Time to start over

[curtis0360]

With the expection of flacco, ozzie, and harbaugh. Everyone must be reevaluated and either cut or take a pay reduction. This is unacceptable, 2-7 is not something to tolerate, top 5 draft is not something to tolerate. Everyone better watch out, the hard drive is being wiped and cleaned and being reset to factory settings. Time to clean and trim the fat, enough it enough. We have seen everything this team has to offer. Time to cut ties, time to nuke the hard drive, time purge the virus. I think you get the point, how much more of this team do we need to see before we do this seriously?. How many people here feel the same. 

[Ravens4Real]

So many holes on this team.

[curtis0360]

At the very least start reevaluating, its so bad its not even funny.  

[curtis0360]

So many holes on this team.

Few players we should keep, the linebackers, brandon williams, carl davis.Webb. As for the offense, the tight ends and marshal yanda that is it. The rest must be reevaluated, im sick of jimmy, as soon as he got paid he has sucked.  

[redrum52]

I think you're wrong.

[Ravens2343]

Few players we should keep, the linebackers, brandon williams, carl davis.Webb. As for the offense, the tight ends and marshal yanda that is it. The rest must be reevaluated, im sick of jimmy, as soon as he got paid he has sucked.  

 

That's the type of overreaction that will keep us picking in the top 5 for the next 5-8 years.  We have a very good foundation in place and a good draft coupled with some salary cap space should allow us to get right back to where we belong. 

 

As for Jimmy, he is still recovering from a devastating injury that is especially hard for skill position players to recover from.  He is young and has proven to us he can be an effective corner.

[curtis0360]

That's the type of overreaction that will keep us picking in the top 5 for the next 5-8 years.  We have a very good foundation in place and a good draft coupled with some salary cap space should allow us to get right back to where we belong. 

 

As for Jimmy, he is still recovering from a devastating injury that is especially hard for skill position players to recover from.  He is young and has proven to us he can be an effective corner.

Who hasnt been bad this year, i want you to think about it, these players i say we should keep, are the foundation you are talking about. Not sure what other players you see that make up our foundation?.

[Drew P]

Its a .500 league. Any squad with a legit QB is a few players away from making a run. Get a blue chip CB, WR and pass rusher the Ravens can make some noise.

[Purple_City39]

Who hasnt been bad this year, i want you to think about it, these players i say we should keep, are the foundation you are talking about. Not sure what other players you see that make up our foundation?.

 

Everyone except Yanda and Williams have been bad at some point.  And many of those same players were great for Baltimore last year.  You just don't clean house because of one bad season.  That's how you become the Cleveland Browns.  

[rmcjacket23]

Who hasnt been bad this year, i want you to think about it, these players i say we should keep, are the foundation you are talking about. Not sure what other players you see that make up our foundation?.

Off the top of my head...

 

Defense:

1. Practically the entire defensive line (less Canty) can stay, including most of the depth behind it.

2. Mosley, Suggs, Dumervil can stay, and Daryl Smith can stay if he wants to. Need to add a pass rusher/depth at pass rusher.

3. Will Hill can stay, Jimmy Smith can stay, and frankly Webb can stay as well. Need a quality FS and some upgrades/depth at corner.

Offense:

1. I'm fine with practically the entire offensive line, though KO is likely gone so we either promote internally or find a new starting guard. They're not as consistent as they were last season, but our Oline is still easily one of the strengths of this team.

2. QB is obviously fine

3. Obviously need to bring in at least two quality WRs somehow. 

4. Probably could use an upgrade at RB as well.

5. TEs aren't as good as everyone thinks, but they are fine.

 

Basically, upgrades at WR, FS, DB, pass rusher and RB are the five main areas. That's probably realistically about 6-8 players, which is more than a one year job, but not all of them have to be starters either.

[January J]

That's the type of overreaction that will keep us picking in the top 5 for the next 5-8 years.  We have a very good foundation in place and a good draft coupled with some salary cap space should allow us to get right back to where we belong. 

 

As for Jimmy, he is still recovering from a devastating injury that is especially hard for skill position players to recover from.  He is young and has proven to us he can be an effective corner.

right on.

[MissRay27]

The first place to start reevaluating is the Scout office. They have missed so badly on a few of the first, second. even third round  picks for the last five years. No pro bowlers or game changers except Mosely  last year. Who exactly signed off on Perriman ? A man with an underlying medical condition that maybe is the reason why he has not been able to heal quickly from what was originally considered a minor sprain or thought not to take four months to heal. A medical miscue on the staff during evaluation process? How many of those draft picks over the last five years are still on this team? Not many of the upper level picks are presently on the squad or are contributing. There has been a revolving door of wide receivers, defensive backs and running backs. Next, regardless of what Harbs will say, Trestman is terrible. No imagination at times. Try going up tempo once and awhile. Our tight ends are starting to really prove beneficial, get them the ball more with different formations, put one of them on the move and flex one out in the same formation. Watch what those cheating Patriots do. Next, it's time for a new receivers coach, sorry Bobby Engram, you're just not getting the job done. Over, the last five years, no other drafted wide receiver, and we've had a few except Torry has done anything and none of them are on the team currently contributing. Next the defensive backs coach again leaves much to be desired and I think we all know too that lack of good talent has been critical.  

[Purple&Black#20]

No exceptions, everybody and it starts with those three. Flacco is just okay. He's only played at a very high level in a hand full of games. The superbowl run and a couple of AFC championship games. He doesn't make players around him better it's the other way around. Ozzie loves he's Alabama players a little to much. We drafted Mosley and needed a FS then. Calving Pryor IMO would have been the perfect raven. He would of brought back the physical play to Baltimore. Mosley is a good player don't get me wrong but drafting A Brown the year before didn't make sense. Upshaw is done after this season. He's slow and over weight for his position. Harbaugh cut and traded some very important parts to our team after the superbowl. Boldin in my opinion was the #1 key to our superbowl run. You cut Pollard who brought fear to wr's and only saved 1m. He cleaned house of our vocal leaders in the locker room. Do we ever think to question why ed didn't finish his career as a raven? Harbaugh wanted complete control of the locker room so he cleaned house!! It starts at the top!

[Ravenseconbeast]

More like starting with our franchise QB.   The guy always finds a way to screw up on critical time.   3 straight INTs.   Even after all these years he still eyes one targets.   Zero understanding where opponent is coming toward him.  

 

Does he need to be scrapped? Maybe not.   Does he need to be evaluated?  Absolutely.  He isn't exempt.  He needs to improve/up his game significantly.   We paid him a humongous contract.   Now he needs to shave that monster to help him load on weapons.   If Joe/Linta takes my team hostage then get rid of him.  Asap

[Sami84]

More like starting with our franchise QB.   The guy always finds a way to screw up on critical time.   3 straight INTs.   Even after all these years he still eyes one targets.   Zero understanding where opponent is coming toward him.  

 

Does he need to be scrapped? Maybe not.   Does he need to be evaluated?  Absolutely.  He isn't exempt.  He needs to improve/up his game significantly.   We paid him a humongous contract.   Now he needs to shave that monster to help him load on weapons.   If Joe/Linta takes my team hostage then get rid of him.  Asap

 

Couldn't have said it better. If Joe and his scumbag of an agent ( believe me..this guy is about draining teams bank accounts) play hardball joe can you know what off.

[redrum52]

More like starting with our franchise QB.   The guy always finds a way to screw up on critical time.   3 straight INTs.   Even after all these years he still eyes one targets.   Zero understanding where opponent is coming toward him.  

 

Does he need to be scrapped? Maybe not.   Does he need to be evaluated?  Absolutely.  He isn't exempt.  He needs to improve/up his game significantly.   We paid him a humongous contract.   Now he needs to shave that monster to help him load on weapons.   If Joe/Linta takes my team hostage then get rid of him.  Asap

There is no taking us hostage.  The truth is, if he doesn't want to restructure, he doesn't have to.  The team doesn't have much of an option in cutting him, and if the ONLY way I see them doing that, is if they decide to fully clean house.  New coach, GM, everything, and I highly doubt that happens.

[usmccharles]

Its not like players and the staff dont get evaluated every year.  You dont just clean house and cut random players, then you will end up like the lions, browns, jags, etc...pretty clear how this thread is going to go...im staying out, just blows my mind how Ravens fans can talk this badly about their own team.  Theres a difference between being a realist and just out right rude. 

[Sami84]

There is no taking us hostage.  The truth is, if he doesn't want to restructure, he doesn't have to.  The team doesn't have much of an option in cutting him, and if the ONLY way I see them doing that, is if they decide to fully clean house.  New coach, GM, everything, and I highly doubt that happens.

 

if he doesn't want to restructure he can you know what-off after we have another losing season while he tries to fulfill his real dream and that is to apparently have 11 kids.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Sami84

[52520Andrew]

Everyone except Yanda and Williams have been bad at some point.  And many of those same players were great for Baltimore last year.  You just don't clean house because of one bad season.  That's how you become the Cleveland Browns.  

 

This is all that really needs to be said. 

[Purple_City39]

More like starting with our franchise QB.   The guy always finds a way to screw up on critical time.   3 straight INTs.   Even after all these years he still eyes one targets.   Zero understanding where opponent is coming toward him.  

2 INTs, one of which bounced off Aiken's hands that he then tipped to a defender.  So only 1 INT was Joe's fault out of 2.  The 3rd turnover was a fumble

[Winchester]

I dunno bout cleaning house but the ravens need some alpha males!! It begins with Ozzie. The scouts pointed out some great talent. Ozzie was just to passive to make the moves. And content to wait for the hat to get to him. If not for Biscotti he would have been completely content drafting his next best qb on the board and put another quarter in the qb merry go round!! I know Ozzie has a cult following in Baltimore for drafting Ogden over Phillips and it being the right move. But he was surrounded by competent front office talent and scouts assembled by belicheat in Cleveland at the time. Ozzie's own admission he learned from belicheat and those guys!! He has got away from bpa and lets players get old and retire. Then scrambles to replace them resulting in bust after bust!! Then he does not make moves for his scouts top players. He takes whomever is left in the hat and labels them the replacement for departed players. How does a team not have any young alpha males, low on talent all around and so many needs yet in salary cap ruins not hold the gm responsible??

[K-Dog]

Every time someone says "Pay cut" I laugh out loud.

[callahan09]

No exceptions, everybody and it starts with those three. Flacco is just okay. He's only played at a very high level in a hand full of games. The superbowl run and a couple of AFC championship games. He doesn't make players around him better it's the other way around. Ozzie loves he's Alabama players a little to much. We drafted Mosley and needed a FS then. Calving Pryor IMO would have been the perfect raven. He would of brought back the physical play to Baltimore. Mosley is a good player don't get me wrong but drafting A Brown the year before didn't make sense. Upshaw is done after this season. He's slow and over weight for his position. Harbaugh cut and traded some very important parts to our team after the superbowl. Boldin in my opinion was the #1 key to our superbowl run. You cut Pollard who brought fear to wr's and only saved 1m. He cleaned house of our vocal leaders in the locker room. Do we ever think to question why ed didn't finish his career as a raven? Harbaugh wanted complete control of the locker room so he cleaned house!! It starts at the top!

 

Utter made-up nonsense.

 

Since Flacco entered the league he has 67 games (including post-season) with a QB Rating of 90 or better.  There are only 5 QB's with more than that in the same time span: Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers, and Peyton Manning.  4 out of 5 are unquestionably going to the Hall of Fame, and Rivers has been in that conversation as well.  So only played at a high level in a handful of games?  Not true at all.

 

He doesn't make other players better, they make HIM better?  Are you for real?  Flacco has been working with undersized receivers over the age of 30 and on the decline as his #1 for his entire career, except in 2013 with Torrey Smith, who is clearly not an NFL #1 quality receiver, and this year with Kamar Aiken, who isn't even in the same ballpark as Torrey Smith.  

 

You want to be overly critical of Flacco because of THIS SEASON?  When he had a few games with a healthy Steve Smith Sr (who happened to have a serious case of not being able to catch in the end zone) and a few more games with an injured Steve Smith Sr, and more than half the season including the rest of it will be without him at all.  He's got 5 undrafted players and a guy that has only been here a few weeks and wasn't with this offense during training camp and pre-season, who couldn't get snaps in St Louis (possibly the 2nd worse receiving corps in the NFL this year, and we're so bad that we're picking up THERE scraps!).  He's got 2 rookie tight ends and a 2nd year tight end who was never supposed to be a receiving threat.

 

Crockett Gillmore is having a great year.  This is not a player that was supposed to make Flacco look good, he was a blocking tight end coming out of the draft.  Suddenly he's a good receiving threat, and you give him all the credit AND discredit Flacco by saying he's being made to look good by the receiver?  If this were Tom Brady, you'd be saying "Wow, look at Brady making Gillmore a great tight end receiving threat!"  But since it's Joe, you give Gillmore credit for making Flacco look good, rather than the other way around?  

 

Kamar Aiken couldn't catch a single pass when he was in Tom Brady's system.  Why didn't Tom Brady make him "better"?  Oh, but I guess it's Aiken who is making Flacco look good, not the other way around?  Well, this is besides the fact that Aiken DOESN'T look good, and is making Flacco look WORSE than he is, because Aiken  ISN'T good!  That's why Aiken couldn't do squat on the Patriots, with Tom Brady, a system and player who are adept at making the most out of anyone, but Aiken just isn't good enough for them, but here Joe is with Aiken as his freaking #1 receiver.

 

Flacco's stats even look worse than they should because his receiver let him down a lot. He leads the league in two dubious categories: TD passes dropped by the recevier in the end zone, and pass completions where the receiver was tackled within 1 yard of the end zone.  Joe could easily have 20 passing TDs on his stat sheet right now if his receivers were actually even NFL average in the red zone and could get that extra yard for a TD, or hell just catch the ball when it comes your way in the end zone.

 

A lot has gone wrong for Flacco this year and he's working with the worst receiving corps in the NFL, but you want to put all the blame on him and give him none of the credit and say that his receivers make HIM look good.  That's such a joke.

[Guest Omerta]

With the expection of flacco, ozzie, and harbaugh. Everyone must be reevaluated and either cut or take a pay reduction. This is unacceptable, 2-7 is not something to tolerate, top 5 draft is not something to tolerate. Everyone better watch out, the hard drive is being wiped and cleaned and being reset to factory settings. Time to clean and trim the fat, enough it enough. We have seen everything this team has to offer. Time to cut ties, time to nuke the hard drive, time purge the virus. I think you get the point, how much more of this team do we need to see before we do this seriously?. How many people here feel the same. 

 

I would not even exclude Harbaugh. His role with the team really needs ot be evaluated imo.

[Guest Omerta]

I dunno bout cleaning house but the ravens need some alpha males!! It begins with Ozzie. The scouts pointed out some great talent. Ozzie was just to passive to make the moves. And content to wait for the hat to get to him. If not for Biscotti he would have been completely content drafting his next best qb on the board and put another quarter in the qb merry go round!! I know Ozzie has a cult following in Baltimore for drafting Ogden over Phillips and it being the right move. But he was surrounded by competent front office talent and scouts assembled by belicheat in Cleveland at the time. Ozzie's own admission he learned from belicheat and those guys!! He has got away from bpa and lets players get old and retire. Then scrambles to replace them resulting in bust after bust!! Then he does not make moves for his scouts top players. He takes whomever is left in the hat and labels them the replacement for departed players. How does a team not have any young alpha males, low on talent all around and so many needs yet in salary cap ruins not hold the gm responsible??

Put the drafting record of Ozzie in Baltimore against BB. What people dont realize is the BB is well below average in drafting, however, he is a brilliant coach who gets the most out of players. We dont have that. Ozzie si fine, look at the common denominator here, would you say Ozzie lost his touch around the time Harbagh got here with his"double red star" players like John Simon ? ITs not Ozzie. 

[Edgar]

2 INTs, one of which bounced off Aiken's hands that he then tipped to a defender.  So only 1 INT was Joe's fault out of 2.  The 3rd turnover was a fumble

Would have been nice if Aiken caught it and perhaps he should have given he had both hands on it but that wasn't close to a good throw. He fired a rocket,clearly high making it a difficult catch.

[Chros13]

Utter made-up nonsense.

 

Since Flacco entered the league he has 67 games (including post-season) with a QB Rating of 90 or better.  There are only 5 QB's with more than that in the same time span: Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers, and Peyton Manning.  4 out of 5 are unquestionably going to the Hall of Fame, and Rivers has been in that conversation as well.  So only played at a high level in a handful of games?  Not true at all.

 

He doesn't make other players better, they make HIM better?  Are you for real?  Flacco has been working with undersized receivers over the age of 30 and on the decline as his #1 for his entire career, except in 2013 with Torrey Smith, who is clearly not an NFL #1 quality receiver, and this year with Kamar Aiken, who isn't even in the same ballpark as Torrey Smith.  

 

You want to be overly critical of Flacco because of THIS SEASON?  When he had a few games with a healthy Steve Smith Sr (who happened to have a serious case of not being able to catch in the end zone) and a few more games with an injured Steve Smith Sr, and more than half the season including the rest of it will be without him at all.  He's got 5 undrafted players and a guy that has only been here a few weeks and wasn't with this offense during training camp and pre-season, who couldn't get snaps in St Louis (possibly the 2nd worse receiving corps in the NFL this year, and we're so bad that we're picking up THERE scraps!).  He's got 2 rookie tight ends and a 2nd year tight end who was never supposed to be a receiving threat.

 

Crockett Gillmore is having a great year.  This is not a player that was supposed to make Flacco look good, he was a blocking tight end coming out of the draft.  Suddenly he's a good receiving threat, and you give him all the credit AND discredit Flacco by saying he's being made to look good by the receiver?  If this were Tom Brady, you'd be saying "Wow, look at Brady making Gillmore a great tight end receiving threat!"  But since it's Joe, you give Gillmore credit for making Flacco look good, rather than the other way around?  

 

Kamar Aiken couldn't catch a single pass when he was in Tom Brady's system.  Why didn't Tom Brady make him "better"?  Oh, but I guess it's Aiken who is making Flacco look good, not the other way around?  Well, this is besides the fact that Aiken DOESN'T look good, and is making Flacco look WORSE than he is, because Aiken  ISN'T good!  That's why Aiken couldn't do squat on the Patriots, with Tom Brady, a system and player who are adept at making the most out of anyone, but Aiken just isn't good enough for them, but here Joe is with Aiken as his freaking #1 receiver.

 

Flacco's stats even look worse than they should because his receiver let him down a lot. He leads the league in two dubious categories: TD passes dropped by the recevier in the end zone, and pass completions where the receiver was tackled within 1 yard of the end zone.  Joe could easily have 20 passing TDs on his stat sheet right now if his receivers were actually even NFL average in the red zone and could get that extra yard for a TD, or hell just catch the ball when it comes your way in the end zone.

 

A lot has gone wrong for Flacco this year and he's working with the worst receiving corps in the NFL, but you want to put all the blame on him and give him none of the credit and say that his receivers make HIM look good.  That's such a joke.

 

This!

Callahan speaks truth with this post.

[Kid87]

I don't wanna tank. I feel like we don't need to rebuild, just need some key pieces.. but I mean If we do rebuild, I'd rather Suggs retire now.

[Purple&Black#20]

I agree that the weapons he has now are not good! But seriously, the Ravens defense carried Flacco the first 5 years. Early in is career he had Mason and Clayton and they was undersized but that doesn't makeup for his ball placements. Everybody talks about how strong his arm is... but when he throws the deep ball over 90% are jumpballs. Flacco can't read DF's that well. Week 1.. Crockett should of came up with that catch but if he took some air from under ball the safety won't have much time to get over. Week 2... Steve Smith open for the game winning TD that would put the game out of reach. Gillmore is a mismatch nightmare. His blocking stood out a little more than his pass catching abilities. In all I thinks he's the best all around TE we have. You can win with him only if he good maybe even great receivers around him and keep him in the shotgun. Him under center always hindered his game.

[DenverRaven]

Can we purge part of the fanbase too?

 

All in all, I think the foundation is fine. We need a few play-makers at key positions, but the base for a 10+ win team is already there.

Edited November 17, 2015 by DenverRaven