2016 Edge Rusher thread

[rmw10]

If he declares I bet he goes earlier than people would think right now.

Not much question for me. Might be a similar situation to Bruce Irvin in a way. Might not be picked that high but I can't honestly say I'd be too surprised if he was.

[JoeyFlex5]

Tim Williams might be on the light side but damn can he get after a QB.

so can Leonard Floyd but he's disliked by many around here

[rmw10]

Andddd Tim Williams is going back to school...

 

Crimson_Cover ‏@Crimson_Cover  8m

8 minutes ago

Tim Williams announces, again, that he'll be back at UA in 2016.

[allblackraven]

Andddd Tim Williams is going back to school...

 

Crimson_Cover ‏@Crimson_Cover  8m

8 minutes ago

Tim Williams announces, again, that he'll be back at UA in 2016.

Smart move

[ravensnick]

I do like Shaq, as I previously mentioned.

However I had to change my pick in the poll, as I don't think he'd be a good fit in Baltimore; he lacks the ideal bending and speed to be a 3-4 OLB. 

I don't see the comparison with Za'Darius/Dupree though.. they were both much more agile, our 4th rounder used a ton of swim moves and Dupree was just a freaking fast/unpolished edge-rusher, more similar to Floyd.

I'd say he's the next Robert Ayers.

Now, it's not that I have to pull for Lawson at any cost; I'm not his mom nor I'd take him at #6 overall, but I don't know if you've ever seen Upshaw spinning or using the hands like he does.

Even the "good when unblocked" tag sounds unfair imo:

(I don't want to fill an entire forum's page with gifs, so I'll just highlight his spin)

(spins against Stanley)

I don't have enough time to dig into vids now, but he will fare well as a base 4-3 DE and when coaches don't ask him to 'spy'.

 

Granted Shaq was hurt, but Kevin Dodd really stole the spotlight from Lawson in the playoffs. Dodd looks like a first rounder and probably a better NFL player. I also agree that Shaq is pretty much locked as a 4-3 player. 

Edited January 14, 2016 by ravensnick

[BmoreBird22]

Where does Dodd project as far as 4-3/3-4, or does it even matter?

He's a first round pick, easy. He was nasty in the playoffs

[GrimCoconut]

Jonathan Allen reportedly returning to the Tide for one last ride

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000623591/article/jonathan-allen-hints-hes-returning-for-senior-year-at-alabama

Scratch him off the list

Edited January 16, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[Dubs]

Other peoples thoughts on Theiren Cockran?

 

Just started watching him, he has a really nice get off, some quick twitch and it looks like he can easily add to his frame. His production seems oddly low, it did not reflect the small amount I could find in terms of how he impacts a play. 

[GrimCoconut]

Other peoples thoughts on Theiren Cockran?

 

Just started watching him, he has a really nice get off, some quick twitch and it looks like he can easily add to his frame. His production seems oddly low, it did not reflect the small amount I could find in terms of how he impacts a play. 

Haven't keyed in on him. I'll go and watch some Minnesota games and see what I think. 

[PurpleCity5]

This edge rush class has taken a brutal hit.

[GrimCoconut]

This edge rush class has taken a brutal hit.

Why's that?

[Edgar]

Tim Williams might be on the light side but damn can he get after a QB.

Did he declare?

If so,that guy is explosive.

[rmw10]

Did he declare?

If so,that guy is explosive.

 

Nope.  Staying in school.

[Edgar]

Nope.  Staying in school.

Ahhh. Thanks

[KDUBB44]

Noah Spence in the 2nd?

[CalvinSmoke]

Noah Spence in the 2nd?

I'm about it

[GrimCoconut]

Noah Spence in the 2nd?

Absolutely if he's there.

[ALPHA]

There are a lot of power-to-speed ends in this class.

[Tank11]

I absolutely do not like this edge rush class. 

[JoeyFlex5]

the more i look at the draft order and the prospects, the more i could imagine bosa falling to us, as a matter of fact i think it is almost likely, im not sure if dallas wants an edge rusher over a DT, and i think cleveland wants a qb while SD wants an OT or a DT or ramsey. so the question becomes... do the ravens want bosa? who would we pass on bosa for? i would prefer bosa over ramsey by quite a bit but i have to question if ozzie would feel the same. 

 

between bosa and ramsey who would ozzie prefer?

[BmoreBird22]

the more i look at the draft order and the prospects, the more i could imagine bosa falling to us, as a matter of fact i think it is almost likely, im not sure if dallas wants an edge rusher over a DT, and i think cleveland wants a qb while SD wants an OT or a DT or ramsey. so the question becomes... do the ravens want bosa? who would we pass on bosa for? i would prefer bosa over ramsey by quite a bit but i have to question if ozzie would feel the same. 

 

between bosa and ramsey who would ozzie prefer?

I just don't find it to be a great scheme fit for Bosa to be in the 3-4. I you could argue teams play like 50% of their snaps in the nickel, but would that be what you'd want out of your sixth overall pick?

I was talking to rmw about this, but Ramsey brings a lot of versatility to be able to play any position on the field and I think if he ends up as a safety, he could be invaluable as a cover safety on the athletic tight ends around the league, like a Gronkowski, Eifert, Graham, etc.

[JoeyFlex5]

I just don't find it to be a great scheme fit for Bosa to be in the 3-4. I you could argue teams play like 50% of their snaps in the nickel, but would that be what you'd want out of your sixth overall pick?

I was talking to rmw about this, but Ramsey brings a lot of versatility to be able to play any position on the field and I think if he ends up as a safety, he could be invaluable as a cover safety on the athletic tight ends around the league, like a Gronkowski, Eifert, Graham, etc.

bosa wouldnt be losing snaps to anyone though, thats the thing. just because you run a 3-4 doesnt mean the DE cant play, there are plenty of OLBs who can play with their hand in the dirt and as a standup backer. 

 

i just never understood this argument at all, it holds about as much water as saying "he didnt play in a pro style system so he wont ever succeed in one". i mean do you honestly think there are 2 OLBs on the team that can take bosas snaps? hes dominant in the run game, just a total game wrecker there, and in the pass rush let him pin his ears back and get to the qb. just because you run a 3-4 doesnt mean your LBs have to be able to drop in coverage, theres 3 jobs to a 3-4 OLB, defend the run, pass rush, and drop back, if you can do 2 out of 3 at an elite level then you have yourselves a top 5 talent.

[BmoreBird22]

bosa wouldnt be losing snaps to anyone though, thats the thing. just because you run a 3-4 doesnt mean the DE cant play, there are plenty of OLBs who can play with their hand in the dirt and as a standup backer. 

 

i just never understood this argument at all, it holds about as much water as saying "he didnt play in a pro style system so he wont ever succeed in one". i mean do you honestly think there are 2 OLBs on the team that can take bosas snaps? hes dominant in the run game, just a total game wrecker there, and in the pass rush let him pin his ears back and get to the qb. just because you run a 3-4 doesnt mean your LBs have to be able to drop in coverage, theres 3 jobs to a 3-4 OLB, defend the run, pass rush, and drop back, if you can do 2 out of 3 at an elite level then you have yourselves a top 5 talent.

He's 6'6" (which would be the tallest outside linebacker in the league) and doesn't have the natural bend you want from an outside linebacker. He's about the same height as Brent Urban who's a DE for the Ravens.

 

I never said it has to do with him dropping into coverage or with his ability to stop the run or rush the passer, so I'm not sure why you jumped to any conclusions at all. If he were willing to play the role of JJ Watt and be a dominant 3-4 DE, then I'd be all for it, but I don't see a place for him as an OLB. 

He's actually about as tall as JJ Watt and almost the same weight, something he could very well achieve by bulking up in an NFL weight room. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[JoeyFlex5]

He's 6'6" (which would be the tallest outside linebacker in the league) and doesn't have the natural bend you want from an outside linebacker. He's about the same height as Brent Urban who's a DE for the Ravens.

 

I never said it has to do with him dropping into coverage or with his ability to stop the run or rush the passer, so I'm not sure why you jumped to any conclusions at all. If he were willing to play the role of JJ Watt and be a dominant 3-4 DE, then I'd be all for it, but I don't see a place for him as an OLB. 

He's actually about as tall as JJ Watt and almost the same weight, something he could very well achieve by bulking up in an NFL weight room. 

i wasnt jumping to conclusions, i was just trying to cover all the bases as to why one could say he cant play OLB, i just dont see the problem with looking at him for a 3-4 team, he is a gamewrecker and i dont think he needs to play with his hand in the dirt on every down to produce. 

 

i wouldnt want him as a DE for us though, i prefer buckner by a mile and i think bosa's athleticism would be wasted by putting him there, i really like him on the edge going against the RT, think hes a 8-10 sack per year guy in that position whether its in a 3-4 or a 4-3 and i think he has plenty of TFL in both systems as well.

[BmoreBird22]

i wasnt jumping to conclusions, i was just trying to cover all the bases as to why one could say he cant play OLB, i just dont see the problem with looking at him for a 3-4 team, he is a gamewrecker and i dont think he needs to play with his hand in the dirt on every down to produce. 

 

i wouldnt want him as a DE for us though, i prefer buckner by a mile and i think bosa's athleticism would be wasted by putting him there, i really like him on the edge going against the RT, think hes a 8-10 sack per year guy in that position whether its in a 3-4 or a 4-3 and i think he has plenty of TFL in both systems as well.

I love Bosa as a player, just not as an outside linebacker. I think he could fulfill the OLB role based purely on his length, strength, and already extremely refined hand usage, but his bend around the edge is an issue for me. 

 

If they put him in the 3-4 as a DE and said, "Pin your ears back and blow up your gap," I think he'd be phenomenal. I view him as a wrecking ball who can just manhandle the strong side and really force teams to play away from his side. 

If the Ravens embraced a move to the 4-3, he'd be first on my board of players to grab because I think he could play anywhere on the defensive front in a 4-3.

[PurpleCity5]

He's 6'6" (which would be the tallest outside linebacker in the league) and doesn't have the natural bend you want from an outside linebacker. He's about the same height as Brent Urban who's a DE for the Ravens.

 

I never said it has to do with him dropping into coverage or with his ability to stop the run or rush the passer, so I'm not sure why you jumped to any conclusions at all. If he were willing to play the role of JJ Watt and be a dominant 3-4 DE, then I'd be all for it, but I don't see a place for him as an OLB. 

He's actually about as tall as JJ Watt and almost the same weight, something he could very well achieve by bulking up in an NFL weight room. 

I don't think he has to be a full time OLB. I think he can rush as both a OLB and a DE, if he were to come here, then I think he'll fill in the roll occupied by McPhee. I don't think height can be a problem for him if he can add more bend to his pass rush, Julius Peppers is a guy who comes to mind, he's a 6'7 287 pounds, and a 4-3 DE converted to a 3-4 OLB. I personally feel that the concerns over College prospects ability to shift from a 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB are a bit overblown, many players who make the switch will have new assignments but follow the same concepts that they would have in a 4-3. The biggest change will be in his mechanics when reading blockers from different angles. I'm not saying that you're insinuating that his transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4 will be tough, just stating that its overblown honestly. 

 

He doesn't have to be a full time rush OLB, in nickle packages he'll rush from the inside with Sizzle and Doom on the outside. I don't think height will restrict him from being successful. In my opinion, him and Za'Darius will compete to replace Upshaw's role, and Doom will go back to his old role rushing on passing downs.

Edited January 23, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[BmoreBird22]

I don't think he has to be a full time OLB. I think he can rush as both a OLB and a DE, if he were to come here, then I think he'll fill in the roll occupied by McPhee. I don't think height can be a problem for him if he can add more bend to his pass rush, Julius Peppers is a guy who comes to mind, he's a 6'7 287 pounds, and a 4-3 DE converted to a 3-4 OLB. I personally feel that the concerns over College prospects ability to shift from a 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB are a bit overblown, many players who make the switch will have new assignments but follow the same concepts that they would have in a 4-3. The biggest change will be in his mechanics when reading blockers from different angles. I'm not saying that you're insinuating that his transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4 will be tough, just stating that its overblown honestly.

I'm not saying that there's some huge transition with learning a whole new position, like switching from safety to linebacker, like Deone Buccanen did.

 

Again, the main concern I have with Bosa is his bend around the edge. He's got great knee bend, but he doesn't seem to bend well around the edge and doesn't have much of a shoulder dip to allow him to challenge the edge. 

Personally, I see nothing wrong with asking him to be a 3-4 DE in the mold of Watt that will be a one gapper (might actually be a good idea to move to the one gap with Brandon Williams showing he can blow up a gap and Timmy Jernigan being ideal for that) and just blow it up.

And like you said, he can move inside on nickel situations and rush the passer from there, causing a lot of problems because of his ability to really blow up offensive lineman. It'd be great to have consistent interior pressure. 

[January J]

the more i look at the draft order and the prospects, the more i could imagine bosa falling to us, as a matter of fact i think it is almost likely, im not sure if dallas wants an edge rusher over a DT, and i think cleveland wants a qb while SD wants an OT or a DT or ramsey. so the question becomes... do the ravens want bosa? who would we pass on bosa for? i would prefer bosa over ramsey by quite a bit but i have to question if ozzie would feel the same. 

 

between bosa and ramsey who would ozzie prefer?

I'm actually starting to think that Tunsil may fall to us. It's certainly possible.. Say it goes like this:

1)Bosa

2)Goff/lynch

3)Ramsey

4) Ashawn Robinson / Buckner

5) Vernon Hargreaves

In this scenario we'd likely have our pick between Tunsil and possibly Buckner..which would be a difficult choice but I think You just have to go tunsil.

[KDUBB44]

Bosa isn't a good fit in a 3-4, just like Clowney

[GrimCoconut]

I like Bosa but I do wonder if he's going to be maximized here in terms of talent. I like Spence more as a fit for us, even Ngakoue. I think the best OLBs in the NFL hover around the 6-3 height. He just doesn't bend well to play OLB here. I haven't seen him effectively rush the QB as a stand-up rusher, either. Then again, it can happen. Just because a guy like him doesn't exist doesn't mean he can't be the exception & not the rule. 

 

I have to agree with Bmore in that he may be better as a 3-4 DE who occasionally can rush the passer as an OLB but he's more often than not playing DE than OLB.