, though. I'd play him in man all day long, but I wouldn't limit him to just man coverage

yea i forgot about that im not gonna lie lol. 

 

me though? i dont see any need to play around with a guy like that, let him eliminate one side of the field and squish the rest of the secondary to the opposite side and blitz like hell, say what you want about rex ryan but i LOVE how he coordinated with revis on the field, thats how you use your roster to its strengths.

[Cillmatic]

revis is pretty average in zone coverage.

Revis isn't a safety.

[JoeyFlex5]

Revis isn't a safety.

thought we were speaking in terms of cb since we were referring to a players ability in press coverage

[BmoreBird22]

yea i forgot about that im not gonna lie lol. 

 

me though? i dont see any need to play around with a guy like that, let him eliminate one side of the field and squish the rest of the secondary to the opposite side and blitz like hell, say what you want about rex ryan but i LOVE how he coordinated with revis on the field, thats how you use your roster to its strengths.

But I will say, he's not invincible and that's why I would mix things up a bit.

 

I just remember an article comparing Sherman and Revis and Revis almost always had zero safety help or linebacker support over the top in New York, but of course, Sherman played in a cover 3 and Thomas was there to be over the top.

[January J]

Every time I watch Ramsey play I just clearly see him in black and purple. I'm so torn between who I would take, but one thing for sure is if we took Ramsey I'd be excited regardless. I'm almost 100% sure ozzie will take him if he's there. There's almost no doubt in my mind.

Edited January 20, 2016 by January J

[GrimCoconut]

Every time I watch Ramsey play I just clearly see him in black and purple. I'm so torn between who I would take, but one thing for sure is if we took Ramsey I'd be excited regardless. I'm almost 100% sure ozzie will take him if he's there. There's almost no doubt in my mind.

Couldn't agree more. Here's what I expect our ranking to be:

1. Bosa

2. Tunsil

3. Ramsey

4. Jack

5. Spence

6. Smith*

7. Buckner

I think pass rusher will have a very heavy emphasis. I'm still watching prospects and reading up on them here and there, but I think this is very much our thinking. Interviews and injury updates will player a major role here

[Club Sec. 217 Seat 2]

If he can't play zone like a pro he's not worth taking, especially at #6 overall; safeties NEED to be able to play zone at a high level to succeed.

 

I don't see Alexander as a top 10 player at all...but I thought we were talking about Alexander here and he is most definitely not a safety.

[JoeyFlex5]

ok guys, i have recently began to come around for ramsey, and heres why... 

 

i dont think he is gonna be a free safety, at least not as a youngster, however, if he responds well to the great coachings of leslie frazier, he could be a stud FS in the future, learning how to sink those hips better to make the breaks as fast as possible will be crucial for him if hes playing FS, if you play a position that requires you to cover long ranges in short time periods then you cant waste even a millisecond with an average take off, if frazier can help with that and we can get the kid hooked on film study then i think he can be a real FS. 

 

however, even if he doesnt become that and he is just an absolute stud SS and part time cb, lets go over that... 

every team in the division, and every team we may face in the playoffs, has a stud TE(except for the steelers). the bengals have a 6'5" downfield assassin in aj green who has killed us in the past, josh gordon has applied for reinstatement, and ramsey has the length and insane athleticism to handle these guys in a toss up situation, he could be the answer to stopping the big bodied guys that have killed us for so long. thats as a cb, as a SS, we have will hill, who at times is our best player, at other times he is a liability, he offers some streaky play, ramsey is a very similar skillset but his floor is about where hills ceiling is, in the right role he will make plays against rbs, wrs, tes, and even in the backfield, his physicality and nastiness will be a welcomed sight when he is stripping balls and swatting them out of the air, and screens have been a problem for us as well, i dont think that will fly with ramsey on the field. 

 

3rd point, he gives us leverage, moving on from webb and not having to worry about re-signing will hill would be an absolute godsend for this teams cap situation, and i think a player like ramsey gives us the comfort to do both, and not only be ok, but actually improve with 1 player over 2.

 

he may not be the savior to our defense, but i have looked back over ramsey a bit more, and looked at the teams situation, and realized that even though he may not be what the media says he is (some elite rangey ballhawking FS, he just isnt that) he still offers an incredible amount of talent and will be a very nice addition with his feistiness and explosiveness. i would still take buckner, tunsil, and i would consider bosa, vh3, treadwell, and stanley, but i would no longer automatically toss ramseys name out of the hat if those guys are available, i just feel like i was nitpicking on him way too hard because of a few flaws.

[rmw10]

I still don't get the disdain for Ramsey.  I believe too many people are looking at what he did and not what he can do.  He's a guy that can play a myriad of different roles and play them all really well.  There's a ton of value in a guy like that.

[52520Andrew]

I still don't get the disdain for Ramsey. I believe too many people are looking at what he did and not what he can do. He's a guy that can play a myriad of different roles and play them all really well. There's a ton of value in a guy like that.

Yeah I like Ramsey a lot and as much as I have gone on about Jack, I'd take Ramsey over him(kinda why it is hard for me to argue against what he can do for us lol)

[Cillmatic]

This Ramsey love affair is becoming a cult of personality. We need a player that is safe and established at a position, not a guy we HOPE is a Tyrann clone. People forget that a top 10 pick is like a once in ten year occurrence for this team, we should use it on a position that is lacking and the player needs to have an immediately good impact; if the player doesn't even have a position it's gonna be hard to realize that standard. This guys has had almost no snaps in tradition SS or FS snaps yet people think he's gonna be an elite FS. And if you expect him to play CB have fun with a project player being taken at #6 overall. If you want someone who can cover, move to corner and actually stay on the field for ALL the snaps just look at Myles Jack; Ramsey will probably be a situational player in our system. No one ever addresses these.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Cillmatic

[January J]

It's been awhile since I've seen a prospect that had so many people split down the middle. Most people either love him or hate him.

Edited January 21, 2016 by January J

[Cillmatic]

It's been awhile since I've seen a prospect that had so many people split down the middle. Most people either love him or hate him.

It's like teenage girls arguing about their favorite Twilight character.

[52520Andrew]

It's been awhile since I've seen a prospect that had so many people split down the middle. Most people either love him or hate him.

You should have seen Mike Evans

[JoeyFlex5]

This Ramsey love affair is becoming a cult of personality. We need a player that is safe and established at a position, not a guy we HOPE is a Tyrann clone. People forget that a top 10 pick is like a once in ten year occurrence for this team, we should use it on a position that is lacking and the player needs to have an immediately good impact; if the player doesn't even have a position it's gonna be hard to realize that standard. This guys has had almost no snaps in tradition SS or FS snaps yet people think he's gonna be an elite FS. And if you expect him to play CB have fun with a project player being taken at #6 overall. If you want someone who can cover, move to corner and actually stay on the field for ALL the snaps just look at Myles Jack; Ramsey will probably be a situational player in our system.

id argue that ramsey certainly can do myles jack best asset better than he can(man coverage), and ramsey being a DB and jack being a LB, i think ramsey could have a bigger impact on the front seven as well, since jack very well could be far too soft to hold up as a real ILB in a nfl 3-4, but ramsey as a SS could be a hell of a handful for opposing offenses to deal with on all 3 downs as he can do so many different things at such an incredibly high level. as well as he does in press coverage, inermediate roaming, blitzing, run support, playing the ball and batting passes, he doesnt NEED to roam deep and be a 10int FS, he will be extremely productive in another role.

 

single high ballhawking free safeties are simply very very hard to find, and they are even harder to quantify, since its hard to judge a players film study and the application of it, which is what separate a rangy FS from a ballhawk. 

[Cillmatic]

id argue that ramsey certainly can do myles jack best asset better than he can(man coverage), and ramsey being a DB and jack being a LB, i think ramsey could have a bigger impact on the front seven as well, since jack very well could be far too soft to hold up as a real ILB in a nfl 3-4, but ramsey as a SS could be a hell of a handful for opposing offenses to deal with on all 3 downs as he can do so many different things at such an incredibly high level. as well as he does in press coverage, inermediate roaming, blitzing, run support, playing the ball and batting passes, he doesnt NEED to roam deep and be a 10int FS, he will be extremely productive in another role.

single high ballhawking free safeties are simply very very hard to find, and they are even harder to quantify, since its hard to judge a players film study and the application of it, which is what separate a rangy FS from a ballhawk.

1. We don't need a SS

2. If we want someone to press we'll just get a CB

3. We don't need a roamer

This team has actual NEEDS, why are we ignoring them? The bottom line is our MLB's suck in coverage, we have a hole at CB and we don't have a pass rush. Ramsey doesn't solve any of that unless he plans on gaining ALOT of weight.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Cillmatic

[JoeyFlex5]

1. We don't need a SS

2. If we want someone to press we'll just get a CB

3. We don't need a roamer

This team has actual NEEDS, why are we ignoring them? The bottom line is our MLB's suck in coverage, we have a hole at CB and we don't have a pass rush. Ramsey doesn't solve any of that unless he plans on gaining ALOT of weight.

1. will hill was streaky last year and is only under a tender, we have no idea what happens there and if we cant retain him after next year, which is not farfetched at all, then our safety group goes from bad to pop warner. 

2. lets look at the cbs at 6, vh3 cant press a stamp to an envelope, alexander is still a huge question mark in all areas except for mirroring. at least we know ramsey can press full time if asked and can defend the pass very well 

3. we need a playmaker, ramsey is a playmaker. we need coverage, ramsey can cover an area of the field that is very often exploited against us, the middle intermediate was as much a liability as the deep outside. 

 

this team has needs which include help in coverage and speed in general, our defense is slow, our secondary is slow, our LBs are slow, our edge rushers are slow, ramsey would add an element of explosiveness that will be used well in every area of the field. drafting a coverage linebacker who is a liability against the run takes away from one problem and begins creating another, if we operate with you mindstate we will be begging for some DTs who can stop the run in no time!

[GrimCoconut]

I still don't get the disdain for Ramsey.  I believe too many people are looking at what he did and not what he can do.  He's a guy that can play a myriad of different roles and play them all really well.  There's a ton of value in a guy like that.

Yeah I like Ramsey a lot and as much as I have gone on about Jack, I'd take Ramsey over him(kinda why it is hard for me to argue against what he can do for us lol)

I think the issue is he is a very boom-or-bust prospect that will require serious NFL coaching to refine his technique to maximize his potential. He also has that on-the-field attitude that makes you wonder if he will be able to take coaching, but it doesn't seem to be an actual problem based off of everything I read. So, essentially, he's got Marcus Peters-like intensity (I'm not saying he's about to punch a coach) & will need more refinement in the NFL to actually win against NFL talent, where he can't win solely off athleticism. I expect him to rely on his athleticism initially, which will eventually cause him to get beat & lose. This is where I will expect him to boom or bust. He'll either rise to the occasion, clean up his technique, or think he can survive off of his athleticism, which will eventually fade away & he'll be a mediocre player that "could've been." 

 

That said, this guy looks like a real competitor. He also has very good work ethic based off of everything I've read. So, basically, he's got the work ethic & the athleticism to become probably the best at his position in the NFL. His hips are a bit tight, but that doesn't mean he can't compensate for that. I've seen this same knock on CBs before & I have seen some compensate & overcome while others haven't. 

 

Here are some articles on his work ethic:

 

 

Take this example as evidence of his work ethic. It’s past midnight in June, over two months away from the start of the college football regular season. That doesn’t mean anything to Ramsey. He still wants to work out.

Read more at http://fanbuzz.rare.us/story/jalen-ramsey-wants-to-do-workouts-past-midnight-because-hes-bored/#etUWMKjCiqkDZOSe.99

http://fanbuzz.rare.us/story/jalen-ramsey-wants-to-do-workouts-past-midnight-because-hes-bored/

 

 

In preparation for his sophomore campaign where he will play multiple positions, in addition to being a team leader for the reigning national champions, Ramsey has spent countless hours in the Seminoles' meeting rooms watching film of former FSU defensive back Lamarcus Joyner.

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/football/2014/08/24/jalen-ramsey-fsu-star/14536469/

 

He's a leader & a motivator, which is what a lot of people here said they wanted, a problem evident when we lost Suggs 

 

 

Junior cornerback P.J. Williams added: "I love playing with Jalen. He's a character. … He'll be out there energetic and he talks a lot. He'll lead the team, he'll talk junk to the wide receivers, but he's got a lot of room to talk because he's a great player."

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/football/2014/08/24/jalen-ramsey-fsu-star/14536469/

 

Although I suppose it's fair to wonder just how much he loves football since he wants to do the Olympics one day:

http://www.seminoles.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=210438106

 

This Ramsey love affair is becoming a cult of personality. We need a player that is safe and established at a position, not a guy we HOPE is a Tyrann clone. People forget that a top 10 pick is like a once in ten year occurrence for this team, we should use it on a position that is lacking and the player needs to have an immediately good impact; if the player doesn't even have a position it's gonna be hard to realize that standard. This guys has had almost no snaps in tradition SS or FS snaps yet people think he's gonna be an elite FS. And if you expect him to play CB have fun with a project player being taken at #6 overall. If you want someone who can cover, move to corner and actually stay on the field for ALL the snaps just look at Myles Jack; Ramsey will probably be a situational player in our system. No one ever addresses these.

I think this idea that he's a Mathieu clone is completely wrong. I think he's far better than Mathieu, who wasn't at all a bad prospect coming out of LSU. People think that just because he was a 3rd round pick he was a scrub. He only fell to the 3rd because of his little thing with marijuana that caused him serious problems. He would've been a first round pick, likely a very high one, if not a top-10 pick. Furthermore, Ramsey is more athletic & has better size than The Honey Badger. I think the comparison is very unfair to Ramsey. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[GrimCoconut]

1. will hill was streaky last year and is only under a tender, we have no idea what happens there and if we cant retain him after next year, which is not farfetched at all, then our safety group goes from bad to pop warner. 

2. lets look at the cbs at 6, vh3 cant press a stamp to an envelope, alexander is still a huge question mark in all areas except for mirroring. at least we know ramsey can press full time if asked and can defend the pass very well 

3. we need a playmaker, ramsey is a playmaker. we need coverage, ramsey can cover an area of the field that is very often exploited against us, the middle intermediate was as much a liability as the deep outside. 

 

this team has needs which include help in coverage and speed in general, our defense is slow, our secondary is slow, our LBs are slow, our edge rushers are slow, ramsey would add an element of explosiveness that will be used well in every area of the field. drafting a coverage linebacker who is a liability against the run takes away from one problem and begins creating another, if we operate with you mindstate we will be begging for some DTs who can stop the run in no time!

Will Hill was signed to a two-year deal, which does expire after the 2016 season, so yeah. This safety class is also pretty elite. I love it. I hope we grab multiple guys. Lol. 

[JoeyFlex5]

Will Hill was signed to a two-year deal, which does expire after the 2016 season, so yeah. This safety class is also pretty elite. I love it. I hope we grab multiple guys. Lol. 

i could have sworn he was under a tender, but still, different story, same ending lol. 

 

as far as multiple guys go... i wouldnt mind seeing ramsey and then apple or fuller in the 2nd, or darian thompson in the 3rd, i think that would be a damn good way to say we are forreal about fixing the secondary and i think it would work. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[GrimCoconut]

i could have sworn he was under a tender, but still, different story, same ending lol. 

 

as far as multiple guys go... i wouldnt mind seeing ramsey and then apple or fuller in the 2nd, or darian thompson in the 3rd, i think that would be a damn good way to say we are forreal about fixing the secondary and i think it would work. 

I knew he was signed to an extension because it just happened, but I had to check to see just how it worked. I wasn't sure if it expired in 2016 or the 2017 season. It is the 2016 season, though.

 

http://overthecap.com/player/will-hill/904

 

So, in 2016 Will Hill, Trawick (already an RFA, although I expect him to get tendered or re-signed for cheap since he's ST), Elam will have their contracts expire & Webb, Lewis, & Brooks all have their contracts expire in 2017. Lol. So, we have no safeties signed beyond two years on this team.

Edited January 21, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[Cillmatic]

1. will hill was streaky last year and is only under a tender, we have no idea what happens there and if we cant retain him after next year, which is not farfetched at all, then our safety group goes from bad to pop warner.

2. lets look at the cbs at 6, vh3 cant press a stamp to an envelope, alexander is still a huge question mark in all areas except for mirroring. at least we know ramsey can press full time if asked and can defend the pass very well

3. we need a playmaker, ramsey is a playmaker. we need coverage, ramsey can cover an area of the field that is very often exploited against us, the middle intermediate was as much a liability as the deep outside.

this team has needs which include help in coverage and speed in general, our defense is slow, our secondary is slow, our LBs are slow, our edge rushers are slow, ramsey would add an element of explosiveness that will be used well in every area of the field. drafting a coverage linebacker who is a liability against the run takes away from one problem and begins creating another, if we operate with you mindstate we will be begging for some DTs who can stop the run in no time!

Why do we need a presser then? Why not just have a good cornerback or just look in FA? VH3 is a playmaker too.

[Cillmatic]

I still don't get the disdain for Ramsey. I believe too many people are looking at what he did and not what he can do. He's a guy that can play a myriad of different roles and play them all really well. There's a ton of value in a guy like that.

"looking at what he did and not what he can do"

THIS is how busts get drafted. In the top 10 you draft players who PLAYED great, not players that might be able to play great.

Does anyone even know where he'd be on the depth chart?

Edited January 21, 2016 by Cillmatic

[rmw10]

"looking at what he did and not what he can do"

THIS is how busts get drafted. In the top 10 you draft players who PLAYED great, not players that might be able to play great.

 

No, not really.  Did he play close to the LOS?  Yes, he did.  That doesn't mean he can't play as a deep FS.  How a player is used in college does not equal what he can do in the NFL.

 

Also, let's not act like Ramsey wasn't one of the top college players in the nation.  He has played great, and in many different roles as well.

[GrimCoconut]

"looking at what he did and not what he can do"

THIS is how busts get drafted. In the top 10 you draft players who PLAYED great, not players that might be able to play great.

Does anyone even know where he'd be on the depth chart?

The problem is this isn't entirely factual. Ezekiel Ansah was drafted on potential alone & has developed into an excellent player for the Lions. In fact, a lot of the first round picks are drafted on potential. That's the name of the game when it comes to first round picks. And if he's a first round pick for the Ravens he will start. We'll sit Will Davis or Wright or Lewis or Hill before we sit Ramsey. You can bank on that. I don't think we will need to do it, though, due to how often we're in the nickel. 

 

Ramsey will play and play a lot.

[JoeyFlex5]

"looking at what he did and not what he can do"

THIS is how busts get drafted. In the top 10 you draft players who PLAYED great, not players that might be able to play great.

Does anyone even know where he'd be on the depth chart?

drafting undersized 4-3 OLBs to play 3-4 ILB with a 6th overall pick is a good way to draft a bust as well but youre campaigning for it purely because its a need. 

 

Why do we need a presser then? Why not just have a good cornerback or just look in FA? VH3 is a playmaker too.

we have a hole at cb and and even bigger current, and MUCH bigger future hole at S, ramsey is gonna pan out as a 3 down DB, he doesnt need to take every single snap at cb or take every single snap 20 yards downfield as a FS for him to pan out. 

 

and look in FA? with what cap space?

Edited January 21, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[Cillmatic]

No, not really. Did he play close to the LOS? Yes, he did. That doesn't mean he can't play as a deep FS. How a player is used in college does not equal what he can do in the NFL.

Also, let's not act like Ramsey wasn't one of the top college players in the nation. He has played great, and in many different roles as well.

Why take a risk of trying to convert a guy to FS If you can draft other, SAFER elite players or just trade to accumulate picks? Especially with our last top 10 pick in a long time? Might as well draft VH3 to be our elite free safety, just because he hasn't done it doesn't mean he can't. You can apply this to ANYONE. Edited January 21, 2016 by Cillmatic

[rmw10]

Why take a risk of trying to convert a guy to FS If you can draft other, SAFER elite players or just trade to accumulate picks?

 

Because I don't think it's a conversion for him, at all.  He has some things to learn of course, but he has shown numerous times on his tape that he has the range and instincts to play the deep part of the field.  Again, just because he wasn't used that way a ton doesn't mean he's not that type of guy.

 

I still think you're overlooking that he's not locked in as a FS either.  He has the ability to play a lot of different roles in the secondary, many of which we could really use.

[JoeyFlex5]

 

 

I still think you're overlooking that he's not locked in as a FS either.  He has the ability to play a lot of different roles in the secondary, many of which we could really use.

thats the thread.