Flacco out for season

[flynismo]

1. Flaccos contract doesn't really become a cap problem until this offseason. That's a Rice and Ngata issue really.

2. No you don't need a big armed(though your point there is moot cause Ben has a cannon for an arm as well) QB. You need a good one.

Over the past 15 years there have been three exceptions to the rule of needing a franchise QB to win a SB(Flacco isn't one of them).

1. Dilfer

2. Brad Johnson

3. Rookie Roethlisberger

All three won the big dance in spite of their QBs. A rarity. So yes. You can. But you would need to put together a legendary defense and have an elite running game to make up for it.

I'll give you a hint... WE WON OUR SB BECAUSE OF JOE. Sorry. Our defense that year was one of the worst I've ever seen win a SB. And Flacco was in a position to do it again last year had we had a healthy secondary.

And clearly you don't have an understanding of basic economics. Supply and demand.

You see. If we were to foolishly cut Flacco... He would last a collective 10 seconds on the open market with the Cleveland Browns (I believe they're first in waiver order) getting an actual competent QB and suddenly having a chance to become competitive. To an equal contract to what he got, possibly more. Why? Because you usually need a franchise QB to win a SB. Teams like Clevleland, hell CINCI would kill to have a guy like Flacco. Flacco behind the Benglas with all those weapons and that defense would probably lead them to a few SB victories.

Flacco has had a down year. But when literally your whole line has been hurt at some point, your top 3 WRs got hurt. No QB can suceed. So tell me? What makes you think Alex Smith is going to do any better?

The debate is over. We are keeping him. There is nothing you can do about it.

Thank god the board members(myself included) do not make the personel decisions.

Very foolish. There is no way in hell CLE waits even ten seconds before they throw $150M at Flacco 

[Virginia 55]

So, you don't expect a guy that averages, over 16 games, 3,680 yards and 32 TD passes while having few turnovers to cost just as much? Also I bet most teams would love that guy lmao.

he has never 

 

So, you don't expect a guy that averages, over 16 games, 3,680 yards and 32 TD passes while having few turnovers to cost just as much? Also I bet most teams would love that guy lmao.

Joe doesnt average 32 tds a season. Not including the playoffs he averages 22 tds a season  this number includes the rushing touchdowns.  While he also averages 6 fumbles a year with 12.75 int's a year.  so he does just as much damage as he does good.

 

22tds and 19 turnovers a season??????? This is Franchise material?  We have set the bar low here in Baltimore. 

 

So, No I don't think that other teams are lining up to get a guy like that.  Why do you guys defend him so much?  Just look at the numbers and tell me that is a guy that you can rely on year in and year out.

 

Note; my numbers do not include playoffs 

Edited December 4, 2015 by Virginia 55

[Virginia 55]

1. Flaccos contract doesn't really become a cap problem until this offseason. That's a Rice and Ngata issue really.

2. No you don't need a big armed(though your point there is moot cause Ben has a cannon for an arm as well) QB. You need a good one.

Over the past 15 years there have been three exceptions to the rule of needing a franchise QB to win a SB(Flacco isn't one of them).

1. Dilfer

2. Brad Johnson

3. Rookie Roethlisberger

All three won the big dance in spite of their QBs. A rarity. So yes. You can. But you would need to put together a legendary defense and have an elite running game to make up for it.

I'll give you a hint... WE WON OUR SB BECAUSE OF JOE. Sorry. Our defense that year was one of the worst I've ever seen win a SB. And Flacco was in a position to do it again last year had we had a healthy secondary.

And clearly you don't have an understanding of basic economics. Supply and demand.

You see. If we were to foolishly cut Flacco... He would last a collective 10 seconds on the open market with the Cleveland Browns (I believe they're first in waiver order) getting an actual competent QB and suddenly having a chance to become competitive. To an equal contract to what he got, possibly more. Why? Because you usually need a franchise QB to win a SB. Teams like Clevleland, hell CINCI would kill to have a guy like Flacco. Flacco behind the Benglas with all those weapons and that defense would probably lead them to a few SB victories.

Flacco has had a down year. But when literally your whole line has been hurt at some point, your top 3 WRs got hurt. No QB can suceed. So tell me? What makes you think Alex Smith is going to do any better?

The debate is over. We are keeping him. There is nothing you can do about it.

Thank god the board members(myself included) do not make the personel decisions.

Flacco is a QB he is not a franchise QB.  He is replaceable. Matt is doing okay in his role as we speak.  He's not a franchise guy either. Flacco is essentially a new Matt Schaub.

 

Alex Smith?  He just a game manger he's not better than Flacco. He's in company with him though just because he doesn't make a lot of mistakes.  He just a serviceable QB.  Even i know Flacco is better than serviceable.  

[Virginia 55]

Based on what? Its easy to throw out opinions... its difficult when you actually have to support them.

Okay so let me try! 

 

 Ball placement- on deep throws way to many OVER AND UNDERS. 

 

Pocket Awareness-  We all know his pocket awareness is terrible. 

 

Throwing jump balls in the middle of the football field when he gets rattled. -We have all seen the deer in headlights look on his face plenty of times. 

 

22tds a season with 12.75 ints and 6 fumbles a year.  That is terrible management of a football game. 

 

Is this enough supporting truth? I'm not trying to be rude if its sounds like it. I'm just answering your post. 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Wonder if there's a Rogers thread on the Pack forum.

Good question. Had to check it out. Their forum seems to be alittle 'kinder/gentler' place regarding all their players. It must be a mid-west thing.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

he has never

Joe doesnt average 32 tds a season. Not including the playoffs he averages 22 tds a season this number includes the rushing touchdowns. While he also averages 6 fumbles a year with 12.75 int's a year. so he does just as much damage as he does good.

22tds and 19 turnovers a season??????? This is Franchise material? We have set the bar low here in Baltimore.

So, No I don't think that other teams are lining up to get a guy like that. Why do you guys defend him so much? Just look at the numbers and tell me that is a guy that you can rely on year in and year out.

Note; my numbers do not include playoffs

I wasn't talking about joe at all. You said we should get a game manager that can average 230 yards 2 TD's and have minimal turnovers so I spread that over 16 games and you said he'd be cheap so I said that every team would want that guy and he definitely isn't a game manager. That's a pro bowler. He's 100% gonna make just as much as Joe probably way more. I never commented on joe in my previous post.

[Virginia 55]

So its that easy huh. All you have to do is get an average QB and be exceptional at literally like 15 other positions on the team? That's all huh?

 

And this, ladies and gentleman, is why fans don't run NFL franchises.

 

We have already seen this done multiple times in the past.

Once right here in Baltimore. 

Big Ben's first Bowl 

Mark Rypien 

Russell Wilson(might be an exception) 

Phil Simms 

Troy Aikman

Jim Mcmahon

Brad Johnson

Eli-(might make this list)

 

The all had good teams and marginal QB's.  So does the truth about Flacco seem more realistic? 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Good question. Had to check it out. Their forum seems to be alittle 'kinder/gentler' place regarding all their players. It must be a mid-west thing.

My bad Tank. Read alittle more. It gets just as brutal in there sometimes. Nobody's safe including Rogers.

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/another-lost-season-in-rodgers-prime.64022/

 

Joe would be right at home there. It just comes with the position I suppose.

Edited December 4, 2015 by jkm5bmore

[rmcjacket23]

 

We have already seen this done multiple times in the past.

Once right here in Baltimore. 

Big Ben's first Bowl 

Mark Rypien 

Russell Wilson(might be an exception) 

Phil Simms 

Troy Aikman

Jim Mcmahon

Brad Johnson

Eli-(might make this list)

 

The all had good teams and marginal QB's.  So does the truth about Flacco seem more realistic?

This proves nothing. You literally just listed a bunch of SB winning teams who were great in some areas and average in others. There's nothing exceptional about every other position on this team besides QB.

A lot of the above teams were actually quite pedestrian at many aspects of football. These hurt your point, not help it. Nobodies arguing that you need an elite QB to win a SB. It's just a huge fallacy to think these teams are loaded everywhere else. They werent

[The Mom Gene]

Flacco is a QB he is not a franchise QB.  He is replaceable. Matt is doing okay in his role as we speak.  He's not a franchise guy either. Flacco is essentially a new Matt Schaub.

 

Alex Smith?  He just a game manger he's not better than Flacco. He's in company with him though just because he doesn't make a lot of mistakes.  He just a serviceable QB.  Even i know Flacco is better than serviceable.  

New????  He's been in the league 8 seasons.... and he doesn't "average" 19 INT's a season.  Most of tour posts are opinion... and the stats you're throwing out there are cherry picked at best.    Just sayin... 

[The Oakland Cathedral]

We have already seen this done multiple times in the past.

Once right here in Baltimore.

Big Ben's first Bowl

Mark Rypien

Russell Wilson(might be an exception)

Phil Simms

Troy Aikman

Jim Mcmahon

Brad Johnson

Eli-(might make this list)

The all had good teams and marginal QB's. So does the truth about Flacco seem more realistic?

Troy Aikman was not average. He was surrounded by tons of talent but was very good in his own right and was a top 10 passer in 10ish seasons. He played in a passer unfriendly offense where he usually utilized intermediate and deep passing all the while with a running back that couldn't be stopped due to the line.

[flynismo]

We have already seen this done multiple times in the past.

Once right here in Baltimore.

Interesting. Obviously you're referring to the 2000 team. Which then means that even you realize the 2012 team does not falll under the "mediocre QB / exceptional rest of the team formula".

So that leads me to this question --

 

How did we win the 2012 SB?? Certainly not because of our defense and running game...so...how did that happen?

[Virginia 55]

1. Except you can't, because you are envisioning a game manager who literally is never behind in a game. Explain to me how a game manager is going to bring his team back from a deficit, which is a requirement for 100% of teams in history to do, because no team plays with the lead the entire season (especially in the playoffs). How well do game managers do when their team is trailing by double digits in the 4th quarter?

 

2. Name me a QB in the NFL right now who consistently throws for 230 yards/game and 2 TDs a game, not on their rookie contract, that plays for less than $15M+ a year? Again, I don't think you have any clue what the cost of a mediocre QB in the NFL is.

 

I don't care about the phantom $120M number and not sure why you keep bringing it up. It means nothing.

First off, this was clever.  Let me clarify.

Every QB in the Nfl (that starts) is throwing for more than 230 yards a game that is not named CAM NEWTON (who doesn't have to because he relies on his stellar defense and manages the game well.  The other QB being Ryan Fitzpatrick. (who just lost the starting gig- i think).

 

Player that fits the bill. Kirk Cousins - Not on Rookie contract and is putting up these kind of numbers. also not making 15 mil 

Everyone else would be projects. That is what i'm talking about take a chance on a project guy.  Lord knows we are still seeing growing pains in our eight year starter  

[Inqui]

First off, this was clever. Let me clarify.

Every QB in the Nfl (that starts) is throwing for more than 230 yards a game that is not named CAM NEWTON (who doesn't have to because he relies on his stellar defense and manages the game well. The other QB being Ryan Fitzpatrick. (who just lost the starting gig- i think).

Player that fits the bill. Kirk Cousins - Not on Rookie contract and is putting up these kind of numbers. also not making 15 mil

Everyone else would be projects. That is what i'm talking about take a chance on a project guy. Lord knows we are still seeing growing pains in our eight year starter

He's on the last year of his rookie deal.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/kirk-cousins/

[Virginia 55]

New????  He's been in the league 8 seasons.... and he doesn't "average" 19 INT's a season.  Most of tour posts are opinion... and the stats you're throwing out there are cherry picked at best.    Just sayin... 

Cherry picked? When did i say he averages 19 int's a season?  I believe you are mistaken the 19 ints for the 19 turnovers.

 

12.75ints and 6 fumbles equal 19 turnovers.

 

I don't think they are cherry picked stats, facts are facts. 

[Virginia 55]

Troy Aikman was not average. He was surrounded by tons of talent but was very good in his own right and was a top 10 passer in 10ish seasons. He played in a passer unfriendly offense where he usually utilized intermediate and deep passing all the while with a running back that couldn't be stopped due to the line.

Troy aikman was slightly above mediocre. He just played on a really good team.

 

Reminds me of Joe. 

[The Mom Gene]

he has never 

 

Joe doesnt average 32 tds a season. Not including the playoffs he averages 22 tds a season  this number includes the rushing touchdowns.  While he also averages 6 fumbles a year with 12.75 int's a year.  so he does just as much damage as he does good.

 

22tds and 19 turnovers a season??????? This is Franchise material?  We have set the bar low here in Baltimore. 

 

So, No I don't think that other teams are lining up to get a guy like that.  Why do you guys defend him so much?  Just look at the numbers and tell me that is a guy that you can rely on year in and year out.

 

Note; my numbers do not include playoffs 

Right there...  You say "you guys" as in you're not a fan... So if not, then who are you a fan of? 

 

You have to take into account the material he's had to work with.  Yes, I will defend him.  I haven't, and neither has anyone else been able to see what his potential is.....  never really had a good O-Line,(pieces, yes),  5 OC's in his time here, Never had a true #1 receiver, let alone a really good receiving corps.  He has had sporadic weapons.   Sorry, I don't believe we have EVER seen what Joe's real potential is.

[Virginia 55]

Interesting. Obviously you're referring to the 2000 team. Which then means that even you realize the 2012 team does not falll under the "mediocre QB / exceptional rest of the team formula".

So that leads me to this question --

 

How did we win the 2012 SB?? Certainly not because of our defense and running game...so...how did that happen?

Special teams and a QB that had a great run. One great run doesn't make you a great QB. Ask dilfer with his 153 yards and 1 score. He was asked not to lose the game. Much like we asked Flacco for most of his career here. 

[Virginia 55]

He's on the last year of his rookie deal.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/kirk-cousins/

Good catch, i thought he got a new deal this year.  

 

Ill eat that,

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Cherry picked? When did i say he averages 19 int's a season? I believe you are mistaken the 19 ints for the 19 turnovers.

12.75ints and 6 fumbles equal 19 turnovers.

I don't think they are cherry picked stats, facts are facts.

techincally it equals 18.75.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Troy aikman was slightly above mediocre. He just played on a really good team.

Reminds me of Joe.

No he wasn't it's a very common misconception that he was.

[Tank 92]

My bad Tank. Read alittle more. It gets just as brutal in there sometimes. Nobody's safe including Rogers.

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/another-lost-season-in-rodgers-prime.64022/

 

Joe would be right at home there. It just comes with the position I suppose.

 

Had to check it out and found this,  "Fanoaches" (fan coaches)".    lol

[Virginia 55]

Right there...  You say "you guys" as in you're not a fan... So if not, then who are you a fan of? 

 

You have to take into account the material he's had to work with.  Yes, I will defend him.  I haven't, and neither has anyone else been able to see what his potential is.....  never really had a good O-Line,(pieces, yes),  5 OC's in his time here, Never had a true #1 receiver, let alone a really good receiving corps.  He has had sporadic weapons.   Sorry, I don't believe we have EVER seen what Joe's real potential is.

I'm talking about the guys that defend him as to say we don't need another QB in the mix. 

 

He's never had a good receiving core?  Boldin & Torrey & Pitta & Rice? (Healthy with tread on the tires)  Most teams would die to have that lineup. 

[Virginia 55]

techincally it equals 18.75.

So do you know someone that has thrown 3/4 of a pick or fumbled 3/4 of a ball away? SMH,,,,,,,lol

[Virginia 55]

No he wasn't it's a very common misconception that he was.

I watched his career he definitely was slightly above average.  Just like Joe, just to keep it on topic 

[ravensdfan]

I'm talking about the guys that defend him as to say we don't need another QB in the mix. 

 

He's never had a good receiving core?  Boldin & Torrey & Pitta & Rice? (Healthy with tread on the tires)  Most teams would die to have that lineup. 

First: That is an above average receiving corps, not the masterpiece you make it out to be. Teams with AJ Green, Julio, etc would NOT kill to have that line-up.

 

Second: So basically the year we won the SB and he went on that amazing run? That year? That's his potential with just an above average receiving corps? Then by all means, let's surround him with that.

Edited December 4, 2015 by ravensdfan

[beanfigger]

Funny that people complain about how much money our QB makes and then lists a bunch of first-round QBs that he claims won only because of their supporting casts. I'm sure we will save money by drafting a QB in the first round again, and then after he wins I suppose we're supposed to throw him away, too, just like with Joe. That's really the only way to do it, according to this theory. You must hit it out of the park every four-five seasons with a first round QB, groom them into champions, and then toss them away before you have to pay them. It's that easy. Obviously, stud QBs are available in every draft, so it's easy. Forget building up the rest of your team like he wants, too, because you're always just looking for your next QB.

Edited December 5, 2015 by beanfigger

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

First: That is an above average receiving corps, not the masterpiece you make it out to be. Teams with AJ Green, Julio, etc would NOT kill to have that line-up.

Second: So basically the year we won the SB and he went on that amazing run? That year? That's his potential with just an above average receiving corps? Then by all means, let's surround him with that.

Yeah. Boldin was a top 20 WR. Torrey was top 40 at the time. Jacoby was overrated as a WR but made big plays. Pitta was a top 10 TE. Rice was a top 5 back. That's what I'd call well rounded.

A loaded offense is Pittsburgh. If Heath Miller is your worst option you're doing something right.

To say Aiken(who's in the Hall of Fame..) wasn't a franchise QB is totally BEYOND asinine. Sorry. Only "average/serviceable" QBs don't win 3 in any era. Just look at Dalton. He's serviceable/average, just a QB. He's not a bad QB. But he's probably not good enough to win it all.

[ravensdfan]

Yeah. Boldin was a top 20 WR. Torrey was top 40 at the time. Jacoby was overrated as a WR but made big plays. Pitta was a top 10 TE. Rice was a top 5 back. That's what I'd call well rounded.

A loaded offense is Pittsburgh. If Heath Miller is your worst option you're doing something right.

To say Aiken(who's in the Hall of Fame..) wasn't a franchise QB is totally BEYOND asinine. Sorry. Only "average/serviceable" QBs don't win 3 in any era. Just look at Dalton. He's serviceable/average, just a QB. He's not a bad QB. But he's probably not good enough to win it all.

I don't think we necessarily need an AJ Green. I think well rounded will do - and if that is his potential with well rounded, I'm good with that. Let's do it.

 

Pitt hits on WRs. It's annoying lol

 

I will take some measure of pleasure if the Bengals lose their first post season game ...again lol

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Flacco is a QB he is not a franchise QB. He is replaceable. Matt is doing okay in his role as we speak. He's not a franchise guy either. Flacco is essentially a new Matt Schaub.

Alex Smith? He just a game manger he's not better than Flacco. He's in company with him though just because he doesn't make a lot of mistakes. He just a serviceable QB. Even i know Flacco is better than serviceable.

"He's replaceable"....

Yeah no. I would take maybe Goff long term over Flacco. But that's it.

It's really hard to find a franchise QB. So yeahs not going anywhere. Schaub looked decent against an awful defense with a simplistic gameplan.

And here you're being a massive hypocrite. Saying Smith is a game manager. Which is true. But saying that Flacco is better than serviceable but not a franchise QB is utter crap.

Tannehil is serviceable

Dalton

Cutler

Fitzpatrick.

None will ever win a ring because of him.

We won that ring cause of Flacco. Sorry. We did. If he's not there literally none of it is possible. He's not elite. But he's easily above average.

I don't know why I'm arguing this... Ozzie isn't ridding of him