new mock draft - week 13 standings

[JoeyFlex5]

What made you pick Hargreaves over Ramsey?

ramsey scares me with this high of a pick. Too much risk for top5, regardless of his ceiling. His range on the back end is in question because he only seems to make plays up close, he is undisciplined, plays rogue at times, can be a penalty magnet and a sideline clown.. I like his fire and I actually had him neck and neck with bosa at one point, but I think he is too risky for a top 5 pick after looking into it more. But if it means anything I have him rated 4th after tunsil, bosa, and vh3 Edited December 13, 2015 by JoeyFlex5

[January J]

Vernon Hargreaves?

 

Really?

 

OMG....Matt Elam II and not cuz hes a Gator

 

He's got holes.  Watch the Alabama game....but he doesn't have reliable hands.

 

Not in the first round.

the guy is younger than Maxx Williams. Players do improve.

[Maryland]

Yannick will definitely drop because of his poor 40 time. He has a projected 4.70. That's not the typical speedy rusher teams are looking for these days. We will steal him in the 3rd leaving and bring in Tyler Boyd with the second round pick. Doctson, Treadwell, Michael Thomas and Corey Coleman are all ranked higher than Boyd in my books so its a probable Boyd will be there with our high second round pick. The DUI also sets him back.

It's a good thing (or perhaps a bad thing if we want him to fall) that 40 times are almost completely irrelevant for pass-rushers. 

[Cillmatic]

Vernon Hargreaves?

Really?

OMG....Matt Elam II and not cuz hes a Gator

He's got holes. Watch the Alabama game....but he doesn't have reliable hands.

Not in the first round.

Dude, if there's a potential shutdown cornerback in the draft no one would give a rats-butt about "reliable hands".

[JoeyFlex5]

Dude, if there's a potential shutdown cornerback in the draft no one would give a rats-butt about "reliable hands".

the funny part was "not in the first round" as if to say hargreaves isn't a first rounder... Lmao

[Cillmatic]

the funny part was "not in the first round" as if to say hargreaves isn't a first rounder... Lmao

Lol, I didn't even notice that

[Guest]

You're not going to need Team Films for this chore guys.

 

Plug the Name "Vernon Hargreaves Highlights Youtube" into your browser.  Use secondary searches with "Film" and just "Vernon Hargreaves".

 

Watch the films.  What you will see is a guy that has caught a fair share of over and under thrown balls.  You will see some decent tackles and some shooting star missed tackles. 

 

You will see a corner that is far too hands on for the NFL.  Count the number of highlights where passes are defensed that would be flagged in the NFL.

 

You will see a guy that does NOT come down with the ball in a contested spot. You will see a guy abused by large WR's in well thrown ball situations.

 

Lastly you will see a guy overmatched in both Alabama games. 

 

My vote is a Resounding NO NO NO.............not in the early rounds.

 

Matt Elam II

 

BAP....He's not a BAP pick.  He's a we don't trust our corners pick.  Another big concern is corner is not our most needy area and he is not BAP

Who gives a damn if he doesn't have amazing hands? Give me a CB that's amazing in coverage any day of the week. And sure. Let's trash the what, sophomore at the time who was going against the most pro ready college WR at the time. Not like his game is capable of improving or anything

 

I'm not ready to commit yet, but I'll give you the most pro ready CB before the draft. It's not Hargreaves.

this. How Anyone can actually think hargreaves is some kind of bum is beyond me, likely the same kind of people who think 1 extra year of mediocre play from boldin was worth 7mil and flacco should have been traded instead

 

I was addressing Hargreaves...bad choice...but if some still don't fully understand how our Woe Train started they are not watching closely and that's the point. Lastly, though I understand Flacco's weaknesses I never suggested we keep Boldin and jettison Flacco.  Attention to detail is what I'm talking about and if you are missing some, you're not all alone.

the guy is younger than Maxx Williams. Players do improve.

 

 

Dude, if there's a potential shutdown cornerback in the draft no one would give a rats-butt about "reliable hands".

Edited December 13, 2015 by Danny D

[January J]

You're not going to need Team Films for this chore guys.

Plug the Name "Vernon Hargreaves Highlights Youtube" into your browser. Use secondary searches with "Film" and just "Vernon Hargreaves".

Watch the films. What you will see is a guy that has caught a fair share of over and under thrown balls. You will see some decent tackles and some shooting star missed tackles.

You will see a corner that is far too hands on for the NFL. Count the number of highlights where passes are defensed that would be flagged in the NFL.

You will see a guy that does NOT come down with the ball in a contested spot. You will see a guy abused by large WR's in well thrown ball situations.

Lastly you will see a guy overmatched in both Alabama games.

My vote is a Resounding NO NO NO.............not in the early rounds.

Matt Elam II

BAP....He's not a BAP pick. He's a we don't trust our corners pick. Another big concern is corner is not our most needy area and he is not BAP

I'm not ready to commit yet, but I'll give you the most pro ready CB before the draft. It's not Hargreaves.

I was addressing Hargreaves...bad choice...but if some still don't fully understand how our Woe Train started they are not watching closely and that's the point. Lastly, though I understand Flacco's weaknesses I never suggested we keep Boldin and jettison Flacco. Attention to detail is what I'm talking about and if you are missing some, you're not all alone.

I share only a few of your concerns and Honestly I did sour on him a bit after the Alabama game but I'd still be thrilled if we got him. He has a lot of intangibles and he will only get better. And your comments about not taking him in the early round(s) (plural) is laughable. That said I am leaning a little more toward Ramsey right now mainly due to his versatility. Safety is a bigger need due to Kendricks flimsy performance this season and if we are ever in a pinch he can shoot over to corner. Just curious how do you feel about Ramsey? Edited December 13, 2015 by January J

[Guest]

I share only a few of your concerns and Honestly I did sour on him a bit after the Alabama game but I'd still be thrilled if we got him. He has a lot of intangibles and he will only get better. And your comments about not taking him in the early round(s) (plural) is laughable. That said I am leaning a little more toward Ramsey right now mainly due to his versatility. Safety is a bigger need due to Kendricks flimsy performance this season and if we are ever in a pinch he can shoot over to corner. Just curious how do you feel about Ramsey?

 

In all candor I'm not up to speed yet and want to see the big stage performances first before committing, but you've got good eyes if you saw the holes in the Alabama game.  That was big stage, better competition which is what awaits in the NFL and he did not acquit himself well.

 

As far as not taking him early. You make your own board. If a guy isn't good enough to take until round 3 you don't take him until round 3 and if he's gone by the time the 3rd round comes around then you evaluate your decision upon how he produces. I'll stick with my 3rd round evaluation. You can evaluate me on that later.  Some fair evaluation of our draft history is also in order.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Danny D

[January J]

In all candor I'm not up to speed yet and want to see the big stage performances first before committing, but you've got good eyes if you saw the holes in the Alabama game. That was big stage, better competition which is what awaits in the NFL and he did not acquit himself well.

I did a review of His whole performance in the Alabama game in one of these threads. It was the first full game Of his I actually watched thoroughly while paying full attention to him on every play and taking notes. I wasn't too impressed- but I like to judge players off of their full body of work. But yes how players perform in those big games certainly do matter, so makes a lot of sense to wait until after the bowl games and what not. Edited December 13, 2015 by January J

[Cillmatic]

Hargreaves height is just a minor inconvenience, he's normally great at high pointing the ball so he'll be safe in most situations and in our division the best WR's are around his height. If you don't like Hargreaves because of his size then you shouldn't like Revis. One of the deep jump balls he allowed against Alabama was largely due to the fact that the safety decided to go blind at the worst possible moment.

[Guest]

Hargreaves height is just a minor inconvenience, he's normally great at high pointing the ball so he'll be safe in most situations and in our division the best WR's are around his height. If you don't like Hargreaves because of his size then you shouldn't like Revis. One of the deep jump balls he allowed against Alabama was largely due to the fact that the safety decided to go blind at the worst possible moment.

 

He's listed at 5'11" but reports are he plays smaller.  The films confirm he plays small. He can jump. I bet he pops off a pretty good vertical jump at the combine, but he doesn't jump well running.

 

He's got better hands than Elam, but his tackling is remarkably similar.

 

If we take him in the first round I'm going to die laughing.

[January J]

He's listed at 5'11" but reports are he plays smaller. The films confirm he plays small. He can jump. I bet he pops off a pretty good vertical jump at the combine, but he doesn't jump well running.

He's got better hands than Elam, but his tackling is remarkably similar.

If we take him in the first round I'm going to die laughing.

I certainly wouldn't see anything funny about it. We could do much much worse, and in actuality he would be the smartest pick- besides tunsil ofcourse. That being said a lot can change In the next 4 months. Taking a guy like treadwell would be a mistake. Edited December 13, 2015 by January J

[Cillmatic]

He's listed at 5'11" but reports are he plays smaller. The films confirm he plays small. He can jump. I bet he pops off a pretty good vertical jump at the combine, but he doesn't jump well running.

He's got better hands than Elam, but his tackling is remarkably similar.

If we take him in the first round I'm going to die laughing.

Again with the hands, who cares? If you want to disagree with virtually EVERY expert and analysis then ok. If you think Hargreaves is a horrible football player I don't see room to reason with you. Edited December 13, 2015 by Cillmatic

[Guest]

Again with the hands, who cares? If you want to disagree with virtually EVERY expert and analysis then ok. If you think Hargreaves is a horrible football player I don't see room to reason with you.

 

The parallels with Elam are really striking.  They jump out and yet here's folks saying "The Experts" can't be wrong.

 

This is a little corner that does not wrap up. He's a body tackler and he can't jump on the fly to overcome his stature. He's ok with an under or overthrown ball right to him, but he's not a defender and lacks critical ball skills.

 

I'd like to remind everyone here that many rated Elam the #1 Safety in the draft, including Oz who said he was at "The very top of his board".  In hindsight, where do you think Elam should have been drafted?  That's the operative question. 

 

I believe Hargreaves can be drafted but certainly not early.  That would be comical.

 

Even Oz will see the parallels, Hargreaves will not be our first round selection.

 

Now I'm off to my Fantasy Football team.  Ok...I'm a wildcard, but my team is loaded with young players, I'm not stacked on tried and true veterans.  Stephon Diggs is on my team, but he's been sitting due to Teddy Bridgewaters' deficiencies. Adrian Peterson doesn't help, but Teddy is an anchor. I've got Blake Bortles and Allen Hurns and must decide if Hurns is fit.  I've got Odell Beckham and have had him since last year Before he played a down.  I've Tyler Eifert, whose a bit soft but the leading TD maker among receivers.  I have little school Thomas Rawls on my team.

 

 I think I evaluate Defenders just as well. My Defender is Kuechly and I'm lucky to have got him. Unfortunately defense isn't as big a factor in FF.

 

I'm looking forward to how Hargreaves pans out. It should be entertaining.

 

Go Bold Team!

Edited December 13, 2015 by Danny D

[January J]

The parallels with Elam are really striking.  They jump out and yet here's folks saying "The Experts" can't be wrong.

 

This is a little corner that does not wrap up. He's a body tackler and he can't jump on the fly to overcome his stature. He's ok with an under or overthrown ball right to him, but he's not a defender and lacks critical ball skills.

 

I'd like to remind everyone here that many rated Elam the #1 Safety in the draft, including Oz who said he was at "The very top of his board".  In hindsight, where do you think Elam should have been drafted?  That's the operative question. 

 

I believe Hargreaves can be drafted but certainly not early.  That would be comical.

 

Even Oz will see the parallels, Hargreaves will not be our first round selection.

comical is saying he won't go in the first round. And you even said first few rounds.

[Guest]

comical is saying he won't go in the first round. And you even said first few rounds.

 

No...I didn't.

 

I said taking him in the first two rounds would be a monumental mistake.  Made no statement as to where he will be selected by other teams.

[January J]

In all candor I'm not up to speed yet and want to see the big stage performances first before committing, but you've got good eyes if you saw the holes in the Alabama game.  That was big stage, better competition which is what awaits in the NFL and he did not acquit himself well.

 

As far as not taking him early. You make your own board. If a guy isn't good enough to take until round 3 you don't take him until round 3 and if he's gone by the time the 3rd round comes around then you evaluate your decision upon how he produces. I'll stick with my 3rd round evaluation. You can evaluate me on that later.  Some fair evaluation of our draft history is also in order.

[ravefan52]

What?!? Hargreaves is nothing like Elam. He's great in coverage and a good, willing tackler for a CB.

[BmoreBird22]

yeah i thought about carl lawson as well, i like him better actually, but im under the impression that he returns for another year and if he stays healthy he is a lock for top 20, hes actually my favorite "true" 3-4olb in college right now

Apparently some scouts already view him as a lock for the top 15 and as the second best 4-3 DE in the draft.

[ravefan52]

Apparently some scouts already view him as a lock for the top 15 and as the second best 4-3 DE in the draft.

Without the injury concerns, I see him as a top 10 player in this draft.

[BmoreBird22]

Without the injury concerns, I see him as a top 10 player in this draft.

I think he's gotta develop more than the bull rush, but he's on his way to being a very good NFL player.

[GrimCoconut]

yeah i thought about carl lawson as well, i like him better actually, but im under the impression that he returns for another year and if he stays healthy he is a lock for top 20, hes actually my favorite "true" 3-4olb in college right now

I think he's gotta develop more than the bull rush, but he's on his way to being a very good NFL player.

Without the injury concerns, I see him as a top 10 player in this draft.

I have more games to watch, but the games I saw of Carl Lawson this year showed me a player with some nice pass rush ability, but I am concerned about his instincts. He's slow to react at times and that's a concern of mine. I'm not sure if he has those football instincts or IQ. I'll watch more games, but I am worried about his ability to overcome that at the next level. Being slow-to-react is something that's not really easy to overcome as a professional. 

[BmoreBird22]

I have more games to watch, but the games I saw of Carl Lawson this year showed me a player with some nice pass rush ability, but I am concerned about his instincts. He's slow to react at times and that's a concern of mine. I'm not sure if he has those football instincts or IQ. I'll watch more games, but I am worried about his ability to overcome that at the next level. Being slow-to-react is something that's not really easy to overcome as a professional.

I don't think it's either. He's rarely out of position and he's never fooled by fakes or misdirections. He's a very smart, high IQ player.

The issue is that Clemson has a massive playbook for their defensive ends that require they be well versed against the pass and run and so he's probably trying to take it all in and process that massive playbook

[GrimCoconut]

I don't think it's either. He's rarely out of position and he's never fooled by fakes or misdirections. He's a very smart, high IQ player.

The issue is that Clemson has a massive playbook for their defensive ends that require they be well versed against the pass and run and so he's probably trying to take it all in and process that massive playbook

Yeah. I'm reserving judgment right now. That's just my initial impression after two games. I need to see more. I just didn't like what I saw in those two games. 

[JoeyFlex5]

I think he's gotta develop more than the bull rush, but he's on his way to being a very good NFL player.

were talking about carl from auburn, it seems youre thinking about shaq from clemson

[ravefan52]

were talking about carl from auburn, it seems youre thinking about shaq from clemson

I think he's gotta develop more than the bull rush, but he's on his way to being a very good NFL player.

 

Ya my comments were about Carl Lawson, not Shaq.

Edited December 14, 2015 by ravefan52

[BmoreBird22]

Too many players named Lawson...

[sflegend89]

The parallels with Elam are really striking.  They jump out and yet here's folks saying "The Experts" can't be wrong.

 

This is a little corner that does not wrap up. He's a body tackler and he can't jump on the fly to overcome his stature. He's ok with an under or overthrown ball right to him, but he's not a defender and lacks critical ball skills.

 

I'd like to remind everyone here that many rated Elam the #1 Safety in the draft, including Oz who said he was at "The very top of his board".  In hindsight, where do you think Elam should have been drafted?  That's the operative question. 

 

I believe Hargreaves can be drafted but certainly not early.  That would be comical.

 

Even Oz will see the parallels, Hargreaves will not be our first round selection.

 

Now I'm off to my Fantasy Football team.  Ok...I'm a wildcard, but my team is loaded with young players, I'm not stacked on tried and true veterans.  Stephon Diggs is on my team, but he's been sitting due to Teddy Bridgewaters' deficiencies. Adrian Peterson doesn't help, but Teddy is an anchor. I've got Blake Bortles and Allen Hurns and must decide if Hurns is fit.  I've got Odell Beckham and have had him since last year Before he played a down.  I've Tyler Eifert, whose a bit soft but the leading TD maker among receivers.  I have little school Thomas Rawls on my team.

 

 I think I evaluate Defenders just as well. My Defender is Kuechly and I'm lucky to have got him. Unfortunately defense isn't as big a factor in FF.

 

I'm looking forward to how Hargreaves pans out. It should be entertaining.

 

Go Bold Team!

 

They don't even play the same position -__-

 

Sorry but that is a terrible comparison, if you want a Florida comparison for VH3 how about Joe Haden.. you know a guy who actually plays the same position and has a similar build and skill set. What is similar about VH3 and Elam besides their height and college? It's a ridiculous comparison. VH3 is a former track and field athlete, his agility and athleticism is on another level than Elam's. Tackling matters like 10x more for a Safety than a corner, if VH3 can blanket WR's all game I really don't care if he's not a great tackler.

 

Elam was never projected as a top 20 pick much less a top 5 pick.. there is a massive difference. DB is widely considered as the best position in this entire draft as well, guys like VH3/Ramsey are the best skill position players in this entire draft class, you best believe we are looking hard at them.

Edited December 14, 2015 by sflegend89

[Robbyrobbass]

Vernon Hargreaves?

Really?

OMG....Matt Elam II and not cuz hes a Gator

He's got holes. Watch the Alabama game....but he doesn't have reliable hands.

Not in the first round.

agreement except for cooper