Flacco out for season

[Militant X 1]

Is it any wonder people go out of their way to defend him when people like that post crap about him?

I'd like tru etc that claim to be totally neutral to call out virginia, but we know the won't because while they claim to be neutral, they actually aren't.

 

You're right on all accounts.  And to reinforce. you never see the ones that claim to be "unbiased, no purple shades" calling out the ridiculous. Obviously they are just haters as well. 

 

My thoughts exactly!  I've alluded to that for some time; 99% of "realists" and "neutral" are really just pessimistic  and biased

 

So now, you guys are not content with just arguing with "the one" (virginia) who is actually making claims against Flacco but you feel a need to turn your attention and focus on those who say they are "realist" and "neutral" just because they choose to remain silent in this conversation?  Wow!  Smh!

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Who's the true No. 1?  Most teams wouldn't and didn't.  They'll take a piece here and there.  What have Boldin and Torrey done for the 9ers?

 

Joe's never had a great and true #1.....

 

He's had no "Larry Fitzgerald"...  he's had no "A.J. Green"...  He's had no "Megatron"...  He's had no "Antonio Brown"...  He's had no "Dez Bryant"...  He's had no "Odell Beckham".

 

And we will hold judgement until Perriman hits the field next season..... 

Tell them Mom Gene.

[The Mom Gene]

Just because the TEAM a QB plays on hasn't won a SB doesn't mean what they thought they had wasn't true. Romo is a good QB, Marino was a GREAT QB and Dilfer was at best a serviceable QB. 2 didn't win a SB.

 

Just sayin... Your point is EXACTLY my point.   We got folks calling out Flacco for the wrong reasons....  Just like other teams got folks calling out guys for the wrong reasons...  Romo is a VERY VERY good QB... but he's just not won the big one.  That's my point.  We should be proud we have our QB.

[BmoreBird22]

Yeah. Boldin was a top 20 WR. Torrey was top 40 at the time. Jacoby was overrated as a WR but made big plays. Pitta was a top 10 TE. Rice was a top 5 back. That's what I'd call well rounded.

I'm not agreeing with any of those ranking for those players. I think you're overrating them, which is really saying something about what Joe did in that playoff run...

[Sherly_Tebow]

The fact that Flacco has been debated to be elite proves that he's above average already.

He's made some costly mistakes, but he's also put the team on his back and made some insane throws to lead us to victory. I'm proud to have Joe through his highs and low. I can't wait for him to come back next year.

[callahan09]

I'm talking about the guys that defend him as to say we don't need another QB in the mix. 

 

He's never had a good receiving core?  Boldin & Torrey & Pitta & Rice? (Healthy with tread on the tires)  Most teams would die to have that lineup. 

Yeah and what happened the last time he had that lineup?  Oh yeah, 11 TDs, 0 INTs, Super Bowl MVP.  How does that help your argument about Joe?

[beanfigger]

So now, you guys are not content with just arguing with "the one" (virginia) who is actually making claims against Flacco but you feel a need to turn your attention and focus on those who say they are "realist" and "neutral" just because they choose to remain silent in this conversation? Wow! Smh!

You just took their bait by jumping in now and not when Virginia was going off.

[1/28/01]

You just took their bait by jumping in now and not when Virginia was going off.

Yowza, ha.

[beanfigger]

Just because the TEAM a QB plays on hasn't won a SB doesn't mean what they thought they had wasn't true. Romo is a good QB, Marino was a GREAT QB and Dilfer was at best a serviceable QB. 2 didn't win a SB.

Maybe they'd have a better team if he didn't have the highest cap hit per year in the whole league. I don't know.

I actually think they've found a nice team all around, just not the most durable or dependable, but if you want to find someone you can argue is overpaid, why not start at the top?

[callahan09]

Its funny but so does Joe.

 

Coming in to this week and he didn't even play last week.  

 

An int a week is not that big of a deal if on the other side you are countering with scores of your own.

 

It's just he doesn't score the football enough to average a pick a game.  He only has 14 tds to 12 picks. With two fumbles. so he is literally a 50/50 guy. 

Why do you hold the fumbles against him but not count his 3 rushing TDs?

 

Anyway, Joe has 112 INTs in 137 games (including post-season).  That's 0.82 per game.  Cousins has 25 INTs in his 20 starts, that's 1.25 per game.  Plus he has an additional 4 INTs in just 79 attempts across 5 games he played in but didn't start.  He averages 36 attempts per start, so that's basically 2 games worth of passing in additional to his 20 starts.  We could call that 29 INTs in 22 games, then, which is 1.32 INTs per game.  That's a rate of about 60% more INTs per game than Joe.

 

Joe has also had 65 starts with 0 INTs. Cousins has only had a 0 INT start 6 times out of 20, that's 70% of his starts that he has thrown at least 1 INT, vs just under 53% for Joe.  Joe pretty darn near has an interception-free game in about half his games throughout his career.  So to characterize him as an interception per game guy is just wrong.

 

You seem to be relying entirely too much on 2015 numbers and ignoring the rest of the career (for both players, in fact, but especially in regards to Joe).  Joe's 80% of games with at least 1 INT this year is out of the norm for his 8-year-long career, and remember that the Oakland and Arizona games both had just 1 INT on the last play of the game as he tried to lead a desperation comeback, those aren't that significant to me.  All told, too many of Joe's INTs this year were the result of his players not attacking the ball, the ball bouncing off their fingers and to an interception, or on the last throw of the game trying to lead a comeback (often the 2nd would-be comeback of the game because the defense gave the lead back up after the first comeback drive, which happened in 5 games this year!).

 

2015 is not indicative of Joe's ability, he was working with a truly messed up receiving corps this year, and Schaub did quite a bit worse than Joe has done this year, and he did it against a really REALLY bad defense that Joe had 3 TDs and 0 turnovers against earlier this year (when they had a healthier defense at that).

[flynismo]

You're right on all accounts.  And to reinforce. you never see the ones that claim to be "unbiased, no purple shades" calling out the ridiculous. Obviously they are just haters as well. 

arnie is in the 1% who actually can play both sides of the fence...

 

The only problem i have with these kinds of post are 

 

You make claims that the things we post about him are crap right?-  I posted facts!

 

Your making excuses about the weapons he has available. - All of these guys play in the NFL.  I can make a case that there are other starting QB's in this league that have worst receivers then ours (CAROLINA). 

 

You are making statements about game winning drives.  I can think of 1 game off the top of my head  this season he gave away. (DENVER) and the San Francisco (depend on how you look at it).

 

Perfect ball placement-  This i might be able to consider  giving the fact that Marlon Brown is still on this team and was ever named a starter in any package. (SMH)

 

The part of your post i highlighted is why he is no longer absolved from any wrongdoing.  He is still making Boneheaded decisions with the football in his eighth season.

 

Flacco has had a hand full of games that he has carried this team.  He is not carrying the team in no way, shape or form for the most part.  This being the main reason he is not worth his contract.  Let's draft a rookie QB and teach him how to manage a game.  Give him a strong line.  A beast running back.  Work off the playaction.  Get in the playoffs.  And see where that takes us. 

 

Again, contradicting yourself. You talk about how there are a couple other teams who have it as bad as us, then go on to concede that Flacco needs perfect placement because he has to throw to guys like Marlon.

 

Flacco wasn't carrying this team? Really? You 100% sure about that? Because with him, this team was in the top 10 scoring offenses in the league, throwing the ball to SSS and a bunch of nobodies and rookies, with no run game to boot. If the defense (and refs in Jax) do their jobs, this team is at 9 wins or better, because of our offense. Once again, not too shabby for a game manager, right?

[flynismo]

Flacco is at least a better QB than I am.

We all should be able to agree on that right?

Sadly, I highly doubt that is a consensus opinion around here.

[flynismo]

You just took their bait by jumping in now and not when Virginia was going off.

Pretty much...

[flynismo]

Yeah and what happened the last time he had that lineup?  Oh yeah, 11 TDs, 0 INTs, Super Bowl MVP.  How does that help your argument about Joe?

I already brought that point up -- unsurprisingly, it was ignored, and off to another rant. lol

[flynismo]

Just because the TEAM a QB plays on hasn't won a SB doesn't mean what they thought they had wasn't true. Romo is a good QB, Marino was a GREAT QB and Dilfer was at best a serviceable QB. 2 didn't win a SB.

Yep. It's why a lot of people hate the "wins being a QB stat" thing. This is football, not baseball or basketball, where players can have great individual performances regardless of how crappy the team around them is. Manning, Brady, Rodgers...those guys are not elite unless the guys around them are playing at a very high level, and everyone is on the same page with each other. It is only when that happens that we can see the greatness of a 2004 Manning or 2007 Brady appear.

Which is why I'm so devout in my faith of Flacco. He has done something Manning has only done once (SB win), and did it with so much less.

[redrum52]

Wonder if there's a Rogers thread on the Pack forum.

Probably is and probably goes the same way these threads do.

[ravensdfan]

In a week where Schaub threw 2 INTs. One a Pick Six and one sealing victory for the opposing team, but for a miracle on ST, and Flacco did not even play - THIS is the HOT topic in Ravens' Talk.

 

 

 

That is the insanity of the Flacco bashing around here because without it, the other side wouldn't even be here posting in this thread.

 

Meanwhile, the Schaub thread lies dormant after everyone wanted to say how well he played. smh

Edited December 5, 2015 by ravensdfan

[Militant X 1]

You just took their bait by jumping in now and not when Virginia was going off.

Pretty much...

 

Taking bait?  Pretty much?  Man please!  Stop reaching!  Smh!

 

The bottom line to me is that cats are going to feel the way that they feel about a player (in this case Flacco) regardless of when anyone in here tries to persuade, sway or convince them otherwise.  That's why it's called an opinion!  We all have them and I'm more partial to mine anyways over others while I respect theirs at the same time. 

Edited December 5, 2015 by Militant X 1

[redrum52]

In a week where Schaub threw 2 INTs. One a Pick Six and one sealing victory for the opposing team, but for a miracle on ST, and Flacco did not even play - THIS is the HOT topic in Ravens' Talk.

That is the insanity of the Flacco bashing around here because without it, the other side wouldn't even be here posting in this thread.

Meanwhile, the Schaub thread lies dormant after everyone wanted to say how well he played. smh

Not saying you, but this is a lie.

Game threads the Flacco fans can't wait til another qb messes up to use it as a comparison when no one's even mentioned Flacco.

[ravensdfan]

Not saying you, but this is a lie.

Game threads the Flacco fans can't wait til another qb messes up to use it as a comparison when no one's even mentioned Flacco.

I can't argue game threads because I've been avoiding them lately. Merely meant this particular thread which is titled :Flacco out for season and one would think that would be more about, oh I don't know, hope his surgery went well/goes well, hope he is 100% to return, usual time frames on that type of injury - things like that.

 

Yes it started out as such a thread but then became the usual Flacco bashing session, which then brings out the usual Flacco defenders, and so back and forth we go lol

[redrum52]

I can't argue game threads because I've been avoiding them lately. Merely meant this particular thread which is titled :Flacco out for season and one would think that would be more about, oh I don't know, hope his surgery went well/goes well, hope he is 100% to return, usual time frames on that type of injury - things like that.

 

Yes it started out as such a thread but then became the usual Flacco bashing session, which then brings out the usual Flacco defenders, and so back and forth we go lol

Yup. Been waiting to hear about his surgery, but haven't seen anything yet.  Wish him a speedy a recovery.

 

And the Flacco threads are like Tom and Jerry.

[beanfigger]

Yup. Been waiting to hear about his surgery, but haven't seen anything yet. Wish him a speedy a recovery.

And the Flacco threads are like Tom and Jerry.

Surgery should be next week, I believe, or soon after. Had to wait for swelling to go down.

[ravensdfan]

Yup. Been waiting to hear about his surgery, but haven't seen anything yet.  Wish him a speedy a recovery.

 

And the Flacco threads are like Tom and Jerry.

Yeah last I saw was here a few days ago about them still waiting for the swelling to do down.

[Militant X 1]

Surgery should be next week, I believe, or soon after. Had to wait for swelling to go down.

 

I hope it goes well for him and that he makes a speedy recovery.  He's been the one constant player that we could count on from week to week to be on the field and in the game.  Strange moving forward without him!

[beanfigger]

I hope it goes well for him and that he makes a speedy recovery. He's been the one constant player that we could count on from week to week to be on the field and in the game. Strange moving forward without him!

Weirdly, it still felt like the same team with him even after the myriad of injuries before him. It doesn't feel like the same team without the starting QB, for sure. I still stand behind them, but it feels different.

[52520Andrew]

Flacco done for the year and we're now on a 35-page topic once again discussing whether he's good or not.

There are plenty here on both sides. Imo there are many pretenders on both sides. Plenty of people attempt to look neutral but aren't. I'm not one to generally call someone out but these attempts are very transparent imo.

Flacco could certainly be better but I don't see him as an average QB. I see an above average, top 10 QB and I'm good with that. I think it's hard to argue that he's top 10. While you could certainly argue he's top 5, I think that's a more difficult argument.

There's my occasional post on the subject. Time to stick my head in the dirt again.

I think most truly neutral people on here avoid these threads. I'll call out points I don't agree with if I see them but for the most part, I keep my head in the dirt as well lol

[Militant X 1]

Weirdly, it still felt like the same team with him even after the myriad of injuries before him. It doesn't feel like the same team without the starting QB, for sure. I still stand behind them, but it feels different.

 

Well, I do have a weird feeling now that Flacco has gone down.  I knew it would happen one season just not this one that has been riddled with season ending injuries to multiple key players.  However, I still believe that since the Ravens won in stunning fashion on the road over the Browns; the Dolphins are in trouble today!

[The Mom Gene]

Weirdly, it still felt like the same team with him even after the myriad of injuries before him. It doesn't feel like the same team without the starting QB, for sure. I still stand behind them, but it feels different.

It was the Browns...  and before that it was the Rams... and Jacksonville...

 

It wasn't the Cardinals, Steelers, and Cincy.

[beanfigger]

It was the Browns... and before that it was the Rams... and Jacksonville...

It wasn't the Cardinals, Steelers, and Cincy.

I don't understand this post and how it pertains to mine. Please explain. Are you suggesting it felt weird because of our opponents and not because of the injuries?

[Tru11]

Is it any wonder people go out of their way to defend him when people like that post crap about him?

I'd like tru etc that claim to be totally neutral to call out virginia, but we know the won't because while they claim to be neutral, they actually aren't.

Flacco is in a situation with the weapons around him he has to be perfect on every play. If he holds on to it slightly to long he gets hit with our makeshift left side. If he doesn't hold onto it long enough out receivers can't get open.

If he isn't perfect in ball placement without a boldin or smith to get the ball they don't get caught.

When he drives us down the field to take the game winning lead late in the fourth the defense squanders it and he and the rest of the offense have to try to do it again.

Too many variables, to many issues on this team that means he has to play virtually perfect for us to win, and he just isn't perfect.

Hes good for a couple of awful throws game. Some will be wide open misses, others bad picks, some just awful decisions. He has a couple a game, no denying it. Maybe he's trying to hard, maybe the defense confused him, maybe it was just a poor throw.

But every qb has those. What flacco give us is the ability to hit every level of the defense, make ever throw. He can scramble a bit to buy more time, he can carry us when needs be, evidenced by his superbowl run, he can be great with some help around him.

He won't, like every qb, carry a team with absolutely no weapons.

 

 

You're right on all accounts.  And to reinforce. you never see the ones that claim to be "unbiased, no purple shades" calling out the ridiculous. Obviously they are just haters as well. 

 

 

My thoughts exactly!  I've alluded to that for some time; 99% of "realists" and "neutral" are really just pessimistic  and biased

 

 

hey flacco lovers.

 

scroll back a few pages and you will see i actually quoted  virginia and disagreed with the persons point of view.

 

nice try though 

Edited December 6, 2015 by Tru11