does flaccos injury change our draft strategy?

[JoeyFlex5]

I'm so godamn sick of people talking about trading back. Trade back for what? Anyone who has seen us play no we lack talent. How many comp picks are we going to get this year? 20? 30?. Enough is enough, we have enough picks. Pick the best player available

well, getting an extra 2nd round pick, and an extra first for next year, is absolutely worth passing up bosa or tunsil for ramsey or hargreaves or stanley. 3 firsts and 3 seconds over the next 2 drafts will do much more for us than just drafting bosa straight up. not to mention if we trade back, we probably wouldnt move back too far, moving from #2 to #5 would allow us to get a kings ransom PLUS high quality players, and if the team we trade with does badly next season, it guarantees us another high draft pick. its a win-win situation

[JoeyFlex5]

As for drafting a new QB, I'd like Brandon Allen of the Arkansas Razorbacks. I also like Connor Cook should he fall on draft day, which is possible. There seems to be a lot of criticism surrounding Cook and his future in the NFL. Both could come here and be groomed as potential starters or just insurance policies in the event Joe gets hurt.

While I understand the value of QB, Cook could very well fall on draft day like other guys propped as top prospects to only later fall.

As much as I want Boyd, if for some reason Goff fell on draft day I'd trade up from our second to get him so we'd have that fifth year option.

it would be VERY hard for me to say to pass on boyd with our 2nd round pick, he is nothing short of a first round talent falling for stupid reasons... HOWEVER, taking goff would be a bold and probably fruitful move, at the very least we have an able backup, and if we get back to dominance he can play in garbage time and run up some trade value, if not, we have a possible heir to the throne.

[GrimCoconut]

it would be VERY hard for me to say to pass on boyd with our 2nd round pick, he is nothing short of a first round talent falling for stupid reasons... HOWEVER, taking goff would be a bold and probably fruitful move, at the very least we have an able backup, and if we get back to dominance he can play in garbage time and run up some trade value, if not, we have a possible heir to the throne.

Yeah. I would have a tough time passing on Boyd but I think I would do it for only a few prospects. Goff, Ogbah, Sutton are names that immediately come to mind.

[Cillmatic]

As for drafting a new QB, I'd like Brandon Allen of the Arkansas Razorbacks. I also like Connor Cook should he fall on draft day, which is possible. There seems to be a lot of criticism surrounding Cook and his future in the NFL. Both could come here and be groomed as potential starters or just insurance policies in the event Joe gets hurt.

While I understand the value of QB, Cook could very well fall on draft day like other guys propped as top prospects to only later fall.

As much as I want Boyd, if for some reason Goff fell on draft day I'd trade up from our second to get him so we'd have that fifth year option.

Why would we waste a high pick on a QB? Is he starting? Is Flacco getting traded?

[GrimCoconut]

Why would we waste a high pick on a QB? Is he starting? Is Flacco getting traded?

Well, quality back-up if Flacco goes down, doesn't return to form (unlikely imo), & for future development. I know we have needs but I'm not talking top five pick. I'm saying I'd trade up depending on the player. If Goff is there, he's one I'd trade up to get due to the fifth year.

Just because you and I would like us to go in a different direction and take a different position doesn't mean Goff wouldn't be a potentially great pick at the end of the first.

[JoeyFlex5]

Yeah. I would have a tough time passing on Boyd but I think I would do it for only a few prospects. Goff, Ogbah, Sutton are names that immediately come to mind.

i wouldnt pass on boyd for sutton, id possibly consider it for goff if we had a legitimate reason for doing so.

[Cillmatic]

Well, quality back-up if Flacco goes down, doesn't return to form (unlikely imo), & for future development. I know we have needs but I'm not talking top five pick. I'm saying I'd trade up depending on the player. If Goff is there, he's one I'd trade up to get due to the fifth year.

Just because you and I would like us to go in a different direction and take a different position doesn't mean Goff wouldn't be a potentially great pick at the end of the first.

So you'd use a first round pick and countless other picks needed to trade into the first round for a quality backup for one of the most durable QB's in league history? Joe's a QB, he'll return to form. Plus he's still relatively young and will likely be good for another 5 years. Goff's also just not good enough. There will be better QB's in the next 5-6 years. We have actual holes to fill. QB is not one of them, it's a luxury, we don't have time for luxuries; We're a awful team. Drafting backup QB's in the first round isn't how you make a team good. Edited November 23, 2015 by Cillmatic

[TDubbs]

It's worth the thought, and I would like to see a QB taken in the 4-5 round range maybe to develop for a few years. Thing is Flacco has been playing at a high level this year imo, with a limited supporting cast. Put a rookie QB in that same situation and it will kill his development. 

[GrimCoconut]

So you'd use a first round pick and countless other picks needed to trade into the first round for a quality backup for one of the most durable QB's in league history? Joe's a QB, he'll return to form. Plus he's still relatively young and will likely be good for another 5 years. Goff's also just not good enough. There will be better QB's in the next 5-6 years. We have actual holes to fill. QB is not one of them, it's a luxury, we don't have time for luxuries; We're a awful team. Drafting backup QB's in the first round isn't how you make a team good.

It depends on who we're trading up to get, the price to trade up, and whether we feel the player we're trading up to get can be a franchise QB.

I'm all about getting better. I love Flacco and I want to surround him with talent as well. That said, I'd have no problem taking a guy like Goff if he's there at the end of the first if we think he'll be a franchise QB.

Then again, maybe my opinion changes come draft time. There's no black and white, set on stone opinion here. My opinion is constantly changing. Not sure why you're so adamantly against the idea. You seem quite narrow-minded to me. Just because I think it would make sense doesn't mean I'm advocating to get rid of Joe Flacco.

Edited November 23, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[GrimCoconut]

It's worth the thought, and I would like to see a QB taken in the 4-5 round range maybe to develop for a few years. Thing is Flacco has been playing at a high level this year imo, with a limited supporting cast. Put a rookie QB in that same situation and it will kill his development.

Yeah. I think that range is likely where we take one. We don't have a fifth round pick at this moment, so it'll likely have to be a fourth. I like Allen as a fit. I wouldn't rule out Cook as a guy who could fall to us in the third or even fourth. He could go earlier, but we've seen this story before with a guy like the UCLA QB last year whose name escapes me

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Yeah. I think that range is likely where we take one. We don't have a fifth round pick at this moment, so it'll likely have to be a fourth. I like Allen as a fit. I wouldn't rule out Cook as a guy who could fall to us in the third or even fourth. He could go earlier, but we've seen this story before with a guy like the UCLA QB last year whose name escapes me

Hundley .

And Cook is a lot better of a passer so I don't see it. I thought Hundley was good before, but the true freshman currently at UCLA is a hell of a lot better. Then any of these QBs....

[Inqui]

Yeah. I think that range is likely where we take one. We don't have a fifth round pick at this moment, so it'll likely have to be a fourth. I like Allen as a fit. I wouldn't rule out Cook as a guy who could fall to us in the third or even fourth. He could go earlier, but we've seen this story before with a guy like the UCLA QB last year whose name escapes me

Brett Hundley. I could have sworn he got picked in the third but he actually went in the fifth, which proves your point.

[GrimCoconut]

Hundley .

And Cook is a lot better of a passer so I don't see it. I thought Hundley was good before, but the true freshman currently at UCLA is a hell of a lot better. Then any of these QBs....

Yeah. I agree, but you honestly never know man. It's just a crap shoot where these guys go at times. I also like the QB Jeff Driskel.

[GrimCoconut]

Brett Hundley. I could have sworn he got picked in the third but he actually went in the fifth, which proves your point.

Yeah, I think we'll be okay. I'm not worried either way. Shoot, who knows, maybe Goff is the one who falls. I won't complain and don't even really care. I do think we should invest in a QB for the future, though, in the event of injury. Just because Joe's been durable doesn't mean he'll continue to be. I'm not overreacting after over injury, but this could mean he's getting older and more susceptible to injury, too. That's the elephant in the room nobody mentions.

I have faith in the team either way. Take a QB early or not and I'll still trust their judgement. They've earned it even after some of these recent drafts.

[thieverycorporation]

Now you all know (Cill,Joey,Grim) that some teams reach for need and there are plenty of Needy teams. So the likelihood of that happening is compounded by the staggering number this year. You have Washington, Browns, 49er's, Lions, Eagles  probably looking to move on from either their starters or from backups. And usually when there's one plucked draft day the run starts and the reaching and grabbing is almost until the position is depleted. Not every one of the teams will go that route (via draft) but some may deem it more cost effective to go that route. I'd select a Goff with our pick and then hold court to garner the ransom from one of them and basically hold all the cards. I'm sure Ozzie will have a bigger picture of the sweepstakes teams candidates are. He could possibly get picks and a player he want. I'm thinking he could fleece somebody and really there'd be nothing they could do about it except scoff. As the draft grows closer his telephone line would stay lit up. But i could see a lot of the options that have been mentioned reached for and thus un available to us, that would be worthy of maybe a 3rd or fourth. And the season isn't over so more injuries are bound to happen. Further depleting the possibilities.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Yeah. I agree, but you honestly never know man. It's just a crap shoot where these guys go at times. I also like the QB Jeff Driskel.

Driskel was atrocious at UF but I've heard he's been solid this year.

[BMoreDuck]

i doubt it, but its worth a thought... with flaccos mechanics regressing this year, you have to be concerned about his mechanics in the future, torn ACL to a qb often leads to an inability to step into a throw, its a bit worrisome...

so you have to wonder, will the ravens consider possibly trading back, getting a future first, and taking cook or goff? im not big on the idea, but it has to be in the back of someones mind at this point...

God, I hope not. I'm an Oregon fan and I live in Eugene so I've had a chance to see both Goff and Cook play live and I've watched them on TV on a few more occasions and I'll tell you right now, they are not franchise QBs. I don't even think they are 1st round QBs, but since this is such a down year for QBs, they'll both go in the 1st round. Goff is definitely the better of the two, but that's not saying much. I've never been impressed by Cook. Ivé said all along that he's overrated. Goff has a live arm, good mechanics, but he's inconsistent at times and tends to throw too high...a lot. He's going to be a pick machine in the league imo.

Honestly I won't even get into Cook because he shouldn't even be in consideration for our 1st rd pick. I think Joe will be fine. Modern medicene is top notch and athletes come back from torn ACLs and continue to play at an extremely high level. Joe still has a handful of good years ahead of him. The FO needs to do a better job of protecting him and finally get him some elite talent to throw the ball to. I love bringing in the vets like Mason, Boldin and SSS, but Joe needs a Julio Jones go to guy and then the vet guys can be extremely solid #2 receivers. Is Perriman that elite guy? Nobody knows.

He has the frame and the 40 time, but all of the film I've watched on him, he doesn't play like he has 4.2 speed. There's plenty of other receivers who are a lot more explosive out of their routes and at getting open. Maybe he can utilize his 4.2 speed on go routes, but a one dimensionsal receiver with questionable hands isn't an elite weapon imo. I'm not trying to put Perriman dowm, but I never saw him as a true #1 receiver. I think he could be a solid #2, but he's not on an elite level imo. Hope I'm wrong and he becomes the man, but I can't say I'm confident. And when the heck is he ever going to play? Who really knows what's going on with him?

Anyway, I got away from the OT. I would definitely not take Goff or Cook in the 1st round especially if it's to replace Joe. Maybe take one of them for trade bait, but that's the extent of it. If the Ravens were really wanting to get a QB to replace Joe, I'd want a kid like UCLAs Josh Rosen or Baylors Jarret Stidham, but they're both true freshman so there's no real way to guarantee getting them when they're eligible and there's no way to guarantee they'll stay healthy. Fwiw, if they both are healthy by the time they're eligible they are going to ball out at the next level. Rant done.

[GrimCoconut]

Now you all know (Cill,Joey,Grim) that some teams reach for need and there are plenty of Needy teams. So the likelihood of that happening is compounded by the staggering number this year. You have Washington, Browns, 49er's, Lions, Eagles  probably looking to move on from either their starters or from backups. And usually when there's one plucked draft day the run starts and the reaching and grabbing is almost until the position is depleted. Not every one of the teams will go that route (via draft) but some may deem it more cost effective to go that route. I'd select a Goff with our pick and then hold court to garner the ransom from one of them and basically hold all the cards. I'm sure Ozzie will have a bigger picture of the sweepstakes teams candidates are. He could possibly get picks and a player he want. I'm thinking he could fleece somebody and really there'd be nothing they could do about it except scoff. As the draft grows closer his telephone line would stay lit up. But i could see a lot of the options that have been mentioned reached for and thus un available to us, that would be worthy of maybe a 3rd or fourth. And the season isn't over so more injuries are bound to happen. Further depleting the possibilities.

I never liked the idea of drafting someone just to trade them. I suppose it could work, but I don't recall this ever happening and  being effective. Has it ever been? 

[GrimCoconut]

Driskel was atrocious at UF but I've heard he's been solid this year.

Yeah, he was bad. He has looked better, though. I think he could be had late. I was more or less thinking of him with a late-round pick, like a 6th or 7th. I wouldn't invest a high pick in him at all. 

[jazz1988]

For some reason I think Matt Schaub may actually play well but we shall see. I really don't know alot about this rookie draft class so far   but I expect The Ravens to probably draft a quarterback in the sixth round again like they did with Tyrod Taylor along with bringing in a veteran quarterback(could be Schaub again)

Edited November 23, 2015 by jazz1988

[GrimCoconut]

For some reason I think Matt Schaub may actually play well but we shall see. I really don't know alot about this rookie draft class so far   but I expect The Ravens to probably draft a quarterback in the sixth round again like they did with Tyrod Taylor along with bringing in a veteran quarterback(could be Schaub again)

If we bring back Matt "The Albatross" Schaub I will picket.

[allblackraven]

If we bring back Matt "The Albatross" Schaub I will picket.

Don't rule that out if he manages 2-3 wins in what's left of this season.

[GrimCoconut]

Don't rule that out if he manages 2-3 wins in what's left of this season.

Then I will be ready to picket. I hope Ozzie and John are ready. 

[thieverycorporation]

I never liked the idea of drafting someone just to trade them. I suppose it could work, but I don't recall this ever happening and  being effective. Has it ever been? 

Maybe by default. I know the saga with Elway, Eli manning comes to mind. I'look it up. 

Edited November 24, 2015 by thieverycorporation

[bMore Heathen]

This is how I feel. I'm just not impressed by this draft class at the top. I have questions about every single one of them, more so than in the past. The only one I really feel confident that won't bust is Hargreaves. Bosa is a guy I like but I don't see a major drop-off from him to a guy like Ogbah, who looks terrific as a pass rusher. Granted, Bosa is a better prospect, but I see a lot of qualities in Ogbah that may me say the drop-off is minimal comparatively speaking. Ramsey is a guy I love and I've called for a FS for years; however, he plays with a bad attitude at times and this could be a problem as a pro. He could be a penalty magnet and I'm not sure he has the range to be an Earl Thomas FS we expect of him; however, I do think he could be a Harrison Smith, who may actually be better than Thomas, so I have no problems with him. The thing is it's a deeper safety class than CB.

Tunsil and Stanley are two guys I like, but both have areas that concern me. Stanley needs lower body strength and even upper body strength to maintain his skill at the next level, and there's no telling if he can stay as good after adding on weight. Furthermore, Tunsil is a great prospect but he isn't as refined as Stanley in pass protection but he's a better run blocker and has a higher ceiling. Both LTs are subject to bust concerns since there hasn't been an elite, safe LT in literally years.

I hate this draft. I almost wish this happened last year or the year before so we could have Mack or Cooper.

I haven't really payed attention to Tunsil or Stanley, but do you think Tunsil or Stanley could project inside to G for a year or 2 until we can get out from Monroe's contract? I wouldn't be thrilled with taking a G in the top 5, but if he's the best prospect and there's no trade back options... I don't really think Monroe would project inside favorably, but we will most likely have a hole there, and it could be the biggest hole on the team.

[JoeyFlex5]

Don't rule that out if he manages 2-3 wins in what's left of this season.

it would be classic schaub fashion to do that, and ruin the teams hopes for a speedy comeback.

[JoeyFlex5]

I haven't really payed attention to Tunsil or Stanley, but do you think Tunsil or Stanley could project inside to G for a year or 2 until we can get out from Monroe's contract? I wouldn't be thrilled with taking a G in the top 5, but if he's the best prospect and there's no trade back options... I don't really think Monroe would project inside favorably, but we will most likely have a hole there, and it could be the biggest hole on the team.

but we dont HAVE to start monroe. if he gets beat out by a rookie, then it is what it is, we cant protect feelings here, these are adults getting paid millions and if monroe gets hurt far too often, then he will be giving up his job to a younger, healthier, and likely superior rookie. tunsil and stanley are both tackles, tunsil could play guard as a rookie for sure, but you have to field your best guys and if tunsil came here and outperformed monroe at LT then he needs to be on the field, idc what monroes contract looks like.

[bMore Heathen]

but we dont HAVE to start monroe. if he gets beat out by a rookie, then it is what it is, we cant protect feelings here, these are adults getting paid millions and if monroe gets hurt far too often, then he will be giving up his job to a younger, healthier, and likely superior rookie. tunsil and stanley are both tackles, tunsil could play guard as a rookie for sure, but you have to field your best guys and if tunsil came here and outperformed monroe at LT then he needs to be on the field, idc what monroes contract looks like.

I get what you're saying, but it would be foolish to just bench Monroe imo, especially since he has been pretty good when healthy. Problem is he can't stay healthy. Is it realalistic to think either of those rookies would beat him out in TC when he's fully healthy for the LT spot? It doesn't hurt to have a quality back up, but when we're talking about a top 5 pick...

[GrimCoconut]

I haven't really payed attention to Tunsil or Stanley, but do you think Tunsil or Stanley could project inside to G for a year or 2 until we can get out from Monroe's contract? I wouldn't be thrilled with taking a G in the top 5, but if he's the best prospect and there's no trade back options... I don't really think Monroe would project inside favorably, but we will most likely have a hole there, and it could be the biggest hole on the team.

I think so. I like Stanley more as a LG than Tunsil, but I think Tunsil could do it fine due to how he's a mauler and plays nasty. I think no matter who we take they'll play LT as a rookie because to be frank, Monroe deserves the injury-prone label now at this point.

[Inqui]

I think so. I like Stanley more as a LG than Tunsil, but I think Tunsil could do it fine due to how he's a mauler and plays nasty. I think no matter who we take they'll play LT as a rookie because to be frank, Monroe deserves the injury-prone label now at this point.

What part of Stanley's game makes you see him as a better LG than Tunsil? I see how he sometimes physically matches up and think he'd struggle more in the tighter spaces than Tunsil would, so I'm genuinely wondering what I'm missing here. I guess with our scheme favouring speed I could see the argument for Stanley though.