2016 Salary Cap & Possible Moves

[DenverRaven]

we must keep KO.

 

This would be like losing McPhee ( maybe worse) 

 

he's young and a stud guard. Got to keep him . I expect whatever cap space we open up with cuts and restricting to be geared towards retaining him.

 

I think KO is gone. He's had too many problems staying healthy, and will net quite a bit on the open market. Urschel can take over for him, and we can draft OL.

[Sami84]

I think KO is gone. He's had too many problems staying healthy, and will net quite a bit on the open market. Urschel can take over for him, and we can draft OL.

 

we lose a lot..urshel is an ok linesman..he's no KO . If we clear cap we can def resign KO i feel. this isnt like last year where bascially everyone had to leave.

 

i'd let tucker walk...honestly.

[rmcjacket23]

we must keep KO.

 

This would be like losing McPhee ( maybe worse) 

 

he's young and a stud guard. Got to keep him . I expect whatever cap space we open up with cuts and restricting to be geared towards retaining him.

Not likely. Can't afford to pay two guards top tier money in this league, and he will likely certainly find higher contracts elsewhere.

 

I'd be surprised if he were retained.

[GrimCoconut]

we lose a lot..urshel is an ok linesman..he's no KO . If we clear cap we can def resign KO i feel. this isnt like last year where bascially everyone had to leave.

i'd let tucker walk...honestly.

I don't understand you sometimes. I mean you make some valid points, but then you'll criticize Ozzie for giving money to a guy with injuries and then when he gets injured you criticize Ozzie for giving him the deal knowing he had injuries. KO has dealt with injuries quite frequently. I wouldn't call him a Pitta, who came off injury and played a few games then got a deal and later found himself injured again, but this has a similar situation. I just don't understand your logic sometimes.

Or maybe I'm confusing you with someone else? I'll admit I may be.

Edited December 8, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[Sami84]

I don't understand you sometimes. I mean you make some valid points, but then you'll criticize Ozzie for giving money to a guy with injuries and then when he gets injured you criticize Ozzie for giving him the deal knowing he had injuries. KO has dealt with injuries quite frequently. I wouldn't call him a Pitta, who came off injury and played a few games then got a deal and later found himself injured again, but this has a similar situation. I just don't understand your logic sometimes.

Or maybe I'm confusing you with someone else? I'll admit I may be.

 

KO is a safer deal than pitta webb and jimmy smith. he's also been at a high quality for much longer. Hes EARNED his contract..while you cant say the same for smith or webb who played 1 good half season and webb 1 great season.

 

KO has been great for the past 3 years!

Edited December 8, 2015 by Sami84

[rmw10]

we must keep KO.

 

This would be like losing McPhee ( maybe worse) 

 

he's young and a stud guard. Got to keep him . I expect whatever cap space we open up with cuts and restricting to be geared towards retaining him.

 

I like KO, but I don't see the money for him.  We already gave a large contract to Yanda.  Monroe and Zuttah are on the expensive side as well.  Wagner is due for a contract next year, and I'd guess they'd rather give out a contract to a T than a G, especially since Urschel has showed alright at G in the past and even Jensen has played fairly well so far this year.  I get the desire to keep him as I want him as well, but I also understand that it would be ton of money tied into the OL.  I don't think there's any feasible way we can have all 5 guys on fairly large contracts while still filling the other holes on the team.

[GrimCoconut]

KO is a safer deal than pitta webb and jimmy smith. he's also been at a high quality for much longer. Hes EARNED his contract..while you cant say the same for smith or webb who played 1 good half season and webb 1 great season.

KO has been great for the past 3 years!

Yeah, you're right in that he's been good when healthy and not so much when injured. He's just seemingly been injured a lot. I know this year he's struggled through injuries and he also did in 2013. He had a great 2014 and was good as a rookie in 2012, but was awesome as a LG in the playoffs during the run.

I just don't know how I feel about keeping him. I honestly wouldn't mind letting him go. I'd really like to sign Cordy Glenn if he somehow walks away from Buffalo. He'd be awesome as a LG who can play LT when Monroe gets hurt.

[GrimCoconut]

I like KO, but I don't see the money for him. We already gave a large contract to Yanda. Monroe and Zuttah are on the expensive side as well. Wagner is due for a contract next year, and I'd guess they'd rather give out a contract to a T than a G, especially since Urschel has showed alright at G in the past and even Jensen has played fairly well so far this year. I get the desire to keep him as I want him as well, but I also understand that it would be ton of money tied into the OL. I don't think there's any feasible way we can have all 5 guys on fairly large contracts while still filling the other holes on the team.

I agree it's hard to invest much at LG when we've already invested into LT, RG, C, and may have to invest again with our RT. With that said, how do you feel about signing a guy like Cordy Glenn if he's allowed to walk away from Buffalo? He can play LG and LT, which means we could move on from Monroe who can't seem to stay healthy. It gives us insurance and a good player, and we can always trade Monroe if he picks up his game. If not, Monroe could become a cap casualty in 2017.

Thoughts?

[rmw10]

I agree it's hard to invest much at LG when we've already invested into LT, RG, C, and may have to invest again with our RT. With that said, how do you feel about signing a guy like Cordy Glenn if he's allowed to walk away from Buffalo? He can play LG and LT, which means we could move on from Monroe who can't seem to stay healthy. It gives us insurance and a good player, and we can always trade Monroe if he picks up his game. If not, Monroe could become a cap casualty in 2017.

Thoughts?

 

I like Glenn, but I don't see us investing that much money into the position with how many other holes we have.  I'd be more than alright if we decided to use this offseason to just pick up good players regardless of position in an effort to bring back a stellar team in 2017.  If I had to guess though, I imagine we'll be aiming to fill what holes we do have to compete next year.

[rmcjacket23]

KO is a safer deal than pitta webb and jimmy smith. he's also been at a high quality for much longer. Hes EARNED his contract..while you cant say the same for smith or webb who played 1 good half season and webb 1 great season.

 

KO has been great for the past 3 years!

Plays at a position where there's less demand for his services at that price range.

 

Plus, we've shown a history of being able to draft and develop interior lineman in the middle rounds and turned them into quality players. Why spend top tier money on something you can probably get for cheaper?

[GrimCoconut]

I like Glenn, but I don't see us investing that much money into the position with how many other holes we have.  I'd be more than alright if we decided to use this offseason to just pick up good players regardless of position in an effort to bring back a stellar team in 2017.  If I had to guess though, I imagine we'll be aiming to fill what holes we do have to compete next year.

I think it all depends on how we structure the deal. If we decide we're letting Monroe regardless in 2017, then it makes sense because you can structure the deal to account for that. It could work, but I do think you're right. It doesn't seem like a move we'd make, although I do think it would be for the best due to the injury concerns Monroe seems to have lately. 

 

Sad, too, because he's been such a good player, IMO. People criticize his play but it's not at all bad or even average because he pass protects very well, although he's not as good of a run blocker. Still, he's a very good player and an above-average LT when he sees the field, which is all too rare lately. If we sign Glenn with the intent of him playing LT eventually, if Monroe goes down the deal is vindicated and if not, we have a great LG next to him. If Monroe stays healthy, we can possibly trade him since he does play above-average when healthy. If he gets hurt or doesn't see the field, we could likely cut him for the cap savings, which would be very respectable in 2017. 

Edited December 8, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[Sami84]

Plays at a position where there's less demand for his services at that price range.

 

Plus, we've shown a history of being able to draft and develop interior lineman in the middle rounds and turned them into quality players. Why spend top tier money on something you can probably get for cheaper?

unless we get tunsil if we lose KO i expect our O line to be  a weak point next year. Wagner has been awful this year. KO hasnt been awful at any point in his career.

 

I'd rather keep KO than wagner. We dont know if he will ever come back to his 2014 standard

Edited December 8, 2015 by Sami84

[rmcjacket23]

unless we get tunsil if we lose KO i expect our O line to be  a weak point next year. Wagner has been awful this year. KO hasnt been awful at any point in his career.

 

I'd rather keep KO than wagner. We dont know if he will ever come back to his 2014 standard

Wagner's been about average, certainly not bad. I don't think our Oline will be that big of a problem.

[Sami84]

Wagner's been about average, certainly not bad. I don't think our Oline will be that big of a problem.

 

it will be if KO is out.

 

He's a really good player entering the peak of his career. Anyhow, don;t say i didnt say so. for me zuttah and wagner are expendable.

[allblackraven]

Wagner's been about average, certainly not bad. I don't think our Oline will be that big of a problem.

That seems to be a bit of an understatement.

 

We have no idea how will Monroe go - after the last two seasons, can anybody say with any confidence he'll play most of the games?

 

Wagner regressed, hopefully it's due to foot injury but we keep forgetting he was 5th round selection.

 

KO most likely won't be here (money).

 

Urschel seems like a capable guy at G but we need to see him more to be completely confident. He struggles a bit at C but that's understandable, that position is not the easiest one to play.

 

Zuttah is OK, although he's getting little banged up lately.

 

Jensen is meh. Hurst is terrible, other guys on the chart are not even worth mentioning at this point.

 

The only guy we have on this O line that plays great week in, week out is Yanda.

 

Our running game has been less than stellar this year, our franchise QB ended up under knife, his backup got beat well last week.

 

Unless we invest in Oline next offseason/draft, we might be in trouble again.

[jazz1988]

it will be if KO is out.

 

He's a really good player entering the peak of his career. Anyhow, don;t say i didnt say so. for me zuttah and wagner are expendable.

 

I don't the think The Ravens can afford K.O and if he does leave I really don't doubt Ozzie being able to replace him just like he replaced Grubbs. Some team that really needs offensive line help is going to really want to pay for K.O because for one he's good and young. 

[Cawtious]

unless we get tunsil if we lose KO i expect our O line to be  a weak point next year. Wagner has been awful this year. KO hasnt been awful at any point in his career.

 

I'd rather keep KO than wagner. We dont know if he will ever come back to his 2014 standard

I think the OLine shakes out this way after the season:

 

Urschel:  Starting Center.  Zuttah is not the future of that position. 

Wagner:  Remains with the team.  Ricky has upside and will continue to improve.  His injury has affected his play this year.  With some time off, that will change

Monroe:  He may have played his last.  I see IR coming and Ravens drafting in the second round for a LT.  Wesley remains as a backup.  If Monroe is not available for the remainder of 2015, KO will shift over.

KO:  Done after 2015.  Jensen will supplant him.  He (Jensen)  will get playing time in the last 4 games with KO shifting to LT due to  Hurst's difficulties and my thoughts that Monroe will hit the IR soon.  After the 2015 campaign, the team will cut ties with KO and move on. 

Hurst:  Struggling and will have to drastically improve his Pass Pro or he may not survive OTA's next year.  Kept for depth at best for now.

 

D. Wesley:  Will compete for RT vs. Wagner next year

Meyers:  Will need to change his approach to survive camp next year.   

 

Draft needs:  LT (2nd Round)  G ( 6th round)  C (supplimental) or UDFA   RT/RG (UDFA for depth)

[Winchester]

Eating the money now has no impact on future cap space. The dead money is the exact same regardless of when its recognized.

Eating the money now has no impact on future cap space. The dead money is the exact same regardless of when its recognized.

That is what worried me bout Suggs' contract. Just my opinion Suggs will barely be NFL caliber next year.

[rmcjacket23]

That is what worried me bout Suggs' contract. Just my opinion Suggs will barely be NFL caliber next year.

Suggs wouldn't crack my top 10 in concerns. He plays good enough run defense with one leg that I'm not concerned about him.

 

Far bigger issues.

[Winchester]

Plays at a position where there's less demand for his services at that price range.

 

Plus, we've shown a history of being able to draft and develop interior lineman in the middle rounds and turned them into quality players. Why spend top tier money on something you can probably get for cheaper?

KO is a stud!! More than likely he would be replaced by somebody serviceable. I do not know how anybody could justify the money payed to that erratic scrub Jimmy( not aimed to you dude:).) then say let KO walk!! KO is a top5 guard, young powerful physical, explosive, athletic for the position. Letting him walk is a step in the wrong direction for the offense!! Urschel needs to remain at center and finish getting acquainted at the position. Harbs really likes his physicality at center. Yanda KO and Urschel will be better than what the cowboys front. A little more powerful than the Dallas trio. Urschel has the skill,intelligence and work ethic to become a formidable center. Wagner I believe does establish himself at tackle again. He was to formidable to be a fluke. Then if the ravens could land Tunsil the Oline is best in the NFL by far!! Then throw in Gilmore an elite blocker while a good REceiver and Maxx who guaranteed he will be stronger and faster next year and a seam threat at TE who can also block. Buck Allen is an elite receiver at RB and ravens 2TE sets will be tough to defend.

[rmcjacket23]

KO is a stud!! More than likely he would be replaced by somebody serviceable. I do not know how anybody could justify the money payed to that erratic scrub Jimmy( not aimed to you dude:).) then say let KO walk!! KO is a top5 guard, young powerful physical, explosive, athletic for the position. Letting him walk is a step in the wrong direction for the offense!! Urschel needs to remain at center and finish getting acquainted at the position. Harbs really likes his physicality at center. Yanda KO and Urschel will be better than what the cowboys front. A little more powerful than the Dallas trio. Urschel has the skill,intelligence and work ethic to become a formidable center. Wagner I believe does establish himself at tackle again. He was to formidable to be a fluke. Then if the ravens could land Tunsil the Oline is best in the NFL by far!! Then throw in Gilmore an elite blocker while a good REceiver and Maxx who guaranteed he will be stronger and faster next year and a seam threat at TE who can also block. Buck Allen is an elite receiver at RB and ravens 2TE sets will be tough to defend.

So we are just paying more money to stay the same basically?

 

You could arguably get 2-3 quality starters in the long term for the price you pay KO. I don't know a single team in the league who is successful investing over $10M a year in a pair of guards.

 

We've already shown the ability to develop these guys... there's no point in overpaying for them. I heard these exact same arguments about Ben Grubbs (who in my opinion was a better guard than KO at that time) when we let him walk, and we really haven't missed him since.

 

He gone.

[ravens88]

^{Cant get rid of Monroe we have to much money tied up in him. Hope the trend changes on him barely playing.}

^{Monroe- Urschel- Zuttah- yanda- wagner isn't a bad o-line by any means plus we can draft players as well.}

[Winchester]

So we are just paying more money to stay the same basically?

 

You could arguably get 2-3 quality starters in the long term for the price you pay KO. I don't know a single team in the league who is successful investing over $10M a year in a pair of guards.

 

We've already shown the ability to develop these guys... there's no point in overpaying for them. I heard these exact same arguments about Ben Grubbs (who in my opinion was a better guard than KO at that time) when we let him walk, and we really haven't missed him since.

 

He gone.

So it is a good idea to let an elite young guard walk while paying 2 declining olbs on the wrong side of 30 and an overrated erratic cornerback and left tackle an average of near $10mil a year?? The idea is get younger and better not older!! If KO walks the Oline will be a weak spot. I do not trust Ozzie's drafting to replace ko!! Ozzie threw money at Monroe. Even the jags were smart enough to not do that!! If the ravens let him walk, what is the excuses going to be when he kicks the ravens Dline's butt while Ozzie has all that dough going out to declining olb's and an erratic underperforming Cornerback and left tackle. Ozzie has wrecked the salary cap!! To say otherwise is nothing but homeristic defending of Newsome!!

[GrimCoconut]

^{Cant get rid of Monroe we have to much money tied up in him. Hope the trend changes on him barely playing.}

^{Monroe- Urschel- Zuttah- yanda- wagner isn't a bad o-line by any means plus we can draft players as well.}

He's significantly easier to cut in 2017 and would save us roughly $4.5M at that point. 

[Winchester]

Grubbs was overrated!! He was not nearly the player KO is!! KO moves peeps off the ball and mauls. Grubbs got very little movement. And KO could play tackle. You would never see Grubbs at tackle. Olineman that consistently get movement are tough to find!!

[Winchester]

its only better if you are rebuilding that season.

 

if you plan on making the play offs it would not be the smartest thing to do.

I see Suggs,Jimmy, and Daryl Smith as liabilities next year anyways, not difference makers!! And Dumervil will be OK but nothing special. Suggs and Daryl Smith are used band aids. The poor drafting is catching up to the ravens!! And their best draft pick by far in last 4 drafts everybody is saying let walk while retaining aging and declining players and erratic overrated players (jimmy' Monroe) Hard to believe I read that!!

[rmcjacket23]

So it is a good idea to let an elite young guard walk while paying 2 declining olbs on the wrong side of 30 and an overrated erratic cornerback and left tackle an average of near $10mil a year?? The idea is get younger and better not older!! If KO walks the Oline will be a weak spot. I do not trust Ozzie's drafting to replace ko!! Ozzie threw money at Monroe. Even the jags were smart enough to not do that!! If the ravens let him walk, what is the excuses going to be when he kicks the ravens Dline's butt while Ozzie has all that dough going out to declining olb's and an erratic underperforming Cornerback and left tackle. Ozzie has wrecked the salary cap!! To say otherwise is nothing but homeristic defending of Newsome!!

Purely hindsight, obviously, so comparing the two makes no sense.

 

1. None of the guys listed are averaging $10M per year, so how can they collectively be averaging $10M a year? Monroe and Suggs are paid like average players at their position, which is what they are, and Dumervil is still producing WAY beyond his pay grade at this point. Jimmy is the only person on that group who you could literally say has not yet lived up to his contract in terms of on-field production and price.

 

2. So your solution to the "we spend too much money on players" problem is to spend more money on players? GENIUS!

 

3. You are literally the only person to say Ben Grubbs IS overrated, and naturally, you weren't saying that when we let him walk. The list of people who wanted us to retain Grubbs and NOT resign Yanda was longer than the current list. Literally nobody thought he was overrated at the time. Naturally, now that you've gotten to see him play for the last five years, you now, in hind sight of course, make bold statements about past events as if they were obvious. Naturally, they weren't.

 

You're not going to fool me or anybody by waiting until you have all the facts and then trying to pass up that information as obvious, particularly when you were in the non-obvious camp.

[Winchester]

Purely hindsight, obviously, so comparing the two makes no sense.

 

1. None of the guys listed are averaging $10M per year, so how can they collectively be averaging $10M a year? Monroe and Suggs are paid like average players at their position, which is what they are, and Dumervil is still producing WAY beyond his pay grade at this point. Jimmy is the only person on that group who you could literally say has not yet lived up to his contract in terms of on-field production and price.

 

2. So your solution to the "we spend too much money on players" problem is to spend more money on players? GENIUS!

 

3. You are literally the only person to say Ben Grubbs IS overrated, and naturally, you weren't saying that when we let him walk. The list of people who wanted us to retain Grubbs and NOT resign Yanda was longer than the current list. Literally nobody thought he was overrated at the time. Naturally, now that you've gotten to see him play for the last five years, you now, in hind sight of course, make bold statements about past events as if they were obvious. Naturally, they weren't.

 

You're not going to fool me or anybody by waiting until you have all the facts and then trying to pass up that information as obvious, particularly when you were in the non-obvious camp.

Purely hindsight, obviously, so comparing the two makes no sense.

 

1. None of the guys listed are averaging $10M per year, so how can they collectively be averaging $10M a year? Monroe and Suggs are paid like average players at their position, which is what they are, and Dumervil is still producing WAY beyond his pay grade at this point. Jimmy is the only person on that group who you could literally say has not yet lived up to his contract in terms of on-field production and price.

 

2. So your solution to the "we spend too much money on players" problem is to spend more money on players? GENIUS!

 

3. You are literally the only person to say Ben Grubbs IS overrated, and naturally, you weren't saying that when we let him walk. The list of people who wanted us to retain Grubbs and NOT resign Yanda was longer than the current list. Literally nobody thought he was overrated at the time. Naturally, now that you've gotten to see him play for the last five years, you now, in hind sight of course, make bold statements about past events as if they were obvious. Naturally, they weren't.

 

You're not going to fool me or anybody by waiting until you have all the facts and then trying to pass up that information as obvious, particularly when you were in the non-obvious camp.

I said an average of nearly $10mil. Count the total cost!! Not just the yearly salary!! I was saying Yanda was better than Grubbs since 2007!! I did not miss Grubbs at all for the $$ he got!! And obviously I mean spend money on the right players!! Obviously not Jimmy,Monroe,A TE coming off I.r.,Aging RBs,and aging lbs. We will be sure to revisit this thread next year to see how Suggs and Dumervil are performing and Daryl Smith if he is still with the ravens. Jimmy is a bust who enjoyed 15 minutes. Suggs is done and Dumervil will be good but far from elite.

[balfan23]

So it is a good idea to let an elite young guard walk while paying 2 declining olbs on the wrong side of 30 and an overrated erratic cornerback and left tackle an average of near $10mil a year?? The idea is get younger and better not older!! If KO walks the Oline will be a weak spot. I do not trust Ozzie's drafting to replace ko!! Ozzie threw money at Monroe. Even the jags were smart enough to not do that!! If the ravens let him walk, what is the excuses going to be when he kicks the ravens Dline's butt while Ozzie has all that dough going out to declining olb's and an erratic underperforming Cornerback and left tackle. Ozzie has wrecked the salary cap!! To say otherwise is nothing but homeristic defending of Newsome!!

I know it is going to be painful letting KO walk, but the remedies you propose - getting rid of Suggs, Doom, Jimmy? (or is it Webb, I can't tell...) and Monroe .. won't allow us to sign KO. In most cases, we save little money and in others, we actually lose money with those moves. It sounds as if you want to just transfer their salaries to KO. You can't simply undo what has already been done. 

 

So - I want to ask ... we're you angry when we signed Doom in 2013, gave Suggs an extension and signed Monroe in 2014 and when we signed Jimmy this past off season? Don't answer based on where you see these guys are now - but where they were when these deals were made? If you were, then you would be in a very, very small minority. 

[rmcjacket23]

I said an average of nearly $10mil. Count the total cost!! Not just the yearly salary!! I was saying Yanda was better than Grubbs since 2007!! I did not miss Grubbs at all for the $$ he got!! And obviously I mean spend money on the right players!! Obviously not Jimmy,Monroe,A TE coming off I.r.,Aging RBs,and aging lbs. We will be sure to revisit this thread next year to see how Suggs and Dumervil are performing and Daryl Smith if he is still with the ravens. Jimmy is a bust who enjoyed 15 minutes. Suggs is done and Dumervil will be good but far from elite.

Why would I count total cost when players rarely play out the totality of their contract? That doesn't make any sense.

 

Frankly, if I looked just as GUARANTEED money, which is the only thing that matters, you're looking at way, way, way less than $10M a year on average. 

 

Sorry, that average you came up with is completely irrelevant and makes no sense. That's like thinking Joe Flacco is going to make $120M. Not anywhere close.