Why Vernon Hargreaves (CB) might be the best player in the Draft

[Cillmatic]

You really think Ed reed hit the ground running? These kids coming out of college aren't HOF players yet it takes time to become ed reed. I'd say ed reed wasn't ed reed until his 3rd year. Expecting your first round pick to be an above average player is all you can ask for, Hell ozzie didn't even like ed reed that much he was their 3rd or 4th option.

No, Ed was a good player off the back. Ramsey, as you said would be fine as an "above average" player. Ozzie not wanting him just shows that Ozzie was bad at evaluating DB's that season. Edited December 24, 2015 by Cillmatic

[Deflated Football]

WalterFootball's latest mock has us taking VH3 at 4 and then Josh Doctson with our second pick. I'd be in love with our draft already.

[Xmadraven]

WalterFootball's latest mock has us taking VH3 at 4 and then Josh Doctson with our second pick. I'd be in love with our draft already.

 

Ew and ew. I love walterfootball but ewwww. I don't think we need a secondary player with our first pick, I love VH3 but come on man. Josh doctson is coming out of TCU's gimmicky offense he's a pure upside player no thanks. 

[PurpleCity5]

WalterFootball's latest mock has us taking VH3 at 4 and then Josh Doctson with our second pick. I'd be in love with our draft already.

VH3 could bery well be the best on the board and Docston would be really good in the 2nd. Thats a mighty fine draft

[Xmadraven]

No, Ed was a good player off the back. Ramsey, as you said would be fine as an "above average" player. Ozzie not wanting him just shows that Ozzie was bad at evaluating DB's that season.

 

Ozzie hasn't drafted a successful defensive back for us since 2011 with jimmy smith. He's been hit or miss for the positon for a while.

[Xmadraven]

VH3 could bery well be the best on the board and Docston would be really good in the 2nd. Thats a mighty fine draft

Bosa>VH3 Doctson ew.

[PurpleCity5]

Ozzie hasn't drafted a successful defensive back for us since 2011 with jimmy smith. He's been hit or miss for the positon for a while.

We have also not had the luxury of drafting one high. 

[PurpleCity5]

Bosa>VH3 Doctson ew.

Obviously I prefer Bosa over Hargreaves, but if he is not there then oh well. 

[Deflated Football]

Bosa>VH3 Doctson ew.

So if Bosa and Tunsil are gone when we pick who would you like?

[Xmadraven]

We have also not had the luxury of drafting one high. 

 

So? You can get quality DBs anywhere if you're lucky/smart. See chris harris JR. 

[Xmadraven]

So if Bosa and Tunsil are gone when we pick who would you like?

Assuming both are gone which is likely if we pick lower than 4 or even at 3. 

 

Assuming we pick at 3 I think we'd be forced into Hargreaves, He's a top 6 player on my board but I'm not crazy about DBs that high. But still gotta be him given the other options just don't line up with our needs (I love deforest buckner though...But e don't need d-lineman thankfully)

[PurpleCity5]

So? You can get quality DBs anywhere if you're lucky/smart. See chris harris JR. 

We did get Webb off the 3rd round and found Corey Graham off the practice squad. Also, there are not many Chris Harris Jr.'s out there. How many un-drafted CBs can you name me that are in the pro bowl as of now outside of Harris Jr? Look at all the Pro Bowl CBs and look at how high they went. You can find quality CBs in the later rounds, but most of the time they are found in the bottom of the 1st and sometimes very early 1st and rarely in the late 2nd. 

[Xmadraven]

We did get Webb off the 3rd round and found Corey Graham off the practice squad. Also, there are not many Chris Harris Jr.'s out there. How many un-drafted CBs can you name me that are in the pro bowl as of now outside of Harris Jr? Look at all the Pro Bowl CBs and look at how high they went. You can find quality CBs in the later rounds, but most of the time they are found in the bottom of the 1st and sometimes very early 1st and rarely in the late 2nd. 

 

We signed corey Graham in FA as a special teamer. My point was you can find any kind of player later in the draft, Plus we have potential at CB with will davis and shareece wright+ Webb and Smith who are solid players when healthy/on top of their game. 

 

CB Night train lane was an undrafted rookie, There aren't many modern examples because many players just simply aren't given a chance. 

[BmoreBird22]

You really think Ed reed hit the ground running? These kids coming out of college aren't HOF players yet it takes time to become ed reed. I'd say ed reed wasn't ed reed until his 3rd year. Expecting your first round pick to be an above average player is all you can ask for, Hell ozzie didn't even like ed reed that much he was their 3rd or 4th option.

Even JJ Watt didn't kill it in year one and as a prospect, I saw many people question his fit in Houston

[PurpleCity5]

We signed corey Graham in FA as a special teamer. My point was you can find any kind of player later in the draft, Plus we have potential at CB with will davis and shareece wright+ Webb and Smith who are solid players when healthy/on top of their game. 

 

CB Night train lane was an undrafted rookie, There aren't many modern examples because many players just simply aren't given a chance. 

I don't feel we can avoid getting a CB without actually finding one. Saying, "hey we can just find one in the later rounds or just rely on an undrafted rookie" is how we got to this point. I don't know if we can just do that and find a good CB honestly. I also don't even know if Webb will be back and Jimmy has his problems with injuries. We need a CB who can not only move Webb to safety but provide depth as well.

[Cillmatic]

Great film study of Hargreaves:

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2015/09/11/rsp-film-room-no-56-florida-cb-vernon-hargreaves/

He's the most polished corner in a long time.

[JoeyFlex5]

I laugh so hard at the notion of "don't pick any player at a certain position because Ozzie hasn't done well there recently"

That is seriously the most laughable thing I've ever heard when it comes to the draft

[January J]

I laugh so hard at the notion of "don't pick any player at a certain position because Ozzie hasn't done well there recently"

That is seriously the most laughable thing I've ever heard when it comes to the draft

that really bugs the hell out of me too. Like we are permanently banned from taking a receiver in the first round.

[Ravenseconbeast]

The way Hargreaves play reminds me of this years (at suppose to be DPOY) Tyrann Matthieu

 

He is always on the ball, every play is an impact of some sort.   He is incredibly tenacious and has a knack to make plays.

 

I would have no problem taking a risk on him as our 1st pick.   

[GrimCoconut]

The way Hargreaves play reminds me of this years (at suppose to be DPOY) Tyrann Matthieu

 

He is always on the ball, every play is an impact of some sort.   He is incredibly tenacious and has a knack to make plays.

 

I would have no problem taking a risk on him as our 1st pick.   

I kinda see the same type of player, although Mathieu was better in college at forcing turnovers than Hargreaves. 

[Xmadraven]

 

 

 

I don't feel we can avoid getting a CB without actually finding one. Saying, "hey we can just find one in the later rounds or just rely on an undrafted rookie" is how we got to this point. I don't know if we can just do that and find a good CB honestly. I also don't even know if Webb will be back and Jimmy has his problems with injuries. We need a CB who can not only move Webb to safety but provide depth as well.

 

Webb will be back since we can't cut him without taking a loss on the salary cap, Of course jimmy does but you have to assume he'll stay healthy for 10-ish games. We have four solid-ish CBs plus whatever in FA we add. We're fineish/ok at CB for next year (Trust me I don't love it long term but we have other stuff to adress) Webb is our best slot/Nickel CB. Moving him to S is kinda redundant.

 

 

 

Even JJ Watt didn't kill it in year one and as a prospect, I saw many people question his fit in Houston

 

J.J watt is the NFL's best player he's an exception.

[Xmadraven]

I laugh so hard at the notion of "don't pick any player at a certain position because Ozzie hasn't done well there recently"

That is seriously the most laughable thing I've ever heard when it comes to the draft

 

It's not a horrible thing, Because A if you spend enough picks on a position and nothing pans out something's wrong with your evaluation of that position or something is off. I think we can all agree Ozzie isn't great at scouting WRs or our Scouting department isn't. Whether it's pure dumb luck or whatever, It's something of note. Just to prove this torrey smith is the best reciever ozzie ever drafted, Hopefully Breshad disproves that... But considering he had drops in college and basically lost a year of devlopment that's not looking great right now. Oh yeah and after torrey smith it gets depressing as hell. ANYWAY 

 

that really bugs the hell out of me too. Like we are permanently banned from taking a receiver in the first round.

 

I really thought ozzie would stick to his M.O sign/trade for WRs in FA/June and had something planned (Trade during the draft) I was even more suprised when I saw it was Denzel Perryman....and I laughed cause I thought I was right about ozzie...Wrong perriman (Dang ESPN) and it was BRESHAD and ESPN screwed up the pick. Everybody breaks from the trends once in a while. So thus ozzie's gonna shock the world again this draft season.

[JoeyFlex5]

It's not a horrible thing, Because A if you spend enough picks on a position and nothing pans out something's wrong with your evaluation of that position or something is off. I think we can all agree Ozzie isn't great at scouting WRs or our Scouting department isn't. Whether it's pure dumb luck or whatever, It's something of note. Just to prove this torrey smith is the best reciever ozzie ever drafted, Hopefully Breshad disproves that... But considering he had drops in college and basically lost a year of devlopment that's not looking great right now. Oh yeah and after torrey smith it gets depressing as hell. ANYWAY 

 

 

I really thought ozzie would stick to his M.O sign/trade for WRs in FA/June and had something planned (Trade during the draft) I was even more suprised when I saw it was Denzel Perryman....and I laughed cause I thought I was right about ozzie...Wrong perriman (Dang ESPN) and it was BRESHAD and ESPN screwed up the pick. Everybody breaks from the trends once in a while. So thus ozzie's gonna shock the world again this draft season.

if your only method of adding wr's is via free agency, then you are paying big bucks for a 2nd contract, or you are paying an old receiver who will only be there a short time. the goal of signing a veteran retread should be to have a veteran presence playing a complementary role, now SSS turned out way better than that, but do you see another SSS in this years market? the teams only chance to get a good, long term wr who wont cost the team a ridiculous amount of money is via the draft, if you have money invested in ur QB and OL, then you simply cant afford to pay FA WRs to be your #1 and 2, you have to choose whether you want a stacked team and weak qb, a qb with no defense, a qb with good weapons who is running for his life(steelers?), or a qb who can sit comfortably in the pocket with nobody to throw to. it sucks but a full, well balanced team with a starting qb is basically impossible

Edited December 26, 2015 by JoeyFlex5

[Ravenseconbeast]

It's not a horrible thing, Because A if you spend enough picks on a position and nothing pans out something's wrong with your evaluation of that position or something is off. I think we can all agree Ozzie isn't great at scouting WRs or our Scouting department isn't. Whether it's pure dumb luck or whatever, It's something of note. Just to prove this torrey smith is the best reciever ozzie ever drafted, Hopefully Breshad disproves that... But considering he had drops in college and basically lost a year of devlopment that's not looking great right now. Oh yeah and after torrey smith it gets depressing as hell. ANYWAY

I really thought ozzie would stick to his M.O sign/trade for WRs in FA/June and had something planned (Trade during the draft) I was even more suprised when I saw it was Denzel Perryman....and I laughed cause I thought I was right about ozzie...Wrong perriman (Dang ESPN) and it was BRESHAD and ESPN screwed up the pick. Everybody breaks from the trends once in a while. So thus ozzie's gonna shock the world again this draft season.

Most top tier CBs in the league are mostly all 4th rd or later, with exception of very few late 1st rounders.

[GrimCoconut]

I don't feel we can avoid getting a CB without actually finding one. Saying, "hey we can just find one in the later rounds or just rely on an undrafted rookie" is how we got to this point. I don't know if we can just do that and find a good CB honestly. I also don't even know if Webb will be back and Jimmy has his problems with injuries. We need a CB who can not only move Webb to safety but provide depth as well.

Webb will be back since we can't cut him without taking a loss on the salary cap, Of course jimmy does but you have to assume he'll stay healthy for 10-ish games. We have four solid-ish CBs plus whatever in FA we add. We're fineish/ok at CB for next year (Trust me I don't love it long term but we have other stuff to adress) Webb is our best slot/Nickel CB. Moving him to S is kinda redundant.

J.J watt is the NFL's best player he's an exception.

Cutting Webb saves us $3.5M if we cut him next year. Not sure where you got the idea that he causes us to lose money unless you are talking about the $6M we are obligated to pay him.

[Xmadraven]

if your only method of adding wr's is via free agency, then you are paying big bucks for a 2nd contract, or you are paying an old receiver who will only be there a short time. the goal of signing a veteran retread should be to have a veteran presence playing a complementary role, now SSS turned out way better than that,  you see another SSS in this years market? the teams only chance to get a good, long term wr who wont cost the team a ridiculous amount of money is via the draft, if you have money invested in ur QB and OL, then you simply cant afford to pay FA WRs to be your #1 and 2, you have to choose whether you want a stacked team and weak qb, a qb with no defense, a qb with good weapons who is running for his life(steelers?), or a qb who can sit comfortably in the pocket with nobody to throw to. it sucks but a full, well balanced team with a starting qb is basically impossible

 

Well that's pretty much what the ravens have done our entire history is add WRs in FA/Via trades with the exception of torrey smith. I'm more in the favor of signing veterans to be compliment to the stud young WR you drafted but obviously haven't done that. It's not impossible if you're lucky as hell. I'd say the steelers did a very good job of doing that, if everyone was fully healthy they'd have the best offense in the league. (And probaly do without some of those guys) 

 

Most top tier CBs in the league are mostly all 4th rd or later, with exception of very few late 1st rounders.

 

It varies for CBs I've said you can find CBs later in the draft.

 

Cutting Webb saves us $3.5M if we cut him next year. Not sure where you got the idea that he causes us to lose money unless you are talking about the $6M we are obligated to pay him.

 

Guess I got his 2015 cap mixed up. Still unless webb becomes a truly awful corner it won't make sense to cut him., The ravens will be stupid enough to cut monroe as well probaly.

[JoeyFlex5]

Doesn't mean you give up. If a good wr is there then you take him. Perriman actually did appear to be one of the top remaining guys on a pretty barren board, as seems to be the case with most of our first round picks lately(aside from Elam and upshaw), and just because he got injured doesn't mean he's a bad player, nor does it mean that every wr we take will share the same outcome. We NEED a wr and db and we won't fill those holes via fa, therefore we draft for it

[Inqui]

Doesn't mean you give up. If a good wr is there then you take him. Perriman actually did appear to be one of the top remaining guys on a pretty barren board, as seems to be the case with most of our first round picks lately(aside from Elam and upshaw), and just because he got injured doesn't mean he's a bad player, nor does it mean that every wr we take will share the same outcome. We NEED a wr and db and we won't fill those holes via fa, therefore we draft for it

The idea that the FO should avoid drafting WRs from now on just because Perriman got hurt (and some guys back in the days of Dilfer sucked) is a really strange one. No-one thinks the next OLB we draft will share the same fate as Sergio Kindle, so I'm not sure where the idea of Perriman's injury meaning we shouldn't touch WRs in the draft comes from.

[PurpleCity5]

The idea that the FO should avoid drafting WRs from now on just because Perriman got hurt (and some guys back in the days of Dilfer sucked) is a really strange one. No-one thinks the next OLB we draft will share the same fate as Sergio Kindle, so I'm not sure where the idea of Perriman's injury meaning we shouldn't touch WRs in the draft comes from.

This is not the first time I've heard this. I've heard it here, and even from some media members that Ozzie should not draft a WR or some other position simply because the Ravens are not good at finding talent at that said position. This is rediculous idea and I really would be upset if we actually did this. If we are really avoiding guys because we feel that we cannot hit on a position, then I'm calling for whomever is responsible resignition.

[RaineV1]

If Perriman becomes everything he was drafted to be - a large, fast, downfield target that can make big plays - would that change the way people think of us drafting WRs? Or would they just say he's the exception and we still shouldn't?