Jalen Ramsey - most polarizing prospect among ravens fans.

[JoeyFlex5]

before the 2015 ravens season withered away into rebuild mode, mostly every one of us would have been saying "man i wish we would have a chance to get that jalen ramsey". Now that we have a chance to get a player like this, we look at him very carefully, and doubt begins to creep in, and i personally think the doubt is there for good reason.

I was touting Ramsey very highly for a while, i wouldve taken him over just about anyone in the draft at one point, but a closer look at his game cleared up a few things for me. so i wanted to make a pros and cons list for this polarizing prospect, and a thread for us to discuss him as he is surely going to be a big bright blip on the teams radar, and this can be a good outlet to prevent jalen ramsey discussions from continuing to highjack every thread in the draft forum as it seems to be doing right now

so away we go...

PROS:

- incredible athlete, would bring much needed explosiveness that this defense severely lacks

- unquestionably tough, a real type A personality on the field

- from the LOS to about 15 yards downfield, he owns the entire field, carry/catch the ball if you dare

- brings swagger and intensity

- playmaker

- versatile

- will probably be the best blitzing db in the league from day 1

- has DPOY potential in the right system(do we have the right system?)

- fierce competitor

CONS:

- range in question as he has almost NO proof of playing as a true safety

- very undisciplined, too susceptible against savvy route runners

- goes rogue and abandons assignments

- temper, possible sideline distraction, possible flag magnet

- takes bad angles at times

- can press as a cb, but has a hideous backpedal and could very easily get burned by faster guys who know how to beat press

- terrible hands, average at best ball skills, i dont think he can fix our inability to get turnovers

- eyes always on the backfield, would rather cheat up than stick to his assignment and cover

- wants every tackle, every PD, wants every play for himself at a risky cost

- not a zone cover guy at this moment, has the closing speed and top end speed for it, but does he have the mental capacity?

i want to like the guy, but i also dont feel comfortable taking him so high, as i think there is a lot of risk tied to him and as our team stands right now i dont think he is a fit. however, if the braintrust decides our system is fine as is, then ramsey would give us freedom to move on from will hill and would be an unquestioned upgrade there, however this doesnt fix the massive voids at cb or fs, because he is an intermediate rover and moving weapon in the mold of a tyrann mathieu. we have to ask ourselves, should we pass up an OT, CB, DE/OLB, or WR for a guy who wont really fill one of the major voids on our team? do we take him and put him in a position to succeed and hope that his natural abilities can mask the deficiencies and sort of carry a struggling defense? or do we go the safer route here if someone like stanley or treadwell or a rising edge rusher is available?

[January J]

before the 2015 ravens season withered away into rebuild mode, mostly every one of us would have been saying "man i wish we would have a chance to get that jalen ramsey". Now that we have a chance to get a player like this, we look at him very carefully, and doubt begins to creep in, and i personally think the doubt is there for good reason.

I was touting Ramsey very highly for a while, i wouldve taken him over just about anyone in the draft at one point, but a closer look at his game cleared up a few things for me. so i wanted to make a pros and cons list for this polarizing prospect, and a thread for us to discuss him as he is surely going to be a big bright blip on the teams radar, and this can be a good outlet to prevent jalen ramsey discussions from continuing to highjack every thread in the draft forum as it seems to be doing right now

so away we go...

PROS:

- incredible athlete, would bring much needed explosiveness that this defense severely lacks

- unquestionably tough, a real type A personality on the field

- from the LOS to about 15 yards downfield, he owns the entire field, carry/catch the ball if you dare

- brings swagger and intensity

- playmaker

- versatile

- will probably be the best blitzing db in the league from day 1

- has DPOY potential in the right system(do we have the right system?)

- fierce competitor

CONS:

- range in question as he has almost NO proof of playing as a true safety

- very undisciplined, too susceptible against savvy route runners

- goes rogue and abandons assignments

- temper, possible sideline distraction, possible flag magnet

- takes bad angles at times

- can press as a cb, but has a hideous backpedal and could very easily get burned by faster guys who know how to beat press

- terrible hands, average at best ball skills, i dont think he can fix our inability to get turnovers

- eyes always on the backfield, would rather cheat up than stick to his assignment and cover

- wants every tackle, every PD, wants every play for himself at a risky cost

- not a zone cover guy at this moment, has the closing speed and top end speed for it, but does he have the mental capacity?

i want to like the guy, but i also dont feel comfortable taking him so high, as i think there is a lot of risk tied to him and as our team stands right now i dont think he is a fit. however, if the braintrust decides our system is fine as is, then ramsey would give us freedom to move on from will hill and would be an unquestioned upgrade there, however this doesnt fix the massive voids at cb or fs, because he is an intermediate rover and moving weapon in the mold of a tyrann mathieu. we have to ask ourselves, should we pass up an OT, CB, DE/OLB, or WR for a guy who wont really fill one of the major voids on our team? do we take him and put him in a position to succeed and hope that his natural abilities can mask the deficiencies and sort of carry a struggling defense? or do we go the safer route here if someone like stanley or treadwell or a rising edge rusher is available?

good thread. On the outside looking in Ramsey just seems like the obvious pick. Our secondary has struggled the past 2 seasons and I think bc of that many analysts will have him going to us. However I just don't think he is the answer. Those cons scare me- and is pretty much more of the same of what we already have- no discipline, and no ball skills. I too was originally on the Ramsey train but when you really dissect the situation , he's not a good fit and vh3 would be a much much safer pick. That being said if this guy pans out and becomes the next big thing and he was right there for the taking we will really be putting our feet in our mouth. Happens all the time. Still- I'd rather play it safe. Stanley, vh3 or even treadwell are all much smarter picks.

[52liveforever]

I am so glad I am not a GM. I am absolutely way to indecisive. I keep thinking of people I would like and start watching them a lot and end up talking myself out of it and moving on. It's a tough decision because you I guess it comes down on how you weight the pros and the cons. Personally I'm advocating for the guy with the least amount of cons. May not prove to have the overall upside, but I really do not want us to miss on this pick.

[Gordo52]

Jags will break our hearts, watch.

[JoeyFlex5]

Jags will break our hearts, watch.

[JoeyFlex5]

I am so glad I am not a GM. I am absolutely way to indecisive. I keep thinking of people I would like and start watching them a lot and end up talking myself out of it and moving on. It's a tough decision because you I guess it comes down on how you weight the pros and the cons. Personally I'm advocating for the guy with the least amount of cons. May not prove to have the overall upside, but I really do not want us to miss on this pick.

I feel the same, I think stanley, treadwell, and buckner are the safest picks and I hope we get one of them because the bust factor is so high for pretty much everyone else

[GrimCoconut]

I really like Ramsey. He reminds me a lot of Talib. He needs work but it's not like he can't do it. His potential is through the roof but I do see a very boom/bust prospect. I think the concerns about him not playing FS in college are exaggerated. It's a true statement but that doesn't mean he can't. Not saying you're saying that btw.

[JoeyFlex5]

I really like Ramsey. He reminds me a lot of Talib. He needs work but it's not like he can't do it. His potential is through the roof but I do see a very boom/bust prospect. I think the concerns about him not playing FS in college are exaggerated. It's a true statement but that doesn't mean he can't. Not saying you're saying that btw.

I've never viewed him as a cb at the next level, I think he is far too limited there and I think he will get mopped up and down the field by savvy route runners, but I also think he is the kind of guy who can render big receivers useless, lining up at cb I think he can keep an aj green hemmed up at the line, but then get toasted by an Antonio Brown regularly. He can be incredible if he is used properly, but I think it could be very easy for a DC to misuse him with disastrous results. I personally would only want him in a short range coverage role, and having him blitz often and press cover the receivers who we know he can successfully press.

[hn68wb4]

I think is versatility is way overrated. As far as I can see he is a safety through and through, he could switch a little to CB like Levine did last year but it shouldn't be a regular thing. And, as you said, he is largely untested at FS as it is a d is a risk taker on the back end which i really don't like unless you have Reed esque instincts and just don't see Ramsey with those instincts. Not really worried a out the attitude, as long as it's a Ray Lewis swagger not Terrell Owens drama queen attitude I think we are fine on that front. Personally I think we should pass on him but I'll of course be behind him if he's our pick.

[Gordo52]

jags taking Ramsey would be a good thing I think. It keeps Ozzie from being too tempted to take the high risk prospect lol

I'm only just beginning to look at top prospects, but out of the handful I've watched so far, he really jumps out to me as special. Fills our biggest need & played in the state of Florida, which history shows is a pretty big factor for us

[JoeyFlex5]

I'm only just beginning to look at top prospects, but out of the handful I've watched so far, he really jumps out to me as special. Fills our biggest need & played in the state of Florida, which history shows is a pretty big factor for us

Also realized I've gotten to the age in my life where I'm older than a lot of prospects. So that means I can call them "kids" now, right? ..... Yeah that kid is special.

yeah im at that age too lol, when i watch the draft and see these kids 2-3 years younger than me im just like... man im a failure lmao 

 

but ramsey is a flashy player who will impress at first, but the more you watch him the more you notice that he just isnt as advertised. he doesnt fill our biggest hole because he is neither a cb nor a fs, and he appears to have a very specific niche and i worry that he will fail in any other role, now dont get me wrong, he will be a special player in that role, but he just doesnt appear to be a FS unless he has some insane IQ in coverage which he has not shown yet. 

 

he needs to be a guy who roams shallow, attacks, blitzes, and whenever we face a wr who is a threat but is weak against press coverage(torrey smith for example) then he needs to jam that guy, but i think we would be taking a HUGE risk by just telling him to roam deep and make plays and make qb's fear him, i just think he will be a liability in that area. 

[PolishRifle]

Meanwhile, Treadwell might be the most underrated prospect among Ravens fans. Everyone seems to think we can easily land him in the middle of the 1st round. I dunno.

Edited January 4, 2016 by PolishRifle

[JoeyFlex5]

I think is versatility is way overrated. As far as I can see he is a safety through and through, he could switch a little to CB like Levine did last year but it shouldn't be a regular thing. And, as you said, he is largely untested at FS as it is a d is a risk taker on the back end which i really don't like unless you have Reed esque instincts and just don't see Ramsey with those instincts. Not really worried a out the attitude, as long as it's a Ray Lewis swagger not Terrell Owens drama queen attitude I think we are fine on that front. Personally I think we should pass on him but I'll of course be behind him if he's our pick.

his versatility isnt overrated to me, because he does a lot of very valuable things, he can play the enforcer role as a primary job but then he can bring some great utility in key situations, like jamming a big jumpball wr for the whole game and completely eliminating him(since surprisingly the big physical wr's tend to struggle with press coverage the most), he can eliminate the seam when we play against good TE's, he can bring a mean zone blitz because his explosiveness is through the roof and he has snap anticipation and he actually has legit pass rush moves, so he brings a lot of different things to the table, however i dont think any of those things is what we are looking for to fill our holes, and thats where the problem is, are we really getting better if we spend a high pick on a player who can only do what we already do? 

[JoeyFlex5]

Meanwhile, Treadwell might be the most underrated prospect among Ravens fans. Everyone seems to think we can easily land him in the middle of the 1st round. I dunno.

after his bowl game he picked up some hype, seeing him show up big time in big moments is important to me, thats why i value bowl game performances so much. after what he did this weekend ill take him at 6 with no problem

[allblackraven]

I do like Ramsey a lot but I just don't think he's the type of player we need. It might not appear so on surface but we have a backlog of similar guys already - Elam, Brooks, Hill, Lewis and need a true ballhawk and rangy deep cover safety. He might be better than anybody we have on the roster but without that deep help, he'd find himself exposed pretty quickly, too.

[Cillmatic]

I've turned on the top DB. Ramsey and Hargreaves just don't look the part.

[January J]

Yep, I've officially hopped off the Ramsey train.

[ALPHA]

He's never looked like a sure thing to me, but then again who does?

[Cillmatic]

The forum on Ramsey:

[GrimCoconut]

The forum on Ramsey:

Yeah. It's hard for me still. Right now I have him narrowly as my top DB if the draft were today but thankfully it's not. I think my opinion on him will change after the combine and potentially Senior and East West game.

[Edug27]

I'm not a big college football guy. Who is a safety that Ramsey compares to coming out? Earl Thomas?

[GrimCoconut]

I'm not a big college football guy. Who is a safety that Ramsey compares to coming out? Earl Thomas?

Byron Jones, maybe Eric Berry. I don't see Earl Thomas at all.

[JoeyFlex5]

I'm not a big college football guy. Who is a safety that Ramsey compares to coming out? Earl Thomas?

I've always said brian Dawkins.

[RaineV1]

If the Ravens had a better track record of developing DBs, I'd want him. But since Austin left we haven't done a particularly good job with that.

[Cillmatic]

I'm not a big college football guy. Who is a safety that Ramsey compares to coming out? Earl Thomas?

Terrance Brooks. Not too good at any position. Displays some talent at CB, unknown as a FS. Edited January 4, 2016 by Cillmatic

[ravensnation5220]

I'm not a big college football guy. Who is a safety that Ramsey compares to coming out? Earl Thomas?

i think vonn bell remimds me more of earl thomas

[Willbacker]

I've turned on the top DB. Ramsey and Hargreaves just don't look the part.

Neither looked impressive at all in their bowl games or conference championship games. I personally like William Jackson out of Houston. I wouldn't go DB at the 6th spot.

[Cillmatic]

Neither looked impressive at all in their bowl games or conference championship games. I personally like William Jackson out of Houston. I wouldn't go DB at the 6th spot.

Take a look at Alexander, I've heard nothing but good things about him.

[Willbacker]

Take a look at Alexander, I've heard nothing but good things about him.

I wouldn't be surprised he rises up draft boards where we might have to jump on him at the 6th spot but I most defintly wouldn't go with the other 2. I'll pass and trade back.

[jboy19]

I'd compare Ramsey to Tyrann Mathieu in terms of what he does, he's larger but I think he needs to be put in a safety/nickel corner role to max out his potential.