[News] John Harbaugh Not Apologizing For Fake Punt Call

[BR News]

Head Coach John Harbaugh said he won’t ‘go into a shell’ when it comes to play-calling in a tough season.

View the full article

[Fastynart]

baloney. Harbaugh is the problem. There is a line between being aggressive and being just plain stupid. All this crap about the Ravens beating themselves is the truth, but what the writers of these articles shirk from is that Harbaugh has lost control of this team. They beat themselves because they have no leader they respect and they are not a disciplined team. Until Bisciotti has enough of Harbaugh's inept coaching and Newsome's inept drafts, the Ravens will not improve. Ask yourself why Jah Reid and Michael Ohr are starting and doing well. Then ask yourself what is different/ It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Harbaugh does not have to apologize. He is trying to get a spark and it failed but if it would have worked then everyone would be saying it was an awesome call to go for it.

[Old School Smash Mouth FB]

By the time the ball got to the punter it was really 21 yards for the first down (9 plus 12 yards behind the line of scrimmage). Fourth and 9 is a "gutsy" call. Asking Sam Koch to fake a punt and run for 21 yards is an "unrealistic" call.

[Doomville]

i don't mind harbaugh going for a fake punt, in fact i encourage it, but when you do it inside your own territory, that's is a problem. Anyways, regarding the fake punt itself, koch should have gotten the first down and more but the blocker did a terrible job

[rmcjacket23]

baloney. Harbaugh is the problem. There is a line between being aggressive and being just plain stupid. All this crap about the Ravens beating themselves is the truth, but what the writers of these articles shirk from is that Harbaugh has lost control of this team. They beat themselves because they have no leader they respect and they are not a disciplined team. Until Bisciotti has enough of Harbaugh's inept coaching and Newsome's inept drafts, the Ravens will not improve. Ask yourself why Jah Reid and Michael Ohr are starting and doing well. Then ask yourself what is different/ It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

Jah Reid isn't doing well. And Michael Oher was terrible last season outside of Baltimore.

These are grown men playing for millions. If they lack discipline, then there's no coaching change that will help that, because a lack of discipline from an adult is 100% a personal problem.

What, do you think John walks up to Jernigan before the game and say " hey Timmy, as soon as the QB lands out of bounds, drill him so we get a penalty"? Do you people really think there's a coach on the planet that does that?

[MadStorkSociety]

I love a fake punt when it's 4th and a couple and not in your own red zone. Keep calling it, but at the right time. p.s. don't ever wear those steeler colored pants again - ever!

[ravenwildman]

Fake punt when it's 4th and 9 on your own 30 is not gutsy, that's something I would expect to see done by a 12 year old playing Madden 15! But.....it is what it is. GO RAVENS!

[ellicottraven]

Fake punt was a bad call. Especially after John's presser, it seems he believed we were trailing 21-7 at that time and needed to go for it, except we weren't. Too early to go for a bold call like that in this game especially from where we were field position wise. Just a bad call and I wish John just owned up to it, either that it was a terrible call under the circumstances or he just got the circumstances with the score wrong when he called it.

[Jfravens]

Fake punt was a great call! 31 and 41 Miss their guy, If they've had blocked their guy, Sam woulda have the 1st down. I can not believe must of you guys are really that ignorants, Go on a neg me, But i support John harbaugh it was a great call with 2 guys missing 1 block,  We were 1 block away from getting the 1st down. Stop saying that was a stupid call, At least i appreciate the effort of my team. Keep fighting Ravens! 90 % of us real fans know about football and we support you guys!

Edited December 21, 2015 by Jfravens

[sami]

my problem with the call was it put the punter in harms way. I think a better call would have been to hike it to whoever is the blocker right behind the line.

[Crusader]

Of course not, that's not your MO to be humble. John is still stuck in that "I'm oldest and I'm always right" syndrome.

[HoldingCall]

I think the gamble was based on couple of facts: 1. From that spot on the field and point in the game the Chiefs were likely focused on setting up a strong return rather than attempting a block, thus less rushers. 2. Needing 9 yards for a first down he was hoping to catch them off guard.

Conclusion: 1. The kicker would have made the first down but he cut back inside toward two defenders rather than outside where there was a block on one defender. 2. Gutsy call that I would not have made from that spot on the field. 3. The gamble shows his level of confidence in the defense.

[Tru11]

Seems Pees is going to stay since John has so much faith in the defense he is willing to have his All Pro worthy P attempt a +20 yard run to pick up a first down inside our own 30.

 

wonder if he would talk this way if koch got injured....

[Baller MD]

Fake punt was a great call! 31 and 41 Miss their guy, If they've had blocked their guy, Sam woulda have the 1st down. I can not believe must of you guys are really that ignorants, Go on a neg me, But i support John harbaugh it was a great call with 2 guys missing 1 block,  We were 1 block away from getting the 1st down. Stop saying that was a stupid call, At least i appreciate the effort of my team. Keep fighting Ravens! 90 % of us real fans know about football and we support you guys!

 

OK, we were 4-9 coming in to the game and had nothing to play for so people like you give Harbs a pass on probably one of the dumbest decisions a coach can make... Fine.  But there's no way in heaven you'd be singing the same praise if we were still in contention.  

 

Going for it on 4th and 9 deep in your own territory in the 1st quarter when it's only a 1 possession game is foolish (we basically gift-wrapped 6 points with that call), and there's no justification for it to happen, EVER!!!  

[Baller MD]

These are grown men playing for millions. If they lack discipline, then there's no coaching change that will help that, because a lack of discipline from an adult is 100% a personal problem.

What, do you think John walks up to Jernigan before the game and say " hey Timmy, as soon as the QB lands out of bounds, drill him so we get a penalty"? Do you people really think there's a coach on the planet that does that?

 

I disagree.  If this is the case then all 32 teams can just fire everyone in their coaching staff right now and both the NFL and individuals teams can also get rid of their rules and fines for inappropriate behavior - as they should be able to trust that grown men with millions will always do the right thing...

 

In the real world, it just doesn't work that way.  Adults sometimes need motivation and discipline just like teens and children do, especially grown millionaires.    You have to remember that most of these NFL players are still young adults (not fully matured) who've come in to extreme fame and fortune almost overnight.  It's a lot to handle for a young adult.  A strong coach can absolutely help keep such players focused and disciplined. 

 

For example: All season long, I've been hearing other fans on this site say that this team lacks leadership and would benefit from retired players like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed coming back to coach in some capacity.  And you know what?  They are right.

[mc_red23]

He's not apologised for some of the other terrible calls he's made since the off season so I didn't expect to see him apologise for this either. What I don't get is he made that call near/in our own end zone yet he refused to make an aggressive call at about 4th&3 around the Chief's 40 yard line.

 

If it's too risky to do it at the latter then it's ridiculous to do it near you own end zone, surely?

Edited December 21, 2015 by mc_red23

[donaldcazino]

Fake punt was a bad call. Especially after John's presser, it seems he believed we were trailing 21-7 at that time and needed to go for it, except we weren't. Too early to go for a bold call like that in this game especially from where we were field position wise. Just a bad call and I wish John just owned up to it, either that it was a terrible call under the circumstances or he just got the circumstances with the score wrong when he called it.

 

Or we are trying to make sure of the number 3 pick  especially with the score being close at the time.

[btfan2]

To me this is just another case in point for Harbaugh's poor decision making. I don't think a fake punt is a bad call. I do think it's a bad call on your own 30 yard line with the score 14-7, early in the game.

This is typical Harbaugh unwillingness to take responsibility. How many times has Joe said he made and bone headed play that he shouldn't have made.

talks about being aggressive but; how many games have we lost with Pee's stupid prevent "D" or Cam's timid play. The guy just has no cred's, just how hard is it to say, opps!!

[burnbigben]

Terrible call. It's lucky this game didn't mean anything. Expecting Sam to run over 15 yards straight up the gut for a 1st down is lunacy

[EliteRavens]

Terrible call and please don't risk Koch's health.

[coreyadams]

Horrible call Harbs. Cmon Man!

[rmcjacket23]

I disagree.  If this is the case then all 32 teams can just fire everyone in their coaching staff right now and both the NFL and individuals teams can also get rid of their rules and fines for inappropriate behavior - as they should be able to trust that grown men with millions will always do the right thing...

 

In the real world, it just doesn't work that way.  Adults sometimes need motivation and discipline just like teens and children do, especially grown millionaires.    You have to remember that most of these NFL players are still young adults (not fully matured) who've come in to extreme fame and fortune almost overnight.  It's a lot to handle for a young adult.  A strong coach can absolutely help keep such players focused and disciplined. 

 

For example: All season long, I've been hearing other fans on this site say that this team lacks leadership and would benefit from retired players like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed coming back to coach in some capacity.  And you know what?  They are right.

1. No, firing the coaching staff wouldn't accomplish anything, because that implies that the single role of a coach is player discipline, which of course isn't true. Player discipline is but a very, very, very small sliver of what coaches do and what coaches are responsible for. 

 

2. A strong coach rarely accomplishes anything of the things you've suggested. Is Bill Belichick a "strong coach"? I'd say so, yet his team commits over 6 penalties a game on average. I'd consider Rex Ryan to be a "strong, disciplinarian" type coach as well, yet his team has the second most penalties in the league. 

 

At the end of the day, how exactly do we define "discipline"? In this context, it seems like a lot of people want to define it by penalties. Well, then, if that's the case, lets go ahead and put the "Lewis/Reed would provide discipline" myth to bed:

 

Average penalties per game for the Ravens since 2009:

 

2009: 6.9

2010: 5.4

2011: 5.4

2012: 7.3

2013: 7.0 

2014: 6.7

2015: 7.6

 

So what does this tell us? Well, we can look at this various ways:

 

1. From 09-12, we averaged about 6.3 penalties per game (with Ray and Ed). From 13-15 thus far, we've averaged 7.1 penalties per game. So that discipline is worth roughly 1 penalty per game.

 

2. The 2012 Ravens, led by Ed and Ray, we one of the least disciplined teams in the league and in recent Ravens history from a penalty standpoint.

 

Now I won't disagree that we couldn't use their leadership, but bringing back retired veteran players just to provide leadership rarely ever works in the NFL. These are HOF-level players who I doubt are interested in working 18 hours a day half the year in a city they don't want to be in for less money than what they could paid to show up on TV once a week for four months.

 

At the end of the day, the reason I find this whole "lack of discipline being blamed on Harbaugh" notion ludicrous is because it directly implies that he's advocating this type of play. Its literally as if fans think he tells Timmy Jernigan to hit the guy late. It reminds me of last season when Dumervil got flagged I believe two or three times for lining up offsides, and fans literally blamed Harbaugh for it. Stop and think about the hilarity of that statement... you are blaming a coach for a veteran player who, quite literally, doesn't even know how to line up correctly on the line of scrimmage.

 

There is literally no coaching on the planet that can fix that.

Edited December 21, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[rmcjacket23]

Terrible call. It's lucky this game didn't mean anything. Expecting Sam to run over 15 yards straight up the gut for a 1st down is lunacy

Well, its not really lucky, because if this team were 10-4, he doesn't call a fake punt in that spot.

 

Frankly, I'd argue we are better off not punting at all most of the time at this point. We've got far more things that we could be working on, such as red zone defense.

[January J]

The man was trying to get a spark from his team. We are giving our young Guys a shot and trying to make things happen because we know this season is a wash. The owner knows that, the players know that, and most sensible fans know that. Ppl always look for something to complain about. If we were winning right now they'd complain about that too and would say it's a pointless victory that will just lower our draft position. Like somebody else said..if Sam had gotten one more yard everybody would be calling him gutsy and brilliant. Everything gets dissected in a loss. But penalties and a lack of discipline and execution is on the players. Even when Harbaugh try's to instill some disipline and bench a guy for fumbling he catches grief for that too. He can't win- and There's no way he can satisfy everybody even more so in a losing season when every single thing is scrutinized bc ppl are pissed off we are losing. It takes a real coach to stick it out in times like this and still get his players to give this much effort week in and week out it without turning on each other. Give the man some credit. There are 20 some teams in this league that would be ecstatic to have Harbaugh as their coach. You can bet that much.

[analys410]

Kind of hypocritical to bench Allen for a fumble, but not feel the need to apologize for a bad call that led to 7 points for the other team. This season has been very educational for everyone!

[rmcjacket23]

Kind of hypocritical to bench Allen for a fumble, but not feel the need to apologize for a bad call that led to 7 points for the other team. This season has been very educational for everyone!

Well, I mean, what exactly does punting accomplish at this point of the season anyway?

 

And he benched Allen for MULTIPLE fumbles, not just one.

[Smoke0121]

I support it. We had to do SOMETHING.

[analys410]

Well, I mean, what exactly does punting accomplish at this point of the season anyway?

At that point in the game the score was close and our defense had just got off the field, so not only did it put the competition up by two scores, it put our defense back on the field again....Point taken on Allen, this was not his first fumble.

[rmcjacket23]

Well, I mean, what exactly does punting accomplish at this point of the season anyway? At that point in the game the score was close and our defense had just got off the field, so not only did it put the competition up by two scores, it put our defense back on the field again....Point taken on Allen, this was not his first fumble.

Sure, but nobody thinks we are going to win that game. Completely feasible the Chiefs drive down the field and score on that punt anyway.

 

If anything, if we are following the fan mantra of practicing for next season, why not start testing your defense in the red zone?

 

Again, this play doesn't happen on a team competing for a playoff spot, so the argument and backlash is moot to me.