Next up: Pro-bowl, Free Agency, Draft and the Salary Cap

[rmw10]

5 minutes ago, Alabama Raven said:

Right - I didn't mean to make it sound like you did.

Beside, my experience with the NFL is that if there is a Free Agent that is appealing and would fit with the Ravens they inevitably sign with either the Patriots or the Steelers. I have very little hope here, it's just an interesting move by Gettleman. Brass balls, that guy. 

Definitely takes some guts to make that move.  It's not often a CB of his caliber hits the open market, and even though he's going on 29, there's still going to be a ton of interest.  Bizarre day, to say the least.

[KDUBB44]

I think Norman has the potential to be a free agent flop pending his contract...

[usmccharles]

28 minutes ago, KDUBB44 said:

I think Norman has the potential to be a free agent flop pending his contract...

Based on? 

[donkeyking64]

46 minutes ago, MiamiRaven55 said:

I'm hoping Jacksonville swoops in and signs Norman.

 

39 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

I think Jax still has a ton of cap space left.  I could see him landing there.  If they do, hopefully its before the draft.  

 

38 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He'd also fit what Gus Bradley likes to do with zone cover guys.

A lot of ifs and if thens. I thought the same thing but at the end of the day, how confident are you that this results in the best possible scenario for Baltimore.

I think Tunsil is great, and I would love a left tackle of the future especially considering how much I dislike Monroe. But I hope that Monroe has a great 2016 season, and I think Front Office is thinking the same if they were to look at the draft board and go defensive player.

So if Jax were to go Norman, who's to say they wouldn't take another great defensive player with their pick?

[MiamiRaven55]

5 minutes ago, donkeyking64 said:

 

 

A lot of ifs and if thens. I thought the same thing but at the end of the day, how confident are you that this results in the best possible scenario for Baltimore.

I think Tunsil is great, and I would love a left tackle of the future especially considering how much I dislike Monroe. But I hope that Monroe has a great 2016 season, and I think Front Office is thinking the same if they were to look at the draft board and go defensive player.

So if Jax were to go Norman, who's to say they wouldn't take another great defensive player with their pick?

As long as they don't take Ramsey if he was still available, doesn't matter to me what other great defensive player they select. My thoughts were if they sign Norman perhaps they would draft someone else besides Ramsey. Just my personal preference.

[donkeyking64]

1 hour ago, Alabama Raven said:

Right - I didn't mean to make it sound like you did.

Beside, my experience with the NFL is that if there is a Free Agent that is appealing and would fit with the Ravens they inevitably sign with either the Patriots or the Steelers. I have very little hope here, it's just an interesting move by Gettleman. Brass balls, that guy. ,

Such as whom?

If your experience goes back to 1996, the Ravens have gotten some pretty good free agents that could have gone to those other teams too. We don't even have to dig that deep in the vault: Daryl Smith, Steve Smith, Q. Dig in the vault and there's the special teams guy that came from New England, Lorenzo Neal, Rod Woodson,

At the end of the day, depending on your experience with the NFL, you might know that the Ravens don't make splashes in free agency anyway. Nor do the Pats or Steelers or Packers. Guys that play for the Ravens - to your point, consider those teams, but it's a moot point, as is my counter point to your point, when you think about how these teams fill in holes as opposed to spending big money

Edited April 20, 2016 by donkeyking64

[K-Dog]

4 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

 

I guess that's why we're on message boards.  LOL

That is a contender for my favorite post ever. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

22 hours ago, redlobster said:

Why is Paxton lynch visiting with Baltimore?

 

seems dumb even as a smoke screen

My guess is that with Goff/Wentz going 1-2 we wanted to talk to Lynch about who has shown serious interest and might be willing to trade in front of San Fran to get him.

Baltimore learns of potential suitors to net a haul of picks and Lynch would be motivated to be forthcoming because he stands to make more $$ getting pick at 6 instead of even 7, but more likely mid-to-late 1st rd.

plus they got a look at a raw but talented guy who may be on the board with our 2nd pick if they're interested in finding a guy to groom.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I actually think Carolina did the right thing. Norman was looking for absurd money and really only has 1 very good season under his belt. There isn't a track record of consistency. 

Without the possibility of a long term deal no sense in tying up all that cap on a player who isn't part of your future.

now he goes to the open market where he'll see his value. Most teams have spent all their money, or a good chunk of it at least so I don't think he's gonna get close to the $20m/yr I heard he was seeking. 

Theres a chance he could still end up back in Carolina. Could be Car didn't think anyone would pay what he's asking, dared him to find it on the open market, and they bring back the best deal he can find. That way they let a largely tapped market determine his value which is likely lower than what he's asking and could've gotten in the beginning of FA.

interesting for sure. And we did just open up a good chunk of cap space... I think we have $11m+ 

highly doubt we'd sign him even if he wasn't going to be paid an enormous amount... I like him, but not for Revis money.

[TurkishRaven]

28 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I actually think Carolina did the right thing. Norman was looking for absurd money and really only has 1 very good season under his belt. There isn't a track record of consistency. 

Without the possibility of a long term deal no sense in tying up all that cap on a player who isn't part of your future.

now he goes to the open market where he'll see his value. Most teams have spent all their money, or a good chunk of it at least so I don't think he's gonna get close to the $20m/yr I heard he was seeking. 

Theres a chance he could still end up back in Carolina. Could be Car didn't think anyone would pay what he's asking, dared him to find it on the open market, and they bring back the best deal he can find. That way they let a largely tapped market determine his value which is likely lower than what he's asking and could've gotten in the beginning of FA.

interesting for sure. And we did just open up a good chunk of cap space... I think we have $11m+ 

highly doubt we'd sign him even if he wasn't going to be paid an enormous amount... I like him, but not for Revis money.

 

idk how much would it save us but cut Monroe, sign with norman, draft up to pick tunsil or down to pick stanley? just thinking..

 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Sure, I whiffed on this one. But then again, I still don't get it...

1. I really don't understand the desire to move up. Its almost as if the Eagles feel there's like a bunch of teams biding for Wentz's services, when I really don't see any. I think people have long since moved off the "Dallas might take a QB at 4" train, and that only leaves SF as a viable competitor for Wentz. If that's the case, its not like Philly would have much difficulty moving ahead of them (a whole one spot) to get the QB. Heck, I have no doubt we would have gladly swapped picks with Philly if we knew they weren't taking a player we wanted, and probably would have done it for just a third round pick.

2. I still don't buy that this notion of "lets let him sit for awhile" actually works, particularly with this current QB landscape. He's not sitting behind quality QBs where he figures to learn much, and he's quite literally the 3rd QB in year 1, making him a gameday inactive. The #2 overall pick in the draft is heading for voluntary gameday inactive for the whole season in an ideal scenario. Not even for injury... completely planned.

Tough sell for me. What do I really want to see? I really want to see Bradford or Daniel plays exceptionally well next season, mostly because it will really stir the pot with Philly fans. Here you are investing a ton of draft stock in this player, and you're just going to trade away a QB who was already playing well for a QB from ND State who's ceiling is the moon and who's floor is Ryan Leaf. Quite the gamble there.

One way or another, you're paying $22M to Sam Bradford to play here for one year, and you're going to spend somewhere around $10-15M this season on two QBs who you don't ever want to play.

And I don't even like Wentz. If he's Joe Flacco good, it might be a tough sell that this trade was worth it.

I agree with u, don't think it's a good move for Philly - just knew they didn't view Bradford or Daniel as their franchise guy.

i don't like it and wouldn't have done it but I get it. They don't have the long term answer on the roster.

They've seen that in the past 15-20 years their success has been tied to the QB position. With McNabb and Foles' one great year they made the playoffs and were contenders. With the same rosters those 2 had but without that QB they haven't even made the playoffs.

The NFC East is awful so even if they're not very good they're going to win some divisional games, and don't see themselves picking in the Top 10 again for a while. 

Looking at the landscape of QB prospects in CFB they don't see any franchise type player coming out that will be available outside the top couple picks...

So, if you really like Wentz - which they do - and believe there's a good chance that at the very least he'll bring some stability and consistency to the franchise - which they believe - then there just isn't going to be another chance to get this kind of guy.... Or it'll cost a whole heck of a lot more then.

And they had to jump to 2 to guarantee they get their guy. It's not just about leapfrogging SF bc they could've moved up too. Plus there was no guarantee they'd find a willing partner to trade back especially with potential All-Pros like Tunsil, Ramsey, Bosa, Jack and Buckner on the board. May not find a willing partner if they're in love with only 1 or 2 of those guys and know they won't be left at 8.

Right now was the right time for then while the other QB needy teams are prob hesitant to jump up in a bidding war without knowing who LA is gonna take. If SF only likes Goff and LA takes him, ur screwed if you've already moved up. Philly loves both and was willing to take that risk. 

And if Bradford plays really well there's no issue. They can either flip him and recoup some picks or they can let Wentz sit another year or 2 and eventually resign him to a 2nd contract for less than if he played from day 1 and is a stud. What matters is in their minds they've got both a short term and potential long term answer at QB, which in theory gives them the opportunity to compete now and hopefully for the next 10 years. 

If Wentz is a franchise QB they got a steal. If he's not, it sucks for them, but they shouldn't regret it. They've had talented rosters and without that QB they've done nothing.  

 

Anyway... All that really matters is a couple great prospects are going to be right there for our taking. 

Thank you LA, Tenn, Philly and Cleveland.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 hours ago, TurkishRaven said:

 

idk how much would it save us but cut Monroe, sign with norman, draft up to pick tunsil or down to pick stanley? just thinking..

 

Saves barely $2m unless he's a post June 1st cut. Problem with this is what happens if Tunsil's not there? Stanley isn't a sure thing. 

And either way it doesn't solve the depth issue. You're banking on a rookie to be solid from day 1 and still only have Hurst and Wesley as depth at tackle.

Besides, Norman is most likely a pipe dream. He'll get paid, and probably more than he'll ever live up to - I don't know if I want that to be us. Plus blockbuster moves just ain't our thing.

[usmccharles]

No on Josh Norman, I think Car did the right thing.  The guy had one stand out year, while a solid CB, he isn't worth the money he is asking which I heard was around 16mill.  I think Car's offer of 11mill was fair. 

6 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I actually think Carolina did the right thing. Norman was looking for absurd money and really only has 1 very good season under his belt. There isn't a track record of consistency. Agree Completely

Without the possibility of a long term deal no sense in tying up all that cap on a player who isn't part of your future.

now he goes to the open market where he'll see his value. Most teams have spent all their money, or a good chunk of it at least so I don't think he's gonna get close to the $20m/yr I heard he was seeking. 

Theres a chance he could still end up back in Carolina. Could be Car didn't think anyone would pay what he's asking, dared him to find it on the open market, and they bring back the best deal he can find. That way they let a largely tapped market determine his value which is likely lower than what he's asking and could've gotten in the beginning of FA.

interesting for sure. And we did just open up a good chunk of cap space... I think we have $11m+ 

highly doubt we'd sign him even if he wasn't going to be paid an enormous amount... I like him, but not for Revis money.

I read somewhere that we had 15, cant remember where...

[OldToby]

Josh Norman, Eric Weddle, and Jimmy Smith would be a terrifying secondary. 

[Maryland]

I'm waiting to hear news of Norman doing something dumb off-field to get the contract offer pulled. Sometimes bad news breaks slowly, as we saw with Will Hill lol.

I mean, it's probably just a money thing, but I can't shake the thought lol. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by Maryland

[Daft Classic]

7 hours ago, Maryland said:

I'm waiting to hear news of Norman doing something dumb off-field to get the contract offer pulled. Sometimes bad news breaks slowly, as we saw with Will Hill lol.

I mean, it's probably just a money thing, but I can't shake the thought lol. 

Wasn't he prepared to sit out part of the season if the Panthers didn't make him one of the highest paid players?

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, Maryland said:

I'm waiting to hear news of Norman doing something dumb off-field to get the contract offer pulled. Sometimes bad news breaks slowly, as we saw with Will Hill lol.

I mean, it's probably just a money thing, but I can't shake the thought lol. 

From what the organization said, it appeared they felt there was no way Norman would sign a long-term deal this year, meaning he likely would head to FA next offseason.

I sort of get it from that perspective... why pay him a huge sum this year when you know he will be gone next year? But then again, the Panthers are obviously a SB contender, and keeping him for this year, possibly winning a SB, and then letting him walk isn't the worst idea ever.

I do sort of like the move though. I'm a big fan of teams taking stances against giving what is essentially QB-type money to non-QB players, and Norman is asking for $14-15M a year on a new deal. 

[757RavensFan]

Someone tell me where to go to apply for McShay's job! Why would we pick Stanley if Tunsil is STILL available???

"In Todd McShay's latest mock draft, three of the top prospects -- Ole Miss offensive tackle Laremy Tunsil, Oregon defensive end DeForest Buckner and UCLA linebacker Myles Jack -- are all available when the Baltimore Ravens are on the clock with the No. 6 overall pick.

So whom do the Ravens select? McShay has Baltimore going with Notre Dame offensive tackle Ronnie Stanley."

 

[Kinda_Dante]

3 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Someone tell me where to go to apply for McShay's job! Why would we pick Stanley if Tunsil is STILL available???

"In Todd McShay's latest mock draft, three of the top prospects -- Ole Miss offensive tackle Laremy Tunsil, Oregon defensive end DeForest Buckner and UCLA linebacker Myles Jack -- are all available when the Baltimore Ravens are on the clock with the No. 6 overall pick.

So whom do the Ravens select? McShay has Baltimore going with Notre Dame offensive tackle Ronnie Stanley."

 

I'm pretty sure I'd break my tv if this happened.

[BmoreBird22]

6 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

From what the organization said, it appeared they felt there was no way Norman would sign a long-term deal this year, meaning he likely would head to FA next offseason.

I sort of get it from that perspective... why pay him a huge sum this year when you know he will be gone next year? But then again, the Panthers are obviously a SB contender, and keeping him for this year, possibly winning a SB, and then letting him walk isn't the worst idea ever.

I do sort of like the move though. I'm a big fan of teams taking stances against giving what is essentially QB-type money to non-QB players, and Norman is asking for $14-15M a year on a new deal. 

But at the same time, they had like  $18M in cap space prior to his release, so it's not like they were hurting for cap.

[rmcjacket23]

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

But at the same time, they had like  $18M in cap space prior to his release, so it's not like they were hurting for cap.

True, though its deceptive like most, since they still have draft picks to sign. From what I've read, they had several extensions they wanted to give out, and $18M might not even cover that.

One way or another, its not a bad stance to take. If the guy makes it clear he's not likely to be here long term, not hard to understand the need to get rid of him.

What'll be funnier is I don't think its going to have a dramatic impact on that team. Still think they're one of the better teams in the league without him.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

True, though its deceptive like most, since they still have draft picks to sign. From what I've read, they had several extensions they wanted to give out, and $18M might not even cover that.

One way or another, its not a bad stance to take. If the guy makes it clear he's not likely to be here long term, not hard to understand the need to get rid of him.

What'll be funnier is I don't think its going to have a dramatic impact on that team. Still think they're one of the better teams in the league without him.

Well, I figure their draft class will probably cost them like $4-$5M when considering the rule of 51, so it's not a monumental amount. I haven't heard about extensions, but I am in agreement that if Josh doesn't want to be there for the long haul, don't make him be.

That defense is well designed to disguise flaws. Benewekerie, or however it's spelled, moving back to the outside should help mitigate the loss of Norman. He played really well his rookie season, but the slot was not for him.

 I just don't see $16M value he's (Norman) seeking. He plays in a Tampa 2 scheme that guards its corners, much like Seattle. It's a scheme that's going to churn out quality play when the player fits the needed profile.

[sflegend89]

Would be pretty slick on Norman's part to sign a 1 year deal somewhere, prove he's not a one year wonder, then cash in big during FA next year when the cap will be even higher. Unless he can get someone to overpay for him right now which is totally possible, plenty of teams with massive amounts of cap space and need help in the secondary.

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, I figure their draft class will probably cost them like $4-$5M when considering the rule of 51, so it's not a monumental amount. I haven't heard about extensions, but I am in agreement that if Josh doesn't want to be there for the long haul, don't make him be.

That defense is well designed to disguise flaws. Benewekerie, or however it's spelled, moving back to the outside should help mitigate the loss of Norman. He played really well his rookie season, but the slot was not for him.

 I just don't see $16M value he's (Norman) seeking. He plays in a Tampa 2 scheme that guards its corners, much like Seattle. It's a scheme that's going to churn out quality play when the player fits the needed profile.

I have a tough time justifying any defensive player making that much money. JJ Watt is the only one I'd consider paying that much for.

[BmoreBird22]

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I have a tough time justifying any defensive player making that much money. JJ Watt is the only one I'd consider paying that much for.

Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will likely, and rightfully, make about that soon.

[ludy51]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will likely, and rightfully, make about that soon.

Nobody is as dominant as Watt not even them

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

But at the same time, they had like  $18M in cap space prior to his release, so it's not like they were hurting for cap.

I don't think it's about the cap...

hes been making the rounds to all the sports shows and basking in the spotlight. He's openly talked about the negotiations and his desire to be a top paid player, and his willingness to sit out of the offseason if his demands aren't met.

if you give into that behavior, when the rest of your team is able to see it publicly unfold in front of them, that's dangerous business - especially when you have a bunch of young, talented players. 

It tells everyone else to just hold out, make threats and you'll get what you want.

plus they know Norman can only succeed to that level in certain situations. There's a reason he had a tough time breaking into the team. He needs to be protected because he freelances WAY too much and takes a ton of risks. It's part of what made him so good last year, but he needs very talented and disciplined players, and the right scheme around him or he hangs the rest of the D out to dry. 

He could thrive in Denver, Seattle, KC, Minn where they have strong safety play to guard him and a strong pass rush to force the ball out of the QBs hands quickly.

But I think there are a ton of teams where he would appear to be a marginal player and give up a lot of big plays. 

If he's smart he'll take a little less to go back to Carolina or a team like that where he can excel and know he'll get most of the money on the contract and earn a 2nd big contract as opposed to going to a bad defense and becoming a cap casualty in 2-3 years, and maybe out of the league in 3-4 years when his play no longer justifies the circus he can create. 

[edthehead]

he had 1 good year , 

I think I have read somewhere, This is the first time he played all 16 games,

so what is the hype and why are we so into him here,

he could have had a great contract year , get his money and "oh well"

he kinda reminds me of Cary williams,

not worth it 

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, ludy51 said:

Nobody is as dominant as Watt not even them

Donald graded out as more dominant than what by PFF and Mack was probably close, for what that's worth.

[ludy51]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Donald graded out as more dominant than what by PFF and Mack was probably close, for what that's worth.

Maybe but PFF is hardly perfect + Watt was playing through a groin injury most of the year if I remember correctly