[News] Eisenberg: Ravens Need More Homegrown Pro Bowlers

[BR News]

The homegrown Pro Bowl pace has slowed, and drafting one or two would help a turnaround next season.

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[Winchester]

Just cuz a player starts does not mean he is an impact player. Jensen is serviceable and ordinary. Juice while popular is a fullback. Wagner is the best pick of 2013. Williams while above average is a run stuffer. Big run stuffers consistently come after round1. Finding one is definitely good but nothing to write home. Wagner while not being left tackle elite athleticism is a very strong and player with underrated athleticism and he is working hard for better athleticism and flexibility. And can play right tackle at an elite level. He was a very good find in mid rounds.

[Xmadraven]

We're drafting well the players just don't go to the pro-bowl and we can't afford them. See Pernell McPhee a top 15 edge rusher we couldn't afford to keep. Torrey smith (Though we really don't need him) is the best reciever ozzie drafted. Neither made a pro bowl, Paul Kruger was mostly a bust except for the superbowl run where he put a lot of pressure on the QB to help us get there. The talents there it's just not on the field right now because it's on IR. We do need a homerun draft class so analysts will hush, Also to help the overall quality of the roster.

Right now we probaly won't be able to afford Osemele our best young lineman because of the salary cap restraints. (No it's not joe flacco's cap number cripping us) You want a franchise QB? it's expensive to have one nowadays. Joe should restructure so we can build a team around him and he gets long term security into his mid to lates 30s. he doesn't have to restructure, What are we gonna do...Cut him? AHHAHAHAHAHA yeah no. We have no leverage other than to say "Hey joe look what happened when we can't afford good depth cause ur hogging all the cap space so take one for the team or you'll get crappy protection and maybe re-tear that knee" The NFL is a rough landscape people, It's also one of the most unpredictable sports. We don't need more probowlers we need more wins.

[Xmadraven]

Just cuz a player starts does not mean he is an impact player. Jensen is serviceable and ordinary. Juice while popular is a fullback. Wagner is the best pick of 2013. Williams while above average is a run stuffer. Big run stuffers consistently come after round1. Finding one is definitely good but nothing to write home. Wagner while not being left tackle elite athleticism is a very strong and player with underrated athleticism and he is working hard for better athleticism and flexibility. And can play right tackle at an elite level. He was a very good find in mid rounds.

 

I'd disagree with wagner being the better player/best 2013 pick. He had a DAMN GOOD 2014 campaign and I'd say he was the best RT in the league (he was according to PFF) but he's dropped off his place this year by a lot. 

[Winchester]

He is not completely back from injury. He is getting better with every game.

[Winchester]

We're drafting well the players just don't go to the pro-bowl and we can't afford them. See Pernell McPhee a top 15 edge rusher we couldn't afford to keep. Torrey smith (Though we really don't need him) is the best reciever ozzie drafted. Neither made a pro bowl, Paul Kruger was mostly a bust except for the superbowl run where he put a lot of pressure on the QB to help us get there. The talents there it's just not on the field right now because it's on IR. We do need a homerun draft class so analysts will hush, Also to help the overall quality of the roster.

Right now we probaly won't be able to afford Osemele our best young lineman because of the salary cap restraints. (No it's not joe flacco's cap number cripping us) You want a franchise QB? it's expensive to have one nowadays. Joe should restructure so we can build a team around him and he gets long term security into his mid to lates 30s. he doesn't have to restructure, What are we gonna do...Cut him? AHHAHAHAHAHA yeah no. We have no leverage other than to say "Hey joe look what happened when we can't afford good depth cause ur hogging all the cap space so take one for the team or you'll get crappy protection and maybe re-tear that knee" The NFL is a rough landscape people, It's also one of the most unpredictable sports. We don't need more probowlers we need more wins.

Would be a huge mistake to let KO walk!!

[ellicottraven]

This article makes a lot of sense to me. There is a huge talent deficit in the AFC North and it is sad that we are near the bottom of that chart. I would like to attribute it to several years of picking at the bottom of the first round, but then I would be making excuses for the front office and John Harbaugh (far more involved in the draft process).

My sense is that we are not picking for pure talent anymore at least in the last 7 yrs or so, but picking more based on how young draft picks may contribute to special teams as a qualifier. We need to get back to our old ways of picking the most talented player on the board, special teams be damned. We can always pick the most competent special teamers of the 53 man roster and still be competent. We need pro bowl caliber players like we've had in years past.

Our QB has never made the pro bowl either but he has deserved to. Again as much as we would like to play down the lack of pro bowlers on the team, in reality that is a direct reflection of talent on the team! So let us draft some pro bowl caliber talent in this draft even if it means we lose the next 2 games... I'm not advocating losing, but only saying there is a gold lining if we lost both.

Edited December 26, 2015 by ellicottraven

[jravens13]

FACT. This falls on Ozzie and Coaching.

[sami]

Flacco might have been a pro bowler if we didn't have two hall of famers in the same conference (Brady and Manning)plus we're more of a running team (well we WERE) so he doesn't have the stats required. I think our problem is not the players we draft but the schemes we play. We don't have an attack attitude like we did in our earlier years so out players while good don't stand out and grab attention like others on higher profile teams.

[Ravensfansince03]

You can say that again.

[Ravensfansince03]

We're drafting well the players just don't go to the pro-bowl and we can't afford them. See Pernell McPhee a top 15 edge rusher we couldn't afford to keep. Torrey smith (Though we really don't need him) is the best reciever ozzie drafted. Neither made a pro bowl, Paul Kruger was mostly a bust except for the superbowl run where he put a lot of pressure on the QB to help us get there. The talents there it's just not on the field right now because it's on IR. We do need a homerun draft class so analysts will hush, Also to help the overall quality of the roster. Right now we probaly won't be able to afford Osemele our best young lineman because of the salary cap restraints. (No it's not joe flacco's cap number cripping us) You want a franchise QB? it's expensive to have one nowadays. Joe should restructure so we can build a team around him and he gets long term security into his mid to lates 30s. he doesn't have to restructure, What are we gonna do...Cut him? AHHAHAHAHAHA yeah no. We have no leverage other than to say "Hey joe look what happened when we can't afford good depth cause ur hogging all the cap space so take one for the team or you'll get crappy protection and maybe re-tear that knee" The NFL is a rough landscape people, It's also one of the most unpredictable sports. We don't need more probowlers we need more wins.

 

Well, a couple points

• The point is, we had those players when it mattered the most. Ex, McPhee, we had him grow up at the perfect time
• In the beginning you mentioned players that we don't have anymore, and none of our players now on defense (except maybe Brent Urban) have the natural skills/talents to be as dangerous as Kruger/Mcphee was.
• We basically let players walk who we really didn't have a replacement for.
• Also remember, Ray Lewis was the nucleus that kept every player on our defense on top notch.

And yes, many people who are not Ravens fans have even said that Flacco's contract is taking up too much space. Although it is Monroe that is taking up the majority of cap space this season SMH

[BmoreB]

I'd like to see a pass rusher as well. In the form of Joey Bosa preferably.

[The Greek]

front office has their work cut out for them. top 5 pick in every rd should make for some solid draft choices if they do their homework and draft for need instead of bpa like they do 90% of the time. olb with pass rushing skills, cb, safety unless elam,webb and kendrick lewis improve but it is a risk to think they will. what happens with osemele will play a big factor in draft strategy as monroes health is always a question nowadays. we shall see what happens and i also agree that the coaching staff for certain position groups must be upgraded (secondary coaches, o-line, dc) as they do not bring out the best in the players they coach. going to be exciting to see how the 2016 ravens will be put together. hopefully the right decisions are made and players step up as they should.

Edited December 26, 2015 by The Greek

[verified]

ozzie has lost his touch and is terrible at drafting now, I see more players becoming bust then stars, and the teams record shows that

[BallSoHard808]

Last time I checked the pro bowl is a popularity contest, there are some people that are going that shouldn't be going. Our players just aren't flashy like the other teams but they do get the work done.

[The Greek]

harbs needs to really evaluate his coaching staff and make the necessary upgrades. secondary and o-line continue to be inconsistent and the defense as a whole has no fire

[Xmadraven]

He is not completely back from injury. He is getting better with every game.

 

Fair enough that's what I thought was wrong with him anyway.

 

Would be a huge mistake to let KO walk!!

 

It would but we can't afford him.

 

Well, a couple points

• The point is, we had those players when it mattered the most. Ex, McPhee, we had him grow up at the perfect time
• In the beginning you mentioned players that we don't have anymore, and none of our players now on defense (except maybe Brent Urban) have the natural skills/talents to be as dangerous as Kruger/Mcphee was.
• We basically let players walk who we really didn't have a replacement for.
• Also remember, Ray Lewis was the nucleus that kept every player on our defense on top notch.

And yes, many people who are not Ravens fans have even said that Flacco's contract is taking up too much space. Although it is Monroe that is taking up the majority of cap space this season SMH

 

Joe flacco has a 28 mil Cap hit, Monroe has like a 9 mil cap hit. Ozzie's goal is to replace those players in FA/during the draft.

 

You put duct tape on a team with a crap salary cap and not every draft pick being a pro-bowler and hope it works out.

 

6/8 years it has worked out. 2013 we were one game away from the playoffs so you could say 7/8. 

 

This is the first year duct tape didn't work because the duct tape got set on fire. We weren't winning at the beginning of the year but that's more or less on luck/ Coaching/ not making plays. Having created like 6 turnovers doesn't help either.

 

This isn't a talent deficent problem it's fixing the minor things that caved in the whole team. it was the perfect "everything could go wrong and did go wrong" 

[Xmadraven]

ozzie has lost his touch and is terrible at drafting now, I see more players becoming bust then stars, and the teams record shows that

 

2011: Jimmy smith + Torrey smith+ Pernell McPhee+ Tyrod Taylor the rest sucked.= Pretty good draft class.

 

2012:Upshaw+ Osemele+ Tyson= Not great but 2 solid starters and a depth guy.

 

2013: Williams+ Wagner+ Juicecheck+ Ryan jensen+ Lewis moore= This draft class produced 3 solid starters with potential for more.

 

2014: C.J mosley + Timmy Jernigan + Crockett gilmore + John Urschel+ Brent Urban= 3 starters with the potential for a lot more. 

 

2015: We'll see but it looks at least as good as 2012. Ok so every draft has produced two starters at least is that amazing? No that's the goal. 2 starters per draft is the goal for every team. We're not drafting poorly it's just we can't afford to keep the guys who play well/ Injuries. Has ozzie had misses? oh hell yeah. But no one's eprfect.

[Winchester]

I'd disagree with wagner being the better player/best 2013 pick. He had a DAMN GOOD 2014 campaign and I'd say he was the best RT in the league (he was according to PFF) but he's dropped off his place this year by a lot.

Who was a better pick than Wagner in 2013?? Williams?? When free agency comes let's see who gets payed more!! Juice?? As popular as he is,juice is a fullback and impact is not as great as different positions. As much as homers(not directed at you) hate hearing that bout any player that is popular. Of course Williams is a very good player and pick. But run stuffers are consistently are drafted after round1. Terrance Knighton considered one of the best did not get rich on the open market. If Wagner returns even close to his form he is the best draft pick of that draft in my opinion. Now if Williams puts more fire on the QB and gets close to double digits then Wagner would have to reach his 2014 play level to be considered the best of that draft. If ravens could land Tunsil then find a legit receiver in round2 as well as Maxx follow through with his offseason plan to get stronger and more explosive then the ravens would have the most efficient and best offense in the league. And there could be no talk of ravens not drafting pro bowl or top shelf talent. With his power,intelligence and hard work ethic Urschel is unusually strong and nasty for the center position once he adjusts. Not many centers get movement off the ball like Urschel!! And will get pro bowl consideration.

[ibrahim9416]

I say we get two first round picks and take a WR and CB. The team will be set for next year if we do that. Additionally, if we take Alshon Jeffery, we'll be unstoppable. With all of the players returning and the above happenening, we will win the Superbowl...

[Winchester]

Fair enough that's what I thought was wrong with him anyway.

 

 

It would but we can't afford him.

 

 

Joe flacco has a 28 mil Cap hit, Monroe has like a 9 mil cap hit. Ozzie's goal is to replace those players in FA/during the draft.

 

You put duct tape on a team with a crap salary cap and not every draft pick being a pro-bowler and hope it works out.

 

6/8 years it has worked out. 2013 we were one game away from the playoffs so you could say 7/8. 

 

This is the first year duct tape didn't work because the duct tape got set on fire. We weren't winning at the beginning of the year but that's more or less on luck/ Coaching/ not making plays. Having created like 6 turnovers doesn't help either.

 

This isn't a talent deficent problem it's fixing the minor things that caved in the whole team. it was the perfect "everything could go wrong and did go wrong"

It is a talent deficient in some areas. And it is old in other areas. Suggs is not going to be an impact player. Dumervil is not what he was when signed and Daryl Smith is a liability. Big contracts are being payed to cornerbacks yet every fan is crying out Hargreaves. Free safety us a liability as well as receiver. But everybody thinks SS is returning to play at pro bowl level. When fans are begging back a 37 yr old receiver coming off Achilles injury to play then there is an issue with talent at receiver. There is no decent left tackle. Well he is a free agent. The team was 1-4 before losing Joe Cool,SS and Forsett. Fans talking playoffs coming off the Cleveland loss were in fairy tale land. The ravens do have some things going for the team. If KO is kept and a left tackle and legit receiver is drafted the offense will be great. However a cornerback (Hargreaves is this years Jalen Strong popular pick) is not making the defense dominant again. The defense needs a lot to be dominant again. ELITE Edge rusher, cornerbacks, free safety, complete ilb. Problem is players at those positions recently been drafted with early picks and are busts(Elam,Brown),or own big contracts and aging,injured and underperforming(Jimmy,Webb,Monroe,Suggs,Daryl Smith).

[Winchester]

2011: Jimmy smith + Torrey smith+ Pernell McPhee+ Tyrod Taylor the rest sucked.= Pretty good draft class.

 

2012:Upshaw+ Osemele+ Tyson= Not great but 2 solid starters and a depth guy.

 

2013: Williams+ Wagner+ Juicecheck+ Ryan jensen+ Lewis moore= This draft class produced 3 solid starters with potential for more.

 

2014: C.J mosley + Timmy Jernigan + Crockett gilmore + John Urschel+ Brent Urban= 3 starters with the potential for a lot more. 

 

2015: We'll see but it looks at least as good as 2012. Ok so every draft has produced two starters at least is that amazing? No that's the goal. 2 starters per draft is the goal for every team. We're not drafting poorly it's just we can't afford to keep the guys who play well/ Injuries. Has ozzie had misses? oh hell yeah. But no one's eprfect.

Starters do not mean success. How many teams would Upshaw start for?? He is below average. How many of those players are even near pro bowl caliber?? Osemele and Mosley although Mosley really has to establish himself again. Very bad year!! Roasted in coverage!! And Jernigan could take next step to pro bowl consideration but he needs to show it.

[rmcjacket23]

Why do we care about having guys elected to a popularity contest where half the guys don't show up again?

[JamesA119]

Our biggest problem on the defense is not so much the players as it is the philosophy. With Dean Pees in charge, no player looks good especially in the secondary. In the last 2 seasons there easily have been 20 players that have seen action in the secondary. Only Will Hill has looked good.

[Winchester]

Why do we care about having guys elected to a popularity contest where half the guys don't show up again?

Because, it is not about actually being in the probowl. It is about being talked about,recognized and respected as one of the better players at the position. A player need not actually make it, but have many of his peers,media and coaches bring up how he should of made the pro bowl or will the following year!! It is called being pro bowl caliber. Sure at times it is a popularity contest. But you know you would be proud if 5 players made it and several more were considered snubs by fans,media and peers from other cities. And to act as if it is totally irrelevant and pointless sounds bitter and jealous. And like I said it is not just about being voted to the pro bowl, it is about being respected by peers,all fans everywhere and media as pro bowl material!! To say that acknowledgement is totally irrelevant and means nothing is not true. Just like a girl being voted prom queen. Even if a girl is not the winner it is a privilege to be considered prom queen caliber pretty when many peers say a couple different girls could of won or should of won. It is an honor and means she is right there with them prom queen in all her good qualities like beautiful, sweet,charismatic,friendly!! When a player is not in the pro bowl it is as cool for everybody to acknowledge he could or should of been voted. And plays as good or is on similar level to the pro bowlers or the best at his particular position. To say it is irrelevant or meaningless sounds like the bitter rude girls who says the prom queen contest is stupid and meaningless.

[callahan09]

Flacco could have been a Pro Bowler twice as a reserve, but elected not to go. One of those went to Matt Cassel and the other to Andy Dalton. Reserves don't get credit for being Pro Bowlers unless they actually go to Hawaii for the game.

[Xmadraven]

Who was a better pick than Wagner in 2013?? Williams?? When free agency comes let's see who gets payed more!! Juice?? As popular as he is,juice is a fullback and impact is not as great as different positions. As much as homers(not directed at you) hate hearing that bout any player that is popular. Of course Williams is a very good player and pick. But run stuffers are consistently are drafted after round1. Terrance Knighton considered one of the best did not get rich on the open market. If Wagner returns even close to his form he is the best draft pick of that draft in my opinion. Now if Williams puts more fire on the QB and gets close to double digits then Wagner would have to reach his 2014 play level to be considered the best of that draft. If ravens could land Tunsil then find a legit receiver in round2 as well as Maxx follow through with his offseason plan to get stronger and more explosive then the ravens would have the most efficient and best offense in the league. And there could be no talk of ravens not drafting pro bowl or top shelf talent. With his power,intelligence and hard work ethic Urschel is unusually strong and nasty for the center position once he adjusts. Not many centers get movement off the ball like Urschel!! And will get pro bowl consideration.

 

Yeah obviously juicecheck is the least valuable of the 2013 class. He's a good FB but he's replaceable as hell. 

 

Ricky Wagner is definitley one of the top picks of the 2013 draft but RTs grow on trees. You can find cheap solid RTs in FA and adress the position later in the draft and get studs (See ricky wagner) Brandon Williams is a top 3 Run stuffer in the league who puts a solid amount of pressure on QBs for a run stuffer. 

[Grapple Raven]

It isn't about the actual Pro Bowl game per say, as a lot of people disparage it and don't vote because of that.  I feel that is a little short sighted because it is more about the national recognition the players get by being selected by the fans, coaches and their peers.   To be recognized as one of the best at your position, especially on a broader national stage exposes them to a wider audience than their immediate home fan base and local media.  That national recognition from a Pro Bowl selection helps to build a players resume, garners them more exposure to national media, and can propel these players for future honors and selections like DPOY, ROY, HOF, etc.   The players consider this as one of the honors of their profession and for good reason. 

 

Just a thought for perspective, as fans I wish we would take voting for Pro Bowl nominations a little more seriously by helping our players get more national exposure which would help our players solidify and build their resume's for future honors like the HOF. As a pool of national media members ARE the ones that vote for HOF'ers, in the long run, it really does matter. The Pro Bowl has a lot more meaning and future ramifications to players careers and legacies than just playing in an all star game! 

 

Often when former players receive a nod to the Pro Bowl it can increase the value of a player we lost and in so often help with increasing the value of a comp pick as well. 

 

Just something to ponder the next time we get to vote.

[Xmadraven]

Because, it is not about actually being in the probowl. It is about being talked about,recognized and respected as one of the better players at the position. A player need not actually make it, but have many of his peers,media and coaches bring up how he should of made the pro bowl or will the following year!! It is called being pro bowl caliber. Sure at times it is a popularity contest. But you know you would be proud if 5 players made it and several more were considered snubs by fans,media and peers from other cities. And to act as if it is totally irrelevant and pointless sounds bitter and jealous. And like I said it is not just about being voted to the pro bowl, it is about being respected by peers,all fans everywhere and media as pro bowl material!! To say that acknowledgement is totally irrelevant and means nothing is not true. Just like a girl being voted prom queen. Even if a girl is not the winner it is a privilege to be considered prom queen caliber pretty when many peers say a couple different girls could of won or should of won. It is an honor and means she is right there with them prom queen in all her good qualities like beautiful, sweet,charismatic,friendly!! When a player is not in the pro bowl it is as cool for everybody to acknowledge he could or should of been voted. And plays as good or is on similar level to the pro bowlers or the best at his particular position. To say it is irrelevant or meaningless sounds like the bitter rude girls who says the prom queen contest is stupid and meaningless.

Cause it is stupid and meaningless. Not every player deserves to go to the pro bowl (Matt cassel for example) it's a popularity contest for who has the best name, Calvin Johnson went over Allen robinson. (Who had a better year in my opinion and a few others) Calvin Went because he's calvin. ONE vikings defensive player went to the pro bowl. (Not Harrison Smith, Anthony Barr, Or Linval Joeseph their 3 best players) If the pro bowl is a high school prom queen contest let's say for comparsion sake what would happen if we took the pro bowl away from the NFL. What happens does football suffer enough where people quit watching football because of it? No. Same thing with the prom, Sure it's kinda sucky to lose it but it doesn't matter. In 10 years you think life matters because of what happened at the high school prom? nope. Also most prom queens aren't the sweet little girls, As most people who went to high school will tell you (With some exceptions of course) Saying it sucks because "Im bitter and jealous" is kinda redundant. Who wouldn't wanna be a ravens pro bowl player? I think at least 80% of ravens fans would say they'd love to have been one. You're respected by peers and fans whether you go to the pro bowl or not either way so...(Unless you've had some shady off the fiels stuff probaly)

[Xmadraven]

It isn't about the actual Pro Bowl game per say, as a lot of people disparage it and don't vote because of that.  I feel that is a little short sighted because it is more about the national recognition the players get by being selected by the fans, coaches and their peers.   To be recognized as one of the best at your position, especially on a broader national stage exposes them to a wider audience than their immediate home fan base and local media.  That national recognition from a Pro Bowl selection helps to build a players resume, garners them more exposure to national media, and can propel these players for future honors and selections like DPOY, ROY, HOF, etc.   The players consider this as one of the honors of their profession and for good reason. 

 

Just a thought for perspective, as fans I wish we would take voting for Pro Bowl nominations a little more seriously by helping our players get more national exposure which would help our players solidify and build their resume's for future honors like the HOF. As a pool of national media members ARE the ones that vote for HOF'ers, in the long run, it really does matter. The Pro Bowl has a lot more meaning and future ramifications to players careers and legacies than just playing in an all star game! 

 

Often when former players receive a nod to the Pro Bowl it can increase the value of a player we lost and in so often help with increasing the value of a comp pick as well. 

 

Just something to ponder the next time we get to vote.

Also fan voting is irrelevant since we're 1/3 of the vote. Coaches and players are the other 2/3 of the vote so they decide who goes.