[News] Eisenberg: Losing For A Few Draft Slots Isn't Worth It

[Purple&Black]

Call it a bad front office, or whatever. The teams that usually draft early are the same ones every year. Browns, Titans, bucs, etc. If an earlier pick is supposed to be such a sure thing, how do these teams continue to fail. That's why I believe this team, and this front office will get the player they want whether they draft 3rd or draft 12.

[Ravensfansince03]

Regarding the draft picks; New England ha been more successful than the Ravens. Their draft picks? 2009 No first-round draft pick 2010 27 2011 17 2012 21 25 2013 No first-round draft pick 2014 29 2016 No first-round draft pick

 

With a QB/player like Brady, they don't need 1st round draft picks like that. All you have to do is build around him. Same rule applied with Ray Lewis.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Ravensfansince03

[HoldingCall]

ravefan52, on 02 Dec 2015 - 7:37 PM, said:

The Browns game was awesome and I'll take that type of win any day. BUT I don't want us to win out because we just aren't going to make the playoffs. I agree a winning culture is important, and we have that here so to me a high draft pick could be more useful. I wouldn't want our coaches and players to give up, I just wouldn't mind if we kept barely losing that much. Obviously you can get great players throughout the draft, but people here act like picking higher doesn't make a difference. You have a much better chance of getting an impact player when you pick higher, especially when you have Ozzie Newsome as your GM. People make a list of impact players grabbed later on, well here's another list of our 1st sections in each draft.

 

1st pick - top 18: CJ Mosley (17), Joe Flacco (18), Haloti Ngata (12), Terrell Suggs (10), Jamal Lewis (5), Travis Taylor (10), Chris McAlester (10), Duane Starks (10), Jonathan Ogden (4)

8/9 of those guys were great selections. That's batting 88%.

 

1st pick - 19-32: Breshad Perriman (26), Matt Elam (32), Courtney Upshaw (35, traded back from 29), Jimmy Smith (27), Sergio Kindle (43, traded back from 25), Michael Oher (23), Ben Grubbs (29), Mark Clayton (22), Dwan Edwards (51, traded original 1st rd pick), Kyle Boller (19) Ed Reed (24), Todd Heap (31)

4/12 Ozzie hit on (Not counting Perriman yet). Batting 33%.

 

Winning out would probably put us at right about 20 and not making the playoffs. I can't fault someone for wanting to win, and yes we get impact guys thought the draft, but don't tell me us picking higher doesn't matter that much. It clearly does.

It matters but not as much as winning.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

No not to the players it is not good to lose they are playing for their NFL future. However to the fans and the organization it would be the future. At this point in all honesty I never hope this team loses. I always pull for them to win but if they lose I am not really shook-up about it because it would mean a decent draft slotting for the Ravens and honestly I really don't think they are going to make the playoffs this year (I know the Ravens are not mathematically out yet)If they did by some MIRICLE make it I think it would be 1 and done. For fans a early draft pick would be nice just because of the season we had to watch and follow it would almost make it worth it. I understand Harbs and the players side though never quit and play with pride and that's totally respectable.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Because they're the Browns and they suck at evaluating talent. On the other hand Ozzie turns the few high picks we do get into impact players and that is partially why we rarely pick there.

Great point. Ozzie has turned the earlier picks into winners for the Ravens. The Browns are just plain snake bitten because they cant find a QB worth a darn and they turn over coaches faster than  Hollywood actors  turns over spouses.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Stop with the patronizing Mr. Eisenberg. Look, we are devoid of talent at several key positions. In this league of parity, it is critically important (at least for teams that do not participate in free agency aggressively) to load up on top tier talent and the mid - 20s' draft scenario doesn't help.

 

We are a winning team and proud of it. But we are mainly a playoff bound team and consider a non- playoff year a bad year regardless of wins or losses. Therefore, it is not so outrageous that some of the fans would like a top 5 draft pick this year to shore up on critical positions in the draft. Especially, with the majority of our key starters on IR, why is it so bad to start young players to try them out?

 

So please don't try to be so patronizing in your articles. Give the fans some credit as well. They care for the welfare of this team just as much as you may.

 

Just to clarify my personal position, I like us winning, but don't like to be told I am right and every other fan that thinks losing isn't such a bad thing is wrong! There are several ways to skin a cat remember?

Could not have said it better great post THUMBS UP!!!!!

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

The Browns game was awesome and I'll take that type of win any day. BUT I don't want us to win out because we just aren't going to make the playoffs. I agree a winning culture is important, and we have that here so to me a high draft pick could be more useful. I wouldn't want our coaches and players to give up, I just wouldn't mind if we kept barely losing that much. Obviously you can get great players throughout the draft, but people here act like picking higher doesn't make a difference. You have a much better chance of getting an impact player when you pick higher, especially when you have Ozzie Newsome as your GM. People make a list of impact players grabbed later on, well here's another list of our 1st sections in each draft.

 

1st pick - top 18: CJ Mosley (17), Joe Flacco (18), Haloti Ngata (12), Terrell Suggs (10), Jamal Lewis (5), Travis Taylor (10), Chris McAlester (10), Duane Starks (10), Jonathan Ogden (4)

8/9 of those guys were great selections. That's batting 88%.

 

1st pick - 19-32: Breshad Perriman (26), Matt Elam (32), Courtney Upshaw (35, traded back from 29), Jimmy Smith (27), Sergio Kindle (43, traded back from 25), Michael Oher (23), Ben Grubbs (29), Mark Clayton (22), Dwan Edwards (51, traded original 1st rd pick), Kyle Boller (19) Ed Reed (24), Todd Heap (31)

4/12 Ozzie hit on (Not counting Perriman yet). Batting 33%.

 

Winning out would probably put us at right about 20 and not making the playoffs. I can't fault someone for wanting to win, and yes we get impact guys thought the draft, but don't tell me us picking higher doesn't matter that much. It clearly does.

well put.

[pizzle9249]

About this losing thing everyone seems to be forgeting they are allowing him to trade comp picks he gonna take advantage of that big time he is the wiz

[Tenacious Faulker]

I've been saying the same thing for a while. I've argued with Ravens fans over this and can;t believe that with this team's success they would prefer a miserable season for a risky draft pick. I'd rather go 8-8 and miss the play-offs than lose out just to pick in the top 5. Why? I'm glad you asked:

1) Rd1 picks don't always work out. 70% don;t live up to their pick and many are flat out busts.

2) The Ravens have had great success and haven;t had a losing season in the Flacco-Harbaugh era. I don't want that to change. Some things are sacred and winning is one. 8-8 is not a losing season but it will be a victory if they can achieve at least that mujch.

3) The Ravens are not yet out of the playoff picture. If there's even the slightest chance then they need to go for it. Granted, it doesn't look good with Seattle, Pittsburgh and Cincy on the schedule but they've proven to be beatable.

4) Who in this draft is worth an abysmal record? If Fournette was in it this year I might be tempted to Fail for Fournette but this isn't the year for guaranteed super studs. I'd rather have the bragging rights of winning than take a 70% shot at a bust.

Let's stop the loser talk. It's not smart football management and is at best a whiner's way out of the season.

[burnstr19]

If the NFL is a business - then treat it like one.

[20306cab]

Kendrick Lewis "never quits" being a mediocre safety.

[DrinkmoreBeer]

Hmmmm.....the Cheatriots regularly pick at the end of the round and yet they're SB contenders almost every year. Why is that?

[FloridalovesRavens]

Drinkmorebeer...simple...they cheat lol. They also have a weaker division.

[ravenpic]

Can you remember Bert Jones stepping out of the end zone for a safety in order to lose in order for the Colts to make it the playoffs? Wasn't it against the Lions? I know the NFL changed things but I remember the Colts had to lose to make the playoffs. With a chance still alive for a Ravens playoff berth we can't let up yet. Stranger things have happened. What was the deal that forced the Colts into a must lose situation? Anybody remember.

[J.O.14]

Hmmmm.....the Cheatriots regularly pick at the end of the round and yet they're SB contenders almost every year. Why is that?

Honestly, and I hate him as much as any other Ravens fan, but the reason is Tom Brady. Plain and simple. We can hate him as much as we want, and bash him as much as we want, but he is the best QB in the game today and maybe ever. The guy is damn good. He was throwing to no name receivers Sunday night and still almost pulled off the win against that Broncos defense. Yeah they have pulled strings and pushed rules to the limit, but I'm just pointing out the obvious.

[J.O.14]

Here is the main reason I would like to be choosing early in the draft. If we get a top 10 pick, that means we will be picking in the top 10 in every round. IMO, there can be a big difference in talent at the beginning of the 3rd or 4th round compared to selections at the end of those rounds. It would be nice to get two picks out of the first 42 selections. You can get two stars that early in the draft. If we can trade our comp picks, it would also be easier to get back into the first round if we decided to do so. We wouldn't have to give up quite as much as we would if we picked later in the 2nd round.

[steelcityraven]

1st pick - 19-32: Breshad Perriman (26), Matt Elam (32), Courtney Upshaw (35, traded back from 29), Jimmy Smith (27), Sergio Kindle (43, traded back from 25), Michael Oher (23), Ben Grubbs (29), Mark Clayton (22), Dwan Edwards (51, traded original 1st rd pick), Kyle Boller (19) Ed Reed (24), Todd Heap (31)

4/12 Ozzie hit on (Not counting Perriman yet). Batting 33%.

I am not sure what criteria you are using to come up with your 33% success rate???

Perriman is too early to say if he is a hit or miss... Elam probably also to early... at minimum he has been a starter for us and is projected to be a major contributor... Upshaw is a starter for us... Jimmy Smith a starter for several years now and a probwol type CB at times... Kindle (an injury cut his career short)... Grubbs has been a multiple time pro bowler... CLayton started many years for us and was our top WR for several...never a probowl type but is that the criteria?? Edwards was picked at 51 nearly the end of round 2.... does he even count??? Oher a multiple timeprobowler. Boller was our starting QB for years... maybe not a probowler but again... hope that is not the criteria... ED REED probably the best S to ever play the game. Todd Heap...is in our ring of honor...

that is 9 starters, 4 pro bowlers, 2 ring of honor inductees and 1 HOFer... and 2 too early to tell...out of 12 players... Not sure how you came up with 33% (even if you just go probowlers...you subtract Elam and Perriman from he total (too early) that is 4 out of 10 or 40%... with the potential for more (Jimmy at least if not Perriman) if just those two would ever make the pro bowl that would be 6 out of 12 or 50%... that means every other pick (regardless of late round or not) would make the probowl.... I believe that any GM would take that!

[cec327]

"Your Kidding...Right?"

Of course and that's my point. Schaub came in and did a decent job. Flacco has made crucial mistakes as well as great plays. He's not Joe but he is a good backup as he demonstrated --when was the last time he started a game? Ravens made a smart move to get him, contrary to what many on this site said when he was signed.

[AsianRice]

Totally and wholeheartedly agree with John said in the article; never giving up mentality is way of how the Ravens win so many big games in the past. Our team made me proud past Monday even we aren't the playoff team...

[letitgosometimes]

It is simple: if you win, you lose. If you lose, you win.

[smalljaws]

"Playing(losing)for the future" is the mantra of those who never played the game.

[RavensBaltimore]

Honestly, and I hate him as much as any other Ravens fan, but the reason is Tom Brady. Plain and simple. We can hate him as much as we want, and bash him as much as we want, but he is the best QB in the game today and maybe ever. The guy is damn good. He was throwing to no name receivers Sunday night and still almost pulled off the win against that Broncos defense. Yeah they have pulled strings and pushed rules to the limit, but I'm just pointing out the obvious.

The Patriots went 11-5 the year Brady got hurt, and he relies on short, easy throws, so he is not the reason. They have a great coaching staff, in terms of leadership and x's and o's, and they make smart front office moves. Kind of like us, they don't overpay for players and they value draft picks. Being in the AFC East and cheating have been factors as well. Having stability at qb is obviously a factor, but it isn't just one thing. I read on this site that our formula for hiring and developing scouts actually came from Bill Belichick. It obviously works, as the Ravens have won the most playoff games in the last 7 years, and the Patriots have won the second most.

 

It's funny that Brady gets credit for throwing to no name receivers and almost pulling off a win, when Flacco's receivers have been far worse, and he has almost pulled off the win in every game, yet he gets no credit at all. I also wouldn't call the most dominant pass catcher in the league a "no name". Back to my point about Brady not being the reason they win consistently, all of his TD's in that game were gimmes. One was an easy throw to Gronk against single coverage, and Gronk broke a tackle and took it to the house, and the other 2 were all Josh McDaniels, as he came up with the idea to make Denver's linebackers cover deep down the field, getting a TE and an RB wide open, for an easy pitch and catch. Every qb in the league could have made those throws. That's about knowing who you are, having the right coaching staff and personnel that fits what you do, and being smart and flexible enough to make quick adjustments that best suit your players. Brady is just lucky to be a part of it.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Play like a Raven!!! If you didn't know...now you know. Great article.

[purpledown]

i hope we go on a run win all the rest of our games, playing for draft position is for losers, and the Ravens are not losers, no matter what the record says. Go Ravens

[J.O.14]

The Patriots went 11-5 the year Brady got hurt, and he relies on short, easy throws, so he is not the reason. They have a great coaching staff, in terms of leadership and x's and o's, and they make smart front office moves. Kind of like us, they don't overpay for players and they value draft picks. Being in the AFC East and cheating have been factors as well. Having stability at qb is obviously a factor, but it isn't just one thing. I read on this site that our formula for hiring and developing scouts actually came from Bill Belichick. It obviously works, as the Ravens have won the most playoff games in the last 7 years, and the Patriots have won the second most.

 

It's funny that Brady gets credit for throwing to no name receivers and almost pulling off a win, when Flacco's receivers have been far worse, and he has almost pulled off the win in every game, yet he gets no credit at all. I also wouldn't call the most dominant pass catcher in the league a "no name". Back to my point about Brady not being the reason they win consistently, all of his TD's in that game were gimmes. One was an easy throw to Gronk against single coverage, and Gronk broke a tackle and took it to the house, and the other 2 were all Josh McDaniels, as he came up with the idea to make Denver's linebackers cover deep down the field, getting a TE and an RB wide open, for an easy pitch and catch. Every qb in the league could have made those throws. That's about knowing who you are, having the right coaching staff and personnel that fits what you do, and being smart and flexible enough to make quick adjustments that best suit your players. Brady is just lucky to be a part of it.

When Gronk went down, he was throwing to nobody. Yeah it is the system he plays in, but he also makes the reads, changes protection/play calls, finds open receivers, and makes extremely quick decisions. He works his tail off, and that obviously shows. The way he gets the ball out so quick is unreal. I don't know if you have noticed either, but he is pretty good in the 4th quarter of games. Everyone can point to the 2009 season and say that it is the system, but if Brady is playing I guarantee they have  a lot more success. They have been to 4 championship games in a row, and compete/beat everyone they play. Yeah they are in the AFC East, but when you go to 4 championship games in a row you are beating more than the AFC East. I know I am taking up for Brady here, but I think the Patriots are just as lucky to have him as he is the Patriots system. The guy is damn good, whether you want to downplay his success or not.

[RavensBaltimore]

Hmmmm.....the Cheatriots regularly pick at the end of the round and yet they're SB contenders almost every year. Why is that?

You could say the same thing about us. In fact, we have won more playoff games since Flacco was drafted than they have, and we play in a much tougher division and have had much worse luck with injuries.

[balfan23]

Losing on purpose is clearly not an option. Being happy about it isn't an option either. I'll just say, I view the prospect of a better pick as a small consolation for watching us lose on a regular basis.