KO at left tackle in 2016.

[757RavensFan]

So if KO plays lights out these last few games at LT, do you think he'll get elite LT interest when it comes to his new contract?   I know there's teams out there w/ a LT need and a lot of cap space that can pay him well.  My thought is, if he plays too well, he'll play his way out of the Ravens budget. Also, if we sign him back as a LT, we need to add the dead money hit for getting rid of Monroe.   I'm no cap expert, so what would Monroe's dead money look like the next couple of years if he's cut

[rmcjacket23]

So if KO plays lights out these last few games at LT, do you think he'll get elite LT interest when it comes to his new contract?   I know there's teams out there w/ a LT need and a lot of cap space that can pay him well.  My thought is, if he plays too well, he'll play his way out of the Ravens budget. Also, if we sign him back as a LT, we need to add the dead money hit for getting rid of Monroe.   I'm no cap expert, so what would Monroe's dead money look like the next couple of years if he's cut

Couple issues here:

 

1. If we were to resign KO as a LT, then he would likely be asking for LT money. As such, he can arguably ask to get paid more than he would have asked to get paid as a Guard. Given what we know so far, it would be very difficult to resign him a a guard, and thus, very difficult to resign him as a LT. You're probably looking at least at $5-6M annually in either situation, and potentially more as a LT. 

 

This alone, to me, basically means he's unlikely to be here next year.

 

2. Cutting Monroe would save $2.1M against the cap in 2016. The dead money impact, generally speaking, doesn't mean much, because its a fixed cost that doesn't have impact on decision making. The only thing that really matters is the cap savings from getting rid of a player. 

 

It would be possible, though unlikely, that they would keep Monroe on as a backup/competition for KO, given the cap savings from a release aren't that great this coming season.

 

Again, all of this is moot to me, because I think KO is already out of our price range to begin with. Fully expect the FO to move on from him this offseason.

[bMore Heathen]

Couple issues here:

1. If we were to resign KO as a LT, then he would likely be asking for LT money. As such, he can arguably ask to get paid more than he would have asked to get paid as a Guard. Given what we know so far, it would be very difficult to resign him a a guard, and thus, very difficult to resign him as a LT. You're probably looking at least at $5-6M annually in either situation, and potentially more as a LT.

This alone, to me, basically means he's unlikely to be here next year.

2. Cutting Monroe would save $2.1M against the cap in 2016. The dead money impact, generally speaking, doesn't mean much, because its a fixed cost that doesn't have impact on decision making. The only thing that really matters is the cap savings from getting rid of a player.

It would be possible, though unlikely, that they would keep Monroe on as a backup/competition for KO, given the cap savings from a release aren't that great this coming season.

Again, all of this is moot to me, because I think KO is already out of our price range to begin with. Fully expect the FO to move on from him this offseason.

Agreed, I don't get why people still think we can re sign him. We made our choice, and it was Yanda. We also are heavily invested in Zuttah and Wagner is approaching FA after next season. We can't pay everyone on the line market value, especially when 2 of them (Monroe and KO) can't play 16 games. Edited December 16, 2015 by bMore Heathen

[The Raven]

Unless we move Monroe fast, we won't be re-signing KO. He's likely out of our price range at LG and LT. Personally, I'd fork over the money and pay the line, but that's just me. The only teams that have really invested bug money in the line are the Patriots and I think the Packers. It's worth noting that from about 2004-2012, the Patriots retained, I think, three of five starters on the line.

 

Whether he gets LT interest, Idk. He looked good at LT but lets see how he holds up. I wish we could keep him but we'll see.

[rmcjacket23]

Unless we move Monroe fast, we won't be re-signing KO. He's likely out of our price range at LG and LT. Personally, I'd fork over the money and pay the line, but that's just me. The only teams that have really invested bug money in the line are the Patriots and I think the Packers. It's worth noting that from about 2004-2012, the Patriots retained, I think, three of five starters on the line.

 

Whether he gets LT interest, Idk. He looked good at LT but lets see how he holds up. I wish we could keep him but we'll see.

I mean, realistically, we COULD resign him.

 

The problem is, it costs us something. Do we want to keep a solid Oline at the cost of adding a WR? At the cost of adding a secondary player? At the cost of adding a pass rusher?

 

All a matter of what you want to give up...

[The Raven]

I mean, realistically, we COULD resign him.

 

The problem is, it costs us something. Do we want to keep a solid Oline at the cost of adding a WR? At the cost of adding a secondary player? At the cost of adding a pass rusher?

 

All a matter of what you want to give up...

 

I've said this a lot, but I've always liked the Patriots' way of building their team. For about a decade, they invested about $25 million in their line, keeping most of the same starters for quite some time. What they neglected is running back, and yes, receiver, to a certain extent. They also neglected their defense a good deal. But, they won. I have long held the belief that if you build a fortress in front of your QB and preserve it, you are capable of winning games. Now, we have a solid line this year, but our defense is just so bad we couldn't win. If I was in control, we'd be spending the big money on QB, OL, and defense. It doesn't matter how damn good your receivers are if you have no line, no run game, and no defense. 

Edited December 16, 2015 by The Raven

[JoeyFlex5]

If ko plays lights out and looks there part of a starter, I say pay him and cut ties with people who we can, canty, forsett, Kendrick lewis, and zuttah are all way overpaid, and I know you can't just cut guys, but with these guys on big deals and not producing any better than a late round rookie could, we have strapped ourselves. We have been extremely reckless with the small amount of cap we have, it's really shocking to see how badly our great fo has botched our cap situation over the past few years. I think it gets worked out, but I don't think we are fighting for a super bowl until we have these contracts with no production behind them, off the books.

[PurpleCity5]

If ko plays lights out and looks there part of a starter, I say pay him and cut ties with people who we can, canty, forsett, Kendrick lewis, and zuttah are all way overpaid, and I know you can't just cut guys, but with these guys on big deals and not producing any better than a late round rookie could, we have strapped ourselves. We have been extremely reckless with the small amount of cap we have, it's really shocking to see how badly our great fo has botched our cap situation over the past few years. I think it gets worked out, but I don't think we are fighting for a super bowl until we have these contracts with no production behind them, off the books.

I think the move to FS for Webb force us to cut ties with Lewis. I like Chris Canty, good guy/good player but he is bound for the chopping block. I don't know about Zuttah, I was for cutting him but Urschel has not been good honestly.

I'm for resigning K.O since it would be tough to find a replacement at LT once Monroe is gone honestly. I think if he excells these next few games then you keep him.

[gtalk12]

not enough tape on him to know how good he really is or could be at LT.

 

if he does make the move then it's guaranteed more money, the duties a LT have maybe the most important on the field...that is just my opinion though....

 

 

if we move Monroe could we make enough room to sign him back, assuming he is as good or better then Monroe at the position...

 

front office would be wise to retain him, and let us focus on other positions in the draft and via free agency....the less questions we have heading into the offseason the better, especially if we can handle it in-house with players we know can get the job done...

 

 

time to let the front office....well...front office lol

[GrimCoconut]

I think it's an interesting situation. Veldheer was signed for what I thought was cheap in $7M/year and we got Monroe for $7.5M/year. If I had to guess, I'd say maybe we can re-sign him for 6-7M. It all depends. I mean, Michael Oher got $5M/year and people said he sucked lol

[rmcjacket23]

I've said this a lot, but I've always liked the Patriots' way of building their team. For about a decade, they invested about $25 million in their line, keeping most of the same starters for quite some time. What they neglected is running back, and yes, receiver, to a certain extent. They also neglected their defense a good deal. But, they won. I have long held the belief that if you build a fortress in front of your QB and preserve it, you are capable of winning games. Now, we have a solid line this year, but our defense is just so bad we couldn't win. If I was in control, we'd be spending the big money on QB, OL, and defense. It doesn't matter how damn good your receivers are if you have no line, no run game, and no defense. 

In theory, that works... IF you have a QB who can mostly carry a team on a week-to-week basis. Even the biggest Flacco supporters know that Joe isn't Tom Brady or any of the other QBs who people think can carry a team on their back weekly.

 

Flacco needs a supporting cast at more positions than Oline in order to succeed. In particular, he needs an effective running game and an above average defense. Those things can get difficult to sustain long term if you commit $25-$30M a year to the offensive line.

 

Keep in mind also the key caveats here... the Patriots pretty much only win SBs when they have a good defense, and the Pats are still really good this season with a completely garbage offensive line and a pretty pedestrian defense.

Edited December 16, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[rmcjacket23]

If ko plays lights out and looks there part of a starter, I say pay him and cut ties with people who we can, canty, forsett, Kendrick lewis, and zuttah are all way overpaid, and I know you can't just cut guys, but with these guys on big deals and not producing any better than a late round rookie could, we have strapped ourselves. We have been extremely reckless with the small amount of cap we have, it's really shocking to see how badly our great fo has botched our cap situation over the past few years. I think it gets worked out, but I don't think we are fighting for a super bowl until we have these contracts with no production behind them, off the books.

Zuttah was probably the best and most consistent performer on this line besides Yanda prior to getting injured, and he's only due $3.5M next season.

 

I see no reason to lump him in this group, nor do I see any reason why he wouldn't be back.

 

There's no way we will ever have a roster full of players living up to their contract. No team in the league does. The difference is we lack depth in many areas.

[The Raven]

Zuttah was probably the best and most consistent performer on this line besides Yanda prior to getting injured, and he's only due $3.5M next season.

 

I see no reason to lump him in this group, nor do I see any reason why he wouldn't be back.

 

There's no way we will ever have a roster full of players living up to their contract. No team in the league does. The difference is we lack depth in many areas.

 

Consistent, sure. Best? Laughable. Zuttah isn't worth a damn in the run game. That said, he's good enough, and I'll keep him at only $3.5 million.

Edited December 16, 2015 by The Raven

[Willbacker]

Are you really going to trust a 4 game audition to our future at the LT spot? The one good thing is these 4 games are against steller defenses but then what are you gonna want to fork out for 4 games played. Top dollar? Franchize tag(with remembrance that a tag is equal to all OLine positions)? Paid as a guard(which he'll want more than Yanda which is my opinion)?

 

I'd be very very surprized if we resign him. Accept the high comp pick(which could possibly be our only one) and move on and see this for what it really is. An audition for Jensen at LG.

[rmcjacket23]

Consistent, sure. Best? Laughable. Zuttah isn't worth a damn in the run game. That said, he's good enough, and I'll keep him at only $3.5 million.

Excluding Yanda, there isn't anybody else on our Oline who played better than Zuttah this season. 

[The Raven]

Excluding Yanda, there isn't anybody else on our Oline who played better than Zuttah this season. 

 

I'll disagree there. Osemele and Wagner were both better in my view. Even Monroe was better the few games he was healthy for.

[rmcjacket23]

Are you really going to trust a 4 game audition to our future at the LT spot? The one good thing is these 4 games are against steller defenses but then what are you gonna want to fork out for 4 games played. Top dollar? Franchize tag(with remembrance that a tag is equal to all OLine positions)? Paid as a guard(which he'll want more than Yanda which is my opinion)?

 

I'd be very very surprized if we resign him. Accept the high comp pick(which could possibly be our only one) and move on and see this for what it really is. An audition for Jensen at LG.

Guaranteed to get one for McPhee and for Torrey, likely 4th round picks for both.

 

Based on September projections, we could also get another one for Owen Daniels as well, likely a late rounder. Slight possibility we get one for Tyrod, but not likely given his contract. 

 

We wouldn't get the comp pick for KO until the 2017 draft anyway, and that would probably be a 4th or 5th rounder, depending on how big his contract is.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Just look at our cap next year. It's almost impossible to fight for him @the FA market.

This is just basically to get a better comp pick. KO will get his stock better or as is as a LG.

[terrynjulia03]

Would be the worst move in Ravens history since, well maybe Fabian lol. No way they do this. Hope he stars the next 4 weeks, gets a LT deal somewhere else and gets us a nice comp pick. Experts flat out said in his drafting, he's NOT a LT. Hes a RT at best but better suited to be a G in the NFL.

As for Monroe, yes 2.1M savings, and 6.4M in dead money next year for it. Stupid.

[RaineV1]

The better KO plays, the more out of our price range he becomes. Whether they want him to play G or LT, I fully expect the Broncos, Rams, or Dolphins to swoop in and grab him when he hits FA.

[Deflated Football]

Would be the worst move in Ravens history since, well maybe Fabian lol. No way they do this. Hope he stars the next 4 weeks, gets a LT deal somewhere else and gets us a nice comp pick. Experts flat out said in his drafting, he's NOT a LT. Hes a RT at best but better suited to be a G in the NFL.

As for Monroe, yes 2.1M savings, and 6.4M in dead money next year for it. Stupid.

"Experts" also said Aaron Curry was the safest pick of the 2009 draft. KO held his own against Seattle defenders. I'd say that was a pretty good audition. Edited December 16, 2015 by Deflated Football

[terrynjulia03]

"Experts" also said Aaron Curry was the safest pick of the 2009 draft. KO held his own against Seattle defenders. I'd say that was a pretty good audition.

Did he? Didnt look like it. What was his grade by Filmstudy? Does he post here? Gp check RSR. He didnt grade out like some superstar.

It really is a moot point though. We cant pay him, we cant even pay him as a G let alone a LT. Well theoretically we could, and you can say bye bye to,signing any FAs or retaining a couple other guys wed like to. This isnt Madden.

[757RavensFan]

I'll disagree there. Osemele and Wagner were both better in my view. Even Monroe was better the few games he was healthy for.

 

I'll play.  I disagree there.  Ain't no way Wagner played better than Zuttah this season.  Early in the season in multiple games, Wagner was graded as the worst RT in the league. 

[Winchester]

In theory, that works... IF you have a QB who can mostly carry a team on a week-to-week basis. Even the biggest Flacco supporters know that Joe isn't Tom Brady or any of the other QBs who people think can carry a team on their back weekly.

 

Flacco needs a supporting cast at more positions than Oline in order to succeed. In particular, he needs an effective running game and an above average defense. Those things can get difficult to sustain long term if you commit $25-$30M a year to the offensive line.

 

Keep in mind also the key caveats here... the Patriots pretty much only win SBs when they have a good defense, and the Pats are still really good this season with a completely garbage offensive line and a pretty pedestrian defense.

The patriot Oline was a big reason for 2 losses. Their Oline is getting back to normal now. And if Brady has one thing on Joe Flacco it is he is historically great at getting his throw out in a blink!! And patsies did front a formidable underrated oline. Joe Cool does not need an above average defense. He has never had the weapons to make that statement that he can't succeed without a defense. How many times did Joe Cool have to carry the star studded defense in the playoffs?? Even with pedestrian receivers. In today's NFL defenses don't carry offenses these days. Even the most vaunted defenses find themselves in shootouts. Seattle and the panthers are 2 of the best defenses. And in the playoffs the winner of those teams will very likely be who wins the shootout. It is what the NFL wants and made the rules to carry out. Can not even bump a receiver after 5 yards,receivers no longer fear Hits. QBs can throw the ball away to avoid a sack. QBs can not be touched after a throw and can't be hit hard before a throw. More holding than ever is allowed!! More often than not big games are shootouts regardless who plays defense. And that is how the NFL wants it.

A formidable Oline that not only blocks but can dish out pumishment to Dlines benefits more than just Joe Cool. It helps the run game in multiple ways. To begin with it opens holes. A formidable Oline wears down ravens opponents and takes their confidence. It allows Joe to throw in a clean pocket with proper mechanics. It opens up countless routes and allows Trestmans and offensive coaches to take advantage of countless schemes and route concepts. It allows for a methodical balance of run and throw thus keeping opponents off balance and tired. It makes receivers better and encourages them to continuously to work and get open and grows confidence. And results in Big plays and far more run after catch big plays. It then opens things up even more for running backs as opponents get spread out more. If ravens add a receiver in round2 it will make defenses respect the big play as well as methodical drives. It keeps the defense fresh and allows to save its tricks and blitzes for key plays. Not good when another teams knows all the blitzes and tricks before halftime

Putting Kelechi at Tackle could be dangerous in regards to signing him. His minor injuries could help get him at a slight bargain. He could very well kick butt!! In my opinion Kelechi Osemele was the most skilled Olineman in the 2012 draft. His pick was the last time I was giving Ozzie big props!! To get the most raw talented Olineman in late round2!! Now he is more refined. He is the best pick Ozzie has made in years. Only Brandon Williams remotely comes close. I can not agree with letting the best left guard in the NFL walk to sign a couple role players that could be found in rounds3-7. Defense wins championships is venerable thinking. Even many proud retired defensive players acknowledge that!! How many of John Lynch's big hits that caused incompletions or fumbles would be flags in today's game?? Supernowls are won with forward thinking. Every team in the NFL could end up trying to copy a ravens Oline that can punch even vaunted defenses in the mouth! And spring a formidable run game and high scoring offense that can hit big plays and sustain drives. Even many teams with VERY impressive throwing stats have trouble sustaining drives!! Just some thoughts.

[Winchester]

Did he? Didnt look like it. What was his grade by Filmstudy? Does he post here? Gp check RSR. He didnt grade out like some superstar.

It really is a moot point though. We cant pay him, we cant even pay him as a G let alone a LT. Well theoretically we could, and you can say bye bye to,signing any FAs or retaining a couple other guys wed like to. This isnt Madden.

Who would you prefer to sign over the most devastating drive blocking guard in the NFL today?? Players like that can not be replaced!! Any players the ravens sign to let Osemele walk, could be found in rounds3-7. #2 cornerbacks are signing for over $10mil anually!! Would you prefer Jimmy or the other overrated overpayed loser in philly to Kelechi Osemele?? So you say keep Monroe just because he has money on the books?? what does it matter what is saved if Monroe is cut or hom much is on the books?? If he sucks and can't play then what is the reason to keep him?? Save the nearly $3mil and Put the money towards a real Oline player!!

[The Raven]

I'll play.  I disagree there.  Ain't no way Wagner played better than Zuttah this season.  Early in the season in multiple games, Wagner was graded as the worst RT in the league. 

 

For the first two or three games, yes. After that, he rebounded in a big way.

[Maryland]

I don't really know how to read into the KO at LT move. Are we seeing if he is worth re-signing as a LT? Or are we showcasing him as a possible LT/Pro-bowl LG for other teams in FA? (to net a better comp. pick).

 

We could afford to sign him if we just back-load his contract (which is par for the course anyway). I'm eager to see how he plays out the season. 

[atomicfront]

I don't really know how to read into the KO at LT move. Are we seeing if he is worth re-signing as a LT? Or are we showcasing him as a possible LT/Pro-bowl LG for other teams in FA? (to net a better comp. pick).

 

We could afford to sign him if we just back-load his contract (which is par for the course anyway). I'm eager to see how he plays out the season. 

 

Neither.  We are giving Jensen a chance to show whether he is a starting guard.  Osemele is as good as gone.  I am sure he will get a pretty good contract. 

[elemento]

Makes no sense

 

4 games is not enough to decide if KO can play as a LT for the next few years. 

 

I know a lot of people don't like Monroe, but it wouldn't be wise to dump him, at least for now. 

[Cillmatic]

Are you really going to trust a 4 game audition to our future at the LT spot? The one good thing is these 4 games are against steller defenses but then what are you gonna want to fork out for 4 games played. Top dollar? Franchize tag(with remembrance that a tag is equal to all OLine positions)? Paid as a guard(which he'll want more than Yanda which is my opinion)?

I'd be very very surprized if we resign him. Accept the high comp pick(which could possibly be our only one) and move on and see this for what it really is. An audition for Jensen at LG.

Four-game audition against some damn good competition. Doing well against Seahawks-Chiefs-steelers-Bengals would be a great sign. I believe in him.