[News] Timmy Jernigan Defends Hit On Alex Smith

[rmcjacket23]

/There is a BIG difference between linining up offsides and hitting a player out of bounds. If was not even close, the guy  nearset to the QB pulled up and did not hit any  body

I agree... what does that have to do with coaching?

And for the record...lining up offsides is dumber in my eyes. I can't even think of a viable reason for it to happen. At least Jernigan might partially think he's in bounds.

[catgirl54]

Jernigan is a meathead. Now I'm beginning to think Harbs may be one too. Smith was definitely out of bounds. If this is the way the guys are getting coached, no wonder we're losing.

[law215]

Jernigan response indicates he is not about team success. He mentions if I didn't hit him and he continues to run, cameras will be in MY face. He thinks of his image rather than keeping his head in the game and knowing the situation. Neither did he apologize for costing the team. You can't just have the coach telling you the right things, you need the players to be locker room leaders and hold each other accountable. Team does not have good leadership among players. They make excuses for stupid plays every week. Just like Harbs stupid excuse for going for it 4th and 9 on their 30 yard line. He commented it was 21-7 but it was 14-7. Maybe they get lack of situation from the coach.

[Crusader]

I agree... what does that have to do with coaching?

And for the record...lining up offsides is dumber in my eyes. I can't even think of a viable reason for it to happen. At least Jernigan might partially think he's in bounds.

John got rid of all the alpha males that could help these type guys but he built a college team and now it's complete with the yellow pants. 

[Obie]

Don't apologize Tim for the way football is supposed to be played and not for how you are allowed to play, it's not football anymore, should have taken his block off. As soon as I saw the yellow pants I knew we were going to lose, I get the meaning, but, yuck.

[BillyD]

I agree... what does that have to do with coaching?

And for the record...lining up offsides is dumber in my eyes. I can't even think of a viable reason for it to happen. At least Jernigan might partially think he's in bounds.

It has EVERYTHING to do with coaching!  When you hear people talk about discipline, about how few or how many penalties a team receives, it's a reflection of the coach.  Did you ever play sports?  Did a coach ever teach you the rules and how to play within the rules, or did he just teach you "technique" and tell you to figure out the rest?  You hear all the time about players who have a certain reputation, maybe they're considered a "dirty" player, or maybe just undisciplined or "bone headed", or whatever you want to call it, all of a sudden they go to a team with a guy that can coach and he's a superstar.  Mistakes are going to happen, yes.  But when they happen repeatedly there is a coaching/discipline issue, and it's up to the coaching staff to figure out how to correct it.  Why the heck do you think they do film study and review game tape?  Just to work on "technique"?  Tell the players they have to cover or tackle better?  They also review all the penalties and correct where the player went wrong, if they did commit a penalty.  That's also why the league sends out rule changes, etc each season, so the coaches can go over them with the team.  I mean, come on man. 

[rmcjacket23]

It has EVERYTHING to do with coaching!  When you hear people talk about discipline, about how few or how many penalties a team receives, it's a reflection of the coach.  Did you ever play sports?  Did a coach ever teach you the rules and how to play within the rules, or did he just teach you "technique" and tell you to figure out the rest?  You hear all the time about players who have a certain reputation, maybe they're considered a "dirty" player, or maybe just undisciplined or "bone headed", or whatever you want to call it, all of a sudden they go to a team with a guy that can coach and he's a superstar.  Mistakes are going to happen, yes.  But when they happen repeatedly there is a coaching/discipline issue, and it's up to the coaching staff to figure out how to correct it.  Why the heck do you think they do film study and review game tape?  Just to work on "technique"?  Tell the players they have to cover or tackle better?  They also review all the penalties and correct where the player went wrong, if they did commit a penalty.  That's also why the league sends out rule changes, etc each season, so the coaches can go over them with the team.  I mean, come on man. 

You do realize that you unknowingly just said that it's not the coaches fault right? You literally just said its the players fault and its his job to correct it. Here are the direct quotes from your statement above that prove this:

 

1. "Did a coach ever teach you the rules and how to play within the rules, or did he just teach you "technique" and tell you to figure out the rest?"

 

Why yes, actually, coaches did teach me the rules. And when I violated them, they told me what rules I violated (if I didn't already know, which most of the time I did), and I took responsibility for it. Notice at no point in time did a reasonable human being turn around to their coach and say "well, coach, you didn't teach me that rule and I'm blaming you for my own stupidity". When you blame coaching for this, that's what you are saying... that the coach committed the penalty. I know you're smart enough to know that Jernigan knows he hit the guy late. At that moment, its 100% on him. Its 100% on him to correct it, and 100% on him to make sure it doesn't happen again. The coach would be the problem if he didn't inform the player of the rule, but that's clearly not the case here.

 

2. "You hear all the time about players who have a certain reputation, maybe they're considered a "dirty" player, or maybe just undisciplined or "bone headed", or whatever you want to call it, all of a sudden they go to a team with a guy that can coach and he's a superstar."

 

Honestly, I can't even think of one. Dirty players tend to be dirty players on every team they play for. Suh isn't playing any different in Miami than he is in Detroit. James Harrison didn't play any different in Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh again, etc. I'd be very interested in hearing the names of some of these players who were allegedly "dirty" on one team and turned into choir boys on another. I would almost guarantee that, if there are actually any, it had nothing to do with coaching.

 

3. "But when they happen repeatedly there is a coaching/discipline issue, and it's up to the coaching staff to figure out how to correct it."

 

Coaching issue vs discipline issue are two completely separate things. How exactly do you "figure out how to correct" Jernigan from hitting a guy late? You point to the film and say "don't do this"? Is that really what you consider "coaching"? Bench the guy for doing it repeatedly? Might work, that's a discipline tactic more than a coaching tactic, because the only thing the player learns is the negative reinforcement of doing it, not necessarily the reasons why he shouldn't do it. John has no issue with discipline, as these boards will gladly tell you. If you ask many people, he cuts players and doesn't play players he doesn't like, so discipline doesn't seem to be a coaching issue there.

 

4. "Why the heck do you think they do film study and review game tape?  Just to work on "technique"?  Tell the players they have to cover or tackle better?  They also review all the penalties and correct where the player went wrong, if they did commit a penalty.  That's also why the league sends out rule changes, etc each season, so the coaches can go over them with the team."

 

So you think the coaching technique to prevent penalties is to pull them up on film, point to them, and say "don't do that"? Wow, great coaching there. And when it happens again... then what? Can't blame that on coaching, because he did precisely what you wanted him to. I guess they'll just go back to the game film the next week, point at it again, and say "don't do that".

 

Why do you literally think the most common coaching response to these situations is benching the player? Because there is practically nothing else the coach can do. The game film talking to ain't working, and whatever other bogus "coaching techniques" you think they are using doesn't work. A penalty like Jernigan's is 100% mental for him, there isn't another person on the planet that has any impact on that decision making other than him. If he doesn't realize what he is doing is hurting the team, than John won't play him. That's the MAXIMUM coaching that can be done. I'd argue that's not really coaching. That's called punishment. Its called I can't solve this problem for you, and I can't trust you to do the right thing, so you aren't playing for me.

[rmcjacket23]

John got rid of all the alpha males that could help these type guys but he built a college team and now it's complete with the yellow pants. 

I always find it amusing when people think Pollard and Boldin were alpha males...

[BillyD]

You do realize that you unknowingly just said that it's not the coaches fault right? You literally just said its the players fault and its his job to correct it. Here are the direct quotes from your statement above that prove this:

 

1. "Did a coach ever teach you the rules and how to play within the rules, or did he just teach you "technique" and tell you to figure out the rest?"

 

Why yes, actually, coaches did teach me the rules. And when I violated them, they told me what rules I violated (if I didn't already know, which most of the time I did), and I took responsibility for it. Notice at no point in time did a reasonable human being turn around to their coach and say "well, coach, you didn't teach me that rule and I'm blaming you for my own stupidity". When you blame coaching for this, that's what you are saying... that the coach committed the penalty. I know you're smart enough to know that Jernigan knows he hit the guy late. At that moment, its 100% on him. Its 100% on him to correct it, and 100% on him to make sure it doesn't happen again. The coach would be the problem if he didn't inform the player of the rule, but that's clearly not the case here.

 

2. "You hear all the time about players who have a certain reputation, maybe they're considered a "dirty" player, or maybe just undisciplined or "bone headed", or whatever you want to call it, all of a sudden they go to a team with a guy that can coach and he's a superstar."

 

Honestly, I can't even think of one. Dirty players tend to be dirty players on every team they play for. Suh isn't playing any different in Miami than he is in Detroit. James Harrison didn't play any different in Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh again, etc. I'd be very interested in hearing the names of some of these players who were allegedly "dirty" on one team and turned into choir boys on another. I would almost guarantee that, if there are actually any, it had nothing to do with coaching.

 

3. "But when they happen repeatedly there is a coaching/discipline issue, and it's up to the coaching staff to figure out how to correct it."

 

Coaching issue vs discipline issue are two completely separate things. How exactly do you "figure out how to correct" Jernigan from hitting a guy late? You point to the film and say "don't do this"? Is that really what you consider "coaching"? Bench the guy for doing it repeatedly? Might work, that's a discipline tactic more than a coaching tactic, because the only thing the player learns is the negative reinforcement of doing it, not necessarily the reasons why he shouldn't do it. John has no issue with discipline, as these boards will gladly tell you. If you ask many people, he cuts players and doesn't play players he doesn't like, so discipline doesn't seem to be a coaching issue there.

 

4. "Why the heck do you think they do film study and review game tape?  Just to work on "technique"?  Tell the players they have to cover or tackle better?  They also review all the penalties and correct where the player went wrong, if they did commit a penalty.  That's also why the league sends out rule changes, etc each season, so the coaches can go over them with the team."

 

So you think the coaching technique to prevent penalties is to pull them up on film, point to them, and say "don't do that"? Wow, great coaching there. And when it happens again... then what? Can't blame that on coaching, because he did precisely what you wanted him to. I guess they'll just go back to the game film the next week, point at it again, and say "don't do that".

 

Why do you literally think the most common coaching response to these situations is benching the player? Because there is practically nothing else the coach can do. The game film talking to ain't working, and whatever other bogus "coaching techniques" you think they are using doesn't work. A penalty like Jernigan's is 100% mental for him, there isn't another person on the planet that has any impact on that decision making other than him. If he doesn't realize what he is doing is hurting the team, than John won't play him. That's the MAXIMUM coaching that can be done. I'd argue that's not really coaching. That's called punishment. Its called I can't solve this problem for you, and I can't trust you to do the right thing, so you aren't playing for me.

1)  Right.  The coaches told you how to play the game.  And if you failed at that, i.e., made stupid penalties and stupid mistakes, there were consequences for those actions.  That's the point here.  Repeated penalties are a result of bad technique ( coaches job to teach good technique) and, if repeated consistently, the inability of the player to perform, possibly resulting in removing that player from the field of play (again, a coach's JOB to identify and correct, whether that be through TEACHING initially, and possibly further consequences if the issue continues).  These items are not mutually exclusive.  Like anything else in life, there is a process.  If you want to react to individual incidents on a one off basis, you're missing the point.

 

2)  I concede on this point that sloppy or undisciplined play is a better way to put it as opposed to "dirty players".  That's a misstatement on my part and you're right.  Dirty players tend to stay just that, dirty players, i.e. Haynesworth, Suh, ol' Bill Romanowski.  But sloppy, undisciplined play can and has been corrected.

 

3)  I disagree.  They are not mutually exclusive in my opinion.  Part of coaching is discipline.  Period.  Unless you want the inmates running the asylum.

 

4)  Again, that is part of coaching.  Benching a player is part of coaching.  Part of coaching is doing what you can to put your best players, i.e. team, on the field that will give you the best opportunity to win.  If a player's repeated stupidity costs the team, as Jernigan's stupidity has done at least 2 of the 3 times he has been flagged for personal fouls this season (the one in the Raiders game kept their game winning drive alive, and the one last week kept the KC drive alive and put them up 7 when we could have gotten a jump on them and at least kept it a game).  I guess with your approach Jernigan, who has shown no recognition that what he did was a boneheaded play, is supposed to police himself?  Say, "Gee coach, that was stupid of me, I'm taking myself out of the game now".  I guess in your world he is, and the coach is just supposed to throw up his hands and say, "Oh well, nothing I can do".

 

I disagree with your view of this topic.  Except for your second point.  My bad, there.  Good talk, though.