Bosa, Hargreaves or Ramsey?

[Sizzlebshu]

In the first round or the second? He might last into the top of the 2nd, and I'd certainly trade up for him. He would be a great pick!

 

Man, Clemson sure has churned out some quality players, huh? That place has been a factory for good NFL players of late. I need to see just how many have been effective, but I think they have a lot of very good players in recent years coming from that program.

It would have to be second at this point which sucks for him (potentially fantastic for us) because if he played the whole year, there's very little doubt in my mind he would have played himself into the top 10 potentially 5 especially given how good Clemson is without him right now. 

[JoeyFlex5]

For where we are picking, if we get info and if he declares, I want Mike Williams from Clemson.

I thought I was the only one. That guy really doesn't get enough praise Around here, I think he's a better version of Doctson

[Winchester]

I thought I was the only one. That guy really doesn't get enough praise Around here, I think he's a better version of Doctson

I dunno bout that now dude. Doctson is pretty smooth and shifty for a big receiver!! I like Williams a lot to. It is very close between them and a long draft process before one plays out as the better receiver.

[PurpleCity5]

Mike Williams in the 2nd would be a steal, but where will he fall? Hes too talented to fall into the 3rd or 4th. Maybe he should stick around for another year.

[Winchester]

TBH I do not get the enamoration with Hargreaves. He is a very good talent at cornerback. But he would have to be a top2 in the NFL before making a big enough dent in overall team defense. Especially when the rush on QBs is on the weaker side. AND in today's NFL even top shutdown cornerbacks effect is watered down. Only way I could be on board with Hargreaves is if ravens see a couple year reload plan with a couple drafts of picking high and an offseason with lots of cap space to maneuver. And ravens grab Hargreaves a bpa and accept he could struggle as a rookie with a weak rush in front of him and plan on upgrading the rush and LB the following draft and free agency period. Whereas an elite edge rusher,left tackle or receiver would instantly transform the defense or offense. It would be so interesting to watch the offensive line if the ravens could land Tunsil!! While keeping Yanda,Urschel and Osemele together. I believe by the end of the season Harbs will see that the ravens can not break up the triad of Yanda,Osemele and Urschel!! As the group will be the unchallenged best interior trio in the league!!And doing so would be a step in the wrong direction!! Zuttah would provide very quality depth in the event of an injury. And whomever does not win the right tackle position out of Wagner and Monroe couple provide quality depth at tackle. If Wagner wins the job at right tackle then I realize Monroe would be an expensive backup left tackle. But he is waaaay to injury prone and inconsistent to be counted on to protect Joe Cools blind side. I see so much Walter Jones in Tunsil!! He would open up so many schemes and routes and game plans for Trestman to take advantage of!! The run game would dominate and mixing run and throw to a degree that would have defenses so very off balance by quarter 4. The ravens could run a very precision potent high scoring offense with balance!! And the ravens precision offense would be very unique to any other in NFL history. The ravens offensive line would be more than effective precision finesse blocking like other high octane scoring teams in the NFL. The ravens formidable line could punch a dominating defense back in the mouth with very physical blocking from Yanda Urschel Osemele and Tunsil. Then throw in Wagner back to form and Gilmore who could be the best blocking TE in the league. My idea ravens draft picks would be Tunsil then a receiver like Boyd,Doctson or Williams. The ravens could outscore any team while playing ball control simultaneously. Similar to the 1998 Denver Broncos. The ravens Oline could be the Oline version of the 2000 defense!! On side note has anybody noticed Urschel lately?? He is a mauler and could end up a top3 center or even best in the league.

[January J]

TBH I do not get the enamoration with Hargreaves. He is a very good talent at cornerback. But he would have to be a top2 in the NFL before making a big enough dent in overall team defense. Especially when the rush on QBs is on the weaker side. AND in today's NFL even top shutdown cornerbacks effect is watered down. Only way I could be on board with Hargreaves is if ravens see a couple year reload plan with a couple drafts of picking high and an offseason with lots of cap space to maneuver. And ravens grab Hargreaves a bpa and accept he could struggle as a rookie with a weak rush in front of him and plan on upgrading the rush and LB the following draft and free agency period. Whereas an elite edge rusher,left tackle or receiver would instantly transform the defense or offense. It would be so interesting to watch the offensive line if the ravens could land Tunsil!! While keeping Yanda,Urschel and Osemele together. I believe by the end of the season Harbs will see that the ravens can not break up the triad of Yanda,Osemele and Urschel!! As the group will be the unchallenged best interior trio in the league!!And doing so would be a step in the wrong direction!! Zuttah would provide very quality depth in the event of an injury. And whomever does not win the right tackle position out of Wagner and Monroe couple provide quality depth at tackle. If Wagner wins the job at right tackle then I realize Monroe would be an expensive backup left tackle. But he is waaaay to injury prone and inconsistent to be counted on to protect Joe Cools blind side. I see so much Walter Jones in Tunsil!! He would open up so many schemes and routes and game plans for Trestman to take advantage of!! The run game would dominate and mixing run and throw to a degree that would have defenses so very off balance by quarter 4. The ravens could run a very precision potent high scoring offense with balance!! And the ravens precision offense would be very unique to any other in NFL history. The ravens offensive line would be more than effective precision finesse blocking like other high octane scoring teams in the NFL. The ravens formidable line could punch a dominating defense back in the mouth with very physical blocking from Yanda Urschel Osemele and Tunsil. Then throw in Wagner back to form and Gilmore who could be the best blocking TE in the league. My idea ravens draft picks would be Tunsil then a receiver like Boyd,Doctson or Williams. The ravens could outscore any team while playing ball control simultaneously. Similar to the 1998 Denver Broncos. The ravens Oline could be the Oline version of the 2000 defense!! On side note has anybody noticed Urschel lately?? He is a mauler and could end up a top3 center or even best in the league.

not sure I agree about Hargreaves but I def agree about tunsil. But either way I don't see us being able to retain KO even if we wanted to. He will be a cap casualty. I also don't see us ignoring the defense in the first 2 rounds. If we go LT first then I think we would wait until the third to draft a receiver like cooper and nab a corner in the 2nd. tunsil, KO and yanda would be a nightmare for opponents - just seems too good to be true and don't see it happening. We've already most likely played our way out of tunsils range anyway. Right now we're looking at the Ogbah- Ramsey- Stanley and mayyyybe hargreave range.

[GrimCoconut]

You keep talking about Tunsil but what do you propose if he's gone? What if he goes #1 overall? I mean, I don't disagree that he looks like a beast, but to hitch your wagon to him without much wiggle room seems kinda foolish imo. You'll probably say Bosa, but what if he's gone at #2?

[PurpleCity5]

Yeah I think Tunsil as a possibility for us has drowned. I don't we'll be able to get him honestly. I don't see any reason for Tennesse or San Diego to pass on him. I don't even think he passes the top 3.

Im comfident he'll be a Titan if he's there.

Edited December 5, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[gabefergy]

I don't think it would be the end of the world to lose him. The cap will only see a $4M rise, which sucks, I was really hoping for the $10M, so I think you have to make some cuts. Canty has played really well since returning but he'll get cut. I also see Daryl Smith as well. With Flacco's contract re-do you'll at least see a solid rise in cap space but I think this team will be out to sign at least 2 or 3 quality players. 

 

If he is open to the move at FS, then I say go for it, can't be worse than what we have now honestly. 

2016 cap numbers came out? Even with some likely cuts and Flacco extension, the Ravens are still going to be tight against the cap from what I have seen.

 

I think Webb and Hill would be a good tandem at safety. That would allow Lewis to be let go or kept as a reserve where he could compete with Brooks/Elam and maybe Levine or Trawick as reserves at the position. That's not terrible.

 

Wright has actually played decently at CB and we will be getting Will Allen back. I'd try to re-sign Wright for cheap and draft a CB early, hope Walker develops and Jimmy bounces back.

 

In this scenario, I think Hargreaves is the best option, but I wouldn't mind taking a guy like Kendall Fuller in the 2nd. There are some other mid round guys I like as well, so if we went WR or Edge in the first round, I think the secondary will still be improved without having to invest too many resources there.

 

edit: according to this article via Schefter, expect a $7-10M increase

 

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/12/04/nfl-salary-cap-2016-season-projected-rise

Edited December 5, 2015 by gabefergy

[gabefergy]

For where we are picking, if we get info and if he declares, I want Mike Williams from Clemson. 

Yeah, he's a playmaker. Medical eval is clearly going to be critical here. I think he will be among several nice WR options in the 2nd round.

[BmoreBird22]

Yeah, he's a playmaker. Medical eval is clearly going to be critical here. I think he will be among several nice WR options in the 2nd round.

Everything I've heard is suggesting he'll stay at Clemson, which is the smart move because he'd likely be the best receiver available at the start of the 2016 CFB season.

[gabefergy]

Everything I've heard is suggesting he'll stay at Clemson, which is the smart move because he'd likely be the best receiver available at the start of the 2016 CFB season.

I haven't heard anything definitive either way, but it makes sense if he thinks he will be a  first round pick next draft. 

[BmoreBird22]

I haven't heard anything definitive either way, but it makes sense if he thinks he will be a first round pick next draft.

I just see no reason for him to come out unless he 100% is certain he'll check out. I think he's a first round talent this year, but he needs to check out

However, if he does check out and does declare, he won't slip because of his injury. I think people fail to understand that if a player isn't in jeopardy of missing a portion of his rookie season, his draft position won't suffer due to one injury. I'd argue he's in the top three of the receivers in this draft with the only real knock being raw route running

Edited December 5, 2015 by BmoreBird22

[ravensnation5220]

Just watched vh3 get burned by calvin Ridley a true freshman (talented one at that) then the ball gets underthrown and ridley still manages to outjump 2 florida defenders to make the catch. Not what you wanna see from vh3

[allblackraven]

Just watched vh3 get burned by calvin Ridley a true freshman (talented one at that) then the ball gets underthrown and ridley still manages to outjump 2 florida defenders to make the catch. Not what you wanna see from vh3

Yup, Hargreaves isn't playing well today so far

[Cillmatic]

Yup, Hargreaves isn't playing well today so far

Lol, ONE play! People hate on Hargreaves a lot for some reason.

Not Hargreaves fault his safety decided to go Elam on him. If the safety does his job no ones even talking.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Cillmatic

[ravensnation5220]

Yup, Hargreaves isn't playing well today so far

i feel like its been this whole year. He has 4 picks (mainly off deflections or bad passes) but he only has like 2 or 3 passes defensed, i know he doesnt have much else to prove but this is the sec champ game. Anyways ill be looking at mackensie alexander later tonight im really starting to turn the corner on him

[usmccharles]

i feel like its been this whole year. He has 4 picks (mainly off deflections or bad passes) but he only has like 2 or 3 passes defensed, i know he doesnt have much else to prove but this is the sec champ game. Anyways ill be looking at mackensie alexander later tonight im really starting to turn the corner on him

how many times was he thrown at though? That is important to put things into context

[PurpleCity5]

2016 cap numbers came out? Even with some likely cuts and Flacco extension, the Ravens are still going to be tight against the cap from what I have seen.

 

I think Webb and Hill would be a good tandem at safety. That would allow Lewis to be let go or kept as a reserve where he could compete with Brooks/Elam and maybe Levine or Trawick as reserves at the position. That's not terrible.

 

Wright has actually played decently at CB and we will be getting Will Allen back. I'd try to re-sign Wright for cheap and draft a CB early, hope Walker develops and Jimmy bounces back.

 

In this scenario, I think Hargreaves is the best option, but I wouldn't mind taking a guy like Kendall Fuller in the 2nd. There are some other mid round guys I like as well, so if we went WR or Edge in the first round, I think the secondary will still be improved without having to invest too many resources there.

 

edit: according to this article via Schefter, expect a $7-10M increase

 

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/12/04/nfl-salary-cap-2016-season-projected-rise

Well that's weird, I saw an earlier report that said that said that the cap was set at $147M to $155M, which would only lead to a $4M increase in cap. Hm, well more cap room is a good thing. 

 

As far as CB goes, Wright has played well, I'd bring him back. He deserve it. Will Davis is a guy I really like and would hope we bring back as well. 

 

If Webb was to return as a FS, I wouldn't be against it. I just think that at this point, with the cap troubles that we have, we should exhaust what we can to help this team. 

 

I think we should have some breathing room, but nothing big honestly. 

 

Edit: Yeah, this was Jason Cole from B/R who reported it, smh. I need to stay about from listening to his "credited sources". 

Edited December 5, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[January J]

Just watching the Florida / Alabama game so this is the first time I've gotten to thoroughly watch vh3 in action. Here are a few notes I took down on Hargreaves. Keep in mind this is just based on 1 game and I'm not a Scout so I don't know exactly what to look for. This is just my impression and what I took from his performance.

- Saw him blow one coverage very early on in the first quarter on the very first drive. Resulted in a 17 yard gain or so. But he rebounded nicely. On the next drive I saw him jump a route perfectly and very nearly come away with the pick if not for a nice play by the receiver knocking the ball away.

-At first he seemed a little reluctant to come up and get involved in stopping the run. It seemed as if he was almost avoiding the scrums and didn't want to hit D. Henry head on. But literally as I'm writing this I just watched him come up and absolutely lay out Henry off a screen and cause him to lose yardage. Even still it does seem like he avoids big hits unless it's absolutely necessary. Not always a bad thing and I'm sure he's trying to stay healthy.

-He's very vocal and active in the secondary, looks like he takes command and is always aware of what's going on. Does a good job of communicating with his teammates. A lot of what he does doesn't show up in the stats or on film Bc his coverage is so good the qb rarely looks his way.

-Just Got beat on a deep ball down feild. Coverage wasn't bad but receiver went up overtop of him. Resulted in about a 55 yard gain. Raises the question of his height. 2 plays later D. Henry scores a touchdown. Once again Hargreaves looked somewhat reluctant to come in and make a hit- he saw the play develop Infront of him and kind of just hung back.

-Hargreaves gives up another touchdown in the 4th. Once again it was pretty good coverage but the receiver goes up overtop of him.

All in all a very up and down performance from vh3 , I'm sure this wasn't his best game but it raises questions for me about how he will be able to match up against taller receivers in the nfl. Not a deal breaker though and I'm sure he will be able to improve and become a very dependable corner in the NFL. Would be thrilled if we took him but at this point I'm kinda starting to lean towards ogbah or even Ramsey.( if tunsil and bosa are out of reach) if we do grab a corner I think it would be wiser to wait until the 2nd or 3rd and grab a guy like bell or fuller. Ideally I think we might be able to trade back a few spots into the first and stack picks... grab ogbah...maybe trade back up and grab a Myles jack ...grab Boyd...and then grab bell.

Edited December 6, 2015 by January J

[PurpleCity5]

If Hargreaves is gone and we are not convinced with Ramsey, then I want Shaq Lawson. I really think he's the 2nd best edge after Bosa. I like him even more than Ogbah. 

[PurpleCity5]

Just watching the Florida / Alabama game so this is the first time I've gotten to thoroughly watch vh3 in action. Here are a few notes I took down on Hargreaves. Keep in mind this is just based on 1 game and I'm not a Scout so I don't know exactly what to look for. This is just my impression and what I took from his performance.

- Saw him blow one coverage very early on in the first quarter on the very first drive. Resulted in a 17 yard gain or so. But he rebounded nicely. On the next drive I saw him jump a route perfectly and very nearly come away with the pick if not for a nice play by the receiver knocking the ball away.

-At first he seemed a little reluctant to come up and get involved in stopping the run. It seemed as if he was almost avoiding the scrums and didn't want to hit D. Henry head on. But literally as I'm writing this I just watched him come up and absolutely lay out Henry off a screen and cause him to lose yardage. Even still it does seem like he avoids big hits unless it's absolutely necessary. Not always a bad thing and I'm sure he's trying to stay healthy.

-He's very vocal and active in the secondary, looks like he takes command and is always aware of what's going on. Does a good job of communicating with his teammates. A lot of what he does doesn't show up in the stats or on film Bc his coverage is so good the qb rarely looks his way.

-Just Got beat on a deep ball down feild. Coverage wasn't bad but receiver went up overtop of him. Resulted in about a 55 yard gain. Raises the question of his height. 2 plays later D. Henry scores a touchdown. Once again Hargreaves looked somewhat reluctant to come in and make a hit- he saw the play develop Infront of him and kind of just hung back.

-Hargreaves gives up another touchdown in the 4th. Once again it was pretty good coverage but the receiver goes up overtop of him.

All in all a very up and down performance from vh3 , I'm sure this wasn't his best game but it raises questions for me about how he will be able to match up against taller receivers in the nfl. Not a deal breaker though and I'm sure he will be able to improve and become a very dependable corner in the NFL. Would be thrilled if we took him but at this point I'm kinda starting to lean towards ogbah or even Ramsey.( if tunsil and bosa are out of reach) if we do grab a corner I think it would be wiser to wait until the 2nd or 3rd and grab a guy like bell or fuller. Ideally I think we might be able to trade back a few spots into the first and stack picks... grab ogbah...maybe trade back up and grab a Myles jack ...grab Boyd...and then grab bell.

I honestly have to say, this was not Hargreaves best game. Even though he didn't play poorly, this isn't the type of tape I would send to a team who are considering weather or not they should draft Hargreaves. 

 

First, I agree with almost everything you said, I don't thing defending the run is Hargreaves strong suit. He struggles to get off blocks unlike Ramsey who just shreds them at times. I think that's def. a concern. At times he just bursts through the line, but more often than not he's handled against the run. 

 

On that 55 Yard Reception, I think Hargreaves make a good play on it, and so did the receiver, but the throw was truly something else. I'm not trying to cover for Hargreaves, but plays like that are very rare. I don't think there is not much else he could have done without being called for an DPI. Some times it just happens to some of the best CBs. Even though they got the big gain, he still was not targeted much after the play.

 

I liked your analysis and you're right. Everyone will have their weaknesses and the one's you pointed out surely are concerns, however I don't see this game as a reason to sour on Hargreaves, not that I'm saying you are, but for anyone else who may have watched this game. 

 

The only concern I have a disagreement with is with size. I've seen Hargreaves match up against plenty of tall guys, some who are 6'5 or 6'4 and does a tremendous job, I feel that his ability to high-point the ball more than compensates for his lack of height. Also, I recommend anyone who raises these same concerns to look at his head-to-head match-ups with Laquan Treadwell from Ole' Miss, a tall and physical WR. Hargreaves locked him down in the 2013 Under-Armor game, and assisted Florida in holding him to a season low in catches and yards. 

 

I will say this, trading back is my first preference. Getting Ogbah or Lawson, then Boyd and Fuller would virtually be getting three first round picks. I'd even trade back for an extra 2nd honestly. However, it's hard to trade down in the draft, tons of teams attempt to do it and never get that opportunity, especially when you are picking in the top 10. I don't think we'll be able to trade down honestly. If we can't trade down then you grab Hargreaves IMO. I don't think Ramsey is the better coverage CB and I see more concerns with him than with Hargreaves. I'm not even convinced Ogbah is better than Hargreaves at all either, I'm not saying that you believe so but there is somewhat a belief that those two prospects are and I'm pretty certain they are not. I think Hargreaves along with Tunsil and Bosa are the power prospects in this draft. 

[January J]

I honestly have to say, this was not Hargreaves best game. Even though he didn't play poorly, this isn't the type of tape I would send to a team who are considering weather or not they should draft Hargreaves.

First, I agree with almost everything you said, I don't thing defending the run is Hargreaves strong suit. He struggles to get off blocks unlike Ramsey who just shreds them at times. I think that's def. a concern. At times he just bursts through the line, but more often than not he's handled against the run.

On that 55 Yard Reception, I think Hargreaves make a good play on it, and so did the receiver, but the throw was truly something else. I'm not trying to cover for Hargreaves, but plays like that are very rare. I don't think there is not much else he could have done without being called for an DPI. Some times it just happens to some of the best CBs. Even though they got the big gain, he still was not targeted much after the play.

I liked your analysis and you're right. Everyone will have their weaknesses and the one's you pointed out surely are concerns, however I don't see this game as a reason to sour on Hargreaves, not that I'm saying you are, but for anyone else who may have watched this game.

The only concern I have a disagreement with is with size. I've seen Hargreaves match up against plenty of tall guys, some who are 6'5 or 6'4 and does a tremendous job, I feel that his ability to high-point the ball more than compensates for his lack of height. Also, I recommend anyone who raises these same concerns to look at his head-to-head match-ups with Laquan Treadwell from Ole' Miss, a tall and physical WR. Hargreaves locked him down in the 2013 Under-Armor game, and assisted Florida in holding him to a season low in catches and yards.

I will say this, trading back is my first preference. Getting Ogbah or Lawson, then Boyd and Fuller would virtually be getting three first round picks. I'd even trade back for an extra 2nd honestly. However, it's hard to trade down in the draft, tons of teams attempt to do it and never get that opportunity, especially when you are picking in the top 10. I don't think we'll be able to trade down honestly. If we can't trade down then you grab Hargreaves IMO. I don't think Ramsey is the better coverage CB and I see more concerns with him than with Hargreaves. I'm not even convinced Ogbah is better than Hargreaves at all either, I'm not saying that you believe so but there is somewhat a belief that those two prospects are and I'm pretty certain they are not. I think Hargreaves along with Tunsil and Bosa are the power prospects in this draft.

yeah like I said this was the first time I actually watched a game of his thoroughly with the sole purpose to study his play- so I'm definitely not one to judge anyway. I would definitely like to see his full body of work before making a real assessment but these were just some of the random thoughts I had while watching. I can't lie that it did cause me to sour on him a bit though, and it further helped me realize that if we traded down and got an extra second we would probably get more bang for our buck. But like you said that may not even be a possibility. if vh3 is there I still would take him in a heartbeat if tunsil and bosa are gone. Edited December 6, 2015 by January J

[JoeyFlex5]

If Hargreaves is gone and we are not convinced with Ramsey, then I want Shaq Lawson. I really think he's the 2nd best edge after Bosa. I like him even more than Ogbah.

what specifically do you like about his game? I think he looks like a carbon copy of Upshaw, I don't see a first round Talent, I barely see an edge rusher, more like a crasher and edge setter.

[GrimCoconut]

what specifically do you like about his game? I think he looks like a carbon copy of Upshaw, I don't see a first round Talent, I barely see an edge rusher, more like a crasher and edge setter.

I've only watched two games, but I am not yet impressed and I don't see the hype. He's inconsistent off the snap and looks like he times the snap more than he's explosive. He has a killer spin-move, but I don't know how effective that will honestly be in the NFL if that's all he has. His hand-use isn't that good and he gets eliminated too much for my liking in the two games I watched. Maybe he's so slow coming off the ball because he's a big man. He looks huge out there on the field. I'm really impressed by how big he is, but he isn't nimble and he doesn't look extremely athletic on the field. I can see your opinion regarding Upshaw. 

 

I need to see more, but so far, I'm not impressed.

[PurpleCity5]

what specifically do you like about his game? I think he looks like a carbon copy of Upshaw, I don't see a first round Talent, I barely see an edge rusher, more like a crasher and edge setter.

Upshaw? I don't see that. Unlike Upshaw, Lawson has a dangerous first step. He's also quick which is something Upshaw isn't and much more athletic as a DE. He also has experience as a stand up pass rusher which is something we really need.  Not to mention Lawson is pretty athletic, he'll shock you with his speed on some plays. He reminds me of Melvin Ingram from San Diego without the injury concerns rather than Upshaw. 

Edited December 6, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[PurpleCity5]

yeah like I said this was the first time I actually watched a game of his thoroughly with the sole purpose to study his play- so I'm definitely not one to judge anyway. I would definitely like to see his full body of work before making a real assessment but these were just some of the random thoughts I had while watching. I can't lie that it did cause me to sour on him a bit though, and watching shaq Lawson further helped me realize that if we traded down and got an extra second we would probably get more bang for our buck. But like you said that may not even be a possibility. if vh3 is there I still would take him in a heartbeat if tunsil and bosa are gone.

I do prefer a trade down. It honestly got me thinking that we have a lot of holes on this roster we need to fix and we're going to be tied against the cap, might as well try to fix the holes on the roster as much as you can. If we can get an extra 2nd I would move back. If not, then I would go with Hargreaves, that's just my personal opinion. 

[GrimCoconut]

Upshaw? I don't see that. Unlike Upshaw, Lawson has a dangerous first step. He's also quick which is something Upshaw isn't and much more athletic as a DE. He also has experience as a stand up pass rusher which is something we really need.  Not to mention Lawson is pretty athletic, he'll shock you with his speed on some plays. He reminds me of Melvin Ingram from San Diego without the injury concerns rather than Upshaw. 

Really? You think he's got a dangerous first-step? I don't see that at all. I haven't watched many games (only two), but he looked slow and sluggish sometimes off the ball. Sometimes I loved his step, while others I was wondering why he was so slow for someone supposedly so good. If anything, Lawson is a better run defender than a pass rusher at this point. He sniffs the runs well, although I think his instincts are still developing at times. He has amazing effort, though. He might clean up all the effort stickers if he's drafted. Lol.

[JoeyFlex5]

Upshaw? I don't see that. Unlike Upshaw, Lawson has a dangerous first step. He's also quick which is something Upshaw isn't and much more athletic as a DE. He also has experience as a stand up pass rusher which is something we really need. Not to mention Lawson is pretty athletic, he'll shock you with his speed on some plays. He reminds me of Melvin Ingram from San Diego without the injury concerns rather than Upshaw.

yeah I just don't see that At all. The speed, quickness, first step, I don't see any of those things and I've watched probably a good half hour worth of film and I swear he looks exactly like Upshaw, he's slow and physical and looks like a natural football player but by no means does he have first round edge rush talent, I think it's 100% Clemson hype

[GrimCoconut]

yeah I just don't see that At all. The speed, quickness, first step, I don't see any of those things and I've watched probably a good half hour worth of film and I swear he looks exactly like Upshaw, he's slow and physical and looks like a natural football player but by no means does he have first round edge rush talent, I think it's 100% Clemson hype

It's funny how Calhoun has great hands and instincts, but limited athleticism and is slow off the ball, while Lawson has amazing effort but his explosiveness isn't consistent and he looks like he's just timing the snap. Then we have Ogbah, who is fast off the ball but to be honest, his use of hands isn't that good. That's a major problem I saw in his game. He's also not very good in coverage, then again, few OLB are.