2016 Edge Rusher thread

[RavensFanMania]

Just now, gabefergy said:

I just don't see much difference between 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB. OLBs still have to set the edge against bigger OTs and TEs just like DEs do.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree then.  lol

Run defense is going to be tough either way. He's definitely going to have trouble anchoring on the edge. He's a pass rushing specialist and a pursuit linebacker.

 

[ALPHA]

22 hours ago, gabefergy said:

Disagree with this regarding effort. He's always chasing down plays from the backside. 

That only happens if he wins with his initial move, if he gets stuffed he's out of the play. When he was asked to sit and control gaps against Bama he got pounded.

[Jacquouille]

Finally got to see some tape of Kevin Dodd, I like him but think he's a bit slow for a 1st rounder. He seems technically OK, but I don't see enough burst. I think he's gonna have an average combine, and we will be able to snatch him in the second round.

[allblackraven]

5 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

That only happens if he wins with his initial move, if he gets stuffed he's out of the play. When he was asked to sit and control gaps against Bama he got pounded.

If you're the only above average talent on the D line vs mostly NFL caliber offensive front, there is a zero chance you will control anything. Everybody needs help.

[ALPHA]

9 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

If you're the only above average talent on the D line vs mostly NFL caliber offensive front, there is a zero chance you will control anything. Everybody needs help.

Well the entire line wasn't blocking him, what I'm saying is he doesn't look like he can anchor and play two gap. He's a 4-3 base end or 3 technique tackle.

[January J]

16 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Finally got to see some tape of Kevin Dodd, I like him but think he's a bit slow for a 1st rounder. He seems technically OK, but I don't see enough burst. I think he's gonna have an average combine, and we will be able to snatch him in the second round.

I think Dodd is going to be a big bust. I see him having a hard time transitioning to the NFL.

[PurpleCity5]

1 hour ago, January J said:

I think Dodd is going to be a big bust. I see him having a hard time transitioning to the NFL.

People talk about Bosa not fitting into a 3-4, I really feel that Dodd can't play OLB here far more than Bosa. 

[Jacquouille]

14 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

People talk about Bosa not fitting into a 3-4, I really feel that Dodd can't play OLB here far more than Bosa. 

My thoughts exactly, he seems to get all his burst from his hands. He would be really slow starting from a stand up position. I widely prefer Fackrell, Ochi or Schobert, fast guys with some nice moves that we can get later in the draft.

[gabefergy]

21 hours ago, ALPHA said:

That only happens if he wins with his initial move, if he gets stuffed he's out of the play. When he was asked to sit and control gaps against Bama he got pounded.

Chasing down plays in which he is not involved has literally nothing to do with his initial move. It's 100% effort and hustle. None of the points you are making have anything to do with effort.

[ellicottraven]

After watching the SB the importance of 2 positions screamed loudest. Pass Rusher and OL. The lack of protection from the Panthers O-line perhaps contributed to the Broncos demonic pass rush last night. So, with that in mind, I am very bullish on getting the best pass rusher in the draft available to us at #6. Who that is I'm not sure. Could it be Noah Spence? I say why not because he has an opportunity to be groomed by 2 pass rush stalwarts in Suggs and Doom. What do you guys think? I know some may say Noah at 6 is too high, but would you like to chance losing a prospect like him or somebody else that can be say the next Von Miller type talent.

Edited February 8, 2016 by ellicottraven

[JoeyFlex5]

10 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

After watching the SB the importance of 2 positions screamed loudest. Pass Rusher and OL. The lack of protection from the Panthers O-line perhaps contributed to the Broncos demonic pass rush last night. So, with that in mind, I am very bullish on getting the best pass rusher in the draft available to us at #6. Who that is I'm not sure. Could it be Noah Spence? I say why not because he has an opportunity to be groomed by 2 pass rush stalwarts in Suggs and Doom. What do you guys think? I know some may say Noah at 6 is too high, but would you like to chance losing a prospect like him or somebody else that can be say the next Von Miller type talent.

tough call man, it really is. noah spence could be a von miller caliber pass rusher, but he could also be another bruce irvin type who can only come in on 3rd downs. i wish we would just start making the transition to a 4-3 so we could get guys like bosa and lawson and not have to worry about "how they fit"

[ellicottraven]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

tough call man, it really is. noah spence could be a von miller caliber pass rusher, but he could also be another bruce irvin type who can only come in on 3rd downs. i wish we would just start making the transition to a 4-3 so we could get guys like bosa and lawson and not have to worry about "how they fit"

I hear you. It would be awesome too because we have an up and coming MLB going into his 3rd year. But, I doubt it would be likely for us to change our defense because we still have Dean Pees  as our DC.

[ALPHA]

3 hours ago, gabefergy said:

Chasing down plays in which he is not involved has literally nothing to do with his initial move. It's 100% effort and hustle. None of the points you are making have anything to do with effort.

Hustle to me is giving second effort after your initial move is stuffed.

[Edgar]

At this point,I'd say Spence needs to be our pick. The more I watch this guy, the more I'm convinced about him. I think he has tremendous I.Q. almost always wins the edge. A super talent who will explode at the next level

doesnt always finish(can be coached up) but almost always wins. I prefer hiim to Bosa for us.

 

watched a goal line play vs. Kentucky where he beats a double team and makes the stop. Really impressed with him. You do see him occasionally drop in coverage particularly at OHIO.

[sflegend89]

What do you guys think of Noah Spence?

Quick recap on him:

- Under the radar blue chip prospect

- Compares physically to Von Miller and Khalil Mack

- Kicked out of OSU for multiple failed drug tests for ecstacy

-  Shined big time at the Senior Bowl

- Has been taking voluntary drug tests at Eastern Kentucky and hasn't tested positive since leaving OSU

- Seems like an otherwise intelligent kid but comes with the caveat of a history of substance abuse and lack of self control

 

I think he's going to be a star at the next level. It's just going to come down to who has the cajones to take him in the 1st round. Unfortunately I don't think he's going to be in play for us at #6, the stakes are just way too high for us to pick him there when there are safer picks like Stanley or Treadwell. It will probably be at our expense as he goes on to become a dominant edge rusher and we look back thinking what could've been. 

[GrimCoconut]

Just now, sflegend89 said:

What do you guys think of Noah Spence?

Quick recap on him:

- Under the radar blue chip prospect

- Compares physically to Von Miller and Khalil Mack

- Kicked out of OSU for multiple failed drug tests for ecstacy

-  Shined big time at the Senior Bowl

- Has been taking voluntary drug tests at Eastern Kentucky and hasn't tested positive since leaving OSU

- Seems like an otherwise intelligent kid but comes with the caveat of a history of substance abuse and lack of self control

 

I think he's going to be a star at the next level. It's just going to come down to who has the cajones to take him in the 1st round. Unfortunately I don't think he's going to be in play for us at #6, the stakes are just way too high for us to pick him there when there are safer picks like Stanley or Treadwell. It will probably be at our expense as he goes on to become a dominant edge rusher and we look back thinking what could've been. 

I really like Noah Spence a lot. I think that's well documented around here. I'm not sure if I buy the hype that he'll be a high first round pick or even a mid 1st round pick. I have no idea where he goes. He could go top-10 or he could go in the early 2nd. I think he's got top-10 talent FWIW, though. I'm not sure if he compares to Miller or Mack. I don't know how I feel about that comparison.

[sflegend89]

22 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I really like Noah Spence a lot. I think that's well documented around here. I'm not sure if I buy the hype that he'll be a high first round pick or even a mid 1st round pick. I have no idea where he goes. He could go top-10 or he could go in the early 2nd. I think he's got top-10 talent FWIW, though. I'm not sure if he compares to Miller or Mack. I don't know how I feel about that comparison.

I put compares physically to Von Miller and Mack (6'3, 250 lbs). I agree that they don't necessarily play similarly. I think Miller and Mack both have a good bull rush and speed rush, they can do both. Spence is a speed rusher through and through. That to me is the reason Miller/Mack were top 3 talents (Mack was just in a stacked class)  and Spence is more of a top 10 talent (albeit in a weaker class).

If Spence takes a tumble and is still on the board late in the 1st I would trade up for him in a heartbeat. Could happen if he doesn't interview well at the combine as I've read he didn't interview very well at the Senior Bowl.

Edited February 8, 2016 by sflegend89

[GrimCoconut]

16 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

I put compares physically to Von Miller and Mack (6'3, 250 lbs). I agree that they don't necessarily play similarly. I think Miller and Mack both have a good bull rush and speed rush, they can do both. Spence is a speed rusher through and through. That to me is the reason Miller/Mack were top 3 talents (Mack was just in a stacked class)  and Spence is more of a top 10 talent (albeit in a weaker class).

If Spence takes a tumble and is still on the board late in the 1st I would trade up for him in a heartbeat. Could happen if he doesn't interview well at the combine as I've read he didn't interview very well at the Senior Bowl.

He may compare physically but that's still to be seen. I need to see his combine numbers first. A lot of players are 6-3 & 250.

[Winchester]

On 2/7/2016 at 11:06 AM, gabefergy said:

He's really good. I could see it happening

I would take Rankins top10 before buckner

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

He may compare physically but that's still to be seen. I need to see his combine numbers first. A lot of players are 6-3 & 250.

I agree combine will tell the tale. In my opinion he is stronger than most seem to think. It is evident in the way scrapes by and under blockers with authority and knocks'em off balance. It takes power to do so against a blocker that weights over 300 LBs. Spence will go top10!! Best speed rusher in the draft says so.

[gabefergy]

2 hours ago, Winchester said:

I would take Rankins top10 before buckner

Scheme fit is tough for Rankins as a DE. He lacks a lot of size and length needed to 2-gap in our defense. He'd essentially have to play the same role as Jernigan, and well we already have a Jernigan.

Buckner is a much better fit, and he has some pass-rushing ability as well lined up on the inside.

[gabefergy]

4 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I really like Noah Spence a lot. I think that's well documented around here. I'm not sure if I buy the hype that he'll be a high first round pick or even a mid 1st round pick. I have no idea where he goes. He could go top-10 or he could go in the early 2nd. I think he's got top-10 talent FWIW, though. I'm not sure if he compares to Miller or Mack. I don't know how I feel about that comparison.

Agreed. I don't think Spence is the kind of elite athlete that Miller and Mack are, but he could prove me wrong at the combine...

[gabefergy]

5 hours ago, ALPHA said:

Hustle to me is giving second effort after your initial move is stuffed.

I would say you are confusing hustle with motor and/or relentlessness, but that could be getting into semantics. I don't see a lack of effort from Bob, I think it's a lack of a plan of attack. He hasn't developed good counters in his pass-rush arsenal. That to me is technique. I think you can say pretty much every interior DL lacks effort at times when they get stoned on their initial move. 

[GrimCoconut]

55 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

Agreed. I don't think Spence is the kind of elite athlete that Miller and Mack are, but he could prove me wrong at the combine...

Yeah, he's a case where I think the combine will really shape my opinion on him. I would take him at 6 I think even if his interviews weren't the best; however, his combine is a really important part of it for me. I have questions regarding his abilities against the run and in coverage where good numbers here would really make me think he can do it as a pro. Granted, the head is where you wonder with him, but his talent as a pass rusher isn't in question for me. If he posts strong numbers, I'd probably put him at 6 with little question, possibly over other guys I have there now. 

I really think if he never got dropped by B1G then he'd be a top-10 guy. 

[gabefergy]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah, he's a case where I think the combine will really shape my opinion on him. I would take him at 6 I think even if his interviews weren't the best; however, his combine is a really important part of it for me. I have questions regarding his abilities against the run and in coverage where good numbers here would really make me think he can do it as a pro. Granted, the head is where you wonder with him, but his talent as a pass rusher isn't in question for me. If he posts strong numbers, I'd probably put him at 6 with little question, possibly over other guys I have there now. 

I really think if he never got dropped by B1G then he'd be a top-10 guy. 

Agreed on all accounts. The real question is going to be how he does in interviews/workouts and if teams are willing to take a risk on him. 

[ALPHA]

9 hours ago, gabefergy said:

I would say you are confusing hustle with motor and/or relentlessness, but that could be getting into semantics. I don't see a lack of effort from Bob, I think it's a lack of a plan of attack. He hasn't developed good counters in his pass-rush arsenal. That to me is technique. I think you can say pretty much every interior DL lacks effort at times when they get stoned on their initial move. 

Im not confused we have a difference in opinion. I think we're getting sidetracked anyway who do you compare him to? he reminds me more of Rashede Hageman than Aaron Donald. Hes too haphazard and out of control to play inside, with that said I think if we drafted him with the intention of moving him around he could be a monster.

Edited February 9, 2016 by ALPHA

[ngatainmyhouse]

Red flags aside... who is the better prospect Buckner or Spence?

[Jaybirds]

4 minutes ago, ngatainmyhouse said:

Red flags aside... who is the better prospect Buckner or Spence?

Prospect as in potential?  I think it has to be Buckner.  Spence is a little more proven at the job we'd ask him to do.  And the different position does matter (does Canty need replaced sooner than Dumerville?) a little.  But as far as what could be, I'd vote Buckner. 

[gabefergy]

6 hours ago, ALPHA said:

Im not confused we have a difference in opinion. I think we're getting sidetracked anyway who do you compare him to? he reminds me more of Rashede Hageman than Aaron Donald. Hes too haphazard and out of control to play inside, with that said I think if we drafted him with the intention of moving him around he could be a monster.

Okay, we have a difference of opinion in how to gauge effort. That's fine. He's about 1000x more athletic than Hageman. He's more athletic and has better size than Donald, but he isn't as refined as Donald either. I don't really have a great comp for him, Sheldon Richardson is probably the closest I can think of in terms of explosive movement skills.

[jazz1988]

On 2/6/2016 at 11:49 AM, allblackraven said:

No way he can play end at just over 220 lbs. He's undersized even for OLB.

According to his measurements at the senior bowl he was  235 pounds  so it seems like he's already on the mission to add more weight to his frame. The guy also has 35 inch arms so it be interesting to see how he preforms at the combine.