New Defense Next Year

[RavensFanMania]

Gonna have to double check now. Lol. But hey thats what a forum is for. Pff should have those stats. Brb

Edit: nope just checked. The 99 Rams were 4th in D on ppg. Hmmmm a top 5 D along with that offense that everyone talks about. Actually checked the whole era of the "Greatest show on turf" their D never ranked worse than 12th.

Edit 2: Again incorrect. The 1979 and 80 seasons of the Chargers yoire talking aboit they were 2nd in ppg on D and 3rd.

seriously, wow I was way off.  I do remember them being Really bad on D.  The offense was awesome and they gave up a ton of yards, but obviously didn't allow them in the end zone.  You're checking ppg and that is the way a D should be ranked, but the league measures them on ypg.  Would you mind checking to see what they were ranked in ypg.  I followed the Chargers quite a bit.  They weren't my favorite team, but I loved the Coryell/Gibbs system and Dan Fouts.

 

While your at it, could you also check the 98 or 99 rams team as well by ypg.

Edited December 24, 2015 by RavensFanMania

[terrynjulia03]

seriously, wow I was way off.  I do remember them being Really bad on D.  The offense was awesome and they gave up a ton of yards, but obviously didn't allow them in the end zone.  You're checking ppg and that is the way a D should be ranked, but the league measures them on ypg.  Would you mind checking to see what they were ranked in ypg.  I followed the Chargers quite a bit.  They weren't my favorite team, but I loved the Coryell/Gibbs system and Dan Fouts.

 

While your at it, could you also check the 98 or 99 rams team as well by ypg.

Lemme see if I can find it. I pulled those stats from Pro Football Reference just because they keep every silly stat going back to the start of the NFL lol. And they rank D on ppg. Ill see if nfl.com goes back that far as they do ypg.

[terrynjulia03]

The 1980 Chargers were ranked 8th in ypg, per nfl.com, 1979 they were 24th in ypg. Kinda a odd change. 24th in ypg and 3rd in ppg, tightened up the ypg to 8th and bumped them 1 slot to 2nd in ppg.

The 99 Rams were 26th in ypg, sigh the Ravens 30th.

Edit: BUT while being 26th and 30th the Rams were 4th in ppg and the Ravens 6th. Very different times back than for sure.

But really I could care less how many yards a D gives up. Im worried about points, 3rd down % and Turnovers. In that order. Who cares about yards? They dont win the games. Points do. Turnovers do.

Edited December 24, 2015 by terrynjulia03

[RavensFanMania]

The 1980 Chargers were ranked 8th in ypg, per nfl.com, 1979 they were 24th in ypg. Kinda a odd change. 24th in ypg and 3rd in ppg, tightened up the ypg to 8th and bumped them 1 slot to 2nd in ppg.

The 99 Rams were 26th in ypg, sigh the Ravens 30th.

Edit: BUT while being 26th and 30th the Rams were 4th in ppg and the Ravens 6th. Very different times back than for sure.

But really I could care less how many yards a D gives up. Im worried about points, 3rd down % and Turnovers. In that order. Who cares about yards? They dont win the games. Points do. Turnovers do.

Not in 1980, I'm thinking 1982 or 83.  The year they played Miami (one of the best games of all time) and won in overtime then lost in a freezing game to Ken Anderson and the Bengals. 

 

I agree, ypg is only how the nfl ranks the D.  It doesn't matter as much as ppg.  We are on total agreement there.  Anyway, thanks for double checking.  No need to check 82 or 83 Chargers.  It's probably just as bad as the 99 Rams. 

[DomMcRaven]

I think Pees is toast honestly. I don't see him surviving this off-season unless Harbaugh gives him another chance. The way I look at it, someone is going to get fired, it's sad because I don't wish for anyone to lose their job but when your unit preforms this bad, then you got to clean house. We came into this season with SB aspirations, to see our season turn out like this, you have to think the F.O is disappointed. Not to mention Harbaugh was already steadfast about how he hates losing 4th QTR leads due to defense slipping up. I think someone is gone. 

Hey, when you suck at your job, you're going to get canned. Same goes for you and I. Pees is an awful DC and deserves the boot.

We are in the same division with two high powered offenses in the Steelers and Bengals. If that in itself doesn't give us incentive to change our defense for the better and actually win these divisional games, I don't know what will. Obviously, our offense needs to improve as well in order to keep up with them, but come on now. 

[RaineV1]

If you went a flexible, fast defense then the best option would be to run a one-gap 3-4, and replace one of the ILBs with a linebacker/safety hybrid to cover TEs and RBs. Basically, copy the Cardinals' defense.

[terrynjulia03]

Another tidbit, since you made me look at nfl.com. EVERY team in the top 10 on D in ppg is in the playoffs as of right now. And not a single team in the bottom 10 even has a remote chance. Most have been eliminated already. 1 team has to win out and another team lose out to get in, the cluster that is called the NFC East. Thats it.

But only 5 of the top 10 offenses are in the playoffs right now. Now a couple of those 5 are also in that top 10 category on D. And guess how many have offenses i m the bottom 10 of the league? Yep 3 of them.

3 teams are in the playoffs, if the season ended today. With a top 10D and a bottom 10 O. And the team with the #1 D in the league, and the 28th ranked O. So keep thinking the league is changing to all offense and the Arena league if you want. But the past 2 SB winners( Seattle won IDC what the trophy says, that team won but they decided to let Marsha Brady have another ring, bet they got kickbacks) were based on a monster top 3 D and a top 3 run game. Period. What WE used to be.

[terrynjulia03]

Not in 1980, I'm thinking 1982 or 83.  The year they played Miami (one of the best games of all time) and won in overtime then lost in a freezing game to Ken Anderson and the Bengals. 

 

I agree, ypg is only how the nfl ranks the D.  It doesn't matter as much as ppg.  We are on total agreement there.  Anyway, thanks for double checking.  No need to check 82 or 83 Chargers.  It's probably just as bad as the 99 Rams.

You said Fouts and Gibbs. That was only the 79 and 80 seasons. Lol. Thats what I checked bub. I was born in 79, I obviously dont remember back that far. Lmao. Get on your laptop or tablet or we, and send me a pm as to where to look. But nfl.com is decent. Or even better is ProFootballReference.com. google or yahoo or we your search is it. Wealth of knowledge bro. Ill help, its all good, I hate this internet [profanity deleted] too, but dont know what youre looking for. Ya gotta give me specifics, hell I found fouts and gibbs that were only 79 and 80 by a search. But give me what youre looking for exactly and Ill help look it up. But gotta tell me what ya need.

[terrynjulia03]

If you went a flexible, fast defense then the best option would be to run a one-gap 3-4, and replace one of the ILBs with a linebacker/safety hybrid to cover TEs and RBs. Basically, copy the Cardinals' defense.

Honestly youre correct. We need to bring in the assistants from Minn, Az and KC. They all have poachable ones. And all top 6 Defenses. And say this is what we got, most of them have studied game film on our players anyway, and say what can ya do? Minn runs a base 4-3 under similar to what we run most of the time anyway. BUT maybe someone from Az or KC can say [profanity deleted] Id change this and this and the talent is here for a top 5 gimme a shot while drafting x person and picking up y FA and letting go this or that. Dunno Im all for suggestions. I say interview them all and see whatcha got. We know with Pees theres a disconnect. He cant coach this style. And its not his fault. He just needs to go to a system that runs it, or produces it. Tbh Id rather he move to college and boost up a 3-4 program, because if you look at things, most guys coming out at the top of the boards are from 4-3 style schools.

[PurpleCity5]

The 2000 and 2012 Ravens would disagree, the Seahawks would disagree, the Pats(back when they won SBs and dont say last year as Seattle handed them the win) would disagree, the Giants would disagree, and even ignoring the past and just looking at this year...who are the Dominant teams? Carolina, whats their D ranked? Minn, again #1D, Denver because of D, Arizona again higher ranked D than O, so on and so forth....the abbirition is NE and I bet they get smoked in the WC round at home just like the last time they were in this position, ahem Ravens knocking them out with a damn good D and a running game.

Just look at history. Take the past 5 years of playoff teams. Most had a D ranked higher than their O. Or they were really close to each other. NO team with a top 5 offense and a bottom 5 D has EVER made the postseason past the WC round, as far as I know.

The 2012 Ravens team that won the Superbowl was much more offensive oriented down the line in the postseason. I mean our guy threw 11TDs-0INTs.

 

The Giants defense was surely good in 2007 when they won it but I don't recall it being great when they won it again in 2011. As far as New England goes, they did not have what I would describe to be an elite defense, remember what we did to them at their own home? I think they had a good defense, but I wouldn't call it elite. Their offense was truly great, they nearly have three 1,000 WRs and moved the ball at will.  

 

Arizona also has a punishing offense. I think their offense is actually better than their defense. 

 

Just to clarify, I'm not saying dump the defense, I just had said that if I had the choice, I'd rather have an elite offense/good defense rather than an elite defense/good offense. A good defense won't be at the bottom in every major statistic and will turn it up time-to-time. An elite offense can beat an elite defense, I cannot say with confidence in an good offense can beat an elite defense. 

[PurpleCity5]

The 2000 and 2012 Ravens would disagree, the Seahawks would disagree, the Pats(back when they won SBs and dont say last year as Seattle handed them the win) would disagree, the Giants would disagree, and even ignoring the past and just looking at this year...who are the Dominant teams? Carolina, whats their D ranked? Minn, again #1D, Denver because of D, Arizona again higher ranked D than O, so on and so forth....the abbirition is NE and I bet they get smoked in the WC round at home just like the last time they were in this position, ahem Ravens knocking them out with a damn good D and a running game.

Just look at history. Take the past 5 years of playoff teams. Most had a D ranked higher than their O. Or they were really close to each other. NO team with a top 5 offense and a bottom 5 D has EVER made the postseason past the WC round, as far as I know.

The 2012 Ravens team that won the Superbowl was much more offensive oriented down the line in the postseason. I mean our guy threw 11TDs-0INTs.

 

The Giants defense was surely good in 2007 when they won it but I don't recall it being great when they won it again in 2011. As far as New England goes, they did not have what I would describe to be an elite defense, remember what we did to them at their own home? I think they had a good defense, but I wouldn't call it elite. Their offense was truly great, they nearly have three 1,000 WRs and moved the ball at will.  

 

Arizona also has a punishing offense. I think their offense is actually better than their defense. 

 

Just to clarify, I'm not saying dump the defense, I just had said that if I had the choice, I'd rather have an elite offense/good defense rather than an elite defense/good offense. A good defense won't be at the bottom in every major statistic and will turn it up time-to-time. An elite offense can beat an elite defense, I cannot say with confidence in an good offense can beat an elite defense.

[Winchester]

The 2000 and 2012 Ravens would disagree, the Seahawks would disagree, the Pats(back when they won SBs and dont say last year as Seattle handed them the win) would disagree, the Giants would disagree, and even ignoring the past and just looking at this year...who are the Dominant teams? Carolina, whats their D ranked? Minn, again #1D, Denver because of D, Arizona again higher ranked D than O, so on and so forth....the abbirition is NE and I bet they get smoked in the WC round at home just like the last time they were in this position, ahem Ravens knocking them out with a damn good D and a running game.

Just look at history. Take the past 5 years of playoff teams. Most had a D ranked higher than their O. Or they were really close to each other. NO team with a top 5 offense and a bottom 5 D has EVER made the postseason past the WC round, as far as I know.

Different game in 2000 and the 2012 team won several shootouts on the way. Last years Seahawk defense was torched in the Superbowl. Seattle's defense shined in 2013 against Manning when his arm strength was not what it was at the beginning of the season. The weak arm Manning is showing now actually began later in 2013. Sherman even made a statement that lately manning couldn't seem to throw the ball over 20 yards. And Seattle sat on everything short. Regardless of who is on defense a team will have to win a shootout somewhere. It is how the NFL has it and wants it. Offenses are still in the stone age compared to what could be scored on a weekly basis. It begins with a dominating mauling OLine. Ravens only need the franchise left tackle and a receiver maybe 2 if ravens could pull off a trade for a talented but underperforming receiver like Marqise as well as the franchise left tackle and receiver in early round2. Maxx will be far more explosive next season. Ravens will have TEs that can catch or block very well including a big play receiving TE in Maxx. Running backs that catch well. As well as very good receivers and a dominating OLine.

[Winchester]

The 2012 Ravens team that won the Superbowl was much more offensive oriented down the line in the postseason. I mean our guy threw 11TDs-0INTs. The Giants defense was surely good in 2007 when they won it but I don't recall it being great when they won it again in 2011. As far as New England goes, they did not have what I would describe to be an elite defense, remember what we did to them at their own home? I think they had a good defense, but I wouldn't call it elite. Their offense was truly great, they nearly have three 1,000 WRs and moved the ball at will.

Arizona also has a punishing offense. I think their offense is actually better than their defense.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying dump the defense, I just had said that if I had the choice, I'd rather have an elite offense/good defense rather than an elite defense/good offense. A good defense won't be at the bottom in every major statistic and will turn it up time-to-time. An elite offense can beat an elite defense, I cannot say with confidence in an good offense can beat an elite defense.

Good points!! In 2007 giants took advantage and exposed a very overrated OLine!! Matt Light was their best Olineman. Mankins was a good run blocker and nasty but was overrated in other areas and did not get as much movement off the ball as his reputation suggested. Their right tackle was pathetic. Their center and right guard played very sound fundamental football but were over matched on many one on one situations. Defensive lines will be on their heels against Tunsil Osemele Urschel Yanda Wagner. The ravens OLine is going to be fearsome!! It is going to earn a nickname!! The hogs, The great wall of Dallas and the next anti DLine is yet to be named!! Edited December 25, 2015 by Winchester

[BSHU_Miami]

There is no way peas is safe. you can't be average to below average at your job for four years and expect to get your contract renewed

[RavensFanMania]

You said Fouts and Gibbs. That was only the 79 and 80 seasons. Lol. Thats what I checked bub. I was born in 79, I obviously dont remember back that far. Lmao. Get on your laptop or tablet or we, and send me a pm as to where to look. But nfl.com is decent. Or even better is ProFootballReference.com. google or yahoo or we your search is it. Wealth of knowledge bro. Ill help, its all good, I hate this internet [crap] too, but dont know what youre looking for. Ya gotta give me specifics, hell I found fouts and gibbs that were only 79 and 80 by a search. But give me what youre looking for exactly and Ill help look it up. But gotta tell me what ya need.

That's very true.  Gibbs became the Skins  coach in 1981.  Thanks again

[52liveforever]

Could we not have an equally good rotation in a 4-3? Who would we cut that's actually good? I don't think Brandon Williams, Jernigan, Guy, or Davis are going anywhere. KLM and Urban haven't shown much of anything. All switching to a 4-3 means is finding more linebackers that fit the mold.

All this is moot anyway. This is only talking about alignment. A 4-3 under is the exact same alignment and possibly the exact same personnel as a 3-4 under. It makes no damn difference. What really matters is the gap philosophy and how you use your linebackers. In a 3-4, you don't have to have massive cloggers. You can run a single gap, attacking 3-4. Likewise, a 4-3 doesn't necessarily have to be a penetrating front. You can have cloggers there, like we did in 2000.

With how we run our defense, we're practically running a 5-2, in terms of personnel. We have three down linemen, with Dumervil and Upshaw as the OLBs. Those two are, for all intents and purposes, DEs. If you ask me, that's slowing us down.

The NFL is getting faster, and with a 3-4 base (yes it is), we're not fast enough on defense. Before the season, some weird study came out saying we were the second slowest team in the NFL. That's showing up big time on defense. If we run a 4-3, we're losing one of our big slow guys and replacing him, with, oh Idk, Arthur Brown or Zach Orr.

Urban hasn't shown anything? He's been a huge impact ever since he's came back. Brandon Williams is a 3-4 nose tackle. He would not be nearly as effective in a 4-3 and he has been the anchor of the defense. Why take your best player and put him in a system that doesn't fit him. Carl Davis and Jernigan are really the only 4-3 defensive tackles we have. Guy, Urban, and Williams are all 3-4 guys. Also we don't have the linebackers. All of our outside backers right now would switch to ends. Then your left with a weak spot and absolutely no depth.

I dont hate the idea of a switch do a 4-3, but with the personnel we have its not like we could make a smooth transition. I agree a 4-3 is better to keep up with the faster pace and would probably be more effective in this day and age, but we aren't built for it right now.

[The Raven]

Urban hasn't shown anything? He's been a huge impact ever since he's came back. Brandon Williams is a 3-4 nose tackle. He would not be nearly as effective in a 4-3 and he has been the anchor of the defense. Why take your best player and put him in a system that doesn't fit him. Carl Davis and Jernigan are really the only 4-3 defensive tackles we have. Guy, Urban, and Williams are all 3-4 guys. Also we don't have the linebackers. All of our outside backers right now would switch to ends. Then your left with a weak spot and absolutely no depth.

I dont hate the idea of a switch do a 4-3, but with the personnel we have its not like we could make a smooth transition. I agree a 4-3 is better to keep up with the faster pace and would probably be more effective in this day and age, but we aren't built for it right now.

 

Brent Urban had a mere 11 snaps last week. What huge impact is he having?

 

Brandon Williams would dominate in a 4-3. His burst off the line is rare for 330+ pound men. He's not at his best as a clogger. What makes B-Will so dominant is his ability to penetrate and push back linemen. Those are characteristics of a 4-3 guy. Urban is an athletic freak for his size, also making him a good fit for a 4-3. He's so quick, he's in a traditional 3-4. Same with Guy. Our defensive linemen are all athletic, penetrator types that you see in 4-3 Tampa 2 teams. They aren't your typical cloggers.

 

I know we need LBs. We have enough for a starting 4-3, but we need backups. We can do that.

[52liveforever]

Brent Urban had a mere 11 snaps last week. What huge impact is he having?

Brandon Williams would dominate in a 4-3. His burst off the line is rare for 330+ pound men. He's not at his best as a clogger. What makes B-Will so dominant is his ability to penetrate and push back linemen. Those are characteristics of a 4-3 guy. Urban is an athletic freak for his size, also making him a good fit for a 4-3. He's so quick, he's in a traditional 3-4. Same with Guy. Our defensive linemen are all athletic, penetrator types that you see in 4-3 Tampa 2 teams. They aren't your typical cloggers.

I know we need LBs. We have enough for a starting 4-3, but we need backups. We can do that.

Haha what? Urban has had 2 sacks and a blocked punt in limited action id say that's an impact. And I don't know what Brandon Williams you are watching. He is at his best as a clogger because he can push the whole line and his burst isn't really what you want out of a 4-3 tackle. He's doesn't compare to a suh, Atkins, Donald. Williams is a clogger. Urban is a 3-4 end. He's not a Mario Williams, Julius peppers, or a JJ Watt. He's more of a Trevor pryce or Aaron smith.

[cushrinada1986]

Ok so didnt want this buried in the Fire Pees thread of the Changes for Next Year. This is solely focused upon the D, moving forward and some facts and stats. All the questions we as fans get are based upon "If not Pees than who?" and "Why switch to a 4-3 base". So I did a bunch of research that we can discuss. Harbs and Co pay attention ok?

The "Greatest Defense the NFL has ever seen was the 2000 Ravens" yeah maybe some people would argue the Steel Curtain or the Bears D but the fact remains the 2000 team holds the records for fewest ppg ever in history, and won a SB with a jv squad of inept offense. FACT. That D ran a 4-3, ok really they ran more of a 4-6 bear but thats besides the point. The starters were, Boulware Lewis Sharper at LB and a front 4 of Burnett @ 267 pounds, Adams @ 350, Goose @ 340 and McCrary @ 260. Now your prob wondering why Im listing the weights of our front 4. Ill get to that. So there it was, along with a really good secondary and a aggressive DC this was the basis of the best ppg defense in the history of the NFL, who went up against the best rushing offense AND the best passing offense and stomped both that year. anyways.

Here are the "magical stats and weights" for a front 4 in todays NFL. DT should average 307 pounds. DE 269. Carolina one of the most dominant fronts in the NFL weigh from LDE to RDE. 275 299 311 264. Minn with their #1 D in the league is 270 320 305 265.

That said, here are the weights of our guys. Projected DTs in a 4-3 front

Davis 320

BWill 335

The Interesting thing is Davis actually played in a 4-3 DT in college. BWill was a 3-4 NT but also played 5 tech. Now we have back ups and rotational:

KLM 315

Jerrigan 302

Guy 305

Again all played in a 4-3 in college.

DEs.

ZSmith 275. Was projected coming out of college as a prototypical 4-3 end. Has the weight, this past week played in that EXACT same role and scored 2 sacks. This isnt rocket science here.

Urban 295. Played all over the line. But at his height and arm reach, think Watt as far as knockdowns and passes to the flat just not getting past him.

Now Upshaw played a 4-3 strong side end at Bama. Weight 272. No wonder he cant transition to a 3-4. IF we dont draft Bosa maybe he gets kept on to play the same 4-3 end here. And Urban is the backup on passing downs or specific plays they see or the competition. Like the Chiefs. Bunch of little passes in the middle and flat, you start Urban. The Steelers you start Upshaw. Its a win win, cheap.

Getting to the LBs. Of course Mosley played MLB at Bama. Again a 4-3, so thats set. So we need a Sam, who is your jack of all trades LB, can sniff out runs and get through blockers, or play the pass, or even rush the QB at times. Suggs, Doom? Hmmm maybe Suggs can, but def not doom. And even Sizzle wouldnt be the best.

Than you need a Will. Whos a fast speedy guy who can cover AND blitz the QB on occasion. Now we have ABrown, who thats actually what his role was in college, again no wonder he cant get on the field. However Id think Sizzle could fit, maybe.

But theres the facts. And hence why we play alot of 4-3 under even when were not in the nickle. And still keep alot of the same personnel as for the front for such.

Bosa is a 4-3 DE. The best in the draft. And thats what he is. Period. J.Smith is the best 4-3 Will LB in the draft. Period. Those are theyre grades by scouts and professionals all over the country.

Sorta like ZSmith was graded as purely a strong side 4-3 End, period. We tried to make him a OLB. Brooks graded as a "robber" and st guy and a backup FS at best. Yet our scouts thought better. Elam, graded as a SS starter. His 1st year he started at FS and on athleticism was kinda serviceable. Move him to his natural position and now hes lost and cant tackle. Now this isnt a attack on the scouting, but obviously theres a disconnect. Stop trying to overthink, stop fitting square pegs in round holes. These are solid facts. The scouts who found Sizzle and changed his position arent the same ones we have now. The scouts we had even before that found Ray and Ed, but it wasnt rocket science. Ed was the best college FS in college. Ray the best MLB. Ogden was the best OT. They didnt reinvent the wheel. They said thats the best guy at his position. Period. None said well Ed could be a SS or a LB or Ray is light lets make him a SS. No they said thats his position and hes the best. Done.

Anyways. Discuss away. Just presenting facts. Not one to complain without providing factual proof. So there it is

 

TBH, The idea of pushing Jerrigan, Urban, Williams and Davis all inside sounds like a good idea(having Jerrigan and Urban on passing downs and Davis and Williams on runs would sound like the perfect balance for a pass rush. I also think allowing Suggs and Doom to just pin their ears back and take care of the outside would also help simplify their position. I would think Upshaw would count as more an inside DT/Outside LE hybrid so that helps with depth as well. My only thing is that wouldn't that leave some need to reload at LB since a lot of our OLB would mostly be DE's in a 43? If that is the case, I love the idea of adding Erick Sriker next season, guy has great speed and would be a great pass rush option if doom or suggs were to be injured.

[CalvinSmoke]

Orr-Smith-Mosley

Doom-Daviz/Urban-Williams/Jernigan-Suggs/Upshaw

[The Raven]

Haha what? Urban has had 2 sacks and a blocked punt in limited action id say that's an impact. And I don't know what Brandon Williams you are watching. He is at his best as a clogger because he can push the whole line and his burst isn't really what you want out of a 4-3 tackle. He's doesn't compare to a suh, Atkins, Donald. Williams is a clogger. Urban is a 3-4 end. He's not a Mario Williams, Julius peppers, or a JJ Watt. He's more of a Trevor pryce or Aaron smith.

 

The reason it's hard to notice B-Will's burst is because he's playing the 1 tech nine times out of ten, where he's getting doubled. The few times you see him at the 3, where you don't get doubled at much, he ends up in the backfield making a play. Simply put, when he's not doubled, he's in the backfield. That's what I look for in a penetrating DT. A clogger is someone like, say, Brandon McKinney or Vince Wilfork. A guy that will take on doubles and stand firm, but not get in the backfield. Brandon Williams lives in the backfield if he's not doubled. He gets off the ball fast.

 

Urban can absolutely be a 3-4 DE, but I think he's best served as a 3 technique or maybe a 4-3 LE. He's not stocky enough to consistently two gap. I'd love to see him used the way JJ Watt is used. He's athletic enough to be used like that. He's long, athletic, and lean for his size. He's a single gap DT, not a clogger. He's making an impact but I don't know if I'd call it huge. That's just semantics. Huge impact, to me, would be more than 11 snaps a game.

Edited December 26, 2015 by The Raven

[flynismo]

Hey, when you suck at your job, you're going to get canned. Same goes for you and I. Pees is an awful DC and deserves the boot.

I don't think he is a terrible DC. I don't think he's particularly great; he just is not the right person for this team

[PurpleCity5]

I don't think he is a terrible DC. I don't think he's particularly great; he just is not the right person for this team

I agree, I don't think he is awful either. I personally think that when something does not work then you part ways, thats how I feel between the Ravens and Pees. Kinda like a divorce. This can be a positive thing for Pees, if we agree to just part ways, then he can find opportunities elsewhere and not have his resume effected.

Edited December 26, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[DenverRaven]

As far as Pees goes, I think the FO is just waiting for the season to end. They'll move on, and start looking for someone who build the next great D. That's one thing I've grown to respect about the franchise... Outside of the Cam firing, they don't knee-jerk and there's no need to in a lost season. Pees will find work elsewhere. Rightfully so, as he could be competent with the right players.

 

The offense was still working under Kubiak's playbook, and Trestman will get a chance to use his own next year. I don't think the O is a problem when healthy... But, the D can't give up leads. Biscotti and Harbs have acknowledged this, and we may see a surprising hire for the DC.

[The Raven]

Again, I think the problem with Pees is that he's too cerebral and makes the players think too much. When I watch other teams, they swarm to the ball faster, they hit harder, and they just play faster. We look slow compared to other defenses. I'm not sure if it's because we're slow or if we're thinking too much, but I think it's a little of both.

[The Mom Gene]

I don't believe Dean Pees is perfect, but I also don't think he's done a horrible job.  You guys have said it yourselves...  We just don't have the defensive players we had a few years back.  If you look at all who we have lost in the past 3 years, it still takes time to develop a group of guys... 

 

After February 2013, we lost Paul Kruger, Dannell Ellerbe, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, C. Williams, C. Graham,

After February 2014, we lost Haloti Ngata,

After February 2015, we lost Suggs to injury during Game 1.... 

 

(and I'm sure I've missed a couple).  But that's 8 starting (6 really good) defensive players...  ALL really good defensive players.

 

And if you look at what we have gained... Brought in Daryl Smith, and drafted guys like Mosley, Williams, Jernigan, just to name a few.

 

It's just gonna take some time.  We live in this world of "instant gratification".  We have to rebuild what we have lost. It takes time.  I look at teams that have built their defenses lately. Denver and Carolina for example.  I look back at 3 or 4 years ago, and their defenses were awful. 

 

Time and Patience are key. 

[BSHU_Miami]

Again, I think the problem with Pees is that he's too cerebral and makes the players think too much. When I watch other teams, they swarm to the ball faster, they hit harder, and they just play faster. We look slow compared to other defenses. I'm not sure if it's because we're slow or if we're thinking too much, but I think it's a little of both.

this I agree with, our players look unsure every single play. That's coaching imo a

[The Raven]

this I agree with, our players look unsure every single play. That's coaching imo a

 

Over-coaching is not a good thing. It slows the game down too much. Over thinking causes miscommunications. Where have I heard about miscommunication in our defense? The secondary!

[Militant X 1]

Again, I think the problem with Pees is that he's too cerebral and makes the players think too much. When I watch other teams, they swarm to the ball faster, they hit harder, and they just play faster. We look slow compared to other defenses. I'm not sure if it's because we're slow or if we're thinking too much, but I think it's a little of both.

 

Over-coaching is not a good thing. It slows the game down too much. Over thinking causes miscommunications. Where have I heard about miscommunication in our defense? The secondary!

 

This is so true!  Just stop thinking so much and play ball!

[DomMcRaven]

Here's a fun fact that I found comical: according to NFL.com, here's where we are in the rankings of defensive passing yards in comparison to the rest of the AFC North. 

 

Ravens: 242.3 (15th)

Bengals: 244.1 (18th)

Browns: 252.9 (22nd)

Steelers: 279.1 (31st)

 

Lol. Go figure, right?