Jalen Ramsey - most polarizing prospect among ravens fans.

[JoeyFlex5]

I'd compare Ramsey to Tyrann Mathieu in terms of what he does, he's larger but I think he needs to be put in a safety/nickel corner role to max out his potential. 

yeah it seems like the lazy/easy comparison at times, but its a pretty strong comparison. they have nearly identical playstyles, but i do think in that role that mathieu is used in(just a wild attack dog) ramsey has a higher ceiling, however i dont think he will be able to execute a more traditional role as effectively as mathieu can.

[Club Sec. 217 Seat 2]

_{http://www.nfl.com/new/story/0ap3000000613154/article/fsus-jalen-ramsey-displays-unique-talents-at-defensive-back}

 

_{This is a pretty good breakdown on Ramsey by Bucky Brooks.  Idk how I feel about Brooks sometimes I enjoy his stuff sometimes and can get on board with it and other reads I am not so sure.  However, he gives a pretty great break on Ramsey here.  To me at #6 I want a game changing play maker.  Pass rusher, LB, Corner, safety whatever it is...I want a no doubt play maker.  Ramsey has been a favorite of mine.  I think we are getting too caught up in well is he a CB or S, I am guilty of it myself because part of me just wants that lock down true corner. Ramsey is a defensive weapon, who can do all types of things, and at a high level.  He is AT BEST when he is head up on a receiver man on man in bump and run coverage.  THIS IS WHAT WE NEED.  His athleticism is off the charts and has the top end speed to keep up with faster receivers down field which Jimmy cannot do.  He is long and can land strong Jams which is incredibly important, but he can also stay up with coverage without making contact, which is maybe more impressive.  And he does this bc he is such a fluid athlete.  He has a bit of Ed Reed in him in that if he thinks he can make a play on the ball that's exactly what he goes for.  To me that is more of a strength than weakness and something this Defense needs.  We are talking about a defensive back that is ultra physical and has elite football IQ, no matter where he is at on the field.  Compared to VHIII.  VHIII has played the majority of the time in ZONE coverage.  Personally, I want the baddest corner who is going to sit in your face and jam you and run with you all day.  The fact that Ramsey can do that, as well as many other things makes him one of my favorites.  Brooks gave him a comparison of Charles Woodson, which I can see where he is going with him.  Still very early, admittedly not watched a ton of film on him, but have seen him  play in a lot of games...very intriguing for me. Hope the link works, its a good simple read}

[JoeyFlex5]

_{http://www.nfl.com/new/story/0ap3000000613154/article/fsus-jalen-ramsey-displays-unique-talents-at-defensive-back}

 

_{This is a pretty good breakdown on Ramsey by Bucky Brooks.  Idk how I feel about Brooks sometimes I enjoy his stuff sometimes and can get on board with it and other reads I am not so sure.  However, he gives a pretty great break on Ramsey here.  To me at #6 I want a game changing play maker.  Pass rusher, LB, Corner, safety whatever it is...I want a no doubt play maker.  Ramsey has been a favorite of mine.  I think we are getting too caught up in well is he a CB or S, I am guilty of it myself because part of me just wants that lock down true corner. Ramsey is a defensive weapon, who can do all types of things, and at a high level.  He is AT BEST when he is head up on a receiver man on man in bump and run coverage.  THIS IS WHAT WE NEED.  His athleticism is off the charts and has the top end speed to keep up with faster receivers down field which Jimmy cannot do.  He is long and can land strong Jams which is incredibly important, but he can also stay up with coverage without making contact, which is maybe more impressive.  And he does this bc he is such a fluid athlete.  He has a bit of Ed Reed in him in that if he thinks he can make a play on the ball that's exactly what he goes for.  To me that is more of a strength than weakness and something this Defense needs.  We are talking about a defensive back that is ultra physical and has elite football IQ, no matter where he is at on the field.  Compared to VHIII.  VHIII has played the majority of the time in ZONE coverage.  Personally, I want the baddest corner who is going to sit in your face and jam you and run with you all day.  The fact that Ramsey can do that, as well as many other things makes him one of my favorites.  Brooks gave him a comparison of Charles Woodson, which I can see where he is going with him.  Still very early, admittedly not watched a ton of film on him, but have seen him  play in a lot of games...very intriguing for me. Hope the link works, its a good simple read}

but you cant compare him to ed reed or charles woodson, because he has averaged 1 int per season over his entire career. he is not a ballhawk, he is not a real safety, he is not a cb, so what is he? were going to spend a 6th overall pick on a guy who our coordinator has to spend another 10 hours a week gameplanning for because he can only do a few specific things? 

 

if ramsey was proven to be reliable in coverage as a safety, or reliable in man coverage(not pressing at the line, actual man coverage past 5 yards against quality wr's) then he would be a surefire top 5 pick, but he has not shown anything, in 3 years, other than blitzing, run support, pressing, and athleticism. if i were a gm, i just would absolutely not be able to spend our first high pick in 8 years, on anything less than a proven commodity, ramsey is very far from that, as far as we know he may never be more than a supremely athletic extra linebacker, which is fine in many cases, but is that really what we want?

[Cillmatic]

_{http://www.nfl.com/new/story/0ap3000000613154/article/fsus-jalen-ramsey-displays-unique-talents-at-defensive-back}

_{This is a pretty good breakdown on Ramsey by Bucky Brooks. Idk how I feel about Brooks sometimes I enjoy his stuff sometimes and can get on board with it and other reads I am not so sure. However, he gives a pretty great break on Ramsey here. To me at #6 I want a game changing play maker. Pass rusher, LB, Corner, safety whatever it is...I want a no doubt play maker. Ramsey has been a favorite of mine. I think we are getting too caught up in well is he a CB or S, I am guilty of it myself because part of me just wants that lock down true corner. Ramsey is a defensive weapon, who can do all types of things, and at a high level. He is AT BEST when he is head up on a receiver man on man in bump and run coverage. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED. His athleticism is off the charts and has the top end speed to keep up with faster receivers down field which Jimmy cannot do. He is long and can land strong Jams which is incredibly important, but he can also stay up with coverage without making contact, which is maybe more impressive. And he does this bc he is such a fluid athlete. He has a bit of Ed Reed in him in that if he thinks he can make a play on the ball that's exactly what he goes for. To me that is more of a strength than weakness and something this Defense needs. We are talking about a defensive back that is ultra physical and has elite football IQ, no matter where he is at on the field. Compared to VHIII. VHIII has played the majority of the time in ZONE coverage. Personally, I want the baddest corner who is going to sit in your face and jam you and run with you all day. The fact that Ramsey can do that, as well as many other things makes him one of my favorites. Brooks gave him a comparison of Charles Woodson, which I can see where he is going with him. Still very early, admittedly not watched a ton of film on him, but have seen him play in a lot of games...very intriguing for me. Hope the link works, its a good simple read}

This is a GROSS exaggeration of Ramsey's skill.

[Club Sec. 217 Seat 2]

but you cant compare him to ed reed or charles woodson, because he has averaged 1 int per season over his entire career. he is not a ballhawk, he is not a real safety, he is not a cb, so what is he? were going to spend a 6th overall pick on a guy who our coordinator has to spend another 10 hours a week gameplanning for because he can only do a few specific things? 

 

if ramsey was proven to be reliable in coverage as a safety, or reliable in man coverage(not pressing at the line, actual man coverage past 5 yards against quality wr's) then he would be a surefire top 5 pick, but he has not shown anything, in 3 years, other than blitzing, run support, pressing, and athleticism. if i were a gm, i just would absolutely not be able to spend our first high pick in 8 years, on anything less than a proven commodity, ramsey is very far from that, as far as we know he may never be more than a supremely athletic extra linebacker, which is fine in many cases, but is that really what we want?

Personally I think you are looking at this all wrong.  Of course he doesn't have the stats to compare like Ed and Woodson lol they have played ball for a decade plus, lets put the stats to the side because they can be extremely deceiving.  He has ABILITY and MENTALITY to make a play to change the game, whether it is a pick, whether it is a forced fumble, whether it is a sack fumble, he wants to make the big play and can identify with his IQ when to take the risk.  He has instincts that cannot be taught.  He can do much more than just press and release, he can press and he can stay with his guy where ever he goes...is that not MAN COVERAGE?  It doesn't need to take all of this thought about what is he going to be.  You draft him, you play him at corner.  Then you can start to tinker with all of the sorts of the things he can do for you.  You said he can ONLY DO SPECIFIC THINGS...this loses me bc he can do everything that you could possibly ask for a defensive back.  I have seen him to referred to by multiple personal people who say he is a NATURAL COVER CORNER.  If you pick him to play corner than that's where you put him, if its safety then he goes there.  Our FO is going to have a plan for the guy they pick its not like its welp lets just see what happens.  AGAIN its still very early and I am in the process of doing more on guys like Alexander Hargraves, King etc... But this guy can be a game changer...you cant look at his INT stats and so nope no hes not he only averages 1 pick blah blah blah that's foolish

[nishadrahman13]

Take a look at Alexander, I've heard nothing but good things about him.

Alexander is like the reverse Ramsey. Ramsey has become pretty universally underrated and Alexander is now the next Revis. Let me pump the brakes. When you look at the tape, Alexander is sticky. BUT he benefits enormously from the Clemson pass rush. Most of the throws in his direction are off target, so passes aren't completed even when the receiver has a step. And with the number of poor throws that go his way, his pick numbers are disappointing to say the least. He's a good prospect, but he isn't as great as his numbers suggest.

Edited January 5, 2016 by nishadrahman13

[JoeyFlex5]

Personally I think you are looking at this all wrong.  Of course he doesn't have the stats to compare like Ed and Woodson lol they have played ball for a decade plus, lets put the stats to the side because they can be extremely deceiving.  He has ABILITY and MENTALITY to make a play to change the game, whether it is a pick, whether it is a forced fumble, whether it is a sack fumble, he wants to make the big play and can identify with his IQ when to take the risk.  He has instincts that cannot be taught.  He can do much more than just press and release, he can press and he can stay with his guy where ever he goes...is that not MAN COVERAGE?  It doesn't need to take all of this thought about what is he going to be.  You draft him, you play him at corner.  Then you can start to tinker with all of the sorts of the things he can do for you.  You said he can ONLY DO SPECIFIC THINGS...this loses me bc he can do everything that you could possibly ask for a defensive back.  I have seen him to referred to by multiple personal people who say he is a NATURAL COVER CORNER.  If you pick him to play corner than that's where you put him, if its safety then he goes there.  Our FO is going to have a plan for the guy they pick its not like its welp lets just see what happens.  AGAIN its still very early and I am in the process of doing more on guys like Alexander Hargraves, King etc... But this guy can be a game changer...you cant look at his INT stats and so nope no hes not he only averages 1 pick blah blah blah that's foolish

no, youre looking at it wrong. you said he is like ed reed and charles woodson, not that stats are everything, but those guys were brilliant in coverage, ed outsmarted every qb he faced as a SS and a FS and even as a special teamer, charles woodson did the same at every secondary position there was, and they forced turnovers, they played very smart, they took calculated risks when they KNEW they it would work, and their risks paid off almost every time, ramsey doesnt take calculated risks, he is over aggressive and does whatever he wants out there, and if his IQ was so off the charts, he would have made a few more plays in coverage over these past 3 years, but the fact is most of his plays were big hits and came as a result of him sniffing out screens or being blitzed. and just because you claim to know people who call him a natural cover corner, doesnt make him one, because the film doesnt lie, sure he can jam up ACC receivers at the line, but when a NFL receiver gets around that press and ramsey tries that hop-step backpedal nonsense he is gonna get toasted everytime a receiver breaks off for a properly ran route.

 

in short, there are no natural cover corners who dont know how to backpedal, there are no ballhawks who dont know how to get interceptions, there are no great free safeties who cant cover a deep 1/2 dependably, there are no great coverage db's who cant take their eyes out of the backfield. you clearly have not watched enough of ramsey to be able to realistically speak about his possibilities at the next level, you can oogle at his highlights all you want but until you see the big picture of his abilities then you arent going to make a strong argument. even ramseys biggest fanboys will admit that there is risk to him and there is plenty of reasons to worry about taking him so high, so when you come in and talk about him like hes a perfect prospect and the savior of the franchise, well you lose credibility. and by the way, why dont you talk with some respect eh? dont call me foolish because you havent studied up on the prospects and dont see the downsides like most of us on this board have.

Edited January 5, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[nishadrahman13]

but you cant compare him to ed reed or charles woodson, because he has averaged 1 int per season over his entire career. he is not a ballhawk, he is not a real safety, he is not a cb, so what is he? were going to spend a 6th overall pick on a guy who our coordinator has to spend another 10 hours a week gameplanning for because he can only do a few specific things?

if ramsey was proven to be reliable in coverage as a safety, or reliable in man coverage(not pressing at the line, actual man coverage past 5 yards against quality wr's) then he would be a surefire top 5 pick, but he has not shown anything, in 3 years, other than blitzing, run support, pressing, and athleticism. if i were a gm, i just would absolutely not be able to spend our first high pick in 8 years, on anything less than a proven commodity, ramsey is very far from that, as far as we know he may never be more than a supremely athletic extra linebacker, which is fine in many cases, but is that really what we want?

This. Ramsey has talent, and he could be the best player from this draft in three years. But he is boom or bust. This is our highest pick in a long time; we need a guaranteed winner.

[JoeyFlex5]

This. Ramsey has talent, and he could be the best player from this draft in three years. But he is boom or bust. This is our highest pick in a long time; we need a guaranteed winner.

yeah man, i would never deny the kids potential, however he has a lot of on-field baggage, lets say tunsil, bosa, stanley, buckner, treadwell, alexander and vh3 are all off the board, then i would hand in ramseys name so quick the clock wouldnt even start, but all of those guys, while maybe not offering anywhere near the upside, are still wayyyyy safer picks than ramsey. 

 

personally, i hate the thought of drafting a db top 10 at all, it can be very hard to guage how they perform in the nfl because there are so many different factors at play for them, its such a volatile position and even the most squeaky clean db prospect can be a massive bust because of some things you couldnt guage because they faced weak competition or because they were in a specific system or whatever.

[Robbyrobbass]

before the 2015 ravens season withered away into rebuild mode, mostly every one of us would have been saying "man i wish we would have a chance to get that jalen ramsey". Now that we have a chance to get a player like this, we look at him very carefully, and doubt begins to creep in, and i personally think the doubt is there for good reason.

I was touting Ramsey very highly for a while, i wouldve taken him over just about anyone in the draft at one point, but a closer look at his game cleared up a few things for me. so i wanted to make a pros and cons list for this polarizing prospect, and a thread for us to discuss him as he is surely going to be a big bright blip on the teams radar, and this can be a good outlet to prevent jalen ramsey discussions from continuing to highjack every thread in the draft forum as it seems to be doing right now

so away we go...

PROS:

- incredible athlete, would bring much needed explosiveness that this defense severely lacks

- unquestionably tough, a real type A personality on the field

- from the LOS to about 15 yards downfield, he owns the entire field, carry/catch the ball if you dare

- brings swagger and intensity

- playmaker

- versatile

- will probably be the best blitzing db in the league from day 1

- has DPOY potential in the right system(do we have the right system?)

- fierce competitor

CONS:

- range in question as he has almost NO proof of playing as a true safety

- very undisciplined, too susceptible against savvy route runners

- goes rogue and abandons assignments

- temper, possible sideline distraction, possible flag magnet

- takes bad angles at times

- can press as a cb, but has a hideous backpedal and could very easily get burned by faster guys who know how to beat press

- terrible hands, average at best ball skills, i dont think he can fix our inability to get turnovers

- eyes always on the backfield, would rather cheat up than stick to his assignment and cover

- wants every tackle, every PD, wants every play for himself at a risky cost

- not a zone cover guy at this moment, has the closing speed and top end speed for it, but does he have the mental capacity?

i want to like the guy, but i also dont feel comfortable taking him so high, as i think there is a lot of risk tied to him and as our team stands right now i dont think he is a fit. however, if the braintrust decides our system is fine as is, then ramsey would give us freedom to move on from will hill and would be an unquestioned upgrade there, however this doesnt fix the massive voids at cb or fs, because he is an intermediate rover and moving weapon in the mold of a tyrann mathieu. we have to ask ourselves, should we pass up an OT, CB, DE/OLB, or WR for a guy who wont really fill one of the major voids on our team? do we take him and put him in a position to succeed and hope that his natural abilities can mask the deficiencies and sort of carry a struggling defense? or do we go the safer route here if someone like stanley or treadwell or a rising edge rusher is available?

freedom to move on from will hill we just gave hill a contract hill is a solid ss and Ramsey is him coming out they are basically one in the same only hill had more Ball hawking ability. I never liked this Ramsey kid bc of the exact reasons he is a ss nothing more I pray we pass on him or hes gone by the time we draft

[Robbyrobbass]

This is a GROSS exaggeration of Ramsey's skill.

extremely biased towards this kid hes a ss at best he reminds me of a bigger brooks thats about it

[ravensnation5220]

Ramsey is going to be a corner in the nfl. Terence brooks said thats his best position and so did hus coach. He is a very interesting prospect as he has all the athletic tools and speed, he can get off blocks to help in run support and could be the best press corner to come out in a long time. Blitzes like a bull as well. He is a bit raw with his footwork but he has the hips and athletic traits that can be coached up at the next level. Hes a natural athlete so i dont see too much to worry about any ability this kid has. He can do everything well but for now it looks like hes better off playing corner and thats comming from the people who best know him

[Robbyrobbass]

Ramsey is going to be a corner in the nfl. Terence brooks said thats his best position and so did hus coach. He is a very interesting prospect as he has all the athletic tools and speed, he can get off blocks to help in run support and could be the best press corner to come out in a long time. Blitzes like a bull as well. He is a bit raw with his footwork but he has the hips and athletic traits that can be coached up at the next level. Hes a natural athlete so i dont see too much to worry about any ability this kid has. He can do everything well but for now it looks like hes better off playing corner and thats comming from the people who best know him

and your opinion is exactly why gms loose there jobs he isn't a cb in the nfl he is just a ss yeah hes big but his backpedaling is subpar but yeah I guess time will show you your wrong

[Robbyrobbass]

but you cant compare him to ed reed or charles woodson, because he has averaged 1 int per season over his entire career. he is not a ballhawk, he is not a real safety, he is not a cb, so what is he? were going to spend a 6th overall pick on a guy who our coordinator has to spend another 10 hours a week gameplanning for because he can only do a few specific things?

if ramsey was proven to be reliable in coverage as a safety, or reliable in man coverage(not pressing at the line, actual man coverage past 5 yards against quality wr's) then he would be a surefire top 5 pick, but he has not shown anything, in 3 years, other than blitzing, run support, pressing, and athleticism. if i were a gm, i just would absolutely not be able to spend our first high pick in 8 years, on anything less than a proven commodity, ramsey is very far from that, as far as we know he may never be more than a supremely athletic extra linebacker, which is fine in many cases, but is that really what we want?

thank you

[ellicottraven]

For those that want to know Jalen Ramsey's magnetism and intangible leadership skills you need to watch this. You'll absolutely love this kid!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvT94CCuTPk#t=263.453605

[ravensnation5220]

and your opinion is exactly why gms loose there jobs he isn't a cb in the nfl he is just a ss yeah hes big but his backpedaling is subpar but yeah I guess time will show you your wrong

i was just going off what his coaches and teammates said about him because i thought he was better off at safety as well. I mean he was recruited as a corner too not even an athlete so his true position will always be a question mark until he plays

[Club Sec. 217 Seat 2]

no, youre looking at it wrong. you said he is like ed reed and charles woodson, not that stats are everything, but those guys were brilliant in coverage, ed outsmarted every qb he faced as a SS and a FS and even as a special teamer, charles woodson did the same at every secondary position there was, and they forced turnovers, they played very smart, they took calculated risks when they KNEW they it would work, and their risks paid off almost every time, ramsey doesnt take calculated risks, he is over aggressive and does whatever he wants out there, and if his IQ was so off the charts, he would have made a few more plays in coverage over these past 3 years, but the fact is most of his plays were big hits and came as a result of him sniffing out screens or being blitzed. and just because you claim to know people who call him a natural cover corner, doesnt make him one, because the film doesnt lie, sure he can jam up ACC receivers at the line, but when a NFL receiver gets around that press and ramsey tries that hop-step backpedal nonsense he is gonna get toasted everytime a receiver breaks off for a properly ran route.

 

in short, there are no natural cover corners who dont know how to backpedal, there are no ballhawks who dont know how to get interceptions, there are no great free safeties who cant cover a deep 1/2 dependably, there are no great coverage db's who cant take their eyes out of the backfield. you clearly have not watched enough of ramsey to be able to realistically speak about his possibilities at the next level, you can oogle at his highlights all you want but until you see the big picture of his abilities then you arent going to make a strong argument. even ramseys biggest fanboys will admit that there is risk to him and there is plenty of reasons to worry about taking him so high, so when you come in and talk about him like hes a perfect prospect and the savior of the franchise, well you lose credibility. and by the way, why dont you talk with some respect eh? dont call me foolish because you havent studied up on the prospects and dont see the downsides like most of us on this board have.

ok..personally I think you are taking your Hall of Fame title alittle far man...I never meant any disrespect in any of my posts at all to me your tone is close minded and questionable...im here to talk football...first thing,  I said he has some Ed Reed in him in that he is looking to make a play...and you cannot question his IQ or insticts, its clear in film and his range is Ed Reed like, probably has the best range ability of the top prospects in previous drafts, he covers ground very quickly bc he is long and fast.  He is able to close quickly off the edge when he blitzes which almost results in a sack for someone else.  He doesn't allow the qbs to throw a short hot route when he blitzes because he gets his long arms in the air and its almost impossible to throw over.

 

You are taking the comparisons way too literally.  You CANNOT look at this guys stats and say well he hasn't forced any turnovers in his college career so he cant make plays and will never get turnovers in the NFL.  Im sorry that is a terrible way to look at things and it is simply false. Are you going to say the same about Alexander too??

 

No doubt back pedaling is a skill for defensive backs and yes Ramsey's is not really a true back pedal in that he opens and turns to run.  But we are talking about a press corner here.  How many times does a press corner stay in a back pedal.. he gets a strong jam at the line, reroutes his guy turns to him and runs with him step for step.  im not saying the back pedal isn't important but just bc it is not a technical traditional back pedal doesn't mean much.  he is incredibly fluid and athletic which allows him to get out of his breaks which is what you are looking for.  Look at film of Alexander and Hargreaves...they are the same way..its not that they cant do it, there just are only so many times where you are going to be in a back pedal as a corner. You are right in that Ramsey has a bit of hop step or hitch when he is goes to retreat but he is able to make it work...no one is seriously going to burn this guy unless he just blows a coverage.  He also has other tools to help make up for mistakes which the other corners like Alexander and Hargreaves do not really have.  Ramsey is going to jump through the roof at the combine, I don't see many Wrs out jumping him for a ball. 

 

I have said it all my posts...this is still early...I am not talking about this guy like he is a perfect prospect that's on you if you want to take it that way...no I am not saying his the savior..I am saying he is the type of player that I have been looking for a few years now and he plays like a Raven.  All players have risks but this guy has measurables and intangibles that are impressive and could offer great potential. and no im not googling watching highlights, im watching game film that single the players out play by play, good plays and bad plays. I am not saying this guy is Ed Reed.

[Club Sec. 217 Seat 2]

extremely biased towards this kid hes a ss at best he reminds me of a bigger brooks thats about it

This continuous comparison to Terrence Brooks is comical.  Yeah...they both went to FSU...

[Club Sec. 217 Seat 2]

This is a GROSS exaggeration of Ramsey's skill.

We can agree to disagree...a lot of what is in here is just fact and very obvious looking at his film. I am literally looking at what he does and jotting it down to paper.  I have 0 biases or any reason to favor this guy, didn't go to FSU.  This is just what myself and apparently many scouts see in him.  Also a lot of what is in here is basically about what type of athlete he is and his measurables, which I am not really sure how you exaggerate that.  Instead of just making a statement, can you elaborate on it please.

[JoeyFlex5]

You say a corner isn't often in a back pedal... But that is the thing that corners need to do more than anything, so that point makes no sense. And you will be singing a different tune when he is assigned to press a wr who can beat the press and he trips over his own feet when he tries to get up field. All I'm saying about Ramsey is, a 6th overall pick on a wild guess is irresponsible. And that's essentially what you are calling Ramsey here, you're saying that because he is aggressive and supremely athletic, that he is near certain to be a great safety and great cb, but the truth is that he has a narrow skill set and you can't just take a flier on a guy at 6th overall and expect him to suddenly become 10 times the player he was In college, in the ravens position right now we have to take a safer prospect. Its true that all prospects present a risk, but some more than others, and Ramsey and vh3 pose more risk than any other top 10 prospect and you are just dismissing all risks because of the athleticism you see. If we part ways with will hill and we decide we need another SS then I'm all for it, but his skill set is identical to hills, and what we need in the secondary is an elite coverage guy, not another utility db.

[Club Sec. 217 Seat 2]

You say a corner isn't often in a back pedal... But that is the thing that corners need to do more than anything, so that point makes no sense. And you will be singing a different tune when he is assigned to press a wr who can beat the press and he trips over his own feet when he tries to get up field. All I'm saying about Ramsey is, a 6th overall pick on a wild guess is irresponsible. And that's essentially what you are calling Ramsey here, you're saying that because he is aggressive and supremely athletic, that he is near certain to be a great safety and great cb, but the truth is that he has a narrow skill set and you can't just take a flier on a guy at 6th overall and expect him to suddenly become 10 times the player he was In college, in the ravens position right now we have to take a safer prospect. Its true that all prospects present a risk, but some more than others, and Ramsey and vh3 pose more risk than any other top 10 prospect and you are just dismissing all risks because of the athleticism you see. If we part ways with will hill and we decide we need another SS then I'm all for it, but his skill set is identical to hills, and what we need in the secondary is an elite coverage guy, not another utility db.

I said...back pedaling is most definitely a skill known for Dbs absolutely that is common knowledge..if you are a DB you spend time doing pedaling drills sure its important...but I am telling you, having played the position and coaching the position...it is hardly the most important thing and quite honestly you are hardly in a back pedal in games...unless you are a freak of nature than can run step for step with a Wr in a back pedal and I have yet to see a corner do that lol, what is important is how you break out of positions and on balls, how well you move your hips, how well you hand battle the Wr, how well you position yourself, how well you locate the ball...back pedaling is not the end all be all...that is an elementary thought "oh he can back pedal well, he is an all pro" said no one ever...honestly look at Alexander and Hargreaves film...you will hardly see any one of the three in a back pedal. Only time you are going to see it is if they are playing off coverage.

 

I would hardly call drafting this guy taking a flier on him.  and I do not compare him to Will Hill nor think he will be SS at all.

[JoeyFlex5]

I said...back pedaling is most definitely a skill known for Dbs absolutely that is common knowledge..if you are a DB you spend time doing pedaling drills sure its important...but I am telling you, having played the position and coaching the position...it is hardly the most important thing and quite honestly you are hardly in a back pedal in games...unless you are a freak of nature than can run step for step with a Wr in a back pedal and I have yet to see a corner do that lol, what is important is how you break out of positions and on balls, how well you move your hips, how well you hand battle the Wr, how well you position yourself, how well you locate the ball...back pedaling is not the end all be all...that is an elementary thought "oh he can back pedal well, he is an all pro" said no one ever...honestly look at Alexander and Hargreaves film...you will hardly see any one of the three in a back pedal. Only time you are going to see it is if they are playing off coverage.

 

I would hardly call drafting this guy taking a flier on him.  and I do not compare him to Will Hill nor think he will be SS at all.

you dont think he'll be a SS eh? then what do you think he is.. if you think he will just step into the NFL and play full time CB or FS and live up to a top 10 status then i guess im done discussing with you. he has a lot of work before he can be a 3 down FS or CB at the next level, and he also has to work on himself and his lack of discipline in general regardless of what position he plays. 

 

and by the way, im not trying to be insulting or anything, you seem to have been very defensive and im not sure why, its just a discussion and you seem to claim your opinions as concrete facts and nothing can be left up to discussion because anything opposing your opinion is wrong. 

 

EDIT: and what i mean by taking a flier, is spending our first high pick in nearly a decade, on a player who has more red flags than just about anybody else in the top 10. we are taking possibly the most crucial draft pick since 96 and 08, and saying "this guy has shown us a few good things, so lets put the future of the franchise in his hands and expect him to be capable of much more than what he has shown us over the past 3 seasons". when the right attitude should be "this guy is exactly what we are looking for and he looks to be the best bet to be a key contributor for us over the next 10 years".

Edited January 7, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[Club Sec. 217 Seat 2]

Take a look at Alexander, I've heard nothing but good things about him.

Heard a lot about this guy, also saw him mocked to us so I decided to take a look at him.  I will start by saying I am excited to see how he does in the Championship vs Ridley and Alabama on the big stage.  At 5'11 185 he looks pretty compact to me.  The main thing about this guy is that he is what looks to be a true cover corner.  In most cases he stays very tight to the Wr he is covering staying on his hip in his pocket down field.  Obviously he is good athlete I mean he is a high level D1 college football talent, but to me nothing is off the charts with him athletically.   He is quick enough to mirror a Wr he has good feet, he can press and bail well enough to stay with receivers.  One of my main concerns is that he often gets out jumped and out bodied for balls and I see him struggling against big physical athletic Wrs.  I don't think he is overly instinctive I think he is more reactive.  In some films he looks allergic to tackling like wants no part of hitting, not excited by contact.  Not a hitter, goes low and wraps up legs, he is better when he diagnosis a screen and comes up to make the tackle..its in open space where he looks scared to tackle.  If he is not turning and running with a Wr he looks lost and uncomfortable at times. 

 

He is a very good cover corner.  He has a good corner mentality and swagger and he knows his talent..he is good with his hands both with positioning and swatting balls/making it difficult for the WR...to me he is a good prospect but nothing to me is really exciting about him and I don't think he would be a candidate for us at #6 at the moment.  If you are one of those guys who believes that you need to have double digit INTs in college to be considered a good CB prospect then you will be disappointed when you look at his stats... which is why it is ridiculous to look at a players college stats and think he will never turn out in NFL

[Club Sec. 217 Seat 2]

you dont think he'll be a SS eh? then what do you think he is.. if you think he will just step into the NFL and play full time CB or FS and live up to a top 10 status then i guess im done discussing with you. he has a lot of work before he can be a 3 down FS or CB at the next level, and he also has to work on himself and his lack of discipline in general regardless of what position he plays. 

 

and by the way, im not trying to be insulting or anything, you seem to have been very defensive and im not sure why, its just a discussion and you seem to claim your opinions as concrete facts and nothing can be left up to discussion because anything opposing your opinion is wrong. 

 

EDIT: and what i mean by taking a flier, is spending our first high pick in nearly a decade, on a player who has more red flags than just about anybody else in the top 10. we are taking possibly the most crucial draft pick since 96 and 08, and saying "this guy has shown us a few good things, so lets put the future of the franchise in his hands and expect him to be capable of much more than what he has shown us over the past 3 seasons". when the right attitude should be "this guy is exactly what we are looking for and he looks to be the best bet to be a key contributor for us over the next 10 years".

lol I think you have it backwards on the insulting and defensiveness...I see that coming from you...I am very much open to discussion it is needed..these aren't just MY opinions...this is the general book on him and looking at film of him these are the things that you see there.  I have said he is not a home run but no one is, he offers some of the biggest if not the most upside of the top prospects...he is a leader on the field. In some cases he is a tiny bit raw and I am not sure I would really use the word raw because he has an incredible understanding of the game and defense..he not only knows what he should be doing but what everyone else should be doing as well.   I am not hearing anything from the doubters telling why he is such a risk and why he is over rated and why shouldn't be a good prospect for us...I have heard concerns about his CB/S tag and I have heard concerns that his "back pedaling" is suspect that is all. Like I said I want to hear other opinions..he is not my brother or family member I don't owe him anything I just think in terms of play making ability and just over all potential that he is an exciting prospect.

[Cillmatic]

We can agree to disagree...a lot of what is in here is just fact and very obvious looking at his film. I am literally looking at what he does and jotting it down to paper. I have 0 biases or any reason to favor this guy, didn't go to FSU. This is just what myself and apparently many scouts see in him. Also a lot of what is in here is basically about what type of athlete he is and his measurables, which I am not really sure how you exaggerate that. Instead of just making a statement, can you elaborate on it please.

You can't even bring up Ed's name when talking about Ramsey because he's shown ZERO range skills. You say we worrying to much on his position... Last time I checked most teams picking in the top 10 know what position they're drafting. You also barely touch on any of his negatives. Likening a college player to two hall of famers is over exaggerating. Edited January 7, 2016 by Cillmatic

[ALI624]

You can't even bring up Ed's name when talking about Ramsey because he's shown ZERO range skills. You say we worrying to much on his position... Last time I checked most teams picking in the top 10 know what position they're drafting. You also barely touch on any of his negatives. Likening a college player to two hall of famers is over exaggerating.

Just wanted to put my two cents in. Now don't take this as me advocating for Ramsey because frankly i don't know who I would like the Ravens to take. And forgive me if this has already been discussed, but couldn't you use that same knock on Bosa. I mean what exactly is he, is he a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 DE or a 3-4 OLB. Personally i think he is a 4-3 DE, but that's just me. And if I am right then where does he fit on the Ravens. I don't believe he drops to us, but if by some miracle he does and we pick him what then? On a separate note, I hope we don't take an LT with the sixth pick I understand the OL is important, but I would be disappointed if we didn't take a playmaker either on offense or defense.

[Mt. Crushmore]

I prefer Ramsey at safety to cornerback, but he is a top talent at both. His best fit is in a role where he is moving all over the defense (slot CB, S, etc) where he is able to do what he does best and make impact plays.

[Robbyrobbass]

This continuous comparison to Terrence Brooks is comical. Yeah...they both went to FSU...

alnost the same stats also look for yourself

[Cillmatic]

This continuous comparison to Terrence Brooks is comical. Yeah...they both went to FSU...

Also a similar story. Moved from one position to the other; not too good at either one. Plus both were viewed as leaders. Edited January 7, 2016 by Cillmatic

[GrimCoconut]

Lol, man, Ramsey is like an ex you once loved and thought they were everything and now something happened and you don't like them anymore because they're with someone else. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by GrimCoconut