If/When we get a new DC how would that effect our draft strategy

[BSHU_Miami]

When we get a new DC they may want to new scheme to fit our players. Which players do you expect we'll be more leaning towards if we have a Jim Scwartz, Mike pettine, DC.

[Maryland]

Can we even be sure Pees is getting fired anymore? The Flacco injury, coupled with all the rest, might be enough of an excuse to save everyone's jobs. Plus the defense has actually played average since the Bye.

 

As to your question, I think the only way it really affects the draft is if you switch to a 4-3. Then you need some more athletic LBs. We still need a FS, CB, and edge rusher regardless of who our DC is. Getting some depth at DE and ILB would be nice too.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Maryland

[usmccharles]

I dont think it would change anything.  Oz has his strategy for BPA and i think he would alter it for an incoming coach

[RaineV1]

I think a new DC will have some input, but probably won't be a deciding factor for who we take in the first two rounds. After that they might have more say. For example, Kubiak is probably a big reason why we drafted Gilmore. So we could pick some people based on the DC's scheme later on.

[JustinB]

Can we even be sure Pees is getting fired anymore? The Flacco injury, coupled with all the rest, might be enough of an excuse to save everyone's jobs. Plus the defense has actually played average since the Bye.

 

As to your question, I think the only way it really affects the draft is if you switch to a 4-3. Then you need some more athletic LBs. We still need a FS, CB, and edge rusher regardless of who our DC is. Getting some depth at DE and ILB would be nice too.

yeah but look who they've played against 

[JoeyFlex5]

i wouldnt want to see a 4-3 DC, i think the 3-4 is still the way of the modern NFL and the benefits of a 3-4 far outweigh the benefits of a typically more vanilla 4-3. 

 

however, as it stands right now, i think we have pieces for a 4-3, and it would take pressure off of ozzie to find OLBs and he could just stick to finding an edge rushing DE which is much easier to find. we just dont have the OLBs to run an effective 3-4 since sizzle went down. also i think brandon williams is as natural a NT as youll ever find, i like him much better in a 3-4, and NTs are very hard to find so once you find one you need to build around him, not change it up and devalue his skillset. to compete for the rest of the year a 4-3 seems it would be the preferred lineup, but when sizzle returns next year i think 3-4 is still clearly the best choice

[Dubs]

I can't see it changing our draft strategy up as I cannot see us hiring a DC who isn't in line with how we usually run our front 7--I think that comes from Ozzie and what players he selects for the team in the draft and in FA who are usually bigger guys with the capability of two gapping. We have too much talent to move away from a 34 in the way we are running it imo. Carl Davis and Brandon Williams are perfect pieces up front, I like Mosley more in a 34--not sure he has the coverage ability to do what guys like Keuchly do and he will be schemed against for good matches from guys like Gio, Bell and Duke Johnson even more than what he already is..and we have no proven WILL.

 

At this point I don't even see us firing Pees...I really hope we do as I expect Pettine to be gone and I think he is the perfect fit

[GrimCoconut]

I don't want it because I see our DL as the strength of the team. Switching would mean we'd only likely have two DL on the field at a time.

With that said, I'd love the move if we draft Nkemdiche. He'd be able to play RE and that could provide devastating results.

[GrimCoconut]

i wouldnt want to see a 4-3 DC, i think the 3-4 is still the way of the modern NFL and the benefits of a 3-4 far outweigh the benefits of a typically more vanilla 4-3.

however, as it stands right now, i think we have pieces for a 4-3, and it would take pressure off of ozzie to find OLBs and he could just stick to finding an edge rushing DE which is much easier to find. we just dont have the OLBs to run an effective 3-4 since sizzle went down. also i think brandon williams is as natural a NT as youll ever find, i like him much better in a 3-4, and NTs are very hard to find so once you find one you need to build around him, not change it up and devalue his skillset. to compete for the rest of the year a 4-3 seems it would be the preferred lineup, but when sizzle returns next year i think 3-4 is still clearly the best choice

The modern NFL seems to favor a one-gap 4-3 over 3-4 hybrid, which is very much what Wade Phillips runs. I think that suits our personnel. We also run that system, but we ask our DL to two gap, which just isn't as effective anymore.

[ravefan52]

The modern NFL seems to favor a one-gap 4-3 over 3-4 hybrid, which is very much what Wade Phillips runs. I think that suits our personnel. We also run that system, but we ask our DL to two gap, which just isn't as effective anymore.

Wade Phillips defense is my favorite. The Seahawks 4-3 under is great as well if you have the right players.

[rmw10]

Wade Phillips defense is my favorite. The Seahawks 4-3 under is great as well if you have the right players.

I love the 4-3 under. Great combination of the big bodied DL and athletic LB that I like.

[GrimCoconut]

I love the 4-3 under. Great combination of the big bodied DL and athletic LB that I like.

Wade Phillips defense is my favorite. The Seahawks 4-3 under is great as well if you have the right players.

Yeah, I also love the 4-3 under. It can be a really effective alignment. We're only missing a piece or two from executing it.

[JoeyFlex5]

Wade Phillips defense has always been my favorite too. I don't like the 2 gap 3-4 when all the DL runs 2 gap, it cuts down on interior pressure which is devastating, but having 4 linebackers creates a more unpredictable playbook. Lebeaus zone blitz is a great example of what I mean. The way mattison ran our 3-4 was a disgrace, it's not meant to be a vanilla scheme. 4-3 just doesn't allow for quite as much creativity I feel

[52520Andrew]

I love the 4-3 under. Great combination of the big bodied DL and athletic LB that I like.

That defense is very similar to what I like to do on DAF, pretty fun

[izvoodoo]

especially now, it's just BPA.  Not hard to imagine a position where an exceptional rookie couldn't start.  

[gabefergy]

The modern NFL seems to favor a one-gap 4-3 over 3-4 hybrid, which is very much what Wade Phillips runs. I think that suits our personnel. We also run that system, but we ask our DL to two gap, which just isn't as effective anymore.

If two-gappping isn't effective how come our defense is one of the best against the run in the NFL?

[gabefergy]

We really do run a hybrid and most front 7 players can work in either a 4-3 or 3-4. I don't really think it makes much of a difference at all, coaching schemes are flexible to personnel.

[GrimCoconut]

If two-gappping isn't effective how come our defense is one of the best against the run in the NFL?

I never said it was ineffective. I said it wasn't as effective. It's still good and is useful. It's just not my preferred style of defense and I don't think it's as effective as the one-gap in the modern NFL. It obviously has its uses, though, and I never said it was worthless. It obviously works.

[Winchester]

I dont think it would change anything.  Oz has his strategy for BPA and i think he would alter it for an incoming coach

Elam,pro day Perriman, maxx,Brown,Upshaw,Brooks,Davis were BPA's?? I would be surprised. I would imagine more so need picks. However Maxx has loads of untapped potential once he gets in shape and iam sure management knew that.

[Winchester]

Why would pettine want to come here to be DC?? Why would anybody??

[usmccharles]

I dont think it would change anything. Oz has his strategy for BPA and i think he would alter it for an incoming coach

Correction, I don't think he would

Edited December 8, 2015 by usmccharles

[gabefergy]

I never said it was ineffective. I said it wasn't as effective. It's still good and is useful. It's just not my preferred style of defense and I don't think it's as effective as the one-gap in the modern NFL. It obviously has its uses, though, and I never said it was worthless. It obviously works.

I think personnel has a lot more to do with how good a defense is than scheme.

[JoeyFlex5]

I never said it was ineffective. I said it wasn't as effective. It's still good and is useful. It's just not my preferred style of defense and I don't think it's as effective as the one-gap in the modern NFL. It obviously has its uses, though, and I never said it was worthless. It obviously works.

it's ineffective in the pass rush and pees still likes to dial it up an expect lesser olbs to make the play while we get little to no interior pressure, that's one huge problem I have with pees

[gabefergy]

it's ineffective in the pass rush and pees still likes to dial it up an expect lesser olbs to make the play while we get little to no interior pressure, that's one huge problem I have with pees

It has literally nothing to do with the pass-rush. Gap principles are specific to run defense. What exactly is Pees supposed to do dial up a pass-rush besides sending extra defenders? Interior pressure is all about DTs winning one on one match-ups or being able to split double teams, they aren't two-gapping against the pass.

 

When he had players like McPhee, he put them in excellent position to win either as a blitzer or as an interior DL. He has tried using Upshaw and Za'Darius in this role and they just haven't been effective. Jernigan has really been the only DL who can get a somewhat consistent pass-rush on the interior. 

Edited December 9, 2015 by gabefergy

[JoeyFlex5]

It has literally nothing to do with the pass-rush. Gap principles are specific to run defense. What exactly is Pees supposed to do dial up a pass-rush besides sending extra defenders? Interior pressure is all about DTs winning one on one match-ups or being able to split double teams, they aren't two-gapping against the pass.

 

When he had players like McPhee, he put them in excellent position to win either as a blitzer or as an interior DL. He has tried using Upshaw and Za'Darius in this role and they just haven't been effective. Jernigan has really been the only DL who can get a somewhat consistent pass-rush on the interior. 

i dont think were seeing eye to eye here. 2 gap scheme has alot to do with eating space and occupying blockers, while the 1 gap scheme is about quick penetration, my point was that 2 gap schemes are ineffective in pass rush because they dont create penetration unless you have a player there specifically to take advantage of the occupied blockers, which you already referred to with mcphee, we could 2 gap a DT in the pass rush because we had mcphee to capitalize, giving him a lane to burst into the backfield for the pressure, with lesser OLBs like what we have now, there is no way to utilize a 2gapper effectively in the pass rush. 

 

and i know you know what youre talking about, im not tryna educate anyone here, you just didnt seem to understand the point i was trying to make

[GrimCoconut]

It has literally nothing to do with the pass-rush. Gap principles are specific to run defense. What exactly is Pees supposed to do dial up a pass-rush besides sending extra defenders? Interior pressure is all about DTs winning one on one match-ups or being able to split double teams, they aren't two-gapping against the pass.

 

When he had players like McPhee, he put them in excellent position to win either as a blitzer or as an interior DL. He has tried using Upshaw and Za'Darius in this role and they just haven't been effective. Jernigan has really been the only DL who can get a somewhat consistent pass-rush on the interior. 

I don't know if you confused me or if I am just brain-dead at the moment from studying, but you have honestly lost me here. What you said makes no sense to me. My understanding of gap principles is that the two-gap principle makes for a better run defense but it does come at the expense of the pass rush to an extent, seeing as how the defensive linemen must read the offense before engaging their gaps, which slows the pass rush some. The two-gap is for run defense, that's true. That isn't to say the one-gap can't work against he run, but it does mean that there are more gaps open and as a result, more bodies must occupy those gaps. 

[gabefergy]

I don't know if you confused me or if I am just brain-dead at the moment from studying, but you have honestly lost me here. What you said makes no sense to me. My understanding of gap principles is that the two-gap principle makes for a better run defense but it does come at the expense of the pass rush to an extent, seeing as how the defensive linemen must read the offense before engaging their gaps, which slows the pass rush some. The two-gap is for run defense, that's true. That isn't to say the one-gap can't work against he run, but it does mean that there are more gaps open and as a result, more bodies must occupy those gaps. 

Gap assignments,  2 gap or 1 gap, are for run-defense, not pass-rush lanes. Now designed blitzes will have specific gaps to hit for the blitzing players, but that's a different scenario entirely.

 

The whole concept of 2-gapping is a run-defense concept. It has no relevance to rushing the passer. Once a DT or DE reads pass, you attack 1 gap to pressure the QB. 

 

I guess you could argue on some plays, PA in particular, having a 2 gap defense will slow down the pass-rush more than a defense that is designed to hit 1 gap, but on the vast majority of plays it has no affect on the pass-rush at all.

 

Considering that the Ravens are nickel on roughyl 60% of the the snaps they aren't even playing in a 3-4 front on most passing downs anyway so the effect of having 2-gap principles when rushing the passer in miniscule.

[gabefergy]

i dont think were seeing eye to eye here. 2 gap scheme has alot to do with eating space and occupying blockers, while the 1 gap scheme is about quick penetration, my point was that 2 gap schemes are ineffective in pass rush because they dont create penetration unless you have a player there specifically to take advantage of the occupied blockers, which you already referred to with mcphee, we could 2 gap a DT in the pass rush because we had mcphee to capitalize, giving him a lane to burst into the backfield for the pressure, with lesser OLBs like what we have now, there is no way to utilize a 2gapper effectively in the pass rush. 

 

and i know you know what youre talking about, im not tryna educate anyone here, you just didnt seem to understand the point i was trying to make

You understand what 2-gapping is yes?

 

You have a DT or DE lined up over a single OL or TE. He is responsible for both gaps to either side of him in run defense. In terms of rushing the passer, maintaining gap integrity has zero benefit. Ravens players play the pass the same as any other scheme. Bull-rush or slide by your blocker to get after the QB.

[gabefergy]

My overall point is, I don't think scheme is going to make a difference. The Ravens have a strong run defense because of Brandon Williams at NT as opposed to when they were floundering with the like of Terrance Cody.

 

The pass-rush has fallen off because no Suggs or McPhee. Last year in the same scheme the pass-rush was one of the best in the NFL.

 

The Broncos have a great defense because they have elite talent across the board. They were great last year too before Wade Philips got there, and Wade Philips scheme has had mixed results.

 

The Falcons, the Jags, and the Seahawks all play a very similar style defense. One team is way better because of the players they have.

[JoeyFlex5]

You understand what 2-gapping is yes?

You have a DT or DE lined up over a single OL or TE. He is responsible for both gaps to either side of him in run defense. In terms of rushing the passer, maintaining gap integrity has zero benefit. Ravens players play the pass the same as any other scheme. Bull-rush or slide by your blocker to get after the QB.

yes I know what 2 gapping is and I know lining up IN the gap typically produces much quicker pressure. What are you even trying to get at? Do you even have a point or did you just want to butt in and smugly insult my intelligence for the hell of it?