Next up: Pro-bowl, Free Agency, Draft and the Salary Cap

[Wildabeast88]

If you're okay with going through a list of Anthony Wright, Kyle Boller, and Jeff Blake types of QBs again, then sure, Flacco isn't worth a big deal.  The days of getting a QB for around $15M are over.  If you have a guy, you have to pay him.  It's as simple as that nowadays.  It's not like you can play hardball and say "oh, we'll just get someone else."  The QB holds all of the leverage.

15 mil gets you Kap Dalton Tannehill I will take Joe thanks

[Wildabeast88]

Stop the fear mongering. Flacco isn't special enough to have him match the price of guys like Rodgers or Russell. Flacco will never top guys like that.

There are so much young QBs that are more pro ready then ever before and you can match Flaccos progression among any mediocre QBs in the draft right now if you give him the chance like we have, EASILY.

You can take your 1TD/1INT guy and fear we are going to be the next browns w/o joe . I'm smart enough to know he doesn't have enough talent to offset what we are paying him to be a elite SB contenders.

seriously Russell Wilson all he is a more mobile weaker armed Flacco he is carried by that D period

[Wildabeast88]

Then apparently there's a gigantic amount of GMs who don't know as much as fans do then, because there's a large quantity of teams who pay in that same market. It's certainly not limited to 1-2 teams.

In 2016, there is scheduled to be 9 QBs averaging over $20M AAV, and 9 more averaging over $15M a season. That's called a majority. The only good QBs not in that list are Brady and rookie deals.

The market tells you all you need to know. Unless you get a really good QB on a rookie deal, which is becoming increasingly harder to find every year, you've got to spend north of $15M on a QB to be relevant in this league. And even when you get that rookie, that big contract is inevitable anyway.

Once you get above that price, I don't see much difference between $17M or $20M.

Brady is getting 15 next year so add him 19 out of 32 then here are QBs not making 15 Tyrod career backup Fitzpatrick whoever the Browns throw out there Luck last year of rookie deal will be over 15 Bradford13mil Bortles rookie deal Carr rookie deal Winston rookie deal Foles Cousins probably will get around 15 Hoyer career back up Mariota rookie deal Bridgewater rookie deal

[Wildabeast88]

You're literally one of the only people I've ever heard say that young guys are more pro ready these days.

It's the single biggest problem between college and NFL today...serious lack of quality QB play coming from college to the Pros.

agree spread/zone read is not prostyle

[Wisdom]

Stop the fear mongering. Flacco isn't special enough to have him match the price of guys like Rodgers or Russell. Flacco will never top guys like that.

There are so much young QBs that are more pro ready then ever before and you can match Flaccos progression among any mediocre QBs in the draft right now if you give him the chance like we have, EASILY.

You can take your 1TD/1INT guy and fear we are going to be the next browns w/o joe . I'm smart enough to know he doesn't have enough talent to offset what we are paying him to be a elite SB contenders.

Finally, a rational post!  I couldn't agree with you more.

[rmcjacket23]

Finally, a rational post!  I couldn't agree with you more.

Lol, not quite.

I always get a chuckle when fans whine about Joe being overpaid at $20M, yet every realistic person knows the floor for said player league wide is $17-18M a year.

So we make this big outrage over a 1-2% yearly difference in salary cap space. It's almost like fans think we are one $2M a year player away from being a SB contender or something.

It's really getting quite laughable with the lack of overall perspective. Go ahead, pay him $2M a year less so he's in line with the others just like him...and we will win zero more games.

Brilliant.

[usmccharles]

I love these guys who complain about Joe, so what do we do?

Cut him? Eat that money? Watch him sign some where within an hour? Oh, then who is our qb? Let me guess, Ryan mallet, the one game mediocre arrogant wonder.

We never had qb play, we get Joe and we win at least a playoff game 6/8 years, not to mention a superbowl. If you want cool regular season stats, go watch Matt Ryan.

Someone needs to learn the basics of supply and demand...

[GrimCoconut]

People are still complaining about Joe Flacco? Geez. Give it a break. That's old, man. Dean Pees is the new rage. 

 

#DeanFever

[Wildabeast88]

Lol, not quite.

I always get a chuckle when fans whine about Joe being overpaid at $20M, yet every realistic person knows the floor for said player league wide is $17-18M a year.

So we make this big outrage over a 1-2% yearly difference in salary cap space. It's almost like fans think we are one $2M a year player away from being a SB contender or something.

It's really getting quite laughable with the lack of overall perspective. Go ahead, pay him $2M a year less so he's in line with the others just like him...and we will win zero more games.

Brilliant.

these guys must not have been fans for long I still have nightmares of the ghosts of QBs past

[Wildabeast88]

I love these guys who complain about Joe, so what do we do?

Cut him? Eat that money? Watch him sign some where within an hour? Oh, then who is our qb? Let me guess, Ryan mallet, the one game mediocre arrogant wonder.

We never had qb play, we get Joe and we win at least a playoff game 6/8 years, not to mention a superbowl. If you want cool regular season stats, go watch Matt Ryan.

Someone needs to learn the basics of supply and demand...

LMAO yeah or we could have Andy Dalton and choke ever year would that be better or Ryan with a great offense who has won one playoff game ever I had a guy on another thread say cut Joe after he complained about dead money some of these guys are clueless. lets start 1 win Mallett ok that's logical SMH

[Wildabeast88]

People are still complaining about Joe Flacco? Geez. Give it a break. That's old, man. Dean Pees is the new rage. 

 

#DeanFever

Dean Fever side effects are playing 10 yards off WRs and constantly throwing up on your shoes in the 4th qtr other side effects are being allergic to AJ Green in 4th qtrs. Frazier for DC

[usmccharles]

Dean Fever side effects are playing 10 yards off WRs and constantly throwing up on your shoes in the 4th qtr other side effects are being allergic to AJ Green in 4th qtrs. Frazier for DC

I think he was agreeing with you.. But with Class. Hard to do these days apparently

[nyc9192]

Stop the fear mongering. Flacco isn't special enough to have him match the price of guys like Rodgers or Russell. Flacco will never top guys like that.

There are so much young QBs that are more pro ready then ever before and you can match Flaccos progression among any mediocre QBs in the draft right now if you give him the chance like we have, EASILY.

You can take your 1TD/1INT guy and fear we are going to be the next browns w/o joe . I'm smart enough to know he doesn't have enough talent to offset what we are paying him to be a elite SB contenders.

Agree with you about Rodgers but I'll take Flacco over Wilson all day.Wilson is not all that great and is surronded by a great team.Not the greatest offense but still.Joe was one of the, if not the main reason we won the Superbowl and won Mvp,where as Wilson wasn't and had a defense that carried him.

[usmccharles]

Agree with you about Rodgers but I'll take Flacco over Wilson all day.Wilson is not all that great and is surronded by a great team.Not the greatest offense but still.Joe was one of the, if not the main reason we won the Superbowl and won Mvp,where as Wilson wasn't and had a defense that carried him.

proven by the Broncos box score

[FlackAttack]

Agree with you about Rodgers but I'll take Flacco over Wilson all day.Wilson is not all that great and is surronded by a great team.Not the greatest offense but still.Joe was one of the, if not the main reason we won the Superbowl and won Mvp,where as Wilson wasn't and had a defense that carried him.

 

saying russell wilson is not all that great is flat out ignorance. dude balls hard.

[nyc9192]

saying russell wilson is not all that great is flat out ignorance. dude balls hard.

I'm not sayin hes bad or anything but hes not all of that.Still good though.He does ball hard to and is possibly the most elusive qb since tarkenton.He's good but when saying he's better than flacco is another story.I think we underappreciate joe because alot of these other qbs are flashier but in truth their really overrated.Time after time I can remember the media and this forum putting these other qbs above joe and time and time again they all fall flat on their face.I.E.-Ryan,Stafford,Kaep,Griffin,Sanchez, Schaub and the list goes on and we've seen them all fall.Joes not elite but he's above game manager and being a decent qb.I feel like him,Ben and Eli are in a grey area in the top 10 over their career.Not top 3 but definitely top 10 and possesing the ability to be top 5 though they may not be in it.They also possess the ability to get hot in the postseason as we've seen.Not knocking what you said but what we got is better than most in this league at qb.

Edited January 18, 2016 by nyc9192

[usmccharles]

I'm not sayin hes bad or anything but hes not all of that.Still good though.He does ball hard to and is possibly the most elusive qb since tarkenton.He's good but when saying he's better than flacco is another story.I think we underappreciate joe because alot of these other qbs are flashier but in truth their really overrated.Time after time I can remember the media and this forum putting these other qbs above joe and time and time again they all fall flat on their face.I.E.-Ryan,Stafford,Kaep,Griffin,Sanchez, Schaub and the list goes on and we've seen them all fall.Joes not elite but he's above game manager and being a decent qb.I feel like him,Ben and Eli are in a grey area in the top 10 over their career.Not top 3 but definitely top 10 and possesing the ability to be top 5 though they may not be in it.They also possess the ability to get hot in the postseason as we've seen.Not knocking what you said but what we got is better than most in this league at qb.

There is a select few posters on here that actually think Joe shouldnt be on our roster, while that being cut or trade, which is just flat out dumb.  Some on this forum arent huge fans of Joe but realize the supply and demand of a franchise qb, while we dont have Rodgers, we have someone far capable of winning in the post season. 

 

If your waiting for the media to be all about Joe, dont hold your breath.  There is nothing special about a qb who throws for 3800 yards, 25 TDs and 13 Ints on the regular (ball park figures).  But come January, theres only one other guy you want instead of Joe, the media has noticed that, hence a nickname, January Joe. 

[nyc9192]

There is a select few posters on here that actually think Joe shouldnt be on our roster, while that being cut or trade, which is just flat out dumb.  Some on this forum arent huge fans of Joe but realize the supply and demand of a franchise qb, while we dont have Rodgers, we have someone far capable of winning in the post season. 

 

If your waiting for the media to be all about Joe, dont hold your breath.  There is nothing special about a qb who throws for 3800 yards, 25 TDs and 13 Ints on the regular (ball park figures).  But come January, theres only one other guy you want instead of Joe, the media has noticed that, hence a nickname, January Joe. 

Agreed.In regards to the media,i dont expect them to be all about him,but its just frustrating to see the passes other qbs that do nothing get but Joe doesn't.I would love to see Joe with the same OC and some legit weapons and see what he can really do.Hopefully while he's rehabbing with his injury,he can fine tune his mechanics a bit and tweek his overall game,both mental and physical.

[harfordravenfan]

I'm a big Flacco fan but he did open up the door for criticism by throwing some awful throws/picks this year. It would be nice to see Joe have some consistency at OC and a few extra weapons added.

[B-more Ravor]

Joe's not worth a cap hit of 25 mil a year. With the scenario the writer laid yes we might save 8 mil on the cap this year but we'd be right back in the same mess and wouldn't be able to dig out for another 2 yrs. I really like Flacco but looking at this it might be better to take the hit and hope for a killer draft and try to stay as injury free as possible lol.

 

No, not the same mess.  Lowers his two killer Cap hits in 2016 and 2017 and then nothing approaching $28.55M or $31.15M in future.  Higher later Cap numbers can easily be accommodated in later year because Cap will be much, much higher (ie a $27M Cap hit in 2021 won't seem as high as it does now, if he's even still on team).

 

No, in ideal world, no one would want those kinds of hits either ($25-27M), but given the parameters of where they are with Cap now and how much is still owed Flacco, it's going to be hard to make it happen any other way (although, that's probably the upper limits of a deal). 

 

That is, unless they decide to do nothing with the contract in 2016 and revisit it in 2017 when some of the leverage swings back in the team's favor and Flacco no longer has ( pretty much) all of the leverage.

Edited January 18, 2016 by B-more Ravor

[Virginia 55]

Agree with you about Rodgers but I'll take Flacco over Wilson all day.Wilson is not all that great and is surronded by a great team.Not the greatest offense but still.Joe was one of the, if not the main reason we won the Superbowl and won Mvp,where as Wilson wasn't and had a defense that carried him.

Wow What????? Wilson is way better than Flacco.  I'm even a little upset you put them in the same sentence.  In free agency we need to look at a Quarterback as well.

 

I think he might benefit from having someone that could potentially take his job behind him. I don't mean Ryan Mallett either.

 

  You talk about Wilson's defense carrying him, he has been in back to back Super-bowls and a divisional round playoff game this year.  What has Flacco done since the Super Bowl year? Take all of his years here in Baltimore and Flacco has been pedestrian with excuses.

 

We need to draft a QB. Not early, but we definitely need to carry three this year.   

Edited January 18, 2016 by Virginia 55

[codizzle]

Lol you guys still respond to that crap?

You're better than that nonsense

[rmcjacket23]

Wow What????? Wilson is way better than Flacco.  I'm even a little upset you put them in the same sentence.  In free agency we need to look at a Quarterback as well.

 

I think he might benefit from having someone that could potentially take his job behind him. I don't mean Ryan Mallett either.

 

  You talk about Wilson's defense carrying him, he has been in back to back Super-bowls and a divisional round playoff game this year.  What has Flacco done since the Super Bowl year? Take all of his years here in Baltimore and Flacco has been pedestrian with excuses.

 

In free agency we need to draft a QB. Not early, but we definitely need to carry three this year.   

Yeah, there's the ticket. Spend a mid or late round pick on a QB in a terrible draft class for QBs and in an era where college QBs play more like college RBs.

 

Or, we could use one of those picks on a player who brings value to the team.

 

I like my idea better, and I suspect the FO will as well. Just a hunch.

[usmccharles]

Wow What????? Wilson is way better than Flacco. I'm even a little upset you put them in the same sentence. In free agency we need to look at a Quarterback as well.

I think he might benefit from having someone that could potentially take his job behind him. I don't mean Ryan Mallett either.

You talk about Wilson's defense carrying him, he has been in back to back Super-bowls and a divisional round playoff game this year. What has Flacco done since the Super Bowl year? Take all of his years here in Baltimore and Flacco has been pedestrian with excuses.

In free agency we need to draft a QB. Not early, but we definitely need to carry three this year.

draft a qb in free agency...?

Says all I need to know right there...

[Virginia 55]

Yeah, there's the ticket. Spend a mid or late round pick on a QB in a terrible draft class for QBs and in an era where college QBs play more like college RBs.

 

Or, we could use one of those picks on a player who brings value to the team.

 

I like my idea better, and I suspect the FO will as well. Just a hunch.

Qb's like running backs???  That's where the league is going.  If we live in the pass we better get comfortable in the bottom half of the league. Yes......  a Qb pick in late rounds would not hurt.  

[Willbacker]

No, not the same mess.  Lowers his two killer Cap hits in 2016 and 2017 and then nothing approaching $28.55M or $31.15M in future.  Higher later Cap numbers can easily be accommodated in later year because Cap will be much, much higher (ie a $27M Cap hit in 2021 won't seem as high as it does now, if he's even still on team).

 

No, in ideal world, no one would want those kinds of hits either ($25-27M), but given the parameters of where they are with Cap now and how much is still owed Flacco, it's going to be hard to make it happen any other way (although, that's probably the upper limits of a deal). 

 

That is, unless they decide to do nothing with the contract in 2016 and revisit it in 2017 when some of the leverage swings back in the team's favor and Flacco no longer has ( pretty much) all of the leverage.

If anybody remembers the players have a chance to opt out 2 yrs before the CBA expires(just like owners had it in the previus CBA) and believe me they will go on strike. When the new CBA came in earlier the cap actually dropped by about 10 mil and took like 3yrs to actually crawl above what it was before the new agreement and chances are this could happen again. We've just been extremely lucky that the cap has been jumping by leaps and bounds but there's been times before that the cap flatlines(maybe raises a couple mil) or has dipped. Its kinda like wall st..

 

I want Joe to stay our QB until he retires but not as the 2nd highes paid and again I'm talking bout cap hit not base salary therefore it might be best for the Ravens to simply ride this year out until they can gain some leverage.

[rmcjacket23]

Qb's like running backs???  That's where the league is going.  If we live in the pass we better get comfortable in the bottom half of the league. Yes......  a Qb pick in late rounds would not hurt.

Yeah but now you're just perpetuating a myth. I mean I get it...guys like Wilson and Newton are sexy to watch and all, but successful mobile QBs are but a small minority in this league and have been for years.

Getting 2 out of like 50 QBs who can effectively run and throw isn't close to being a shift in a position.

[Inqui]

Wow What????? Wilson is way better than Flacco.  I'm even a little upset you put them in the same sentence.  In free agency we need to look at a Quarterback as well.   

Are you upset that you put them both in the same sentence yourself?

[Wildabeast88]

Yeah but now you're just perpetuating a myth. I mean I get it...guys like Wilson and Newton are sexy to watch and all, but successful mobile QBs are but a small minority in this league and have been for years.

Getting 2 out of like 50 QBs who can effectively run and throw isn't close to being a shift in a position.

The problem is all the guys play spread gimmicky read option crap in college very few pro-style offenses which means here learning curve is greater nd they take longer to develop

[DR32]

We should ride out this year with Joe.  Joe has been very average with the exception of last years playoffs and the Super Bowl.  Joe is a good QB but we paid him to be a top 5 QB which he is definitely not.  This season when he played he wouldn't even be considered top 10.