2016 Salary Cap & Possible Moves

[Winchester]

I know it is going to be painful letting KO walk, but the remedies you propose - getting rid of Suggs, Doom, Jimmy? (or is it Webb, I can't tell...) and Monroe .. won't allow us to sign KO. In most cases, we save little money and in others, we actually lose money with those moves. It sounds as if you want to just transfer their salaries to KO. You can't simply undo what has already been done. 

 

So - I want to ask ... we're you angry when we signed Doom in 2013, gave Suggs an extension and signed Monroe in 2014 and when we signed Jimmy this past off season? Don't answer based on where you see these guys are now - but where they were when these deals were made? If you were, then you would be in a very, very small minority.

Other than Monroe and Jimmy, of course I am not upset Suggs and Dumervil were signed. Just the way it is structured where so much money is owed even after an age where players decline.

[Tru11]

I see Suggs,Jimmy, and Daryl Smith as liabilities next year anyways, not difference makers!! And Dumervil will be OK but nothing special. Suggs and Daryl Smith are used band aids. The poor drafting is catching up to the ravens!! And their best draft pick by far in last 4 drafts everybody is saying let walk while retaining aging and declining players and erratic overrated players (jimmy' Monroe) Hard to believe I read that!!

 

the players you must get to replace them might be bigger liabilities lol

[Winchester]

the players you must get to replace them might be bigger liabilities lol

Perhaps but at least far cheaper. And the defense is not going to be any good anyways. But between signing a young player and drafting well the ravens could very well be better off with the new players.

[Winchester]

Why would I count total cost when players rarely play out the totality of their contract? That doesn't make any sense.

 

Frankly, if I looked just as GUARANTEED money, which is the only thing that matters, you're looking at way, way, way less than $10M a year on average. 

 

Sorry, that average you came up with is completely irrelevant and makes no sense. That's like thinking Joe Flacco is going to make $120M. Not anywhere close.

Real money monopoly money whatever!! Don't try and take the spotlight off the fact money is owed older declining or erratic players and it is preventing the ravens from signing young elite players!!

[rmcjacket23]

Real money monopoly money whatever!! Don't try and take the spotlight off the fact money is owed older declining or erratic players and it is preventing the ravens from signing young elite players!!

Clearly you're not knowledgeable with how contracts work. A lot of players cap figures escalate due to money paid to them IN THE PAST.

Between Suggs, Doom, Monroe and Jimmy, not a single one of those guys is making more than $7M next season.

[Tru11]

Perhaps but at least far cheaper. And the defense is not going to be any good anyways. But between signing a young player and drafting well the ravens could very well be better off with the new players.

 

far cheaper is not possible unless its someone they drafted.

 

no FA is going to come in and be far cheaper and give a similar or better production.

 

also its a huge longshot to expect a rookie to come in and play better then suggs, jimmy or daryl smith lol.

[usmccharles]

the players you must get to replace them might be bigger liabilities lol

This.  It seems the few who keep asking we get rid of the "old" players forget that someone has to step in for them.  I have no issues with the Jimmy, Suggs, Doom contracts because at the time it made perfect sense and i cant be mad at the contracts now because they aged, and are still producing.  I think Jimmy will get back to from, he is still recovering.   The argument being made is pretty laughable...but his statements normally are

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

We have all these suggestions going around like clockwork, some people want Ozzie fired, Harbaugh fired, Pees fired, Flacco cut, Tucker to walk(which I don't want. 55+ kicks are not gimmies). Sure, we'll be tight against the cap, and probably keep doing the same thing we always do. Make a few key cuts and bargin shop. We had a bad year this year(Kendrick Lewis. I'll admit I was wrong. Arrington has been misused).

This season sucks because of injuries. Hate to break it to everyone. Losing a guy like Suggs makes your whole scheme change. I'm as frustrated with Dean as the next guy, but with Suggs you can disguise blitz's and pressures, which leads to a chain reaction that makes the secondary's job easier and quite frankly.. If Suggs were here, we'd probably win more of those close games. Sure, I won't depend on him next year, he's old(Dumervil's got a few years left in the shed if he stays healthy imo... Not at an elite level but a high one). But that injury was honestly catostrophic. His replacement(ZDS) is young and raw. He has potential, but I'm not going to bank on it.

Here's what's probably going to change: Nothing. We might fire the QB coach. But I hate to break it to everyone. I'd but a pretty penny Pees is staying, which I don't want. I don't like a bend but don't break defense. But honestly.

We don't really have a say about what happens in the front office. We're not the ones who ran Cam out of town. We proabably won't run Dean out either. People will be like, "strike, send a message". That won't work. Too many of us are loyal to this team. And will watch and cheer every Sunday and occasional Monday or Thursday.

What I think is going to happen is, we'll fire one or two people(Morwhig.. We fired Zorn and he had a great year as the QB coach, and maybe the conditioning guy). We'll cut Daryl Smith, and do a June 1st cut on Dennis if he does not retire. Probably get rid of Webb. Restructure Flacco, and then bargin shop. Once again, we're going to build through the draft.

Yeah, I'm a believer in the, "fill your needs in FA and get the BPA in the draft". That's not gonna happen. We bargin shop, sometimes we win(Forsett, SSR, Daniels, Will Hill), sometimes we lose(Kendrick Lewis, Arrington), sometimes we get somewhere in the middle(Canty, Dumervil, Daryl, but Spears and Huff were there as well). Hell, the year we won the Super bowl we brought in Bobbie Williams, Corey Graham and Jacoby.

So the myth that we can't fix the issues is pure crap in my mind. We just have to play the game right. And personally. I think Arrington is staying. Sorry. Sure, we're tight against the cap, and many hate the bargin shopping thing. But it works. I don't think we change our philosophy.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

And btw. I think we're fixing the defense in both FA and the draft. We have the core on offense.

Perriman

Aiken

Givens

Camp

Maxx

Crockett

Boyle

Allen

West

Juice

We want a TE centric offense with a deep threat plugged in then fine, we're a run first team anyway. That's a young core right there, and the only thing we are really missing is that possesion WR. Which I think we can go find one in FA for cheap. Give it time to develop and grow. Go give it a better line and we could have some fun.

[usmccharles]

And btw. I think we're fixing the defense in both FA and the draft. We have the core on offense.

Perriman

Aiken

Givens

Camp

Maxx

Crockett

Boyle

Allen

West

Juice

We want a TE centric offense with a deep threat plugged in then fine, we're a run first team anyway. That's a young core right there, and the only thing we are really missing is that possesion WR. Which I think we can go find one in FA for cheap. Give it time to develop and grow. Go give it a better line and we could have some fun.

Ill just quote one of your post but will reply to both in short.  Im actually excited about our offense.  With SSr and no deep threat, i thought Joe and Trestman were going a great job with almost no contribution from anywhere else, now add in Crocket who i think is going to be a monster for us, i think we are set on offense.  Very intrigued on our run game next year.  

 

Im with you on nothing major changing, but also agree we will move on from some coaches. 

 

Im with you on how big losing Suggs was.  I thought we were going to be ok after i saw how we played denver in week one, damn i was way wrong.  I thought we would be able to be a little more creative with our blitzs but our secondary was playing extremely bad for quite sometime, thats what happens when you have all day to throw. 

 

Im so used to the way to treat FA it blows my mind how some people think we would make a play for say...Von-miller type players.  Clearly they have never really payed attention to how we work and it IS a strategy that does work.  Our FO gets paid to do this and we all here get the luxury of being monday morning qbs after certain moves thinking we could do better.  I couldnt imagine some of the moves some fans would try on here.  Suggs is too old, Doom is too old, Jimmy should be cut, etc....smh

 

Honestly i dont know why i replied...i basically agree with everything you said and dont have anything to contribute.  Im just here at work waiting to go home.  Guess your rant made me want to rant....

[usmccharles]

Well, little off topic, Crabtree wont be a FA next year,  4 year 35 mill with 19guaranteed. 

[Cillmatic]

Well, little off topic, Crabtree wont be a FA next year, 4 year 35 mill with 19guaranteed.

He's not a good teammate anyway.

#mediocrereceiver

[usmccharles]

He's not a good teammate anyway.

#mediocrereceiver

I actually heard he turned around his ways...so not too sure...

[elemento]

They will regret that contract. Crabtree is the typical fool's gold contract year player. 

[rmcjacket23]

They will regret that contract. Crabtree is the typical fool's gold contract year player. 

Typically I'd agree, and although they only have 33 players under contract for next season, the Raiders are currently projected to have an excess of $70M in cap space available.

 

They can afford to overpay mostly anybody they want.

[Deflated Football]

I think Mike Wallace is getting cut after this season. We were interested in him before Miami traded him to Minnesota. I'd be all in for the signing as he's still extremely fast and he'll turn 30 next training camp. Him and Breshad would be perfect fits for Flacco and if we could keep SSS, draft Boyd or Doctson or sign Garçon (please), our offense will look ridiculously sweet.

[Drew P]

What do the ravens save if Suggs unexpectedly retires?? And how much would be saved if Dumervil is traded?? I do not like idea of paying 2 older olbs. Anyways cuts could include pitta,Canty,webb,Daryl Smith,Forsett,Elam,arrington,Jimmy Smith traded or cut(if he saves anything significant),monroe(if he saves enough and Tunsil or a left tackle is drafted,signed or traded for,lewis,SS may retire, and Suggs will not embarrass himself if he is not effective returning from Achilles. It would be nice to find a way to dump Jimmy smith. Oz has the ravens cap busted to hell!! Jimmy should never been signed so early. He has been erratic at times even when not injured. He has never been consistent enough to get a contract like that!!

 

I just don't see why in hell everyone is thinking Webb is gone. He has played okay certainly not up to his salary but there isn't DB's just lying around this league waiting for a call. While Smith has stunk he isn't going anywhere. Forsett doesn't make sense he will be a good #2 change of pace behind Buck.

[rmcjacket23]

I just don't see why in hell everyone is thinking Webb is gone. He has played okay certainly not up to his salary but there isn't DB's just lying around this league waiting for a call. While Smith has stunk he isn't going anywhere. Forsett doesn't make sense he will be a good #2 change of pace behind Buck.

Won't know this until after the draft. I don't suspect Webb is gone either, but if we draft a corner early and maybe sign another corner, can certainly see the FO dropping him to save cap space for another areas they want to address.

 

Forsett is affordable at $3M also, but again, if we were to address RB in the draft or in FA, he becomes expendable.

[gtalk12]

will Marvin Jones be available?

 

We have young talent I still believe in, if HEALTHY a piece or 2 could take us into another discussion.

 

 

 

We need to see Perriman, if he lives up to the #1 pick then we will have flexibility we have not had.

 

SSS is old, we shouldn't be counting on him over and over....I hope he comes back for another year....but he is 37.

 

Aiken is cool, Marlon Brown as high as I was on him never returned to year 1 form....it's sad.

 

Camp is an issue, the dude looks like a football player and a damn good one....but his health is extremely suspect.

 

Our TE's even without Pitta is something to hold on to, I love Gilmore and Maxx/Boyle could be a great punch

[Winchester]

I dunno why anybody would want to pay Forsett nearly $3mil!! The run game has got much better since his injury. Nobody pays a 31 yr old running back that much money when there is a young stud runner. And all the homers seem to think Suggs is returning to anchor the defense. But that is a typical Homer trademark. Home team players are irreplaceable no matter how old. And home team favorites will be pro bowlers til the age of 50!! I remember all the anger when Mason was traded. How anybody could want Forsett,Daryl Smith and Suggs next year before a young stud like KO is a mystery. Dislike all you want homers. Suggs will not be an impact player next year.

[Inqui]

I dunno why anybody would want to pay Forsett nearly $3mil!! The run game has got much better since his injury. Nobody pays a 31 yr old running back that much money when there is a young stud runner. And all the homers seem to think Suggs is returning to anchor the defense. But that is a typical Homer trademark. Home team players are irreplaceable no matter how old. And home team favorites will be pro bowlers til the age of 50!! I remember all the anger when Mason was traded. How anybody could want Forsett,Daryl Smith and Suggs next year before a young stud like KO is a mystery. Dislike all you want homers. Suggs will not be an impact player next year.

I'm personally leaning towards hoping we cut Forsett, but age can be a really misleading thing when it comes to RBs. The reason 30-year-old RBs tend to decline is that they've dealt with an obscene number of carries and it finally catches up to them. Frank Gore's been slowing down recently, but that's more because he's had 2636 rushing attempts in his career. Arian Foster's 29, but he's had 1454 carries and turned vegan. Forsett's only had 733 career carries, which is more comparable to Demarco Murray (1097 carries, age 27) or Doug Martin (807 carries, age 26). I know an average 30-year-old isn't as athletic as an average 25-year-old, but the mileage on Forsett's body isn't comparable to a 30-year-old RB at all.

 

And no matter what Suggs does or doesn't do next year, his money will be on the books for at least the next two seasons so he isn't going anywhere. KO's completely different because he's going to demand a payday this offseason (Ben Grubbs got five years and $36 million, so KO's probably not far off that ball park). The two are completely different because of their cap situations.

[Winchester]

I'm personally leaning towards hoping we cut Forsett, but age can be a really misleading thing when it comes to RBs. The reason 30-year-old RBs tend to decline is that they've dealt with an obscene number of carries and it finally catches up to them. Frank Gore's been slowing down recently, but that's more because he's had 2636 rushing attempts in his career. Arian Foster's 29, but he's had 1454 carries and turned vegan. Forsett's only had 733 career carries, which is more comparable to Demarco Murray (1097 carries, age 27) or Doug Martin (807 carries, age 26). I know an average 30-year-old isn't as athletic as an average 25-year-old, but the mileage on Forsett's body isn't comparable to a 30-year-old RB at all.

 

And no matter what Suggs does or doesn't do next year, his money will be on the books for at least the next two seasons so he isn't going anywhere. KO's completely different because he's going to demand a payday this offseason (Ben Grubbs got five years and $36 million, so KO's probably not far off that ball park). The two are completely different because of their cap situations.

I get that part but peeps act as if they actually prefer those aging vets and overrated jimmy over a young stud guard.

[rmw10]

I'm personally leaning towards hoping we cut Forsett, but age can be a really misleading thing when it comes to RBs. The reason 30-year-old RBs tend to decline is that they've dealt with an obscene number of carries and it finally catches up to them. Frank Gore's been slowing down recently, but that's more because he's had 2636 rushing attempts in his career. Arian Foster's 29, but he's had 1454 carries and turned vegan. Forsett's only had 733 career carries, which is more comparable to Demarco Murray (1097 carries, age 27) or Doug Martin (807 carries, age 26). I know an average 30-year-old isn't as athletic as an average 25-year-old, but the mileage on Forsett's body isn't comparable to a 30-year-old RB at all.

 

And no matter what Suggs does or doesn't do next year, his money will be on the books for at least the next two seasons so he isn't going anywhere. KO's completely different because he's going to demand a payday this offseason (Ben Grubbs got five years and $36 million, so KO's probably not far off that ball park). The two are completely different because of their cap situations.

 

I think they value Forsett's leadership too much.  He was mentioned specifically as the guy they thought could unlock Terrance West's potential and get him on the right path.  I'd think it would obviously be in a lesser role, but I still see a role here for him.

[Boddiebroadus]

I dunno why anybody would want to pay Forsett nearly $3mil!! The run game has got much better since his injury. Nobody pays a 31 yr old running back that much money when there is a young stud runner. And all the homers seem to think Suggs is returning to anchor the defense. But that is a typical Homer trademark. Home team players are irreplaceable no matter how old. And home team favorites will be pro bowlers til the age of 50!! I remember all the anger when Mason was traded. How anybody could want Forsett,Daryl Smith and Suggs next year before a young stud like KO is a mystery. Dislike all you want homers. Suggs will not be an impact player next year.

You keep suggesting we cut or get rid of 4 players under contract because you claim they are under performing. So if we did this, who do you suggest we replace Suggs, doom, d. Smith, j. Smith with?

[January J]

I dunno why anybody would want to pay Forsett nearly $3mil!! The run game has got much better since his injury. Nobody pays a 31 yr old running back that much money when there is a young stud runner. And all the homers seem to think Suggs is returning to anchor the defense. But that is a typical Homer trademark. Home team players are irreplaceable no matter how old. And home team favorites will be pro bowlers til the age of 50!! I remember all the anger when Mason was traded. How anybody could want Forsett,Daryl Smith and Suggs next year before a young stud like KO is a mystery. Dislike all you want homers. Suggs will not be an impact player next year.

since his injury we have played the two teams that are 31st and 32 in the league in run defense.

[January J]

How does the board feel about Josh Gordon? Yes I know about his issues, but if we didn't take any risks we wouldn't have will hill right now either. Just asking Bc he will be one of the few upper tier FA receivers next year. Aside from him really the only other big name you got is alshon Jeffrey and he will be out of our range. We might be able to get a decent deal with Gordon due to teams being reluctant to take a chance on him. I think he would pair well with perriman and baltimore might be the place that could finally get him straight. Anyway, just a thought. Now let me have it.

Edited December 12, 2015 by January J

[Boddiebroadus]

How does the board feel about Josh Gordon? Yes I know about his issues, but if we didn't take any risks we wouldn't have will hill right now either. Just asking Bc he will be one of the few upper tier FA receivers next year. Aside from him really the only other big name you got is alshon Jeffrey and he will be out of our range. We might be able to get a decent deal with Gordon due to teams being reluctant to take a chance on him. I think he would pair well with perriman and baltimore might be the place that could finally get him straight. Anyway, just a thought. Now let me have it.

Yes!!! I've suggested this several times on these boards. He should be cheap. Plus Browns can't risk having him and manziel on the same team. His last incident with alcohol was bs. He had 4 beers with his coach after the season was over. He's a stud and he's keeping in shape dude looks ready to ball.

[RavensFanMania]

And I think Tucker has to agree to a deal a little poorer than Gradkowski's. He's missed every single FG over 50 yds this year. It is to the benefit of both parties if he signs a deal.

not every one.  He beat the Steelers with a 51 yarder. 

[PurpleCity5]

Webb is gone, I'll just say that. From what I've seen from a few clips and what not the dude got toast. I don't even think he is worth keeping around at that cap hit. Unless he agrees to play at FS I'm resigned to the fact that he's gone. I've defended him in the past and I thought he was heading back to his post-ACL tear form but he is just a question mark and I believe he won't be here. 

 

It's like every-time you think he has turned it around, he has you thinking otherwise. I think he lost too much in those legs to play CB. 

 

I'd rather have Will Davis take over. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[Winchester]

You keep suggesting we cut or get rid of 4 players under contract because you claim they are under performing. So if we did this, who do you suggest we replace Suggs, doom, d. Smith, j. Smith with?

Draft picks. Cheap free agents that will perform better with ravens than their current team. Nobody feels declining and terrible players could be replaced. But somehow the ravens can replace a young stud Oline player??