Time to start over

[xxhighriser]

Utter made-up nonsense.

 

Since Flacco entered the league he has 67 games (including post-season) with a QB Rating of 90 or better.  There are only 5 QB's with more than that in the same time span: Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers, and Peyton Manning.  4 out of 5 are unquestionably going to the Hall of Fame, and Rivers has been in that conversation as well.  So only played at a high level in a handful of games?  Not true at all.

 

He doesn't make other players better, they make HIM better?  Are you for real?  Flacco has been working with undersized receivers over the age of 30 and on the decline as his #1 for his entire career, except in 2013 with Torrey Smith, who is clearly not an NFL #1 quality receiver, and this year with Kamar Aiken, who isn't even in the same ballpark as Torrey Smith.  

 

You want to be overly critical of Flacco because of THIS SEASON?  When he had a few games with a healthy Steve Smith Sr (who happened to have a serious case of not being able to catch in the end zone) and a few more games with an injured Steve Smith Sr, and more than half the season including the rest of it will be without him at all.  He's got 5 undrafted players and a guy that has only been here a few weeks and wasn't with this offense during training camp and pre-season, who couldn't get snaps in St Louis (possibly the 2nd worse receiving corps in the NFL this year, and we're so bad that we're picking up THERE scraps!).  He's got 2 rookie tight ends and a 2nd year tight end who was never supposed to be a receiving threat.

 

Crockett Gillmore is having a great year.  This is not a player that was supposed to make Flacco look good, he was a blocking tight end coming out of the draft.  Suddenly he's a good receiving threat, and you give him all the credit AND discredit Flacco by saying he's being made to look good by the receiver?  If this were Tom Brady, you'd be saying "Wow, look at Brady making Gillmore a great tight end receiving threat!"  But since it's Joe, you give Gillmore credit for making Flacco look good, rather than the other way around?  

 

Kamar Aiken couldn't catch a single pass when he was in Tom Brady's system.  Why didn't Tom Brady make him "better"?  Oh, but I guess it's Aiken who is making Flacco look good, not the other way around?  Well, this is besides the fact that Aiken DOESN'T look good, and is making Flacco look WORSE than he is, because Aiken  ISN'T good!  That's why Aiken couldn't do squat on the Patriots, with Tom Brady, a system and player who are adept at making the most out of anyone, but Aiken just isn't good enough for them, but here Joe is with Aiken as his freaking #1 receiver.

 

Flacco's stats even look worse than they should because his receiver let him down a lot. He leads the league in two dubious categories: TD passes dropped by the recevier in the end zone, and pass completions where the receiver was tackled within 1 yard of the end zone.  Joe could easily have 20 passing TDs on his stat sheet right now if his receivers were actually even NFL average in the red zone and could get that extra yard for a TD, or hell just catch the ball when it comes your way in the end zone.

 

A lot has gone wrong for Flacco this year and he's working with the worst receiving corps in the NFL, but you want to put all the blame on him and give him none of the credit and say that his receivers make HIM look good.  That's such a joke.

While I agree with most of this, Flacco isn't as good a qb as most Ravens fans make him out to be.  With a team lacking leaders since Ed and Ray retired there's no reason why he shouldn't be the voice of this team.  He could use more time in the film room, and if he is putting in that work it isn't evident in a lot of his reads and choices of audibles. In fact I think his accuracy and arm strength make a good number of his throws that aren't open look like good throws. Maybe that's due to the fact he doesn't organize off season workouts with just him and his receivers, which I also think is unacceptable for an 8th year quarterback (yes injuries have played a huge part).  With that said I do believe Flacco is a good qb that can make that step to be a great one.  However he is holding himself back.  

[PolishRifle]

Dude, it's one freaking season. Stop panicking. The Ravens were the only team, that actually came close to winning against the Pats in the playoffs LAST YEAR!

[Cillmatic]

I just hope this doesn't become the narrative. I want to make the playoffs next year. This teams not THAT far away from a playoff berth in this lackluster conference.

[Cillmatic]

I just hope this doesn't become the narrative. I want to make the playoffs next year. This teams not THAT far away from a playoff berth in this lackluster conference.

[PolishRifle]

I just hope this doesn't become the narrative. I want to make the playoffs next year. This teams not THAT far away from a playoff berth in this lackluster conference.

 

I feel like we're one playmaker away from getting back to the playoffs.

[redrum52]

Dude, it's one freaking season. Stop panicking. The Ravens were the only team, that actually came close to winning against the Pats in the playoffs LAST YEAR!

Seahawks?

[PolishRifle]

Seahawks?

 

Fair enough. 2nd closest, though. Right?

[Tru11]

some of you need very little to be in pannick mode lol

[redrum52]

some of you need very little to be in pannick mode lol

As a whole I think the fan base needed this.

As a team that sure as hell did. With everyone healthy we're just a few players away from being a good to great. I'd expect SSS to come back too. I know no one wants to hear this but could see Ozzie trading down if we get a top 5 pick.

Edited November 17, 2015 by redrum52

[3-4ravdef509]

[Cville-Raven]

Dude, it's one freaking season. Stop panicking. The Ravens were the only team, that actually came close to winning against the Pats in the playoffs LAST YEAR!

Exactly, some people on here just can't take a loss and automatically equate one bad season to multiple years of bad seasons. 

[Tru11]

As a whole I think the fan base needed this.

As a team that sure as hell did. With everyone healthy we're just a few players away from being a good to great. I'd expect SSS to come back too. I know no one wants to hear this but could see Ozzie trading down if we get a top 5 pick.

 

depends on who is there and what the offer will be.

 

given the fact we got alot of holes to fill it might be the best option.

 

especially if we gonna cut guys like webb and such.

[TDubbs]

I can't say it enough, we crush this draft with the high picks we're going to get; We will be a SB contender next season. Its easy to overreact and we have so many holes to fill, but this offseason will be big in plugging up those holes. 

[Willbacker]

Just a bump in the road.

[curtis0360]

8-8 is a bump in the road, 2-7 is something else entirely. We shouldnt tolerate this, yeah we got a good foundation, im not saying get rid of that, i already stated the players that should stay. Those players are our bright spots, lets face it if we dont wipe the hard drive. Then its time to do a scan clean alot of people are leaving after this year. It shouldnt be anything less than that, forgot to mention j tuck, he can stay. Outside of the foundation and the players named prepare for a purge. 

[rmcjacket23]

8-8 is a bump in the road, 2-7 is something else entirely. We shouldnt tolerate this, yeah we got a good foundation, im not saying get rid of that, i already stated the players that should stay. Those players are our bright spots, lets face it if we dont wipe the hard drive. Then its time to do a scan clean alot of people are leaving after this year. It shouldnt be anything less than that, forgot to mention j tuck, he can stay. Outside of the foundation and the players named prepare for a purge. 

I mean the purge is great and all, as long as fans understand that a purge is almost exclusively immediately followed by 2-3 years of below average production.

 

So if fans are for the purge, so be it. I just better not hear about them complaining in 2016 after the purge happens when the team is 4-12 or 5-11 again. That should be the expectation.

[RLewis52]

I can't say it enough, we crush this draft with the high picks we're going to get; We will be a SB contender next season. Its easy to overreact and we have so many holes to fill, but this offseason will be big in plugging up those holes. 

  Unless Ozzie completely changes his draft strategy I dont see us getting any needs from the draft sadly, instead additions to positions we are solid at already, mainly LB, DT. Every year it seems we ignore positions we need like WR,DB,S untill about the 5th,6th,7th round and expect something out of him. I get  rounds often dont matter, quality players can be found anywhere, but scouting late round (bargan) players as opposed to first couple rounds I dont understand.

I guess i can hope though, that we might select a CB or some need in the first couple rounds, havent taken one higher than the 5th round in what will be 4 years (Asa Jackson 2012)

[FlocksGottaFeed]

We're only 2-3 players and a cultural reboot or shift away. No need to blow-up this team right, now.

[atomicfront]

Few players we should keep, the linebackers, brandon williams, carl davis.Webb. As for the offense, the tight ends and marshal yanda that is it. The rest must be reevaluated, im sick of jimmy, as soon as he got paid he has sucked.  

 

What about Suggs???  The Offensive line isn't bad.   And Flacco??  How about Forsett?  

[rmcjacket23]

  Unless Ozzie completely changes his draft strategy I dont see us getting any needs from the draft sadly, instead additions to positions we are solid at already, mainly LB, DT. Every year it seems we ignore positions we need like WR,DB,S untill about the 5th,6th,7th round and expect something out of him. I get  rounds often dont matter, quality players can be found anywhere, but scouting late round (bargan) players as opposed to first couple rounds I dont understand.

I guess i can hope though, that we might select a CB or some need in the first couple rounds, havent taken one higher than the 5th round in what will be 4 years (Asa Jackson 2012)

Just so you are aware, we've had 10 picks in the first two rounds in the last five drafts.

 

Of those 10 picks, they have been:

 

2 WRs, 1 corner, 1 safety, 3 linebackers, 1 OL, 1 TE, 1 DT.

 

So basically, 40% of our top draft picks in the last five years have been at the position you said we don't address early.

 

This is a myth. The problem isn't attempting to address the issue... its the players we are drafting not meeting expectations. If you're consistently having to draft multiple players at a single position in a short period of time, that typically means that the guys you are drafting aren't doing very well, because if they were, you wouldn't need to draft at that position.

 

The reason it appears that we aren't addressing those positions is because one of the WR we drafted was allowed to walk in FA to a big contract that in my opinion he didn't earn, and the other WR is injured. Similarly, the safety we drafted is currently injured and wasn't playing that well before he was injured.

[pitchblack_20]

Lol don't quite think it's time to start over. Honestly, I feel we are just missing a few pieces. I'm praying SSS comes back next year, even if he doesn't, I don't see us taking a reciever high next year. I feel we use another late round pick on a guy with high potential and a low floor. I think we do the opposite of what we did this year as far as offensive and defensive players, with a little more defensive players. But no matter how everything unfolds after the offseason and the draft we WILL be back in contention for another Lombardi next year.

[rmcjacket23]

Lol don't quite think it's time to start over. Honestly, I feel we are just missing a few pieces. I'm praying SSS comes back next year, even if he doesn't, I don't see us taking a reciever high next year. I feel we use another late round pick on a guy with high potential and a low floor. I think we do the opposite of what we did this year as far as offensive and defensive players, with a little more defensive players. But no matter how everything unfolds after the offseason and the draft we WILL be back in contention for another Lombardi next year.

Posted something similar on another thread...

 

If SSS returns, I think they sign a cheap FA veteran and likely add a mid-round WR (3rd or 4th round my guess, maybe as high as 2nd). There's no way they give up on Perriman after this season in my eyes, so I don't think a first round WR is in the cards. If SSS actually does retire, I think they'll invest a bit more into a veteran FA.

 

If that happens, I'd expect first round pick to be either a pass rusher or a secondary player.

 

In my opinion, FS and CB are really the only two positions where you can't really argue we are struggling due to injuries. We've been largely held at CB this season and we just don't have a ton of talent at FS that I see. If they consider strongly moving Webb to FS, than a corner is the right approach. If not, I think FS is a high priority.

 

Some of this may be able to be addressed in FA though, so hard to tell at this point. It feels to me though like they will attempt to chalk up struggles at WR and pass rush to potential injuries, though I'm sure they know they need upgrade both anyway. More talent at CB and safety to me is obvious and I can't see how they don't address it.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Few players we should keep, the linebackers, brandon williams, carl davis.Webb. As for the offense, the tight ends and marshal yanda that is it. The rest must be reevaluated, im sick of jimmy, as soon as he got paid he has sucked.

I think I addressed this in another thread, but no... This is such an overreaction.

Will Hill, Jimmy Smith, Mosley, Doom, Suggs, Carl Davis, Larry Guy, Timmy Jernigan, Brandon Williams, Brent Urban, Daryl Smith, Monroe when healthy, Yanda, KO, Urschel, Wagner, Buck Allen, Lorenzo Taliaferro, Forsett, Juice, Aiken, Givens, Perriman, Steve Smith if he'll come back, Camp if he can stay healthy, all 3 TEs...

All solid or better. Several pro bowl potential players in that mix as well.

This is largely the same team that nearly beat the SB champs in the playoffs last year. The major difference was a couple crippling injuries, and a couple misses on filling holes.

The team, if healthy is closer to being a contender than it is to it's current record. Blowing it up would be a HUGE mistake especially considering how many young promising players there are.

Stay the course. Get healthy in the offseason, nail the draft, and plug a few holes in FA and we're right back to contending. We've been in position to win every single game this season even with all the stupid penalties, turnovers, dropped passes and missed opportunities. It's just been one too many in each loss.

The baggage will be dropped as were seeing with the cuts made yesterday. All the backups will be evaluated the rest of this year to decide who can contribute next year. Our FO will add the necessary talent to fix the issues. We'll see that Perriman is the answer at WR. Urban can be a game changer. We will add a dominant player with our 1st pick in the draft whether it's Bosa, Hargreaves or whoever. And we'll acquire a couple solid starters in FA.

We're only 2-3 solid - not even great, just solid - players away from contending again. Just take a deep breath, try to enjoy the remaining games for what they are (a chance to evaluate our younger players), and get excited for our highest draft pick in a long time.

We don't mess up that high. Mosley, McAlister, Suggs, Ngata, Ogden, Flacco, Jamal Lewis, etc... Get Ozzie in the top half and were probably pulling out a perennial AllPro, potential Hall of Famer. Plenty to be excited about.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Unless Ozzie completely changes his draft strategy I dont see us getting any needs from the draft sadly, instead additions to positions we are solid at already, mainly LB, DT. Every year it seems we ignore positions we need like WR,DB,S untill about the 5th,6th,7th round and expect something out of him. I get rounds often dont matter, quality players can be found anywhere, but scouting late round (bargan) players as opposed to first couple rounds I dont understand.

I guess i can hope though, that we might select a CB or some need in the first couple rounds, havent taken one higher than the 5th round in what will be 4 years (Asa Jackson 2012)

Ozzie typically drafts BPA weighted for needs.

If that continues, which it will, based on our current draft position we'll end up with either Bosa, Hargreaves or Ramsey. At least one of them will be on the board and all 3 fill immediate needs.

All 3 are among the best overall prospects in the draft regardless of position and all 3 have the potential to be perennial All Pros. Probably 3 of the better prospects to come out at their respective positions in quite a while.

I personally have a slight preference for Bosa because I salivate just thinking if what our Dline could be like for the next 3-5+ years with Bosa, Williams, Jernigan, Davis, Urban and Guy.

That line can chew up and spit out blockers, rush the passer, bat passes down, you name it. And with the youth and depth that rotation would just be disgusting. You win in the trenches and that could set us up to have one of, if not THE best offensive and defensive lines in football.

Bosa can rush from DE and can even stand up and rush as an OLB. He's got the size/strength to fight in the trenches, but also the athleticism to rush from the edge or even drop into coverage a little. The dude just looks like he was born to be a Raven... And he might just be on the board for us when the time comes.

[Guest]

With the expection of flacco, ozzie, and harbaugh. Everyone must be reevaluated and either cut or take a pay reduction. This is unacceptable, 2-7 is not something to tolerate, top 5 draft is not something to tolerate. Everyone better watch out, the hard drive is being wiped and cleaned and being reset to factory settings. Time to clean and trim the fat, enough it enough. We have seen everything this team has to offer. Time to cut ties, time to nuke the hard drive, time purge the virus. I think you get the point, how much more of this team do we need to see before we do this seriously?. How many people here feel the same. 

 

Only problem is you're exempting some folks that have to take some of the responsibility.

[atomicfront]

Ozzie typically drafts BPA weighted for needs.

If that continues, which it will, based on our current draft position we'll end up with either Bosa, Hargreaves or Ramsey. At least one of them will be on the board and all 3 fill immediate needs.

All 3 are among the best overall prospects in the draft regardless of position and all 3 have the potential to be perennial All Pros. Probably 3 of the better prospects to come out at their respective positions in quite a while.

I personally have a slight preference for Bosa because I salivate just thinking if what our Dline could be like for the next 3-5+ years with Bosa, Williams, Jernigan, Davis, Urban and Guy.

That line can chew up and spit out blockers, rush the passer, bat passes down, you name it. And with the youth and depth that rotation would just be disgusting. You win in the trenches and that could set us up to have one of, if not THE best offensive and defensive lines in football.

Bosa can rush from DE and can even stand up and rush as an OLB. He's got the size/strength to fight in the trenches, but also the athleticism to rush from the edge or even drop into coverage a little. The dude just looks like he was born to be a Raven... And he might just be on the board for us when the time comes.

 

When we draft we need to take best player available in the first round no matter what the position.  As everyone see injuries happen all the time.  If there a potential future hall of famer at linebacker or defensive tackle although they might not seem like needs you get that guy.  

[rmcjacket23]

When we draft we need to take best player available in the first round no matter what the position.  As everyone see injuries happen all the time.  If there a potential future hall of famer at linebacker or defensive tackle although they might not seem like needs you get that guy.  

When you are as bad as this team is, largely every position on the field could use an upgrade.

 

Outside of QB, there really isn't a position on the team that we couldn't grab a player at in the top 5-10 picks. Even areas where we are strong like MLB and interior Oline, there's either players heading towards retirement or players likely to be released in the near future at those positions.

[Militant X 1]

Off the top of my head...

 

Defense:

1. Practically the entire defensive line (less Canty) can stay, including most of the depth behind it.

2. Mosley, Suggs, Dumervil can stay, and Daryl Smith can stay if he wants to. Need to add a pass rusher/depth at pass rusher.

3. Will Hill can stay, Jimmy Smith can stay, and frankly Webb can stay as well. Need a quality FS and some upgrades/depth at corner.

Offense:

1. I'm fine with practically the entire offensive line, though KO is likely gone so we either promote internally or find a new starting guard. They're not as consistent as they were last season, but our Oline is still easily one of the strengths of this team.

2. QB is obviously fine

3. Obviously need to bring in at least two quality WRs somehow. 

4. Probably could use an upgrade at RB as well.

5. TEs aren't as good as everyone thinks, but they are fine.

 

Basically, upgrades at WR, FS, DB, pass rusher and RB are the five main areas. That's probably realistically about 6-8 players, which is more than a one year job, but not all of them have to be starters either.

 

I'm not fine with Monroe cause he seems to be too soft and Daryl Smith is good but getting slower and slower. I'd love to start seeing some young hungry lions at the MLB and OLB positions as well who can not only rush the passer and set the edges but also can fly from sideline to sideline to make plays.

 

I've also been saying that the Ravens need at least 2-3 receivers that can make plays opposed to just having 1 guy.  I definitely could see an upgrade at the RB spot also.  I like our TE's and want to see more of them actually.  I think they can become "gronk-like" (especially Gillmore) if more of the offense goes through them.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

When we draft we need to take best player available in the first round no matter what the position.  As everyone see injuries happen all the time.  If there a potential future hall of famer at linebacker or defensive tackle although they might not seem like needs you get that guy.  

 

BPA is another one of those trite expressions that has been often mentioned as Ozzie's draft philosophy. I have no problem with it as long as it is based on our most acute needs at the time. Otherwise, his philosophy could fall prey to the other BPA, that is, bad positional analysis. I think this year's draft was a successful one; unfortunately, it was too little, too late. 

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Utter made-up nonsense.

 

Since Flacco entered the league he has 67 games (including post-season) with a QB Rating of 90 or better.  There are only 5 QB's with more than that in the same time span: Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers, and Peyton Manning.  4 out of 5 are unquestionably going to the Hall of Fame, and Rivers has been in that conversation as well.  So only played at a high level in a handful of games?  Not true at all.

 

He doesn't make other players better, they make HIM better?  Are you for real?  Flacco has been working with undersized receivers over the age of 30 and on the decline as his #1 for his entire career, except in 2013 with Torrey Smith, who is clearly not an NFL #1 quality receiver, and this year with Kamar Aiken, who isn't even in the same ballpark as Torrey Smith.  

 

You want to be overly critical of Flacco because of THIS SEASON?  When he had a few games with a healthy Steve Smith Sr (who happened to have a serious case of not being able to catch in the end zone) and a few more games with an injured Steve Smith Sr, and more than half the season including the rest of it will be without him at all.  He's got 5 undrafted players and a guy that has only been here a few weeks and wasn't with this offense during training camp and pre-season, who couldn't get snaps in St Louis (possibly the 2nd worse receiving corps in the NFL this year, and we're so bad that we're picking up THERE scraps!).  He's got 2 rookie tight ends and a 2nd year tight end who was never supposed to be a receiving threat.

 

Crockett Gillmore is having a great year.  This is not a player that was supposed to make Flacco look good, he was a blocking tight end coming out of the draft.  Suddenly he's a good receiving threat, and you give him all the credit AND discredit Flacco by saying he's being made to look good by the receiver?  If this were Tom Brady, you'd be saying "Wow, look at Brady making Gillmore a great tight end receiving threat!"  But since it's Joe, you give Gillmore credit for making Flacco look good, rather than the other way around?  

 

Kamar Aiken couldn't catch a single pass when he was in Tom Brady's system.  Why didn't Tom Brady make him "better"?  Oh, but I guess it's Aiken who is making Flacco look good, not the other way around?  Well, this is besides the fact that Aiken DOESN'T look good, and is making Flacco look WORSE than he is, because Aiken  ISN'T good!  That's why Aiken couldn't do squat on the Patriots, with Tom Brady, a system and player who are adept at making the most out of anyone, but Aiken just isn't good enough for them, but here Joe is with Aiken as his freaking #1 receiver.

 

Flacco's stats even look worse than they should because his receiver let him down a lot. He leads the league in two dubious categories: TD passes dropped by the recevier in the end zone, and pass completions where the receiver was tackled within 1 yard of the end zone.  Joe could easily have 20 passing TDs on his stat sheet right now if his receivers were actually even NFL average in the red zone and could get that extra yard for a TD, or hell just catch the ball when it comes your way in the end zone.

 

A lot has gone wrong for Flacco this year and he's working with the worst receiving corps in the NFL, but you want to put all the blame on him and give him none of the credit and say that his receivers make HIM look good.  That's such a joke.

 

I don't know how this morphed into another Joe Flacco topic but I agree with your position wrt Joe's value. In selling real estate, the three most important things are location, location and location. In running an offense, the three most important things are weapons, weapons and weapons. Joe completed 34 out of 45 passes on Sunday to 10 different weapons. One of the problems is his weapons aren't as effective as the weapons of most of our opponents. As you correctly pointed out, Joe will make some of the mediocre receivers we have look better than they are by year's end simply out of necessity.

 

It seems to me that "What we have here is failure to communicate!" to coin a familiar phrase. We don't need to start over. We need to build the team through the draft as we did when the franchise was started in 1996. Its called getting back to basics. Currently, 18 of our 53 roster players came to us by way of free agency or trading away draft picks. By simple arithmetic, that's over 33% of our team who aren't "homegrown" Ravens. With all due respect to the 18 mercenaries, some of them don't even know what our motto "Play Like A Raven" means, not to mention what "Next Man Up" means. Most of the top franchises have far fewer non-drafted players than 18 with the New England Patriots having the least. Huh? Go figure!