[News] Late For Work 12/8: Future Of Ravens Left Tackle Position In Doubt?

[reed20fence]

I went to the game in Miami. First and foremost Hats off to the loyal Raven following!!! Way more of us then Dolphin fans. Even on T.V my sister in law said that the "Chant" could be heard over everything. There was a huge sea of purple. Congrats to us!! As for the game, I can tell you it was a very bad officiated game. I was sitting at the end zone (field level) on the 4th and about 6 inches down and must say that it was a very bad spot. It was for sure a first down. Of course there was no reply shown being we were the visiting team, but sitting there it was a no brainer but not called. As for the phantom Pass Interference on Brown? That's just a 'Cmon Man" never happened, the guy just fell down. No replay was shown on the so called Off sides Kick six either but I didn't see it. All in all the worst officiated game I have ever attended, but had a lot of fun with ALL my fellow Raven fans!!We travel well!

I was at the game as well and second everything you just said about Ravens Nation. We easily had 1 Ravens fan for every Dolphins fan in that joint. Never once felt outnumbered, not the tailgate, not the seats, not in chanting, nothing. Practically coulda been the Bank. 

The other thing that I found interesting is that sitting close to the field, the Daniel Brown reception and phantom PI called initially looked to me like PI until I saw the replay that tons of people emailed me a few minutes after the fact. The funny thing is that a few people around me were getting the same thing on their phones.

The moral of the story is that if I as a human being with an elevated vantage point on the players can't see quickly enough to tell what is or isn't a penalty, then it isn't hard to imagine a side judge that's backpedalling trying to keep up with some of the fastest human beings alive doesn't stand a chance.

What we both relied on is decades of watching football and developing an instinct. Neither I nor the judge saw Brown actually extend his arm, but when you see a ball arriving and two guys jockeying for position and a gaping chasm form between them at the last second of about 3 or 4 yards, the brain ASSUMES someone has committed interference.

The NFL has GOT to make these things challengeable. Human beings are too limited to get it accurate 100% and having been through that experience 2 days ago I kinda sympathize with the zebras because I see it now. But that doesn't mean that an entire Franchises chances should be ruined because the League is too backwards to find meaningful ways to incorporate technological advances to call a more accurate game.

Edited December 8, 2015 by reed20fence

[OzzieBisciotti]

I think the last five drafts haven't been fruitful- that's why we have to keep combing the wires to see which other team's players we can pick up. We have a lot of holes- personally, I see Monroe coming back because of all the holes we have on this team. I hate to say it but next year won't be different as far as making the playoffs go.

[Purple Dawg 96]

@757 RavensFan, people I watch the game with at one of the sport's bar in Cleveland feel it was our year squeelers Browns cowboys even a pats fan and when they threw the ball with a minute plus remaining they all felt like I did but when I tell them I get red up on my website about that being a bad pass they have my back! Smh Justin Forsett would have ran all over the Colts and the Hawks that time of season! Oh well we say whom got the Yankee hat on because NY stands for "Next Year"! And big ben would have ran up the left sidelines it was open all day Hurst pancaked his man but they don't show all the pics from that game to back me up! I saw them on SB Nation! Oh well just keep blaming Torrey is more convenient! This draft coming up is more important than any draft in the past and I liked them all alot! O line and WRs and not a tall one AB isn't 6ft and he leads the league!

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

NO on Cary Williams.

[budman]

I was at the game as well and second everything you just said about Ravens Nation. We easily had 1 Ravens fan for every Dolphins fan in that joint. Never once felt outnumbered, not the tailgate, not the seats, not in chanting, nothing. Practically coulda been the Bank. 

The other thing that I found interesting is that sitting close to the field, the Daniel Brown reception and phantom PI called initially looked to me like PI until I saw the replay that tons of people emailed me a few minutes after the fact. The funny thing is that a few people around me were getting the same thing on their phones.

The moral of the story is that if I as a human being with an elevated vantage point on the players can't see quickly enough to tell what is or isn't a penalty, then it isn't hard to imagine a side judge that's backpedalling trying to keep up with some of the fastest human beings alive doesn't stand a chance.

What we both relied on is decades of watching football and developing an instinct. Neither I nor the judge saw Brown actually extend his arm, but when you see a ball arriving and two guys jockeying for position and a gaping chasm form between them at the last second of about 3 or 4 yards, the brain ASSUMES someone has committed interference.

The NFL has GOT to make these things challengeable. Human beings are too limited to get it accur

I agree. Take away the fact that I am a Raven fan and really any fan that must spend all that money to attend a NFL game should not be subjected to that kind of incompetence from the officials. We deserve better and more than that. You are right. the league must do something to fix what is more and more a serious problem.

[rmcjacket23]

@757 RavensFan, people I watch the game with at one of the sport's bar in Cleveland feel it was our year squeelers Browns cowboys even a pats fan and when they threw the ball with a minute plus remaining they all felt like I did but when I tell them I get red up on my website about that being a bad pass they have my back! Smh Justin Forsett would have ran all over the Colts and the Hawks that time of season! Oh well we say whom got the Yankee hat on because NY stands for "Next Year"! And big ben would have ran up the left sidelines it was open all day Hurst pancaked his man but they don't show all the pics from that game to back me up! I saw them on SB Nation! Oh well just keep blaming Torrey is more convenient! This draft coming up is more important than any draft in the past and I liked them all alot! O line and WRs and not a tall one AB isn't 6ft and he leads the league!

LOL, good one.

[RavensBaltimore]

To be honest, I don't see too many ways where we would have beaten the Seahawks last season. Get to the SB? Sure, but I didn't see us winning it.

 

Also not a given we would have beaten Indy in their building, though I liked our chances a lot better there.

The Seahawks' injury depleted defense was not as good as the Patriots' healthy defense, and we put up 30 on them. I think our front 7 could have stopped their run game, and I don't think Russel Wilson and the group of receivers they had would have outscored us. Remember, our defense shut down Roethlisberger and their elite WR corps the week earlier, and they have a better offense than the Seahawks. The reason we got torched against the Patriots is because their strength is the quick passing game, so they took advantage of our depleted secondary before our dominant pass rush could get there. The Seahawks didn't have quick receivers like that, nor did they have Gronk. Our defense matched up much better with them than NE, and our offense could have put up some points on their banged up defense.

[steelcityraven]

This is an example of what I have been saying for a few years now. Nobody is good enough to be successful as a DB in dean pees system! Cary WIlliams started 10 games this season, for what is widely considered the best DBackfield in the NFL... and like Luke Jones stated... signing him would not be an upgrade for us! Wait... let me say that another way... We have one of the worst DB's in the NFL... the seahags have one of the best... One of the consistent starters for them is not better then ours??? then why are they the best and we are the worst????? bc THEY could cut Richard Sherman and we sign him and he will struggle here! Cary had some obvious success there... maybe not what they thought was worth the amount they were paying him (which is why he was cut) but still had some obvious success.... and he'd probably be the # 4 CB here???? and we are horrid at stopping the pass???? If we have talent better the CWillaims (and we do) why cant they out perform CWilliams????? We could say overall supporting cast but then we need to take the entire defense into account and we have one of the top front 7s in the NFL... so its more then supporting cast... its a failing system!

[steelcityraven]

I wonder if the answer is to re-sing KO and slide him out to T???? He is a better option then both and while he has been injury prone also... he is way more reliable then Monroe... We keep Monroe... avoiding the cap hit for valued depth and have Urschel and Jensen who both can play G (especially Urschel). If we draft somebody it does not need to be a first rounder at this point... but someone who could develop into the starter as we (financially) phase Eugene out! (not 2016)

[WNC-Raven]

This is an example of what I have been saying for a few years now. Nobody is good enough to be successful as a DB in dean pees system! Cary WIlliams started 10 games this season, for what is widely considered the best DBackfield in the NFL... and like Luke Jones stated... signing him would not be an upgrade for us! Wait... let me say that another way... We have one of the worst DB's in the NFL... the seahags have one of the best... One of the consistent starters for them is not better then ours??? then why are they the best and we are the worst????? bc THEY could cut Richard Sherman and we sign him and he will struggle here! Cary had some obvious success there... maybe not what they thought was worth the amount they were paying him (which is why he was cut) but still had some obvious success.... and he'd probably be the # 4 CB here???? and we are horrid at stopping the pass???? If we have talent better the CWillaims (and we do) why cant they out perform CWilliams????? We could say overall supporting cast but then we need to take the entire defense into account and we have one of the top front 7s in the NFL... so its more then supporting cast... its a failing system!

I read somewhere that over the past 5 or 6 games we have the top 5 secondary in the NFL in terms of points/yards allowed. They are not as bad as they were when we ended last year or began this one. If that is true then why would we need Cary Williams?

[rmcjacket23]

I wonder if the answer is to re-sing KO and slide him out to T???? He is a better option then both and while he has been injury prone also... he is way more reliable then Monroe... We keep Monroe... avoiding the cap hit for valued depth and have Urschel and Jensen who both can play G (especially Urschel). If we draft somebody it does not need to be a first rounder at this point... but someone who could develop into the starter as we (financially) phase Eugene out! (not 2016)

KO basically makes that decision though. If he thinks he's going to be resigned as a LT with the Ravens, then he should rightfully ask for LT money. That's realistically $6-7M a year, which is probably at least half of the total amount we will have to spend.

 

If not, he can easily go get $5M+ per year to go play guard for another team, so he kind of holds all the cards here.

 

I still don't expect him to return. It'd be an awfully big gamble on our teams part to pay him even $5M+ a year to play a position without any clue whether he'll be any good at that position or not.

[trevorsteadman]

We won't sign KO because we have our future left guard in Urschel who has played just as good in his starts at the position. That cap can be better used at another position.

[RavensBaltimore]

Even when Monroe plays, he's not worth the money. The problem is, if we cut him, we don't have a viable option to replace him. It will be hard to get a good FA LT for the amount of money we'd save by cutting him, it would be a big gamble to depend on a rookie at that position, and Hurst doesn't look like a good option either.

[billiejean]

OK.... the PFF Grades.... now I can actually say that I can discount them as being somewhat of a non-factor for me... Giving Crockett a -2 when he goes down in the first quarter with an injury wouldn't necessarily constitute a negative grade in my book. Just sayin guys.

He didn't get a bad PFF grade because he went out with an injury.  He got a bad PFF grade because when he was on the field he didn't do well.  "Didn't do well" can be missing a block, or running a bad rout, or even dropping the ball.  PFF dedicates two employees to grade every single snap that a player takes in a game.  Each snap is graded on a scale from -2 to 2.  These numbers are added up after the game, and the total is the PFF grade for that game.  Its a pretty good system to evaluate players because every snap is looked at. I didn't do a great job explaining it but this link pretty much sums up everything.     https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

[Kwilliams84]

We need to trade monroe for a third round pick.

[Kwilliams84]

Lets draft hargreaves in the 1st round we need this kid true shutdown corner back to go across j. smith and 2nd round we need to get a wr like tyler boyd or mike williams or Will fuller. 3rd round get a pass rusher and we need to trade a couple 4th round comp picks to move down to 3rd round and get a oline man.

[billiejean]

Lets draft hargreaves in the 1st round we need this kid true shutdown corner back to go across j. smith and 2nd round we need to get a wr like tyler boyd or mike williams or Will fuller. 3rd round get a pass rusher and we need to trade a couple 4th round comp picks to move down to 3rd round and get a oline man.

Do you like Hargraves over Ramsey?  I think they're both going to be shut down corners and at this point I don't know who iI would pick.  Does anyone else have some insight on this?

Edited December 8, 2015 by billiejean

[rmcjacket23]

We need to trade monroe for a third round pick.

And who plays LT?

[drillem]

Who's left? This bunch of has-beens ain't cuttin' it.

[The Greek]

cannot trade comp picks until 2017 draft. if we can get rid of monroes contract for a 5th or 6th rd pick in the off season than do it. to risky to hope that he will be 100% and not miss several games next season. we need him to be at his best especially with flacco coming off a knee injury

[rmcjacket23]

cannot trade comp picks until 2017 draft. if we can get rid of monroes contract for a 5th or 6th rd pick in the off season than do it. to risky to hope that he will be 100% and not miss several games next season. we need him to be at his best especially with flacco coming off a knee injury

So, again, who plays LT?

[The Greek]

hate to lose osemele like we lost ben grubbs years ago but he will most likely be a top 2 guard in free agency and will get paid. our off season needs in this order via draft/free agency or trade imo 1)LT 2)OLB/PASS RUSHER 3)upgrade receiver corps 4) SECONDARY

[The Greek]

So, again, who plays LT?

that is the front offices problem to figure out. use our top 5 pick on the best LT available and sign a veteran who will not cost us that much as insurance like they found in mckinney years ago

Edited December 8, 2015 by The Greek

[Maryland]

cannot trade comp picks until 2017 draft. if we can get rid of monroes contract for a 5th or 6th rd pick in the off season than do it. to risky to hope that he will be 100% and not miss several games next season. we need him to be at his best especially with flacco coming off a knee injury

Why would anyone give away a draft pick for an injury-prone LT with a bad contract? Monroe will either take a pay cut or get cut.

[January J]

I knew this season wouldn't be that good and is why I was very upset about our season being thrown away with that very very very bad pass against the pats! "NONE" of the things happening this season would hurt as much if the Ravens won that SB last season because it was rite there for the taking! We need WRs and O Linemen and another "MOBILE" QB with an arm, especially since Joe is having surgery and will "NEVER" run the ball in such a physical division where they will go after him surrounding him and getting plenty of sacks! Smh pocket passing QBs in a league where the D Line are so big and "FAST" you need wheels on your QB to take pressure off the O Linemen because they can't hold these dudes forever or do some think the Ravens are the only team that can get to the QB and no one else can! Smh

what happened to our savior Matt schaub buddy? Thought he was the answer

[757RavensFan]

To be honest, I don't see too many ways where we would have beaten the Seahawks last season. Get to the SB? Sure, but I didn't see us winning it.

 

Also not a given we would have beaten Indy in their building, though I liked our chances a lot better there.

 

 I did a post in a Ravens FB group I'm in and I stated we would have lost to the Seahawks if we made it to the SB.  

[rmcjacket23]

that is the front offices problem to figure out. use our top 5 pick on the best LT available and sign a veteran who will not cost us that much as insurance like they found in mckinney years ago

So we just pass on any of the good corners, pass rushers, WRs, etc. just to sign somebody who probably won't be better than Monroe for at least another year or two?

 

My best guess currently would be that the FO's solution to the problem is to plan to start Monroe at LT in 2016 and add depth, either in FA or in the draft. 

 

As a wise man once told me... don't ever come to me with a problem unless you've got a solution. Passing the back off as "its not my job to figure out the solution" is just lazy.

[raven4evr]

I agree with Luke Jones...

[The Mom Gene]

He didn't get a bad PFF grade because he went out with an injury.  He got a bad PFF grade because when he was on the field he didn't do well.  "Didn't do well" can be missing a block, or running a bad rout, or even dropping the ball.  PFF dedicates two employees to grade every single snap that a player takes in a game.  Each snap is graded on a scale from -2 to 2.  These numbers are added up after the game, and the total is the PFF grade for that game.  Its a pretty good system to evaluate players because every snap is looked at. I didn't do a great job explaining it but this link pretty much sums up everything.     https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

That was my point...  He made a great play... got injured making the play, and then went out and didn't come back in.  1st quarter.

[billiejean]

That was my point...  He made a great play... got injured making the play, and then went out and didn't come back in.  1st quarter.

Sure but his PFF grade wasn't based soley on that play.  It was based on all of the plays (not very many) where he was in the game before he went out.  Even the plays where he was just blocking or running decoy routes.

Edited December 8, 2015 by billiejean