[News] The Breakdown: Eisenberg's Five Thoughts vs. Jaguars

[ellicottraven]

Does anybody realize how much doodoo we'll be in if Sizzle decides to retire and SSS actually does retire? DEEP!

 

Another observation from last night's game between the Seahawks and Cardinals. The Seahawks had 65 seconds left and had to overcome 10 points (2 possession game). The hustle Wilson and his offense displayed in frantic urgency going up the field and setting up a FG and with 58 seconds still left to try to recover an onside kick was inspiring to watch. Especially in hindsight, when you map that against how we've have repeatedly shown so little heart and urgency in the 2 minute scenario! It pains me that we don't have a leader on offense that can rally his troops. That is just the truth of it regardless of how anyone tries to justify otherwise!

Edited November 16, 2015 by ellicottraven

[budman]

Justin Tucker 2 for 5 from 50yds or longer, in a contract year= not good. His leverage for highest dollars slipping. Just saying.

[Ravens Raver]

Here's a thought. Back in 2012, at the time we fired Cam Cameron, our record was 9-5. We are now 2-7. At what point do heads start to roll?

[rmcjacket23]

Discipline is not the responsibility of the DC, it's the responsibility of the position coaches. They are the ones that coach and teach proper technique, positioning, etc. Again, when you have a WR coach and a DB coach with NO prior coaching experience, you get these type of results on the field. Bobby Engram - good player, terrible WR coach. Chris Hewitt - not a good player, even worse DB coach.

I mean, yes and no...

 

Sure, I guess coaching has some impact on discipline. The problem I have though is... a lot of the penalties yesterday were largely of the personal foul variety, which generally speaking, are 100% attributable to the players and players only.

 

There isn't a coach in the league who even remotely tells Dumervil to tackle a guy by the facemask... there's only one person on the planet responsible for that, and its Dumervil.

 

There isn't a coach in the league who even remotely advises Asa Jackson to shove a guy in the back a good 10 seconds after the play is over on a ST play. There's only one person on the planet responsible for doing that, and that's Asa Jackson.

 

10 penalties yesterday, three for unnecessary roughness and one for a facemask. We could argue all day about whether other penalties are coaching/technique issues, with some certainly qualifying as that.

 

But "dumb" penalties, generally speaking, are on the players ONLY.

[rmcjacket23]

Here's a thought. Back in 2012, at the time we fired Cam Cameron, our record was 9-5. We are now 2-7. At what point do heads start to roll?

In the offseason. What exactly is gained by firing coaches now? A worse draft pick?

[ibleedpurpleandblack]

At the 2 minute mark all we needed was another first down and the game was won. Jags had no time outs and yet again our offense fails to put the game away.

[Doomville]

this team is just plain undisciplined. If we cut down our penalties by half, i believe we would have won at least half of the games that we lost. The players just don't seem to understand the nfl rules or don't care. Coaching has been terrible this season. I cannot count the amount of times jimmy smith himself has dropped easy interceptions much less the whole team. ughh, this is the last straw, im done watching the ravens games this season

[Ravens Raver]

In the offseason. What exactly is gained by firing coaches now? A worse draft pick?

Same thing that was gained then -- new thinking. What is gained by keeping unproductive coaches/players? We're already losing about as fast and bad as we can.

[fusuymada]

I don't care at this point if this is liked or not. We have a horribly coached team. When you have a bad player or two make errors then it is execution, when the whole team from superstars to peons, are making those stupid mistakes then it can't be blamed on every player. Jimmy Smith got an interception but other than that, like most of the Ravens, he was horrible. How did he go from being worth a high dollar contract to being an embarrassment. Flacco had how many turnovers? How many times have we said when he throws over 40 games he loses, so we keep throwing over 40 times a game. Kendrick Lewis should be released. Can't tackle, cant cover, cant catch. Will Hill is rated one of the best safeties in the league, why so many stupid mistakes? I can blame every player from Dumervill to Aiken but when it is every player, it isn't every player, it is horrible coaching. Quit spending so much time on slogans and speeches and lets spend some more time on practicing basics. The offensive coordinator is a horrible play caller and for someone so smart, how can he be so stupid by continuing to force Flacco to throw 50 times a game. The defensive coordinator looks to be practicing ways to pass the buck, not fix the issues, and the special teams coach has a crew of undisciplined, morons who cant get a single play off without a penalty. All around this team is in need of a coach who can build a team, not take one that someone else developed and ride them to the super bowl.

[rmcjacket23]

Same thing that was gained then -- new thinking. What is gained by keeping unproductive coaches/players? We're already losing about as fast and bad as we can.

Nothing is gained... that's the point. It would just be change just for change with no direction. We would promote somebody who we would probably fire two months later.

 

What we gained in 2012 was ultimately a mirage, since there really was no difference between Cam and Caldwell. It took less than a year for fans to demand that Caldwell get run out of town as well.

 

Besides, I highly doubt there's a coach on the staff who's going to come in and "light a spark" or change defensive philosophy to the level that is required to make this team better. That will likely come externally in the offseason.

[Wacka Flacco Flame]

The Ravens issues boil down to one thing...talent.

Aiken is not a starting WR in this league, Forsett is simply starting to look exactly like what he's looked like his entire career with exception of ONE year (last season)...a journeyman. Suggs is a top 5 pass rusher in this league & Steve Smith Sr. was arguably a top 10 WR. You don't lose BOTH of those players & still expect to win games in this league.

Look, the Ravens were due a season like this. Oz is still one of if not the best GM in the league...they'll be right next season. They'll have another strong draft which will be defense heavy & hopefully they make a real solid effort to go after Alshon Jeffery in free agency like they did a couple years ago when they acquired Anquan Boldin. "Buck" will probably be the better RB by the beginning of next season & officially become the starting RB. Also, I think its safe to say that Maxx & Crockett are gonna be a serious problem for opposing defenses a year from now.

8 playoff appearances in 9 years will spoil any fan base so the overreactions are expected buts its just gonna be a retool off-season for the Ravens...not a "Lets blow it all up & start from scratch!" off-season.

[RavensAllDay1987]

Man, one bad season and the true colors of an overrated spoiled fan base comes out. I know I will continue to be at every home game up in section 516 just like I've been since the stadium first opened.

[RavenManiac#7]

So, all of a sudden all your players decided to suck at the same time, maybe they called a meeting and decided to synchronize the suckage OR just maybe the system is broken. On a team that is lackadaisical across the board, lacks discipline, effort and accountability across the board, it is high time to take a good look at the head coach. On the play that Dumervil got flagged, the entire defense was in disarray, Jernigan did not even bother to move, but Upshaw took the cake...he turned and started walking off the field as the Jaguars snapped the ball. This is with the game on the line. That tells you all you need to know about the mindset and commitment of this team. Could any of this nonsense happen on a Belichick coached team? C'mon, there's a standard of discipline and dedication that used to be enforced around here!!It doesn't matter what players you bring into this sick environment, they'll adapt to the rot. People can neg me till eternity, but I'll be satisfied in knowing that I voiced my opinion early and often on the need to fire Harbaugh. As long as he remains here, the culture would not change. It needs to happen sooner than later. Personally, I'll start looking for a new head coach right now, but I'll let Harbaugh ride out the rest of this miserable season, then thank him for his efforts, wish him luck, and send him on his way at the end of the season.

Well, you certainly didn't get a neg from me. While I can't match your, apparently definitive, assessment of Harbaugh's total ineptness, I definitely Have begun to question whether he is the right man for our HC job. I really Do believe that he rode on the coat-tails of Ray Lewis for the SB victory during his tenure here. And I am becoming more and more convinced that his ego is a problem, he's always had time clock and game management issues, and that he has lost the players and the locker room. As much as I disrespect Belicheater for being the outright cheater that he is, there is little doubt that he is, also, a great HC, probably one of the best of all time. And the point you make about asking whether all this garbage we're seeing could exist under his watch, like it is under Harbaugh's is a very good and valid one. It most certainly would Not be tolerated. People would be gone. Players And coaches. Yeah, we've definitely had more than our share of injuries, and I think our talent is not what it needs to be, but to be honest, a Lot of our problems can be placed on the shoulders of Harbaugh. Like I said, I've had mixed feelings about him but, as this terrible season goes on, I'm leaning more and more towards the tough that he needs to go. Bisciotti, the best owner in the NFL and, possibly, all of professional sports, has too much class to speak out or make any knee-jerk reactions, but I have to wonder what is going through his head. Oh, to be a fly on the wall during the team's FO get together for the year's evaluation! I am very anxious to hear the next State of the Team's Press Conference.

[RavensAllDay1987]

All the fans who say they are done watching and supporting this team, need to stop being so spoiled and think back to when we didn't have a team for a while, The Ravens have brought us a lot to be proud about and there are 20 plus other franchises in the NFL that would love to have had the type of success the Ravens have already had. Baltimore fans are by far some of the worst there are, and trust me Ive been to about 17 away stadiums to watch and support our Ravens, and trust me those other fanbases would love to have the success the Ravens had, but go ahead and stop watching them and supporting them, maybe you can run another team out of Baltimore.

[ebonynivory]

As a die hard fan I have a lot of emotion around this loss and this season. I have tried to keep my composure and look at everything rationally (although I must say that I have waivered a few times). Look, we have had a ton of injuries and a LOT of misfortune this season. It probably hurts more as well being an anniversary season too. So there is some explanation for the woes this team has had, and let's face it, this team is still trying to find it's identity since Ray and Ed left.

What I do not accept is the fact that these professional athletes that are paid millions to play a game that us fans would play for free if we have a morsel of their football gifts. Watching this group of guys is, for a lack of a better word, a joke. They don't have that passion, and a leader? Well Flacco isn't made of that cloth and until you can show a body of work on defence to prove you can lead, no one is going to listen. Yet I watch everyday these guys and coaches talk about positive thinking and determination. I've told myself to stop watching this because I can't stomach the cliches and saying all the "right things" And then they go out there and put out efforts like this. What made the teams of the past was drive and smarts. Ray was a beast out there for sure, but he was also the smartest player on the field.

The Ravens have had a lot of success over the years and we aren't used to this type of season so maybe I just have no idea how to respond. I will find a Detroit fan and ask them, but we need to face reality and own up to the fact that we don't have the talent and Harbs has no more Ray Lewis for the troops to play for.

Looking forward to a successful draft pick. Go Ravens!!

[RavensAllDay1987]

RavenManiac#7

A minute ago

So, all of a sudden all your players decided to suck at the same time, maybe they called a meeting and decided to synchronize the suckage OR just maybe the system is broken. On a team that is lackadaisical across the board, lacks discipline, effort and accountability across the board, it is high time to take a good look at the head coach. On the play that Dumervil got flagged, the entire defense was in disarray, Jernigan did not even bother to move, but Upshaw took the cake...he turned and started walking off the field as the Jaguars snapped the ball. This is with the game on the line. That tells you all you need to know about the mindset and commitment of this team. Could any of this nonsense happen on a Belichick coached team? C'mon, there's a standard of discipline and dedication that used to be enforced around here!!It doesn't matter what players you bring into this sick environment, they'll adapt to the rot. People can neg me till eternity, but I'll be satisfied in knowing that I voiced my opinion early and often on the need to fire Harbaugh. As long as he remains here, the culture would not change. It needs to happen sooner than later. Personally, I'll start looking for a new head coach right now, but I'll let Harbaugh ride out the rest of this miserable season, then thank him for his efforts, wish him luck, and send him on his way at the end of the season.

Well, you certainly didn't get a neg from me. While I can't match your, apparently definitive, assessment of Harbaugh's total ineptness, I definitely Have begun to question whether he is the right man for our HC job. I really Do believe that he rode on the coat-tails of Ray Lewis for the SB victory during his tenure here. And I am becoming more and more convinced that his ego is a problem, he's always had time clock and game management issues, and that he has lost the players and the locker room. As much as I disrespect Belicheater for being the outright cheater that he is, there is little doubt that he is, also, a great HC, probably one of the best of all time. And the point you make about asking whether all this garbage we're seeing could exist under his watch, like it is under Harbaugh's is a very good and valid one. It most certainly would Not be tolerated. People would be gone. Players And coaches. Yeah, we've definitely had more than our share of injuries, and I think our talent is not what it needs to be, but to be honest, a Lot of our problems can be placed on the shoulders of Harbaugh. Like I said, I've had mixed feelings about him but, as this terrible season goes on, I'm leaning more and more towards the tough that he needs to go. Bisciotti, the best owner in the NFL and, possibly, all of professional sports, has too much class to speak out or make any knee-jerk reactions, but I have to wonder what is going through his head. Oh, to be a fly on the wall during the team's FO get together for the year's evaluation! I am very anxious to hear the next State of the Team's Press Conference.

--

What about last season with all the injuries and distractions this team had to deal with, who's coat tail did Harbs ride then to take a team that had no business going up to NE and taking them to the wire in the playoffs? Maybe the problem is we have alot of guys who are fringe roster/ practice squad players who shouldn't be playing at all, but due to injuries and a serious salary cap issues they are currently dealing with, we just did not have the means to augment the roster properly and account for all that has happened this year and last.

[RavenManiac#7]

I mean, yes and no...

 

Sure, I guess coaching has some impact on discipline. The problem I have though is... a lot of the penalties yesterday were largely of the personal foul variety, which generally speaking, are 100% attributable to the players and players only.

 

There isn't a coach in the league who even remotely tells Dumervil to tackle a guy by the facemask... there's only one person on the planet responsible for that, and its Dumervil.

 

There isn't a coach in the league who even remotely advises Asa Jackson to shove a guy in the back a good 10 seconds after the play is over on a ST play. There's only one person on the planet responsible for doing that, and that's Asa Jackson.

 

10 penalties yesterday, three for unnecessary roughness and one for a facemask. We could argue all day about whether other penalties are coaching/technique issues, with some certainly qualifying as that.

 

But "dumb" penalties, generally speaking, are on the players ONLY.

I'm not so sure about that, jacket. While I certainly Do agree that the players, themselves, are partially responsible, but Solely responsible, I'm not so sure. If these players know, in the back of their minds, that there will be no repercussions from the HC, other than a "Hey! Don't do that!", it makes it much easier for them to play with little, to no, self control. If they knew they were facing fines or bench time, it just Might be a different story. Hey, just thinking.

[EddiOK]

Yet another single-digit, last-minute, D-can't-hold-a-lead loss. This is getting old and painful. We better get some seriously good drafts picks out of this mess of a season. We need it.

[rmcjacket23]

I'm not so sure about that, jacket. While I certainly Do agree that the players, themselves, are partially responsible, but Solely responsible, I'm not so sure. If these players know, in the back of their minds, that there will be no repercussions from the HC, other than a "Hey! Don't do that!", it makes it much easier for them to play with little, to no, self control. If they knew they were facing fines or bench time, it just Might be a different story. Hey, just thinking.

Well, they do get fined. Dumervil will get fined.

 

Bench time is a possibility for some players (hello Asa), but benching a player who you largely depend on to keep your team competitive isn't always the best idea. 

 

Take a second and think about how much worse our defense will be (and yes, it will be A LOT worse) if we bench Dumervil. 

[RavenManiac#7]

RavenManiac#7 A minute ago So, all of a sudden all your players decided to suck at the same time, maybe they called a meeting and decided to synchronize the suckage OR just maybe the system is broken. On a team that is lackadaisical across the board, lacks discipline, effort and accountability across the board, it is high time to take a good look at the head coach. On the play that Dumervil got flagged, the entire defense was in disarray, Jernigan did not even bother to move, but Upshaw took the cake...he turned and started walking off the field as the Jaguars snapped the ball. This is with the game on the line. That tells you all you need to know about the mindset and commitment of this team. Could any of this nonsense happen on a Belichick coached team? C'mon, there's a standard of discipline and dedication that used to be enforced around here!!It doesn't matter what players you bring into this sick environment, they'll adapt to the rot. People can neg me till eternity, but I'll be satisfied in knowing that I voiced my opinion early and often on the need to fire Harbaugh. As long as he remains here, the culture would not change. It needs to happen sooner than later. Personally, I'll start looking for a new head coach right now, but I'll let Harbaugh ride out the rest of this miserable season, then thank him for his efforts, wish him luck, and send him on his way at the end of the season. Well, you certainly didn't get a neg from me. While I can't match your, apparently definitive, assessment of Harbaugh's total ineptness, I definitely Have begun to question whether he is the right man for our HC job. I really Do believe that he rode on the coat-tails of Ray Lewis for the SB victory during his tenure here. And I am becoming more and more convinced that his ego is a problem, he's always had time clock and game management issues, and that he has lost the players and the locker room. As much as I disrespect Belicheater for being the outright cheater that he is, there is little doubt that he is, also, a great HC, probably one of the best of all time. And the point you make about asking whether all this garbage we're seeing could exist under his watch, like it is under Harbaugh's is a very good and valid one. It most certainly would Not be tolerated. People would be gone. Players And coaches. Yeah, we've definitely had more than our share of injuries, and I think our talent is not what it needs to be, but to be honest, a Lot of our problems can be placed on the shoulders of Harbaugh. Like I said, I've had mixed feelings about him but, as this terrible season goes on, I'm leaning more and more towards the tough that he needs to go. Bisciotti, the best owner in the NFL and, possibly, all of professional sports, has too much class to speak out or make any knee-jerk reactions, but I have to wonder what is going through his head. Oh, to be a fly on the wall during the team's FO get together for the year's evaluation! I am very anxious to hear the next State of the Team's Press Conference. -- What about last season with all the injuries and distractions this team had to deal with, who's coat tail did Harbs ride then to take a team that had no business going up to NE and taking them to the wire in the playoffs? Maybe the problem is we have alot of guys who are fringe roster/ practice squad players who shouldn't be playing at all, but due to injuries and a serious salary cap issues they are currently dealing with, we just did not have the means to augment the roster properly and account for all that has happened this year and last.

First of all, you're quoting Two different people's posts here. Everything you say here were Not my words. Some were, yes, but some were not, and you make No distinction on which were and which were not. And secondly, didn't we go 8 - 8 last year, and miss the playoffs altogether? Either I'm having a senior moment, or I may have entered a time warp.

[rmcjacket23]

First of all, you're quoting Two different people's posts here. Everything you say here were Not my words. Some were, yes, but some were not, and you make No distinction on which were and which were not. And secondly, didn't we go 8 - 8 last year, and miss the playoffs altogether? Either I'm having a senior moment, or I may have entered a time warp.

That was 2013. 2014 we made the playoffs, beat the Steelers, lost to the Pats.

[RavenManiac#7]

Well, they do get fined. Dumervil will get fined.

 

Bench time is a possibility for some players (hello Asa), but benching a player who you largely depend on to keep your team competitive isn't always the best idea. 

 

Take a second and think about how much worse our defense will be (and yes, it will be A LOT worse) if we bench Dumervil. 

Yeah, jacket, you're probably right that Dumervil will get fined, but won't that be by the league, not Harbaugh? And you make a Very good, and valid, point about benching him. I most Certainly would agree with you that benching should be on an individual basis. Like you say (hello Asa), but I am not advocating that Harbs bench Doom long, just a series or two, max, to send a team-wide message that this stuff has to stop. And if someone wants to argue fairness, hey, Asa and every other player can improve their overall play to deserve the "short-term benching" privilege that Doom would have because of him earning it by making himself so valuable to our team. Jacket, maybe I'm just getting So frustrated with these dumb penalties that I Am coming up with the wrong ideas. But, it just seems like Something has to happen to try to lessen them. I've Always respected your posts, so, I'll admit, you have me second guessing my thoughts on this one.

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah, jacket, you're probably right that Dumervil will get fined, but won't that be by the league, not Harbaugh? And you make a Very good, and valid, point about benching him. I most Certainly would agree with you that benching should be on an individual basis. Like you say (hello Asa), but I am not advocating that Harbs bench Doom long, just a series or two, max, to send a team-wide message that this stuff has to stop. And if someone wants to argue fairness, hey, Asa and every other player can improve their overall play to deserve the "short-term benching" privilege that Doom would have because of him earning it by making himself so valuable to our team. Jacket, maybe I'm just getting So frustrated with these dumb penalties that I Am coming up with the wrong ideas. But, it just seems like Something has to happen to try to lessen them. I've Always respected your posts, so, I'll admit, you have me second guessing my thoughts on this one.

I don't know if he will be fined by the team or not. I assume the team fines players all the time and nobody ever hears about it, but that might not be the case.

[riseNConquer81]

To the people wanting Top 5 draft picks, please elaborate on what good would that do. I truly believe this team is not short on talent.

then you are truly delusional.

and top 5 draft picks dramatically improve our chances of finding a real playmaker that can change a game or two once in a while.

a top 5 draft pick is the difference between Kamar Aiken and Julio Jones. is it really that hard to figure out?

[roamingcharges]

Mr. Bisciotti you'll be firing some coaches this offseason if you want to get back to winning because Harbaugh won't do it without a kick in the rear end. Harbaugh has this stupid loyalty thing to his friends that are on his coaching staff but that is just wrong-- your loyalty should lie with the person that pays you not the people that you bring in to get paid by your employer. Dean Pees is the second coming of Greg Mattison... oh brother!

[ellicottraven]

Just as important as having more talented players on our team and better coaches is this:

Ban Peter King from training camp in the future. Tape his mouth shut if ever asked for an opinion on the Ravens. Get a restraining order to prevent him from commenting on how good or bad the Ravens are.

[757RavensFan]

 

 

And while we’re at it, they also didn’t blow the personal foul on Will Hill III that got fans riled up late in the game. Hill bashed a defenseless receiver in the head/neck area and sent him into the concussion protocol. 

 

Like you Eisenberg, I have no issue with the call on Will Hill. However, I do have an issue w/ the no call for the exact same hit on Kamar Aiken.  That should have been a hit on a defenseless player as well.  The biggest problem with the refs this year is lack of consistency.  

Edited November 16, 2015 by 757RavensFan

[smalljaws]

Snake bit is this years theme.

[Purple Dawg 96]

My five thoughts are "let Matt start" and watch Marlon have a career day! If Joe didn't throw that very very very bad pass against the pats throwing away a Super Bowl all this wouldn't hurt so much! Whom do yall want to blame now?! Joe us killing us!

[rmcjacket23]

My five thoughts are "let Matt start" and watch Marlon have a career day! If Joe didn't throw that very very very bad pass against the pats throwing away a Super Bowl all this wouldn't hurt so much! Whom do yall want to blame now?! Joe us killing us!

And simultaneously carrying us...

 

Troll on.