[News] Late For Work 12/14: 6 Takeaways From Ravens-Seahawks Game That Have Future Implications

[Kwilliams84]

Can we just cut klye arrington, pitta due to health, trade monroe for whatever just to get rid of his contract, cut marlon brown, Reconstruct Flaccos contract, Resign K.o and move him to tackle long term for us, Resign upshaw he shouldnt be that expensive since he never developed into a pass rusher but he has become a solid run stopper, Resign tucker tresman needs to start running ball way more and using flacco in play action way more like kubiak did, 1st round draft cb/s jalaen Ramsey or Vernon hargreaves 2nd round Draft a wr Tyler boyd, Demarcus robinson, josh doctson, 3rd round draft a pass rusher and trade comp picks for another 3rd round pick and wrs could look like Steve smith, daniel brown, jeremy butler, perimman, 2nd round pick, aiken and givens that pretty solid.

[January J]

I'm just relieved that schaub liking won't be hitting that incentive 10% of snaps mark.

[sami]

Dan brown had one catch for 31 yards and 4 catches for a total of 16 yards. That averages out to 4 yds a catch. don't get too high on him yet. Marlon did a heck of a lot better than that his rookie year and now everyone is calling for his head.

[bioLarzen]

Dan brown had one catch for 31 yards and 4 catches for a total of 16 yards. That averages out to 4 yds a catch. don't get too high on him yet. Marlon did a heck of a lot better than that his rookie year and now everyone is calling for his head.

 

With all due respect...

 

1.) Marlon Brown was thrown to by Flacco. Dan Brown is thrown to by the likes of Schaub and Clausen...

 

2.) Dan Brown is not a speedster, so it's only natural he won't put up 10+ YPC's. Yep, 4 YPC is not too much - but once again, we're talking avbout Schaub and Clausen under C, not Flacco.

 

3.) Marlon Brown was projected to go no later than mid-round in the draft, it's just his injury that left him undrafted. Dan Brown was a "true" undrafted guy.

 

3.) Nobody is calling for Marlon's head because of his rookie performance.

 

4.) The fact that Marlon Brown could never live up to the expectation  the fans  had of him based on his rookie season doesn't necessarily say anything about Dan Brown. He may have the same cereer trajectory - but he may also end up being a great slot receiver for us. No  way of knowing it now.

 

That said - I don't think many people think Dan Brown is the second coming of Megatron. It's just that that so far he's been promising - and it's still much better than having a bad rookie season, isn't it?  It seems that for our UDFA receivers it's seasons 2-3 that are decisive. Deonte and LaQuan both also had promising rookie seasons - then faded away like Marlon Brown has. Yep, it's getting much harder to shine when suddenly you get more attention from the opponent's DC... If Dan Brown continues to convince, he may experience the same next season...

Edited December 15, 2015 by bioLarzen

[utalkingtome123]

Can you imagine jeremy butler, breshad perriman, daniel brown, darren waller and chris matthews. If they are trained and developed the right way this can be a scary WR lineup but I'd say honestly they need like 2 years to develop though lol

[purpledown]

I hate to see KO go but he is as good as gone.The Ravens NEVER win bidding wars. Clausen should start the final three games, of course if he is not forced to go on IR. The Ravens may have their backup for next season.

[olescule24]

Gotta give props to Jeremy Butler. He was in my opinion more productive than Kamar and Dan Brown. He was Clausen's go to guy and he held up well. Brown and Butler were the only bright spots in an otherwise dull day for the Ravens.

[Purple Dawg 96]

I want to see Renner wasn't pleased with Jimmy it took me back to the days of Redmond, Case and Boller days and I liked Kyle but I'd rather see Renner here on out!

[RavenManiac#7]

I'd like to see KO continue to play as well or, even, improve on his playing at LT the rest of the season. And I'd like to see him signed long term to be our LT going forward. I agree that Clausen is an upgrade over Schaub, but I just heard that we signed Ryan Mallet on ESPN. If that's true, I hope we can keep Mallet for next year too. He's an upgrade over Clausen and in the unlikely event that Joe isn't ready to go right away next year, I like the idea of Mallet starting for us over Clausen Or Schaub. Of the three, I'd prefer seeing Mallet signed for next season. I like him as Joe's backup.

[feartheflock]

Agree. Flacco definitely should get credit for the numbers he was putting up considering what he had around him. People that have hated on Flacco are now getting a glimpse of what this Raven team looks like without him and it is not a pretty sight. What people are forgetting is that Flacco has had to deal with a different Offensive Coordinator for 4 years in a row and during that time, we have gone to the play offs and even won a Super Bowl. You can't say that about the other Qb's. Brady, Rodgers, Rivers, just to name a few have all had consistency in their coordinators AND had playmakers to throw to. Maybe now some of the haters will acknowledge the fact that Flacco has done a great job for this team- considering. 

This team was losing even with Joe Flacco as a starter. And the offensive coordinators Joe has had have been very good ones, so it's not like he's been dealing with a bunch of nobodies. In fact, Joe probably feels lucky to have been coached by some of the best offensive minds in the league like Trestman, Kubiak, and Caldwell.

[BigUgly]

The defense was atrocious. The only major missing piece was Suggs. There was no pressure on Wilson, despite a patchwork Seahawks O-Line, and had the secondary not been so poor and Rawls knocked out of the game, he would have easily rushed for well over 100 yds. Linebackers not tackling, and a secondary that is YET AGAIN confused, out of position and playing with poor technique. Can't fire the entire defense, so the responsibility has to lie with the coaching. Amazed the secondary coach hasn't been canned, if not Pees himself.

[ReginaldColeman1]

They said it on The Fan yesterday injuries aren't the only reason the Ravens are power ranked number 30. They played no better with Joe and we don't need to be reminded about his TD/INT numbers do we? I know Jimmy will be back. Probably Webb. Contracts make them part of the team while Monroe is defacto gone. Again the The Fan said Shareense is ranked number one at corner and Vinnie said both the two franchise corners: Smith and Webb are in the 90's. Nineties!!! Their contracts could buy a Cessna for getting around on the eastern shore to a mansion. What up with that? But I know next spring the stories will be hauled out like the last three that they're set at this and they're ready at that. Well maybe they'll try a little forthright reporting instead of the snow jobs we get.

[TheConquerorWorm]

Sorry, Patirots suck without Amendola, Edelman, and Gronk. Lafell is not a good reciever and Brady does not trust him. They started loosing once Gronk went down and it took him coming back for them to get a win against the lowly Texans who could have beaten them with a better QB.

 

I don't disagree with your premise that coaching needs to be evaluated, but Patriots with just anyone at WR is simply not true.

That just proves my point. Who where Amendola & Edelman before the Pats? Late draft picks that nobody else wanted. Same thing with Wes Welker - not good in Miami, Hall of Fame in NE, not good in Denver. Deion Branch - Super Bowl MVP on NE, absolute garbage in SEA. These are not 1st Round draft picks, these are guys that no other team wanted. The Pats took them and turned them into very good WR. Can you name a WR that the Ravens did that to? Derrick Mason was already good, so was Boldin. It's very similar to our DL (We have one of the best DL coaches) so it's no surprise that year in and year out, we have good DL - Ngata, BWill, Kruger, McPhee, Arthur Jones, Cory Redding, Kelly Gregg, Guy, Canty, etc These are not high draft picks - most were claimed off the scrap heap. Bottom line: Good position coaches = good players.

[Minionhunter]

That just proves my point. Who where Amendola & Edelman before the Pats? Late draft picks that nobody else wanted. Same thing with Wes Welker - not good in Miami, Hall of Fame in NE, not good in Denver. Deion Branch - Super Bowl MVP on NE, absolute garbage in SEA. These are not 1st Round draft picks, these are guys that no other team wanted. The Pats took them and turned them into very good WR. Can you name a WR that the Ravens did that to? Derrick Mason was already good, so was Boldin. It's very similar to our DL (We have one of the best DL coaches) so it's no surprise that year in and year out, we have good DL - Ngata, BWill, Kruger, McPhee, Arthur Jones, Cory Redding, Kelly Gregg, Guy, Canty, etc These are not high draft picks - most were claimed off the scrap heap. Bottom line: Good position coaches = good players.

Again, I don't disagree with your point that the Ravens don't develop WR talent, and I WISH they would find a way to do that, or at least teach them how to get open, and maybe Bobby can't and last year was more SSS coming in and changing things.

 

Still you don't have to listen to all the Patriots crap I do since I have to be up here. Amendola was given a big contract, I think bigger than SSS, and he sucked the first year and into last year in NE, then he started returning punts and got into Brady's circle of trust (he won't throw to someone unless they earn it), that is only when he started performing. The Pats also spent draft picks on those guys, so they know something about picking them, and that is critical. Ravens did that with Camp, but his is injury prone seemingly, they did a mirror of how the Patriots did it with Eddleman. So they need some talent re-evaluation. What about the Steelers, Tomlin is the one who picked Bryant, and he is on fire, but Tomiln has a WR coaching background, Bryant was passed on by a lot of teams.... So there is a talent evaluation thing here too, I think it is a hangover from the old ways of leaning on the stellar D, and not putting much into offense, now they are trying to evaluate offensive talent and have to run through that process. Finally, the Pats are nothing without Gronk, they just don't move the ball well, and that was really well demonstrated when he was out this year, they went downhill without JE, then collapsed without Gronk, he is the #2 most important key to that offense, and he had to be manipulated to get him out there for the Texans game. Brady is also in the same offensive system he has had for years (save for the one year when McDaniels left to coach Denver and then came back), so there is offensive consistency too.... Its not just that the Patriots devleop WR, they have extended stability on their coaching staff with long term planning and control. We'll see next year what happens when McDaniels goes off to coach some other team.

[RavensBaltimore]

Certainly - but, as far as I understand, it's not the question of whether it's cheaper, but wheher we have the cap space for that. And frankly,  don't see the cap space - but the Flacco-deal's reworking is still ahead, of course, and that can change a lot of things.

Flacco will almost certainly restructure, the cap will probably go up, and cutting Monroe should give us some room to pay another LT. It would only save us about $2mil in 2016, but they could backload KOs contract with a signing bonus, so his cap number doesn't get too high until 2017, when most of Monroe's contract would be off the books, so it kind of evens out.

[RavensBaltimore]

That just proves my point. Who where Amendola & Edelman before the Pats? Late draft picks that nobody else wanted. Same thing with Wes Welker - not good in Miami, Hall of Fame in NE, not good in Denver. Deion Branch - Super Bowl MVP on NE, absolute garbage in SEA. These are not 1st Round draft picks, these are guys that no other team wanted. The Pats took them and turned them into very good WR. Can you name a WR that the Ravens did that to? Derrick Mason was already good, so was Boldin.

You obviously don't have your facts straight. In 2012, Amendola only played in 11 games with STL, and he had more catches and more yds than he has had in any season in NE. His numbers were better overall in STL. Edelman never played anywhere besides NE, and Welker was very good in his first year in Den, despite being past his prime and missing several games. He actually set a career high in TDs that year. He wasn't good in Miami because they didn't use a spread offense with a slot receiver very often, so he had no chance. NE uses quick slot receivers more than anyone else, and those players don't get drafted early. It's their system and playcalling, not the position coaching.

 

The very last place Kamar Aiken played before Baltimore was NE, where he went back and forth from the PS to the active roster and had 0 career catches. He obviously contributed more here than he did there. He doesn't get quick separation, so he doesn't fit their system as well, and there's nothing the coaches could do about it. Quick, shifty WRs usually do well in NE's offense because their offense is based on short, quick passes more so than any team in the league. If a player doesn't fit that system, he can't be coached into it. If you watch Edelman play, he is extremely quick, has great hands, and is very tough to bring down after the catch. Those things can't be coached, and he would be a legit #1 WR in any offense that utilized the slot receiver as often as NE does.

[TheConquerorWorm]

 Quick, shifty WRs usually do well in NE's offense because their offense is based on short, quick passes more so than any team in the league. If a player doesn't fit that system, he can't be coached into it. If you watch Edelman play, he is extremely quick, has great hands, and is very tough to bring down after the catch. Those things can't be coached, and he would be a legit #1 WR in any offense that utilized the slot receiver as often as NE does.

Edelman NEVER played WR at any level until he got to the Pats. If you don't think that the coaching had anything to do with making him a "legit #1 WR" then you're kidding yourself.

 

Spread offense or not, Welker was, at best, the #3 WR in Miami behind Chris Chambers and Marty Booker. He was mainly used as a Return man. He only became a top notch WR when he went to the Pats. And guess what? Saban & the Dolphins did NOT even have a WR coach.

 

Bottom line: Quality position coaches develop quality players. The Ravens have neither at WR & CB. What position do we struggle with? Coincidence? It's also no coincidence that the Squealers have always struggled with their O-line until last year. What changed? They hired the one of the best O-line coaches in Mike Munchak. 

[RavensBaltimore]

Edelman NEVER played WR at any level until he got to the Pats. If you don't think that the coaching had anything to do with making him a "legit #1 WR" then you're kidding yourself.

 

Spread offense or not, Welker was, at best, the #3 WR in Miami behind Chris Chambers and Marty Booker. He was mainly used as a Return man. He only became a top notch WR when he went to the Pats. And guess what? Saban & the Dolphins did NOT even have a WR coach.

 

Bottom line: Quality position coaches develop quality players. The Ravens have neither at WR & CB. What position do we struggle with? Coincidence? It's also no coincidence that the Squealers have always struggled with their O-line until last year. What changed? They hired the one of the best O-line coaches in Mike Munchak. 

I don't think we struggle at WR and CB because of coaching. Our top 2 corners were playing at a pro bowl level before suffering significant injuries. As far as WR goes, how can you judge us there when no one can stay healthy? We have been able to get some production out of undrafted players and castoffs from other teams. You're being pretty tough on Engram if you expect him to do better than that with what he has to work with. Maybe you should redirect your blame to the trainers.

 

I never said coaching didn't have anything to do with Edelman becoming a legit #1. I said that he has all the physical tools to do so, and the coaches did not give him that. I'm sure he needed coaching, but I think any competent coach can get a lot of production out of someone with elite talent.

 

The Welker comparison is meaningless, because the Dolphins' offense didn't utilize the position that Welker thrived at. It would be like putting Torrey Smith on a team that doesn't throw the ball down the field, or putting a pro bowl FB in an offense that rarely uses FBs. 

 

I'm not saying that position coaches don't matter at all, but they can't turn mediocre players into great players. Otherwise, Kamar Aiken would have never made it to Baltimore, because he would have been a star in NE. Since his talents don't fit their system as well, they couldn't get any production out of him. There aren't any WRs on NEs roster that are better than average that aren't quick and shifty, fitting their system to a tee. If it was really the position coaching, they would be able to develop different types of receivers, but they haven't been able to do that. NE has had a lot of WRs that never became good over the last few years, and Amendola was playing better in STL.