Next up: Pro-bowl, Free Agency, Draft and the Salary Cap

[Maryland]

7 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

But at the same time, they had like  $18M in cap space prior to his release, so it's not like they were hurting for cap.

You can carry over that cap money though, or use it to extend current players. 

I agree with rmc's perspective: if Norman has no plans of re-signing, then it's better to cut him lose now, save money, and get your comp. pick a year earlier (assuming no one wanted to give up a 3rd or better in trade). 

8 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

Someone tell me where to go to apply for McShay's job! Why would we pick Stanley if Tunsil is STILL available???

"In Todd McShay's latest mock draft, three of the top prospects -- Ole Miss offensive tackle Laremy Tunsil, Oregon defensive end DeForest Buckner and UCLA linebacker Myles Jack -- are all available when the Baltimore Ravens are on the clock with the No. 6 overall pick.

So whom do the Ravens select? McShay has Baltimore going with Notre Dame offensive tackle Ronnie Stanley."

lol, I also saw this. It was a brief "What the heck?, why?" moment for me, and it gave me a small glimpse of the immense frustration I would feel if we actually passed on Tunsil for Stanley.

[BmoreBird22]

8 hours ago, ludy51 said:

Maybe but PFF is hardly perfect + Watt was playing through a groin injury most of the year if I remember correctly

They are hardly perfect, but do you watch every Houston, Rams, and Raiders game?

[BmoreBird22]

4 hours ago, Maryland said:

You can carry over that cap money though, or use it to extend current players. 

I agree with rmc's perspective: if Norman has no plans of re-signing, then it's better to cut him lose now, save money, and get your comp. pick a year earlier (assuming no one wanted to give up a 3rd or better in trade). 

I know you can carry over cap, but they have $70M going into next season with five big name free agents, one of whom won't be a free agent if they exercise the fifth year option. Now, if they carry all that cap over, they'd have probably around $95M. Do they REALLY need that much?

I don't know, if the third is that valuable to them next year(I'm not sure if they qualify or not due to free agency) as opposed to waiting a year, then so be it. It's just an odd choice.

[ludy51]

16 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

They are hardly perfect, but do you watch every Houston, Rams, and Raiders game?

They are usually on at my house yes

[BmoreBird22]

38 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

They are usually on at my house yes

You've watched all 48 of those games and all 16 Ravens games? I do not believe that for a second. Many of those games overlapped to the point that you would not be watching all those teams and focusing intently on a single player.

Point is, PFF at least gives a relative idea of how a player is performing for people like you and I who cannot sit down and watch literally every single game and focus intently on every single player. 

Donald had arguably the best pass rushing season of any defensive tackle, was dominant against the run, and posted grades that rivaled JJ Watt's best seasons, including his two 20+ sack seasons.

And just to be clear, I'm not using PFF as an end all be all, but I did not watch every Rams game, but when I did, Aaron Donald was extraordinarily disruptive and he does it from the interior, which is harder to do and gives an offense more fits.

Edited April 22, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[ludy51]

26 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You've watched all 48 of those games and all 16 Ravens games? I do not believe that for a second. Many of those games overlapped to the point that you would not be watching all those teams and focusing intently on a single player.

Point is, PFF at least gives a relative idea of how a player is performing for people like you and I who cannot sit down and watch literally every single game and focus intently on every single player. 

Donald had arguably the best pass rushing season of any defensive tackle, was dominant against the run, and posted grades that rivaled JJ Watt's best seasons, including his two 20+ sack seasons.

And just to be clear, I'm not using PFF as an end all be all, but I did not watch every Rams game, but when I did, Aaron Donald was extraordinarily disruptive and he does it from the interior, which is harder to do and gives an offense more fits.

Did you also miss the part with Watt's Groin injury? Along with the other players on that rams line, it wouldn't shock me to see him being dominant. Obviously I couldn't watch EVERY Rams game, but that is undeniable fact.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, ludy51 said:

Did you also miss the part with Watt's Groin injury? Along with the other players on that rams line, it wouldn't shock me to see him being dominant. Obviously I couldn't watch EVERY Rams game, but that is undeniable fact.

Did you miss the part about Donald's grade rivaling Watt's two 20 sack seasons? This isn't Donald playing better than Watt this year; this is Donald rivaling the best seasons that Watt had when he won two DPOY awards.

And if you wanna talk about Watt's injury, talk about Chris Long and Robert Quinn, who was placed on IR, missing significant time and only starting 12 games combined. His help that you want to talk about was largely injured. He had less help than Watt did with Wilfork and Mercilus.

[usmccharles]

Most would agree Watt is the best defensive player in the league, but there are a couple in the same conversations

[ludy51]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Did you miss the part about Donald's grade rivaling Watt's two 20 sack seasons? This isn't Donald playing better than Watt this year; this is Donald rivaling the best seasons that Watt had when he won two DPOY awards.

And if you wanna talk about Watt's injury, talk about Chris Long and Robert Quinn, who was placed on IR, missing significant time and only starting 12 games combined. His help that you want to talk about was largely injured. He had less help than Watt did with Wilfork and Mercilus.

"rivaling"? So he didn't actually beat them then? 

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, ludy51 said:

"rivaling"? So he didn't actually beat them then? 

Hard to compare, but Aaron Donald scored a perfect score on PFF's new grading scale, whereas Watt played on a scale that allowed players to break 100 points. Plus, you're talking about an argument where people are going to sit on both sides of the fence; hence why I said "rivaled". There is no definitive answer, but to blow off Donald and act as if he's not doing amazing things that are worthy of being DPOY when JJ Watt is still in the league is silly.

[ludy51]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Hard to compare, but Aaron Donald scored a perfect score on PFF's new grading scale, whereas Watt played on a scale that allowed players to break 100 points. Plus, you're talking about an argument where people are going to sit on both sides of the fence; hence why I said "rivaled". There is no definitive answer, but to blow off Donald and act as if he's not doing amazing things that are worthy of being DPOY when JJ Watt is still in the league is silly.

When did I claim that? I'm simply saying nobody even compares to Watt. Not just in sacks, but in playmaking ability and overall athletic skill. He could still win DPOY because that is only focused on one side. I do like Donald but to argue him over Watt is to argue him over the best player in the league.

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

When did I claim that? I'm simply saying nobody even compares to Watt. Not just in sacks, but in playmaking ability and overall athletic skill. He could still win DPOY because that is only focused on one side. I do like Donald but to argue him over Watt is to argue him over the best player in the league.

Right here....

You can argue all you want, but Aaron Donald was the most effective defensive tackle in the league and just as dominant as Watt was during prior seasons, he just did it from a less flashy position.

Seriously, if JJ Watt had come into the league in 2014 and Donald in 2011, we would probably be flipping the script on this one. JJ Watt has just been around longer, earned that reputation, and now no one wants to have that challenged because it's been that way for four seasons before Donald's second season. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[ludy51]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Right here....

You can argue all you want, but Aaron Donald was the most effective defensive tackle in the league and just as dominant as Watt was during prior seasons, he just did it from a less flashy position.

I'm not sure you read the rest of my post... Watt is better but you do have to perform and put up stats to win it. Not just looking pretty.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, ludy51 said:

I'm not sure you read the rest of my post... Watt is better but you do have to perform and put up stats to win it. Not just looking pretty.

See my edit because I think people are so caught up in Watt having been the best defender in the league by a wide margin for so long that they are unable to accept that anyone else might be just as good.

Also, I'm not really sure what you mean by, "Not just looking pretty."

Edited April 22, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[GrimCoconut]

I would really like Kevin Dodd somehow on this team. I don't think he'll be there in the 2nd but wow would that be awesome if he was or if we traded up to get him if we got Tunsil in the first. 

[BmoreBird22]

15 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I would really like Kevin Dodd somehow on this team. I don't think he'll be there in the 2nd but wow would that be awesome if he was or if we traded up to get him if we got Tunsil in the first. 

There are so many prospects that I REALLY want in the second. Dodd, Alexander, Fuller, Doctson, etc. 

[ludy51]

23 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

See my edit because I think people are so caught up in Watt having been the best defender in the league by a wide margin for so long that they are unable to accept that anyone else might be just as good.

Also, I'm not really sure what you mean by, "Not just looking pretty."

More than name value, having to put up stats. Watt is the best player in the league, but needs to actually put up the stats showing it to win the award

I understand your position, I just disagree personally. I do understand your reasoning though.

Edited April 22, 2016 by ludy51

[rmw10]

Are we talking about Watt, Donald, and Mack because we're going to sign these guys in FA?

I hope so

[Moderator 3]

11 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Are we talking about Watt, Donald, and Mack because we're going to sign these guys in FA?

I hope so

Exactly!  Let's get back to Ravens talk, please.  

[757RavensFan]

15 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I have a tough time justifying any defensive player making that much money. JJ Watt is the only one I'd consider paying that much for.

 Von Miller?

[rmcjacket23]

19 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

 Von Miller?

Tough case. Probably at $16M I'd do it, but he's likely to get $20M or close to it. I wouldn't for that price.

[I AM LEGEND]

I gotta say...its been along time since ive been this excited for an NFL draft. I find myself checking 6 mock drafts a day lol. I'm 100% sure that our positioning in the draft is why this is the case. So with that being said I hope I never have to experience this feeling again.

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, ludy51 said:

More than name value, having to put up stats. Watt is the best player in the league, but needs to actually put up the stats showing it to win the award

I understand your position, I just disagree personally. I do understand your reasoning though.

DT is nearly impossible to put up the same stats as a defensive end, so you have to view them in context. For example, Warren Sapp got 16.5 sacks as a DT and I think that's the most ever. John Randle, a pass rushing nightmare, recorded 15.5 in a season, but averaged about 12 per season. 

Reggie White, on the other hand, was averaging closer to 16, 17 during his heyday. Deacon Jones, the man credited with the term sack, claims to have had seasons of 20, 24, and 26. You will never see that from a defensive tackle. 

If you're concerned about stats, and more specifically sacks, it'll always be skewed in favor of a defensive end over a tackle.

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

Exactly!  Let's get back to Ravens talk, please.  

I honestly figured this discussion would get merged to another thread. 

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Most would agree Watt is the best defensive player in the league, but there are a couple in the same conversations

And this would be the point I wanted to make. I think Watt is the best player in the league, but there are some defensive players biting at his heels.

[ludy51]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

DT is nearly impossible to put up the same stats as a defensive end, so you have to view them in context. For example, Warren Sapp got 16.5 sacks as a DT and I think that's the most ever. John Randle, a pass rushing nightmare, recorded 15.5 in a season, but averaged about 12 per season. 

Reggie White, on the other hand, was averaging closer to 16, 17 during his heyday. Deacon Jones, the man credited with the term sack, claims to have had seasons of 20, 24, and 26. You will never see that from a defensive tackle. 

If you're concerned about stats, and more specifically sacks, it'll always be skewed in favor of a defensive end over a tackle.

I was simply mentioning stats for DPOY, not overall performance 

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, ludy51 said:

I was simply mentioning stats for DPOY, not overall performance 

Again, though, stats aren't everything. Remember when Suggs won it? He had like 14 sacks to Jared Allen's 20. It's more than stats

[ludy51]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Again, though, stats aren't everything. Remember when Suggs won it? He had like 14 sacks to Jared Allen's 20. It's more than stats

Yes, but if you're talking awards, it's the biggest factor

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, ludy51 said:

Yes, but if you're talking awards, it's the biggest factor

These guys watch football for a living. They're doing a little more than box score scouting. It's the same reason Von Miller beat out Aldon Smith for DROY, despite Smith breaking or tying the NFL rookie sack record.

[ludy51]

9 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

These guys watch football for a living. They're doing a little more than box score scouting. It's the same reason Von Miller beat out Aldon Smith for DROY, despite Smith breaking or tying the NFL rookie sack record.

 

11 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Again, though, stats aren't everything. Remember when Suggs won it? He had like 14 sacks to Jared Allen's 20. It's more than stats

 

10 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

Yes, but if you're talking awards, it's the biggest factor