The Matt Schaub Thread

[callahan09]

If you need 33 points to win a game. Matt Schuab isnt the problem. We had the same discussion about Joe.

Schaub threw a pick 6, so really our defense only gave up 20 points.  We didn't turn the ball over our first time against them, so our defense was responsible for all 33 points given up.  Schaub was only a part of 20 points on offense, the other 13 were special teams TDs, and he did throw a usually game-losing INT on his last play of the game that led to the winning field goal attempt for the Browns, and he lucked out that our special teams was clutch and got the win for him instead of us losing the game.  Defense was better this game than in our first against them, offense was worse, special teams were the real difference this week.

[callahan09]

Actually was thinking the same thing; this system is absolutely perfect for Schaub. Hopefully he can have a bit of a career resurgence over the next few weeks

The system is good for Schaub, but he was wildly inaccurate yesterday.  He also benefited from a lot of wide open receivers and receivers making awesome plays after the catch yesterday.  Against better teams & defenses (seriously, Browns are absolutely one of the worst defenses in the league right now, they were atrocious last night letting our playmakers ball all over them, even with an inaccurate QB) he will have to clean up the accuracy big time.  I don't have a lot of confidence, honestly.  And the O line was blocking great last night, as well.  That was the biggest surprise to me.  Honestly, that game was just the story of the Browns defense being totally checked out.  We play a real defense, that O line is going to crumble, the receivers aren't going to be nearly that open, and Schaub will be in trouble if he can't find some accuracy on those throws.  I will say this... his mental game is pretty strong and impressive.  He made some big mistakes in this game, but didn't seem to get mentally hurt by them, he kept focused.  The problem is his arm.

Edited December 1, 2015 by callahan09

[Prino61]

what I can say is that hes a really nice guy, I asked him if he could pick me three apples off the tree and he picked six lmmao J/K

 

Being from the Houston area i was able to see the good and the bad Matt Schaub.

He has a bad habit of staring down the WR, will lay down when the pocket collapse(literally) and bad decisions under pressure, If we can give him some time in the pocket he can win games

[flynismo]

The system is good for Schaub, but he was wildly inaccurate yesterday.  He also benefited from a lot of wide open receivers and receivers making awesome plays after the catch yesterday.  Against better teams & defenses (seriously, Browns are absolutely one of the worst defenses in the league right now, they were atrocious last night letting our playmakers ball all over them, even with an inaccurate QB) he will have to clean up the accuracy big time.  I don't have a lot of confidence, honestly.  And the O line was blocking great last night, as well.  That was the biggest surprise to me.  Honestly, that game was just the story of the Browns defense being totally checked out.  We play a real defense, that O line is going to crumble, the receivers aren't going to be nearly that open, and Schaub will be in trouble if he can't find some accuracy on those throws.  I will say this... his mental game is pretty strong and impressive.  He made some big mistakes in this game, but didn't seem to get mentally hurt by them, he kept focused.  The problem is his arm.

No doubt, and it is bewildering how these guys can never get open when Flacco is playing . I dont have much faith either, especially after what I saw, but who knows, stranger things have happened....he's one of us, so I want to see him succeed

[Militant X 1]

No doubt, and it is bewildering how these guys can never get open when Flacco is playing . I dont have much faith either, especially after what I saw, but who knows, stranger things have happened....he's one of us, so I want to see him succeed

 

Flacco and Schaub are two different QB's as we all know.  With that being said Fly, to me; Schaub seems to be more decisive with his reads and releases the ball more quickly.  He's that type of QB so that's why the receivers are "open" for him and not for Flacco.  Again to me; Joe tends to hold onto the ball too long and the blame goes to the so-called "unopened" and "lack of getting separation" receivers.  But with Schaub they were open.  Go figure!

[ravensdfan]

Flacco and Schaub are two different QB's as we all know.  With that being said Fly, to me; Schaub seems to be more decisive with his reads and releases the ball more quickly.  He's that type of QB so that's why the receivers are "open" for him and not for Flacco.  Again to me; Joe tends to hold onto the ball too long and the blame goes to the so-called "unopened" and "lack of getting separation" receivers.  But with Schaub they were open.  Go figure!

Actually Flacco's release is faster:

 

2.62 to Schaub's 2.67

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

 

I think it is a combination of things: Browns D is a shell of its former self with injuries of their own, Schaub's arm is not that strong so the routes are not as long, Brown isn't on the field, and seems to me more RB/FB checkdowns for Schaub.

[BSHU_Miami]

Yeah joe carved up this same Browns team this year like he has his whole career. Schuab was exactly who I thought he was. And the Browns without Haden are exactly who I thought they were. Schuab threw a lot of ducks too.

[flynismo]

Flacco and Schaub are two different QB's as we all know.  With that being said Fly, to me; Schaub seems to be more decisive with his reads and releases the ball more quickly.  He's that type of QB so that's why the receivers are "open" for him and not for Flacco.  Again to me; Joe tends to hold onto the ball too long and the blame goes to the so-called "unopened" and "lack of getting separation" receivers.  But with Schaub they were open.  Go figure!

 

Joe wouldnt be holding onto the ball so long if he had someone to throw to...it was one game, against a terrible defense; if the receivers suddenly are getting open every week, then maybe you're onto something...

I dont know if Schaub is more decisive, or is just unable to go throw all of the reads and find the best option due to his physical limitations...kind of like early in Flacco's career, people thought if his first option wasnt open, he'd dump it off to Rice

Edited December 2, 2015 by flynismo

[beanfigger]

Flacco and Schaub are two different QB's as we all know. With that being said Fly, to me; Schaub seems to be more decisive with his reads and releases the ball more quickly. He's that type of QB so that's why the receivers are "open" for him and not for Flacco. Again to me; Joe tends to hold onto the ball too long and the blame goes to the so-called "unopened" and "lack of getting separation" receivers. But with Schaub they were open. Go figure!

Pretty sure Schaub's release is actually slower than Flacco's, so yeah, go figure.

EDIT: I see someone already posted that. Didn't mean to pile on.

Anyway, I think the play-calling was the bigger difference last night. Seem the coaches decided to focus more on the strengths of their receivers and do what works for them, rather than constantly just trying to "work on" Flacco as though that would somehow resolve the whole offense.

Edited December 2, 2015 by beanfigger

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Actually Flacco's release is faster:

 

2.62 to Schaub's 2.67

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

 

I think it is a combination of things: Browns D is a shell of its former self with injuries of their own, Schaub's arm is not that strong so the routes are not as long, Brown isn't on the field, and seems to me more RB/FB checkdowns for Schaub.

 

We might have one or two more wins if we'd started Butler over Brown. At least Butler has to be accounted for as he can get open against #3 CBs. All Brown can do is block (which he does very well).

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Here's an interesting one.

Matt Schaub is very likely to hit his incentives now. If he plays 5% of the snaps for the season, he gets $500K. If he gets up to 10%, he earns his full $1M in incentives. That'll happen pending health. Matt Schaub playing is going to cost us an additional $1M against the cap next year since we can't carry it over...

Well it's not going to cost us $1 mill against next years cap... It'll cost against this years, but it's $1 mill that we could have otherwise carried over.

I'm sure that's what you mean, but just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

[Tru11]

Actually Flacco's release is faster:

 

2.62 to Schaub's 2.67

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

 

I think it is a combination of things: Browns D is a shell of its former self with injuries of their own, Schaub's arm is not that strong so the routes are not as long, Brown isn't on the field, and seems to me more RB/FB checkdowns for Schaub.

 

 

Pretty sure Schaub's release is actually slower than Flacco's, so yeah, go figure.

EDIT: I see someone already posted that. Didn't mean to pile on.

Anyway, I think the play-calling was the bigger difference last night. Seem the coaches decided to focus more on the strengths of their receivers and do what works for them, rather than constantly just trying to "work on" Flacco as though that would somehow resolve the whole offense.

 

decision making and throwing motion are 2 different things.

 

as many of you have pointed out flacco does not trust his receivers other then steve smith so for example he usually waits a second longer to see if the guy is open before throwing.

 

schaub i guess aint got a thing to loose so he is probably not waiting that extra second to see what the receiver is doing before throwing it.

it will make it seem receivers are open more because of this but the flip side is that if read wrong you end up with ints lol.

 

think this is what mili was saying rather then talking about their throwing motion/release.

[beanfigger]

decision making and throwing motion are 2 different things.

as many of you have pointed out flacco does not trust his receivers other then steve smith so for example he usually waits a second longer to see if the guy is open before throwing.

schaub i guess aint got a thing to loose so he is probably not waiting that extra second to see what the receiver is doing before throwing it.

it will make it seem receivers are open more because of this but the flip side is that if read wrong you end up with ints lol.

think this is what mili was saying rather then talking about their throwing motion/release.

Do you think the 2+ seconds is how long their throwing motions take? C'mon, man. That's the time from snap to release. It obviously doesn't take over two seconds for the QB to move his arm forward once he decides to throw. (Full disclosure, I am making the same argument as the other guy you quoted, and I know his link is from past years, but it still holds true.)

Therefore, you just made the argument for us with the rest of your explanation. Flacco gets rid of it quicker.

Edited December 2, 2015 by beanfigger

[Tru11]

Do you think the 2+ seconds is how long their throwing motions take? C'mon, man. That's the time from snap to release. It obviously doesn't take over two seconds for the QB to move his arm forward once he decides to throw. (Full disclosure, I am making the same argument as the other guy you quoted, and I know his link is from past years, but it still holds true.)

Therefore, you just made the argument for us with the rest of your explanation. Flacco gets rid of it quicker.

 

 

flacco has a faster throwing motion but only a 0.05 faster release then schaub.

this means schaub makes a faster decision then flacco to get rid of the ball.

 

throwing motion and decision making go hand in hand when you talk about a release.

 

also those stats are from 2012...

 

its really quite possible that in 2015 schaub might actually have slightly faster release then flacco right now.

 

again its not really a suprise as most have mentioned that the offense and play calling probably suits him better...

 

BTW im trying to show you what mili was trying to say.

he is focussing more on the decision making part.

its not my point...

Edited December 2, 2015 by Tru11

[beanfigger]

flacco has a faster throwing motion but only a 0.05 faster release then schaub.

this means schaub makes a faster decision then flacco to get rid of the ball.

throwing motion and decision making go hand in hand when you talk about a release.

also those stats are from 2012...

its really quite possible that in 2015 schaub might actually have slightly faster release then flacco right now.

again its not really a suprise as most have mentioned that the offense and play calling probably suits him better...

BTW im trying to show you what mili was trying to say.

he is focussing more on the decision making part.

its not my point...

I mentioned all that already, and Mili was saying that perhaps it's because Schaub got rid of the ball earlier that the receivers seemed more open. Therefore, it has nothing to do with how much of the time is decision making and how much is throwing motion. The receivers are at the part of their route regardless by the time the ball gets out, which is what I'm talking about. If the ball is out faster with Flacco, then that point about the receivers being open early doesn't hold water. Those old numbers were posted by someone else. I was referring to this year and what I've seen.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

I love this discussion although it frustrates me. 

 

I know Schaub throws a lot of interceptions but even if we had kept Tyrod he had happy feet when pressured and was known to throw interceptions as well. Even Flacco i think has more interceptions then TD's this year and is not a "complete" QB.

 

We just need to play on Schaubs strengths. There is not a situation he has not encountered before. He still has very good mechanics and could be a asset to our team.

 

We have a base that could work to benefit both Schaub and the club. To me become that run first team. Keep the passes short and quick. Play action would be awesome. We have Forsett for finesse and Allen for extra protection as he is a great guy to pick up pass rushers. Both Allen and Forsett have very good hands out of the back field. We have the best trio of TE's in the league to utilize.

 

So god forbid it but if Flacco's injury lingers we could still put a winning offense together IMO.

[Tru11]

I mentioned all that already, and Mili was saying that perhaps it's because Schaub got rid of the ball earlier that the receivers seemed more open. Therefore, it has nothing to do with how much of the time is decision making and how much is throwing motion. The receivers are at the part of their route regardless by the time the ball gets out, which is what I'm talking about. If the ball is out faster with Flacco, then that point about the receivers being open early doesn't hold water. Those old numbers were posted by someone else. I was referring to this year and what I've seen.

 

so do you think flacco has a faster or slower throwing motion then schaub?

[beanfigger]

Even Flacco i think has more interceptions then TD's this year and is not a "complete" QB.

 

 

14 TDs to 12 Ints

[beanfigger]

so do you think flacco has a faster or slower throwing motion then schaub?

 

This is a different conversation than what I was discussing, but it's a good question.

 

I do think it's close with Flacco's maybe slightly faster. Maybe Schaub is faster this year than in years past. It is very similar to my eyes between the two.

[Militant X 1]

Flacco and Schaub are two different QB's as we all know.  With that being said Fly, to me; Schaub seems to be more decisive with his reads and releases the ball more quickly.  He's that type of QB so that's why the receivers are "open" for him and not for Flacco.  Again to me; Joe tends to hold onto the ball too long and the blame goes to the so-called "unopened" and "lack of getting separation" receivers.  But with Schaub they were open.  Go figure!

 

Joe wouldnt be holding onto the ball so long if he had someone to throw to...it was one game, against a terrible defense; if the receivers suddenly are getting open every week, then maybe you're onto something...

I dont know if Schaub is more decisive, or is just unable to go throw all of the reads and find the best option due to his physical limitations...kind of like early in Flacco's career, people thought if his first option wasnt open, he'd dump it off to Rice

 

Didn't you asked earlier Fly "why can't these guys get open for Flacco when he's playing?"  Now, you're saying he has no one to throw to.  C'mon!  lol!  Schaub threw to the same cats on the field that Flacco had minus Smith, Sr. and Brown and they were open.

 

Pretty sure Schaub's release is actually slower than Flacco's, so yeah, go figure.

EDIT: I see someone already posted that. Didn't mean to pile on.

Anyway, I think the play-calling was the bigger difference last night. Seem the coaches decided to focus more on the strengths of their receivers and do what works for them, rather than constantly just trying to "work on" Flacco as though that would somehow resolve the whole offense.

 

I mentioned all that already, and Mili was saying that perhaps it's because Schaub got rid of the ball earlier that the receivers seemed more open. Therefore, it has nothing to do with how much of the time is decision making and how much is throwing motion. The receivers are at the part of their route regardless by the time the ball gets out, which is what I'm talking about. If the ball is out faster with Flacco, then that point about the receivers being open early doesn't hold water. Those old numbers were posted by someone else. I was referring to this year and what I've seen.

 

Yeah go figure!  Cause.....If the receivers are at the point of their routes (as you mention here Bean) when the ball is out faster with Flacco, then why is the argument about the receivers "not being open" or "the receivers can't get any separation" when playing with Flacco constantly being made in here in his defense?  And yet, for Schaub (at least against the Browns) they seemingly were getting open.

[Militant X 1]

so do you think flacco has a faster or slower throwing motion then schaub?

 

I think that Schaub's "throwing motion" is faster.

[beanfigger]

Didn't you asked earlier Fly "why can't these guys get open for Flacco when he's playing?"  Now, you're saying he has no one to throw to.  C'mon!  lol!  Schaub threw to the same cats on the field that Flacco had minus Smith, Sr. and Brown and they were open.

 

 

 

Yeah go figure!  Cause.....If the receivers are at the point of their routes (as you mention here Bean) when the ball is out faster with Flacco, then why is the argument about the receivers "not being open" or "the receivers can't get any separation" when playing with Flacco constantly being made in here in his defense?  And yet, for Schaub (at least against the Browns) they seemingly were getting open.

 

That's the whole question I, and others, have been asking. I'm saying it does not have to do with the release time. I did mention I think play calling played a role in this, but mostly I think the receivers played a great game against a really bad defense. Are you telling me you didn't think the receivers were more open in the last game than they have been most of this year? If so, I guess we have been just seeing things completely differently.

[beanfigger]

I think that Schaub's "throwing motion" is faster.

 

With all the next gen stat stuff out there, I'm sure there is an actual measurement of this somewhere out there. I can't find it. Tru seems to have found something from a few years ago that stated Flacco had a slightly faster throwing motion, but I can't find that, either. These two guys look very similar to me. Maybe closer than most QB comparisons that can be made.

[Tru11]

With all the next gen stat stuff out there, I'm sure there is an actual measurement of this somewhere out there. I can't find it. Tru seems to have found something from a few years ago that stated Flacco had a slightly faster throwing motion, but I can't find that, either. These two guys look very similar to me. Maybe closer than most QB comparisons that can be made.

 

ravensdfan is the 1 who posted a link from a few years ago that said flacco had a quicker release lel.

 

i actually think flacco has the faster throwing motion while schaub makes decisions slightly faster although the last couple of years the decisions he makes are nothing to write home about....

 

think schaub is more willing to make the throw before the WR is actually open which gives the illusion the WR was open but it also leads to his vintage picks.

[January J]

Well it's not going to cost us $1 mill against next years cap... It'll cost against this years, but it's $1 mill that we could have otherwise carried over.

I'm sure that's what you mean, but just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

Unless we bench him for clausen right before he hits the 10% lol...nahh that would be pretty dirty...unless he keeps throwing pick 6's... Which isn't too far fetched.

I don't know who's " throwing motion" is faster but Did any else notice that there was absolutely no velocity on any of Schaubs balls?

[beanfigger]

ravensdfan is the 1 who posted a link from a few years ago that said flacco had a quicker release lel.

i actually think flacco has the faster throwing motion while schaub makes decisions slightly faster although the last couple of years the decisions he makes are nothing to write home about....

think schaub is more willing to make the throw before the WR is actually open which gives the illusion the WR was open but it also leads to his vintage picks.

There was no illusion on Monday. Our guys were running wide open, especially early on in the game.

[BmoreBird22]

There was no illusion on Monday. Our guys were running wide open, especially early on in the game.

Part of it is that Schaub took pretty much ONLY three and five step drops and would hit the open receiver in the flat or on short routes. He wasn't going deep or taking chances often, at all. I commented in the game thread that this was the type of dink and dunk offense I didn't mind because it was efficient in moving the ball down the field with very simple throws.

If Schaub is getting it out faster, it's because he had very short drops and very quick reads that were designed to be like three yard routes. 

[beanfigger]

Part of it is that Schaub took pretty much ONLY three and five step drops and would hit the open receiver in the flat or on short routes. He wasn't going deep or taking chances often, at all. I commented in the game thread that this was the type of dink and dunk offense I didn't mind because it was efficient in moving the ball down the field with very simple throws.

If Schaub is getting it out faster, it's because he had very short drops and very quick reads that were designed to be like three yard routes.

Yes, as I've been saying, play design worked well. And yes, he did take a lot more short drop backs, so the ball did come out quickly. You are right.

Either way, the receivers were open. They have not been open all year. We were playing the Browns awful defense and ran a solid scheme. We even ran a double move on the deep route with Givens. I didn't know we had those in our playbook.

[Moderator 3]

Didn't you asked earlier Fly "why can't these guys get open for Flacco when he's playing?" Now, you're saying he has no one to throw to. C'mon! lol! Schaub threw to the same cats on the field that Flacco had minus Smith, Sr. and Brown and they were open.

Yeah go figure! Cause.....If the receivers are at the point of their routes (as you mention here Bean) when the ball is out faster with Flacco, then why is the argument about the receivers "not being open" or "the receivers can't get any separation" when playing with Flacco constantly being made in here in his defense? And yet, for Schaub (at least against the Browns) they seemingly were getting open.

I think this is an interesting question. Why were are receivers seemingly more open? I have a few theories that include ahorter, more simple routes, and more effort knowing they were playing with a backup.

[Edgar]

ravensdfan is the 1 who posted a link from a few years ago that said flacco had a quicker release lel.

 

i actually think flacco has the faster throwing motion while schaub makes decisions slightly faster although the last couple of years the decisions he makes are nothing to write home about....

 

think schaub is more willing to make the throw before the WR is actually open which gives the illusion the WR was open but it also leads to his vintage picks.

I think we are more likely to see him hit spots and to "throw guys open" with anticipatory throws than we are with Joe. Of course, Schaub doesn't have the same zip on throws that he once did.

He also throws the inexplicable pick regularly but so does Joe,(at least this year).