2016 Edge Rusher thread

[Winchester]

Density = mass/volume. Weight = mass * gravitational acceleration. So, assuming you're still on Earth, the more mass something has, the greater the weight. The more muscle mass one has, the heavier they will be, being that muscle is denser than fat. But this all depends on the muscle/fat ratio as well.

Very good post. To put it in English for everybody else. Density could be described as hardness although not exactly a rule. But helpful for understanding. If you fill a box with muscle and the same box with fat,the muscle box will weigh more. The muscle fat ratio is crucial for determining weight. If no fat is present the frame can look as big or as much mass. But without the fat deposits the person will weigh less. Which is how McCrary could cut to 240lbs but everybody could not see a size difference. He still looked 260 lbs. He and Boulware are my favorite ravens defensive players ever.

[JoeyFlex5]

Boldin when he was young b4 injuries took his explosion could easily get open and was awesome after the catch!! The comparisons were rediculous!! He was compared to Fitzgerald as well. Young Boldin and Fitzgerald!! I say that counts as telling themselves he was as good of a prospect as Cooper. Besides being shorter than listed Hargreaves gives up catches in front of him by qbs without NFL armstrength. You can bring it up if I'm wrong here and Hargreaves shows me to be wrong. He could turn out to be a good cornerback but not a game changer. He will struggle as a rookie in my opinion. Especially if ravens draft and play him.

corners give up catches, it happens, no player is 100% perfect, revis is the best corner most of us have ever seen play live and he got absolutely toasted by a 36 year old receiver in the playoffs, ill give you a challenge though, name a corner prospect from the past 5 years that you felt during the draft process, was a safer pick at cb than hargreaves, i cant name one, i dont think i could go back 10 years and find one. and lets avoid using hindsight on this, you can argue patrick peterson but he was more a freak athlete than a cover corner and there was concern over that, and it has proven to be a slight issue for him. 

 

also, putting strong in the same conversation as boldin and fitzgerald is not calling him better than cooper... its comparing one big bodied receiver to another, i personally never saw fitzgerald comparisons so idk where thats coming from, however, jaelen strong did have a great knack for boxing out and shielding the defender from the ball, he was the best wr in the nation at doing that, and boldin was the best wr in the nfl at that, they dont have to be carbon copies to draw fair comparisons. 

[JoeyFlex5]

Yeah don't get me wrong I agree. I think the concerns are blown out of proportion. I bet if we didn't have a shot at him he'd be the most over hyped prospect around. He actually played well against Cooper overall. Just a few mistakes but Cooper was a fantastic prospect in his own right.

As for the topic, I like Bosa then I think my next guy is close between Carl Lawson and Yannick Ngakoue. I do like Ogbah but he has an average jump off the ball. It's not bad but it's less Suggs than I originally thought. My opinion on him may change some depending on how he plays against Tunsil.

i love bosa, no secrets there, hes just a bully and he does it well. in terms of legit 3-4 OLB i think carl lawson is the best in the nation, nobody has a better blend of all attributes needed, he has the athleticism, size, strength, mean streak, motor, pass rushing moves, he does it all at a very high level, he is an injury riddled khalil mack to me(and his injuries are blown out of proportion as well). ngakoue i think is the 2nd best 3-4 OLB in terms of pure pass rushing, 2nd in the nation in sacks while playing from behind against big 10 offenses is one hell of a feat and i think it gives reason to believe he will translate to the next level, dominating pro competition on a sorry squad is always a good sign.

[PurpleCity5]

The idea behind Stanley to Tennessee is that he'd be a dream fit in Chip Kelly's system (think a better version of Jake Fisher), where Tunsil doesn't have the same athleticism.

Again, that's not to say that WILL happen by any stretch. The Browns need help in the trenches and might stick with Manziel, the Cowboys could just take Bosa if they think he's the better player for them than Smith and the Dolphins would be hard-pressed to pass him up if they lose Vernon. But a similar fall to Leonard Williams may not be completely out of the question, and there's a justifiable reason why each team in front of us may simply prefer someone else and that's before someone presumably breaks into the top 10.

Ultimately I agree with Grim - I wouldn't be surprised if one of VH3, Stanley, Bosa or Tunsil were there at 8.

With Chip Stanley would make sense, I was just adding that even if you take away the Chip Kelly situation that Tunsil is still a good pick for them.

[Winchester]

I take blame but just do what I do and ignore it and it'll go away

lol glad it was cleared up. So many peeps see a lean body and guess the weight is far greater. In my best summer shape Im 5'10 1/2" weigh 175-178 lbs. Yet everybody guesses 25 lbs or more over that. I'm always curious how peeps are guessing 203 lbs or more. The original LB you questioned probably doesn't weigh over 230. Not quite edge rusher size yet.

[allblackraven]

I take blame but just do what I do and ignore it and it'll go away

Perfect opportunity to move onto philosophy class.

[Winchester]

corners give up catches, it happens, no player is 100% perfect, revis is the best corner most of us have ever seen play live and he got absolutely toasted by a 36 year old receiver in the playoffs, ill give you a challenge though, name a corner prospect from the past 5 years that you felt during the draft process, was a safer pick at cb than hargreaves, i cant name one, i dont think i could go back 10 years and find one. and lets avoid using hindsight on this, you can argue patrick peterson but he was more a freak athlete than a cover corner and there was concern over that, and it has proven to be a slight issue for him. 

 

also, putting strong in the same conversation as boldin and fitzgerald is not calling him better than cooper... its comparing one big bodied receiver to another, i personally never saw fitzgerald comparisons so idk where thats coming from, however, jaelen strong did have a great knack for boxing out and shielding the defender from the ball, he was the best wr in the nation at doing that, and boldin was the best wr in the nfl at that, they dont have to be carbon copies to draw fair comparisons.

I liked Darby better than I do Hargreaves. I also liked Peters better but Darby is my favorite of last 5 yrs. Peterson was a better prospect as well.

[JoeyFlex5]

I liked Darby better than I do Hargreaves. I also liked Peters better but Darby is my favorite of last 5 yrs. Peterson was a better prospect as well.

peters was far from a safe pick, he had the talent but he wasnt a safe pick because he could self destruct at any minute, and his lack of discipline as a cover corner has hurt him this year because he has given up alot of touchdowns from being too aggressive.  

 

to say you thought, during the draft process, that darby was the best prospect you had seen in recent memory... well thats hard to believe, that makes you one in a million. 

 

and again, with peterson, he was always viewed as an athlete more than a corner, an elite returner and playmaker, but during the draft process was not seen as a safe prospect in terms of coverage, but a high ceiling project guy who will bring immediate value as an elite returner, and that has shown to be pretty true to this day as he still struggles with double moves, sharp cuts, and turning the hips to get upfield. 

 

if you have any evidence of you claiming darby as one of the best cb prospects in recent memory, id like to see it, there have been far too many cb prospects for me to just take you on your word that you just happened to pick the one who is having the hottest rookie year out of all of them lol

[PurpleCity5]

If we do lose then I surely hope Dallas gets a win. 

[DomMcRaven]

If we do lose then I surely hope Dallas gets a win. 

And every other team ahead of us ESPECIALLY the Browns.

[Inqui]

With Chip Stanley would make sense, I was just adding that even if you take away the Chip Kelly situation that Tunsil is still a good pick for them.

Yeah Tunsil could work without Chip - and WalterFootball has been on that particular rumour all year (Tunsil not getting past Tenn, not Chip joining them ) so there could be something to it.

 

I also think a trade back makes a lot of sense for them. None of the BPA candidates at #1 are as clean a fit as you'd like, so trading back four spots to get to a position where the BPA makes more sense while getting two or three free picks out of it (SF apparently have 12 picks fwiw) would be smart imo. And because of that alone, I think the #1 pick would be cheaper than for most other years.

 

Of course, based purely on Lynch's dismal bowl game today if the 9ers trade up for Goff that'd just make the Browns more likely to take Bosa.

[PurpleCity5]

And every other team ahead of us ESPECIALLY the Browns.

Doesn't do much if Cleveland wins. I really hope they take a QB. 

[GrimCoconut]

I wouldn't put much emphasis on how Lynch played today. NFL evaluators look at the full body of work. I'd say this even if he played like a beast.

[Inqui]

I wouldn't put much emphasis on how Lynch played today. NFL evaluators look at the full body of work. I'd say this even if he played like a beast.

Usually I'd agree - and I don't necessarily disagree here - but with one of Goff's questions being his strength of schedule a weak game against an SEC side won't help his cause (though in fairness he did do pretty well against Ole Miss). The 49ers fans don't seem too stressed by his game today though.

 

And it sounds like the Memphis players have kinda packed it in - as shown by this clip of a Memphis guy tackling a ball boy and running off with the ball.

https://www.facebook.com/rusmith/videos/10153689641961140/

[allblackraven]

Usually I'd agree - and I don't necessarily disagree here - but with one of Goff's questions being his strength of schedule a weak game against an SEC side won't help his cause (though in fairness he did do pretty well against Ole Miss). The 49ers fans don't seem too stressed by his game today though.

 

And it sounds like the Memphis players have kinda packed it in - as shown by this clip of a Memphis guy tackling a ball boy and running off with the ball.

https://www.facebook.com/rusmith/videos/10153689641961140/

That's not a souvenir - taken as the evidence (deflated)

 

Cancer is spreading

[allblackraven]

Talking about QB's, can somebody explain to me why is Cody Kessler so underrated? Is it all about his size or something with his play?

 

He was lighting it up in a pro-style offense, surely guy like that would be looked at by NFL teams.

[DomMcRaven]

Doesn't do much if Cleveland wins. I really hope they take a QB. 

Oh it does. They beat the Steelers. That's much alright. 

[rmw10]

Talking about QB's, can somebody explain to me why is Cody Kessler so underrated? Is it all about his size or something with his play?

 

He was lighting it up in a pro-style offense, surely guy like that would be looked at by NFL teams.

 

He doesn't have a particularly strong arm.  He reminds me of an AJ McCarron type - a guy that is best served as a backup but could start for a short period and do well.

Edited December 30, 2015 by rmw10

[52520Andrew]

I wouldn't put much emphasis on how Lynch played today. NFL evaluators look at the full body of work. I'd say this even if he played like a beast.

I think people are going to look at the film a lot more now though.

[rmw10]

peters was far from a safe pick, he had the talent but he wasnt a safe pick because he could self destruct at any minute, and his lack of discipline as a cover corner has hurt him this year because he has given up alot of touchdowns from being too aggressive.  

 

to say you thought, during the draft process, that darby was the best prospect you had seen in recent memory... well thats hard to believe, that makes you one in a million. 

 

and again, with peterson, he was always viewed as an athlete more than a corner, an elite returner and playmaker, but during the draft process was not seen as a safe prospect in terms of coverage, but a high ceiling project guy who will bring immediate value as an elite returner, and that has shown to be pretty true to this day as he still struggles with double moves, sharp cuts, and turning the hips to get upfield. 

 

if you have any evidence of you claiming darby as one of the best cb prospects in recent memory, id like to see it, there have been far too many cb prospects for me to just take you on your word that you just happened to pick the one who is having the hottest rookie year out of all of them lol

 

What he's essentially saying is that Darby is his favorite after seeing him play this year.  I know there were some of the draft guys that liked him, but I don't think many of us could watch the tape available and predict this out of him.  He was about as inconsistent as it gets in college.

[GrimCoconut]

I think people are going to look at the film a lot more now though.

Yeah, but it all depends on how his whole tape looks. You honestly think an NFL team wouldn't take him if they felt he was the best QB just because of one game?

[allblackraven]

He doesn't have a particularly strong arm.  He reminds me of an AJ McCarron type - a guy that is best served as a backup but could start for a short period and do well.

Hrm, I've seen him sling it pretty long (and accurate). Granted with good protection and all the time to set himself up.

[PurpleCity5]

Yeah Tunsil could work without Chip - and WalterFootball has been on that particular rumour all year (Tunsil not getting past Tenn, not Chip joining them ) so there could be something to it.

 

I also think a trade back makes a lot of sense for them. None of the BPA candidates at #1 are as clean a fit as you'd like, so trading back four spots to get to a position where the BPA makes more sense while getting two or three free picks out of it (SF apparently have 12 picks fwiw) would be smart imo. And because of that alone, I think the #1 pick would be cheaper than for most other years.

 

Of course, based purely on Lynch's dismal bowl game today if the 9ers trade up for Goff that'd just make the Browns more likely to take Bosa.

They are a team that can use the extra picks but it will be tough to trade back in this draft, I also question who will be their trade partner. 

[JoeyFlex5]

What he's essentially saying is that Darby is his favorite after seeing him play this year.  I know there were some of the draft guys that liked him, but I don't think many of us could watch the tape available and predict this out of him.  He was about as inconsistent as it gets in college.

exactly, which is why i find it hard to believe that he was saying, during draft season last year, that darby was his favorite cb prospect in years. that simply doesnt sound believable to me and it sounds like hes trying to give himself credibility by saying "i predicted this longshot to be a stud", but theres no credibility if you cant cite these statements. 

[Inqui]

They are a team that can use the extra picks but it will be tough to trade back in this draft, I also question who will be their trade partner. 

If it happens at all, it'd most likely be with the Sailboats wanting to jump the Browns for a QB they particularly like. Because it's an underwhelming class overall and because of how the board stacks up awkwardly for the Titans, I think they'd settle for a lower price to trade back (where if, say, we were at #1 we could demand a king's ransom or just take Bosa if we don't get it) than in previous years gone by, so that kinda trade could be a win-win one.

[PurpleCity5]

If it happens at all, it'd most likely be with the Sailboats wanting to jump the Browns for a QB they particularly like. Because it's an underwhelming class overall and because of how the board stacks up awkwardly for the Titans, I think they'd settle for a lower price to trade back (where if, say, we were at #1 we could demand a king's ransom or just take Bosa if we don't get it) than in previous years gone by, so that kinda trade could be a win-win one.

Yeah, it's a pretty weak draft so it will be tough to trade back. I do think someone can and will jump the gun for a QB. There are plenty of teams who need one, and some who need one badly.

[52520Andrew]

Talking about QB's, can somebody explain to me why is Cody Kessler so underrated? Is it all about his size or something with his play?

He was lighting it up in a pro-style offense, surely guy like that would be looked at by NFL teams.

Problem with him is that he has a ton of talent around him on that team. Most franchise QBs come from smaller schools because they had to make up for a lack of talent.

[52520Andrew]

Yeah, but it all depends on how his whole tape looks. You honestly think an NFL team wouldn't take him if they felt he was the best QB just because of one game?

This one game gets plugged into the evaluations just like everything else. If I am looking at taking a guy to he the future face of my franchise, I am going to look hard at a game like this to see if it is just a bad game or if Auburn figured something out.

[GrimCoconut]

This one game gets plugged into the evaluations just like everything else. If I am looking at taking a guy to he the future face of my franchise, I am going to look hard at a game like this to see if it is just a bad game or if Auburn figured something out.

I agree that it gets considered and likely causes teams to go back and look for stuff, but I doubt it wildly affects his stock. It'll be interesting to see how it does affect him, but I think he'll still be a first round pick. 

[52520Andrew]

I agree that it gets considered and likely causes teams to go back and look for stuff, but I doubt it wildly affects his stock. It'll be interesting to see how it does affect him, but I think he'll still be a first round pick.

We will see. QBs get mocked high during the season all the time only to fall during the evaluation period. Still a long way to the draft