[News] Joe Flacco's Season Over With Knee Injury

[trevorsteadman]

This is not a negative critique it is just an observation. This is what happens when you don't have adequate replacements to sub when there is a need. We knew Hurst from last year and earlier this year and where he was okay, put him beside Jensen who is new and is beside Urschel who is also starting for the first time at center and you have a recipe for injuring your franchise qb. What do you do in a circumstance like that? Would anyone put in Schaub in that situation when the game could still be won? But in hindsight, was that victory over St Louis worth losing Joe for this year, all off season and perhaps the start of next season. Where we thought we would be drafting a receiver or left tackle with the second or third pick, now we have to consider whether drafting a top ranked QB is what we need to do to start preparing for the future. Joe is 30, is going to lose at least a year, then when he comes back it usually takes two full years to get to full strength. I haven't even looked at college qb's this year as I never thought it would even be a consideration, until last night.

I think Flacco plays at least 5 or 6 years in the NFL before considering hanging it up. He has been durable for the most part and I bet he will be healthy enough to start off next season. I doubt the Ravens look at a quarterback in the draft. Maybe in 3 years I could see it or if Flacco's contract negotiations go south but they already have been talking about renegotiation. I look to an O-Lineman or D-Lineman in the draft. Unless an Amari Cooper skilled wide receiver is there. If I had money it would be on D-lineman because they always draft in a position that you think they do not need then later realize it was a good pick. With Canty aging another D-lineman with Brandon Williams, Timmy Jernigan, and Carl Davis would be beneficial to the defense. I could also see them trading back and trying to double up in round one and trying to get a replacement for Suggs.

[The Mom Gene]

The day is fast approaching when knee braces become a standard part of an nfl uniform. The sheer number of ACL tears in this sport are staggering. They should certainly be a standard part of a quarterbacks armor. Especially the front knee.

Sad truth is....  You have focused so much on head injuries and "defenseless receivers"...  that people are now DIVING for legs and body to avoid the helmet to helmet hits.  You may be right.

[balfan23]

I know that the Ravens have never been the talk of the nation, even in the best of times. Still, you'd think this would warrant some commentary outside of Baltimore. The post game shows, the halftime on the Sunday night game and the Monday morning talk ... they've either failed to even mention this or just threw it out there in passing.

 

I would think Joe would warrant better than that, given what he's accomplished and given his consecutive games played streak. Throw in that Forsett broke his arm and you'd think the tragedy that this game was would be more newsworthy. Just a sign of how little attention we garner and how far this team has fallen in such a short period of time ...

[Moderator 3]

I know that the Ravens have never been the talk of the nation, even in the best of times. Still, you'd think this would warrant some commentary outside of Baltimore. The post game shows, the halftime on the Sunday night game and the Monday morning talk ... they've either failed to even mention this or just threw it out there in passing.

 

I would think Joe would warrant better than that, given what he's accomplished and given his consecutive games played streak. Throw in that Forsett broke his arm and you'd think the tragedy that this game was would be more newsworthy. Just a sign of how little attention we garner and how far this team has fallen in such a short period of time ...

At least USA Today had a nice story last night about how tough Joe is.

[mendii]

Sad truth is....  You have focused so much on head injuries and "defenseless receivers"...  that people are now DIVING for legs and body to avoid the helmet to helmet hits.  You may be right.

It's tough though, you know, to me I think the NFL made the call it absolutely had to make by forcing players to avoid head to head contact. However, I do agree with you that it is a problem how often players leave games with incredibly serious leg injuries nowadays. I guess injury is just an inherent part of two grown men running into each other at full speed, and I guess the answer could be to attack only the midsection of the body, but can anyone recall a season in which two different players went out with lacerated organs? It's a pick your poison kind of scenario, for my money I would rather a knee injury to myself than a brain/neck/spinal cord injury, though that's not to undermine the life changing impact a knee injury can have.  

[balfan23]

KO must be dinged up right now because Jensen was playing, but when he's healthy again we Really should give this a look see. I'm pretty sure that KO played LT in college so he Does have some experience at the position. So many people have seen the sense in this and suggested it, including myself. What are the coaches seeing in practice that doesn't want them to try it? I wonder. Have they just given up on the idea of re-signing KO? Perhaps, given Ozzie's past MO.

Here's the problem. We went all in on Monroe contract-wise and we won't have the cap space to sign KO. We're stuck with Monroe for next year and likely the year after that. Otherwise, we continue to put the dead money albatross around our neck. 

 

I know it is nice to think that we may go relatively high on an OT in the draft, as we can seem to count on Monroe to miss around 6 games a season and can't continue to put Hurst on the field that much ... but what about the secondary position? OLB? So many needs, so few draft picks. 

 

It is frustrating ... Monroe being paid to be a top tier LT and not consistently being on the field is a major contributor to our woes.

[Ravensfansince03]

The weapons need has been there for Flacco's whole career. The poor man needs better protection just as much. He is one tough hombre, but even His luck has run out on him in this season of horrors.

 

I would have to disagree with you bud, because throughout this season, Flacco has had little, to up to yesterday, no weapons. We have a good interior line, but we do need better Tackles, because guys like Monroe cannot stay healthy.

[Ravensfansince03]

Here's the problem. We went all in on Monroe contract-wise and we won't have the cap space to sign KO. We're stuck with Monroe for next year and likely the year after that. Otherwise, we continue to put the dead money albatross around our neck. 

 

I know it is nice to think that we may go relatively high on an OT in the draft, as we can seem to count on Monroe to miss around 6 games a season and can't continue to put Hurst on the field that much ... but what about the secondary position? OLB? So many needs, so few draft picks. 

 

It is frustrating ... Monroe being paid to be a top tier LT and not consistently being on the field is a major contributor to our woes.

 

Hopefully we can trade away Monroe. But if we are "stuck" with him and cannot sign Kelechi because of it, then that means we need a manger that can do a better job with the business side of things.

[rmcjacket23]

Here's the problem. We went all in on Monroe contract-wise and we won't have the cap space to sign KO. We're stuck with Monroe for next year and likely the year after that. Otherwise, we continue to put the dead money albatross around our neck. 

 

I know it is nice to think that we may go relatively high on an OT in the draft, as we can seem to count on Monroe to miss around 6 games a season and can't continue to put Hurst on the field that much ... but what about the secondary position? OLB? So many needs, so few draft picks. 

 

It is frustrating ... Monroe being paid to be a top tier LT and not consistently being on the field is a major contributor to our woes.

But the thing is, he's really not being paid as such...

 

From an AAV value of $7.5M, he's tied with Will Beatty for the 13th highest paid LT in the league.

 

He ranks 15th among LTs for guaranteed money on his deal, and 18th in terms of what percentage of his contract is guaranteed.

 

You can argue he's not living up to those numbers, and that might be valid. But I think there's this false perception by the fanbase that he is getting paid as a top tier LT. He more or less is getting paid like an average LT in this league, and when he's actually playing, that's basically what he is.

[balfan23]

But the thing is, he's really not being paid as such...

 

From an AAV value of $7.5M, he's tied with Will Beatty for the 13th highest paid LT in the league.

 

He ranks 15th among LTs for guaranteed money on his deal, and 18th in terms of what percentage of his contract is guaranteed.

 

You can argue he's not living up to those numbers, and that might be valid. But I think there's this false perception by the fanbase that he is getting paid as a top tier LT. He more or less is getting paid like an average LT in this league, and when he's actually playing, that's basically what he is.

But the thing is ... he isn't actually playing very much. 

[rmcjacket23]

But the thing is ... he isn't actually playing very much. 

Well, I mean, he's playing 12-13 games a season for us.

 

Frankly, $7.5M a year for 12-13 games for a LT isn't really that bad of value either.

[balfan23]

Well, I mean, he's playing 12-13 games a season for us.

 

Frankly, $7.5M a year for 12-13 games for a LT isn't really that bad of value either.

Let's look at snaps. For all of 2014, we have Monroe at 68.1% and Hurst at 34.7% (ESPN Snap count analysis), which amounts to 11 full games. For 2015 - not counting yesterday - we have Monroe at 42.5% and Hurst at 57.5% (Football Outsiders). That's on pace to play 7 full games this year. When he does play, he's middle of the road. 

 

From your comments earlier - he's paid at around 13th-15th in the league. Yes, that perhaps isn't by any definition "top-tier" but it is squarely in the upper half of the league. To me, paying in the upper half of the league for a guy that's average when he plays, but is only on the field around 2/3rds of the time (at best) .... that's not value. 

 

The situation is exacerbated by the fact that, when Hurst plays, he is a pretty significant liability. True, the man is on league minimum wage, but if the guy in front of him is going to be unavailable that much, we need someone better behind him. All things considered, LT is a position of weakness on this team and there are no easy fixes, especially given we have so many other areas of weakness to address. 

[rmcjacket23]

Let's look at snaps. For all of 2014, we have Monroe at 68.1% and Hurst at 34.7% (ESPN Snap count analysis), which amounts to 11 full games. For 2015 - not counting yesterday - we have Monroe at 42.5% and Hurst at 57.5% (Football Outsiders). That's on pace to play 7 full games this year. When he does play, he's middle of the road. 

 

From your comments earlier - he's paid at around 13th-15th in the league. Yes, that perhaps isn't by any definition "top-tier" but it is squarely in the upper half of the league. To me, paying in the upper half of the league for a guy that's average when he plays, but is only on the field around 2/3rds of the game (at best) .... that's just not value. 

 

The situation is exacerbated by the fact that, when Hurst plays, he is a pretty significant liability. True, the man is on league minimum wage, but if the guy in front of him is going to be unavailable that much, we need someone better behind him. All things considered, LT is a position of weakness on this team. 

Sure, the DEPTH at LT is a concern. I don't think cutting Monroe and searching for another is a viable option though, nor do I think the FO is considering that. 

 

Using a quality mid-round pick or signing a veteran to be a quality swing tackle? Sure, I'm all for it.

 

Using a first round pick on a LT? I don't think we're a better team next season by doing that.

[EliteRavens]

Heal up Flacco!

[balfan23]

Sure, the DEPTH at LT is a concern. I don't think cutting Monroe and searching for another is a viable option though, nor do I think the FO is considering that. 

 

Using a quality mid-round pick or signing a veteran to be a quality swing tackle? Sure, I'm all for it.

 

Using a first round pick on a LT? I don't think we're a better team next season by doing that.

I agree on that ... as a matter of fact, I stated as much in my first response to a previous post (where someone was saying we should sign KO, make him our LT and cut ties with Monroe). As I said in that post, we are all in on Monroe and cannot cut ties with him ... not next year and not likely even the year after, lest we take on a lot of dead money. 

 

I know there are a couple of big OT prospects in the draft that we could get high, but I also agree we are not likely to go that route. I think, as you said, a mid-level pick or a vet signing is needed. 

 

I just want to close by saying, I do think it is a stretch to say the organization should be happy with what Monroe is bringing us over the past couple years. 

[rmcjacket23]

I agree on that ... as a matter of fact, I stated as much in my first response to a previous post (where someone was saying we should sign KO, make him our LT and cut ties with Monroe). As I said in that post, we are all in on Monroe and cannot cut ties with him ... not next year and not likely even the year after, lest we take on a lot of dead money. 

 

I know there are a couple of big OT prospects in the draft that we could get high, but I also agree we are not likely to go that route. I think, as you said, a mid-level pick or a vet signing is needed. 

 

I just want to close by saying, I do think it is a stretch to say the organization should be happy with what Monroe is bringing us over the past couple years. 

He's here for 2016. Beyond that will depend on how good he plays next season. Dead money is somewhat relevant, but the cap savings is the relevant factor, as it is the factor that determines whether they move on or not.

 

Technically, there is cap savings from releasing him after this season ($2.1M), but you aren't likely to find a better LT for $2.1M, so that's not likely.

 

2017, however, you're looking at $4.55M in cap savings, and that's a figure where you could get a replacement player if he struggles or is hurt longer.

 

To me, 2016 looks like a make or break season for him.

[CodeSpyder]

I'm very disappointed in James Hurst for rolling up on Joe Flacco. He needed to stay on his feet and hold is block. He didn't and that's on him. But what do you expect when you put an undrafted free agent in at left tackle? He should be cut as he as made numerous mistakes. Very disappointed. You have a QB who can be one of the best, but every QB needs protection.

[Minionhunter]

I'm very disappointed in James Hurst for rolling up on Joe Flacco. He needed to stay on his feet and hold is block. He didn't and that's on him. But what do you expect when you put an undrafted free agent in at left tackle? He should be cut as he as made numerous mistakes. Very disappointed. You have a QB who can be one of the best, but every QB needs protection.

Yes, his man was playing well after the whistle, like a Jeff Fisher coached player.

[Crusader]

I hope Joe does not see Perriman's doctors or we will never see Joe again!

[Crusader]

Now we know how New England felt with Bernard Pollard the Patriot "Killer" Good news New England gets to play the Rams next year.

[purpledown]

Ravens have to find a starting quarterback during the offseason.

[ravenbran]

I'm very disappointed in James Hurst for rolling up on Joe Flacco. He needed to stay on his feet and hold is block. He didn't and that's on him. But what do you expect when you put an undrafted free agent in at left tackle? He should be cut as he as made numerous mistakes. Very disappointed. You have a QB who can be one of the best, but every QB needs protection.

[Crusader]

I will say this. If Joe was not hear Ravens would have gone thru a lot more QB's the last 8 years because of injuries and the way Ravens go thru Offensive Coordinators

[ravenbran]

You guys need to take a look at the playback of Joe's injury before you make an opinion of Hurst and his role in the incident. Take a look at why he fell backwards into Joe's legs. Seems like a St.Louis defensive lineman was behind his feet.Dont be so quick to judge....

[highlandtownhon]

Don't know who rolled on who, but that's football. I can never figure how they get off the field in one piece anyway.

Joe is a stand up, honorable family man.

Going to miss him, get well soon Joe, have a safe and complete recovery.

Forsett too.

[RavenManiac#7]

I would have to disagree with you bud, because throughout this season, Flacco has had little, to up to yesterday, no weapons. We have a good interior line, but we do need better Tackles, because guys like Monroe cannot stay healthy.

It sounds, to me, like we're not disagreeing at all. I said he's needed weapons his whole career, and you're saying the same thing, at least throughout this season, as you put it. And I said he needs better protection, which sounds like what  you're saying, as well, when you say we need better tackles. So, just what are you disagreeing with me about, bud?