Eugene Monroe - the workout warrior

[Inqui]

Assuming we lose K.O., if we draft a LT, we would probably play him at LG the first year like we did with Ogden.

Depends on the LT imo. I'm the president of the Ronnie Stanley fan club atm, but personally I'm dubious about how he'd fare at LG. If we came away with Tunsil I'd agree fully with that, but there are some players I think we'd effectively redshirt with Urschel sliding in to LG.

[Inqui]

That's my sentiment as well. His availability will likely continue being a concern moving forward, but saving $2 million by cutting an above-average LT just doesn't seem to outweigh the benefits of keeping him, at least until the year after. Honestly, I doubt it would be as much of an issue if we didn't have one of the worst players at the position backing him up. I think the position will be solidified if we find a capable reserve.

Yeah I don't see any scenario in which he isn't on the roster next season. Even the 2017 season wouldn't completely stun me tbh. But yeah, staying healthy next season will be a huge part of defining his longer-term future with us. If we can find an upgrade without going overboard with it (ie, if the right guy falls to us in the draft) I'm not opposed to taking it, but otherwise an upgrade on Hurst is all we need.

[Maryland]

according to that article he was signed within an hour of FA opening.

 

not sure if that is what people can call testing FA lol.

 

Refer to Tru because it's exactly what I said

Keep in mind there is a legal tampering period before FA opens, a span of about 3 days. So basically it's 1 hour + 3 days. Monroe tested the market and came back disappointed. 

[Tru11]

Keep in mind there is a legal tampering period before FA opens, a span of about 3 days. So basically it's 1 hour + 3 days. Monroe tested the market and came back disappointed. 

 

legal tampering period aint the same as FA.

 

a lot of things arent allowed in that period that are allowed in FA.

 

He did not test FA at all.

He only got a glimpse of what could be expected if he tested FA.

 

If he actually decided to test FA he most likely would have earned  more then we gave him either from us or some other team with more cap space.

[Maryland]

legal tampering period aint the same as FA.

 

a lot of things arent allowed in that period that are allowed in FA.

 

He did not test FA at all.

He only got a glimpse of what could be expected if he tested FA.

 

If he actually decided to test FA he most likely would have earned  more then we gave him either from us or some other team with more cap space.

The legal tampering period is basically the same as FA. Agents contact GMs to see who is interested and can agree in-principle on deals that cannot become official until FA officially begins. This is why there are many signings made within the first hour of FA--they have already been hashed-out during the legal tampering period.

 

At one point it was doubtful that Monroe would sign with the Ravens. It took other pieces falling into place (mainly Albert to the Dolphins) for Monroe to come back for what Oz offered him. 

[Tru11]

The legal tampering period is basically the same as FA. Agents contact GMs to see who is interested and can agree in-principle on deals that cannot become official until FA officially begins. This is why there are many signings made within the first hour of FA--they have already been hashed-out during the legal tampering period.

 

At one point it was doubtful that Monroe would sign with the Ravens. It took other pieces falling into place (mainly Albert to the Dolphins) for Monroe to come back for what Oz offered him. 

 

Its not the same lol

 

in FA players can actually talk to teams and set days for visits and such.

agents are actually allowed to negotiate deals and use offers as bargain chips against other teams to get more money.

 

there are restrictions in the tampering period to what teams/players/agents are allowed to do which pretty muck makes it different then FA.

 

Also Monroe kept talking to the ravens the entire process.

So he did not come back since he never left the negotiating table ....

[Maryland]

Its not the same lol

 

in FA players can actually talk to teams and set days for visits and such.

agents are actually allowed to negotiate deals and use offers as bargain chips against other teams to get more money.

 

there are restrictions in the tampering period to what teams/players/agents are allowed to do which pretty muck makes it different then FA.

 

Also Monroe kept talking to the ravens the entire process.

So he did not come back since he never left the negotiating table ....

It's basically the same. In theory, the legal tampering period allows for non-specific values and details to be exchanged with no specific contracts to be offered and agreed to, but it has always been more than that, even when there was no legal tampering period.

 

It's no secret that agents contact and negotiate with teams, working out the minutiae of their contracts during the legal tampering period. No one can prove they're doing it as they have plausible deniability, but no one even cares if they are anyway, since everyone does it. The NFL is even at the point now where they're just going to allow actual negotiations to take place because everyone violates the rules anyway.

 

I mean, reports informing the public of explicit details such as contract length, total salary, and guaranteed money are tweeted out literally within minutes of FA officially beginning. Do you really think teams/agents are hammering out specific details and submitting contracts all of this within minutes of FA beginning? You would be naive to think so. 

Edited December 11, 2015 by Maryland

[Tru11]

It's basically the same. In theory, the legal tampering period allows for non-specific values and details to be exchanged with no specific contracts to be offered and agreed to, but it has always been more than that, even when there was no legal tampering period.

 

It's no secret that agents contact and negotiate with teams, working out the minutiae of their contracts during the legal tampering period. No one can prove they're doing it as they have plausible deniability, but no one even cares if they are anyway, since everyone does it. The NFL is even at the point now where they're just going to allow actual negotiations to take place because everyone violates the rules anyway.

 

I mean, reports informing the public of explicit details such as contract length, total salary, and guaranteed money are tweeted out literally within minutes of FA officially beginning. Do you really think teams/agents are hammering out specific details and submitting contracts all of this within minutes of FA beginning? You would be naive to think so. 

 

Basically the same is still not the same no matter how much you want to spin it....

 

Monroe was not allowed to talk directly to other teams nor was he allowed to set up and attend meetings with other teams to be courted.

 

something which is allowed once FA starts.

 

Mathis from the eagles is a prime example of someone who went in FA and used us to get what he wanted from the Eagles.

 

He and his agents where actually allowed to take our contract offer and show it to the eagles and ask them to match or better it.

 

During the tampering process its not allowed to use this tactic cause teams would have all the evidence they need to file tampering charges lol.

 

Its actually funny cause during that period tampering charges fly around and some teams actually got punished for tampering.

 

During the tampering period there still are limitations which prevent players from exploring FA to its fullest potential.

 

Also lets be real here.

If a player really want to explore FA there really is no rush to get a deal done during the tampering period nor would he sign a deal within an hour of FA opening.

 

If monroe really wanted to test FA he would have done it and probably got more then what he got from us.

LT always get paid and there where enough teams having more cap then us and in need of an LT ...

Edited December 11, 2015 by Tru11

[BmoreBird22]

Yeah, didn't want to argue because I felt it was largely semantics...

But what I said is Monroe signed within hours of free agency, which is true. The NFL has an official date and time for when free agency begins and he signed within hours of that deadline.

There is no "technically it starts before then" because the NFL has an official start.

And that's what I was talking about, but Tru has it covered

[rmcjacket23]

Basically the same is still not the same no matter how much you want to spin it....

 

Monroe was not allowed to talk directly to other teams nor was he allowed to set up and attend meetings with other teams to be courted.

 

something which is allowed once FA starts.

 

Mathis from the eagles is a prime example of someone who went in FA and used us to get what he wanted from the Eagles.

 

He and his agents where actually allowed to take our contract offer and show it to the eagles and ask them to match or better it.

 

During the tampering process its not allowed to use this tactic cause teams would have all the evidence they need to file tampering charges lol.

 

Its actually funny cause during that period tampering charges fly around and some teams actually got punished for tampering.

 

During the tampering period there still are limitations which prevent players from exploring FA to its fullest potential.

 

Also lets be real here.

If a player really want to explore FA there really is no rush to get a deal done during the tampering period nor would he sign a deal within an hour of FA opening.

 

If monroe really wanted to test FA he would have done it and probably got more then what he got from us.

LT always get paid and there where enough teams having more cap then us and in need of an LT ...

Yeah, not really.

 

1. There's a three day window when players (or at least their agents) can negotiate with other teams, which is the legal tampering window. Monroe utilized this.

 

2. Within the first hour of FA opening, all of the teams that needed a LT largely signed one (us included), so if Monroe had waited, his value would decrease, not increase. There weren't barely any teams seeking a LT in his price range left after the first hour of FA was over. There's a good chance, realistically, that he would have settled for a deal equal or less than what he got from us. 

 

If you historically look at a graph of the contracts handed out in relation to how quickly they are announced once the FA period opens, you'd see a pretty steep, downward sloping line for the most part. The longer you wait in FA, the lower your deal typically is.

 

To me, the "official" FA start date is relatively meaningless. Anybody who doesn't have a contract is having their agent discuss terms with other teams (regardless of legal or illegal), and for the most part, they have a very good understanding of their market value long before FA hits.

 

To be honest, there's really no difference between what Monroe did and what Torrey or McPhee did. None of them were under contract, they all allowed themselves to be FAs through the "legal tampering" period in which they could receive official offers from opposing teams, and they signed on day 1. 

 

Would you say McPhee and Torrey tested FA? I would. The only difference between them and Monroe is that Monroe re-signed with the team he was with. Other than that, all three of them played FA the same way.

 

I'd consider somebody to have not tested FA if they never made it to the point where other teams could negotiate with them. Somebody like Joe Flacco never tested FA, because he never got to the point where he was actually getting legal offers from other teams (though, again, agents I'm sure have a feeler out for these kinds of things).

 

In my judgment, if you get to the legal tampering period and are taking offers from other teams, you've largely tested FA.

[Tru11]

Yeah, not really.

 

1. There's a three day window when players (or at least their agents) can negotiate with other teams, which is the legal tampering window. Monroe utilized this.

 

2. Within the first hour of FA opening, all of the teams that needed a LT largely signed one (us included), so if Monroe had waited, his value would decrease, not increase. There weren't barely any teams seeking a LT in his price range left after the first hour of FA was over. There's a good chance, realistically, that he would have settled for a deal equal or less than what he got from us. 

 

If you historically look at a graph of the contracts handed out in relation to how quickly they are announced once the FA period opens, you'd see a pretty steep, downward sloping line for the most part. The longer you wait in FA, the lower your deal typically is.

 

To me, the "official" FA start date is relatively meaningless. Anybody who doesn't have a contract is having their agent discuss terms with other teams (regardless of legal or illegal), and for the most part, they have a very good understanding of their market value long before FA hits.

 

To be honest, there's really no difference between what Monroe did and what Torrey or McPhee did. None of them were under contract, they all allowed themselves to be FAs through the "legal tampering" period in which they could receive official offers from opposing teams, and they signed on day 1. 

 

Would you say McPhee and Torrey tested FA? I would. The only difference between them and Monroe is that Monroe re-signed with the team he was with. Other than that, all three of them played FA the same way.

 

I'd consider somebody to have not tested FA if they never made it to the point where other teams could negotiate with them. Somebody like Joe Flacco never tested FA, because he never got to the point where he was actually getting legal offers from other teams (though, again, agents I'm sure have a feeler out for these kinds of things).

 

In my judgment, if you get to the legal tampering period and are taking offers from other teams, you've largely tested FA.

 

we can talk semantics all we want but the fact remains there are things allowed in FA that are not allowed during the tampering period which means they are similar but still not the same.

 

also the only date that matters is the 1 set by the NFL.

 

what you feel , what 1 feel or what someone else feels is the actual start of NFL does not matter cause it aint official.

 

if we go by the date set by the league he barely tested FA since he was gone within an hour.

After that its just a matter of personal opinion on what 1 truly considers testing FA.

[rmcjacket23]

we can talk semantics all we want but the fact remains there are things allowed in FA that are not allowed during the tampering period which means they are similar but still not the same.

 

also the only date that matters is the 1 set by the NFL.

 

what you feel , what 1 feel or what someone else feels is the actual start of NFL does not matter cause it aint official.

 

if we go by the date set by the league he barely tested FA since he was gone within an hour.

After that its just a matter of personal opinion on what 1 truly considers testing FA.

Well, I mean, as far as I can tell, the only thing allowed in FA that isn't allowed during the tampering period is putting pen to paper. Other than that, I don't see much difference.

 

I understand that what we feel doesn't matter, but this entire argument has nothing to do with whats official or not. This entire argument has been a subjective argument about whether Monroe tested FA or not. 

 

My point is simply that he tested FA to the exact same level that other players that signed on day 1 did. If you don't feel that's accurate, so be it. I'm merely pointing out that I would bet that you think Torrey Smith and Pernell McPhee tested FA as would others. And realistically, there's virtually no difference between what they did and what Monroe did.

 

If we want to go by the "technical" aspect of this, we actually have no idea when Monroe actually signed his contract, thus making it official. Until he signs it, nothing is official. So even if they announced he had resigned an hour into FA, he may not have signed the contract for a week or two for all I know.

 

So technically, he may have tested FA for a full week or more for all we know. All we go by is when the media announces it to us, nothing more.

Edited December 11, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[rmw10]

Sounds like he's heading to IR. Questions about whether he'll be back next year as well.

[PurpleCity5]

This is insane. WTH is up with this guy? Not trying to sound rude but he has been durible in Jacksonville and didn't have problems with injuries, now he comes here and he can't play a snap. I can't imagine how frustrated the guy feels.

[BmoreBird22]

This is insane. WTH is up with this guy? Not trying to sound rude but he has been durible in Jacksonville and didn't have problems with injuries, now he comes here and he can't play a snap. I can't imagine how frustrated the guy feels.

I feel like the Ravens routinely send a large amount of starters to IR

[descent into the maelstrom]

I feel like the Ravens routinely send a large amount of starters to IR

Hopefully, having real grass will help cut down on that a bit.

 

As far as Monroe is concerned, I'm happy to have him go to IR so that he doesn't risk getting even more banged up over the remaining few, at this point meaningless, games. 

[PurpleCity5]

I feel like the Ravens routinely send a large amount of starters to IR

Too many high caliber players on this team have been sent to the IR its insane. You can't win anything with season ending injuries to your most important guys, I don't care who you are, its tough to survive.

[Sami84]

Sounds like he's heading to IR. Questions about whether he'll be back next year as well.

 

we cant deal with so many holes next year . he leaves? so KO is leaving too?

 

meh..we have to re-sign KO draft one of stanley/tunsil if thats the case

[rmw10]

we cant deal with so many holes next year . he leaves? so KO is leaving too?

 

meh..we have to re-sign KO draft one of stanley/tunsil if thats the case

 

I don't think it makes sense to move on from Monroe just yet.  I don't see the $2.2M savings being worth it unless we plan on dumping some other bad contracts.  Even if he's here though, I don't think that'll prevent us from drafting one of the top guys assuming we want one of them.  I think KO is as good as gone, though.

 

It's just an interesting situation and I'm curious to see how we approach everything the offseason.

[ellicottraven]

I don't think it makes sense to move on from Monroe just yet.  I don't see the $2.2M savings being worth it unless we plan on dumping some other bad contracts.  Even if he's here though, I don't think that'll prevent us from drafting one of the top guys assuming we want one of them.  I think KO is as good as gone, though.

 

It's just an interesting situation and I'm curious to see how we approach everything the offseason.

I don't beleive the Ravens are moving away from Monroe - not next year! No matter who we draft at LT (including Tunsil), it is imperative that we keep Monroe (hopefully not sitting games out) again next year so the next LT can work his way into the position. It is near impossible for a rookie to man that position successfully in his first year. So, Monroe will be paid regardless of what he ends up doing with his motivation to play this game.... that is just what our situation is unfortunately.

[rmw10]

I don't beleive the Ravens are moving away from Monroe - not next year! No matter who we draft at LT (including Tunsil), it is imperative that we keep Monroe (hopefully not sitting games out) again next year so the next LT can work his way into the position. It is near impossible for a rookie to man that position successfully in his first year. So, Monroe will be paid regardless of what he ends up doing with his motivation to play this game.... that is just what our situation is unfortunately.

 

For sure.  I think that's the best thing to do.  It's hard count on him to be on the field consistently, but I don't see $2.2M being worth it.  That leaves Hurst, or as you said, a developing rookie out there, and I'd prefer not to do that.

[ellicottraven]

It was just reported that Eugene Monroe has been listed as "out" again this week against Seattle. I don't see him suiting up again this season. Perhaps will volunteer himself into "IR" based on the expert advice of his agent and his personal doctor.

 

I still don't get why Monroe sought to get a different opinion and another MRI on his shoulder? Is it because the team doctors didn't find anything on his first MRI on the shoulder? Or has he just been seeing team doctors? I only wonder because Harbaugh specifically mentioned his doctor in the presser....

[rmw10]

Zrebiec is all over Twitter saying that he thinks his time here is done.  Interesting to note one tweet where he questioned Monroe's fit here.  Said he never really bought in and that Castillo said that Monroe was still learning how to play like a Raven.  Zrebiec thinks it's in the best interest of both parties to move on.

[ellicottraven]

Zrebiec is all over Twitter saying that he thinks his time here is done.  Interesting to note one tweet where he questioned Monroe's fit here.  Said he never really bought in and that Castillo said that Monroe was still learning how to play like a Raven.  Zrebiec thinks it's in the best interest of both parties to move on.

Still learning how to play like a Raven can be defined as he'll never play like a Raven! Wow Castillo said that??

[Cillmatic]

Looks like we're stuck with this guy. Another bad signing. Hooray!

Edited December 12, 2015 by Cillmatic

[BmoreBird22]

Hopefully, having real grass will help cut down on that a bit.

 

As far as Monroe is concerned, I'm happy to have him go to IR so that he doesn't risk getting even more banged up over the remaining few, at this point meaningless, games. 

 

 

Too many high caliber players on this team have been sent to the IR its insane. You can't win anything with season ending injuries to your most important guys, I don't care who you are, its tough to survive.

I just feel like guys with no injury history (Jimmy, Monroe) come to Baltimore and start up this massive history of injury.

Some can't be helped, like Joe's torn ACL, but the medical staff and conditioning worry me. Zuttah had sustained a chest injury in one game and was cleared to play in Jax game and then proceeds to tear his pectoral muscle. That's a concern to me, especially after the Perriman situation. I don't trust the medical staff.

[ccflraven]

This team is always tight against the cap and has zero superstars.

[PurpleCity5]

I just feel like guys with no injury history (Jimmy, Monroe) come to Baltimore and start up this massive history of injury.

Some can't be helped, like Joe's torn ACL, but the medical staff and conditioning worry me. Zuttah had sustained a chest injury in one game and was cleared to play in Jax game and then proceeds to tear his pectoral muscle. That's a concern to me, especially after the Perriman situation. I don't trust the medical staff.

I hear ya on Jimmy and Monroe. Just does not make sense at all. I don't know how much blame you can put on the medical staff for season ending injuries lately but they have had some slip ups this year with Perriman and what not. I don't see us moving on from Monroe this year, the cap savings are small and we have no replacement. I think he is bound to get shipped off it we draft a LT though.

[PurpleCity5]

This team is always tight against the cap and has zero superstars.

I agree somewhat. We need to get some superstars on this team. I can't name that many on the roster quite honestly.

[Moderator 3]

I just feel like guys with no injury history (Jimmy, Monroe) come to Baltimore and start up this massive history of injury.

Some can't be helped, like Joe's torn ACL, but the medical staff and conditioning worry me. Zuttah had sustained a chest injury in one game and was cleared to play in Jax game and then proceeds to tear his pectoral muscle. That's a concern to me, especially after the Perriman situation. I don't trust the medical staff.

Maybe it's just that they get older and have more wear and tear.