Vent thread week 10: Jaguars

[redrum52]

that also, but not tracking back annoys me. They seem to forget defenders are there to make plays and hustle

It happens far too often.  A lot of picks would be avoided if they even made a play to come back for it.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Have the Patriots ever really had any loud in your face type guys? Honestly asking.

I know Brady can get fired up on the field but he doesn't strike me as a Ray Lewis type of motivator.

And doesn't really seem like anyone challenges Belichick or speaks above the team. Just very business like in their approach. Even Gronk who is known to be wild, you rarely hear of him acting like that at practice or during games. Usually just the offseason.

And the NY Giants? Can't really think of anyone other than maybe Strahan during the 1st of the most recent 2.

Green Bays SB team. The Saints. No one on those teams is really sticking out to me as the loud, passionate leader. Mainly led by quiet, business like, great QBs.

Peyton's SB team in Indy too. The greatest show on turf Rams teams.

Just spit balling here, but these teams didn't have the Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Richard Sherman, BP, Terrell Suggs, Kam Chancellor, Deion Sanders, Hines Ward type guys that I think you're describing.

But maybe I'm being too specific.

Good question -

The answer for every championship team that you've named is 'yes'. They all had 'Vocal Leaders' who challenged excellence from their teammates on the field and off (including the Patriots, Packers and Rams). By vocal that doesn't necessarily mean 'loud' and rarely means getting loud. Most of the time it's going the extra yard to personally mentor a teammate individually or in units when it's required. Even Ray had bible study at his home with his teammates. Vocal Leaders: Championships don't ever happen without them and every championship coach will testify to that point when being honest. 

 

P.S. - IMO None of the players you named above I find to be 'loud' in a football culture. They're just champions.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

That type of leadership isn't easy to find at all. I honestly think Steve Smith and Terrell Suggs do a good job as leaders and bring a spark to the team as leaders but other than that there really hasn't been any players either in free agency or the draft that I can think of that were  passionate leaders.

 

Ed Reed and Ray Lewis retirement was bound to leave  a void of leadership in some way and the same can be said about The Steelers after they lost some key players as well due to retirement and etc.  The Ravens probably will never have leadership like they did back in 2012 ever again and it's nothing really wrong with that because it doesn't equal to winning games all the time. The Idea some Ravens fans believe Harbaugh wants to avoid such leadership doesn't make sense at all because it actually makes the coaches job alot more easier when he has guys that can help keep the team motivated....Ozzie trying to replace Ed Reed and Ray Lewis as leadership wise isn't a easy task at all and i'm sorry it may not ever happen.

Ageed. Finding and/or cultivating leadership is never easy, but neccessary. I don't think it's sometime you look for. I think it's an organic thing that just happens and every form of it is unique. That said, inorder for it to happen the enviroment must be right for it. Once, potential leaders were released after our last SB and the rebuild began, statements like, "I enjoy the quiet practices and lockerroom..." (supported by the organization) can only discourage potential vocal leaders to emerge.

 

It was a cultural shift that I feel at the time seemed experiental at best and/or a lack of a 'true' appreciation for what that kind of leadership brings. I'm not sure, but the results since show a lack of collective discipline, execution, focus, passion and purpose.

 

Vocal, passionate leadership - Maybe it's needed and should be encouraged.

[1/28/01]

First one had relatively nothing to do with him... slightly high but very catchable pass thrown to Aiken that bounced off his hands and was juggled right to the defender.

Second one was a poorly, under-thrown ball.

First one had more than "relatively nothing to do" with Flacco. Was a pretty high ball for such a short pass. I will agree it needed to be caught, but it also needed to be thrown better.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

First one had more than "relatively nothing to do" with Flacco. Was a pretty high ball for such a short pass. I will agree it needed to be caught, but it also needed to be thrown better.

 

Both passes could have been thrown better but the first pic went right thru Aikens' hands. The rule of thumb is that if you can get your hands on a pass you should catch it. Kamar heard footsteps and gave up on the ball. It was zipped to him though. What we need is someone who is not afraid to run a crossing pattern for fear of being hit. That's what separates the sheep from the goats. 

[jazz1988]

Ageed. Finding and/or cultivating leadership is never easy, but neccessary. I don't think it's sometime you look for. I think it's an organic thing that just happens and every form of it is unique. That said, inorder for it to happen the enviroment must be right for it. Once, potential leaders were released after our last SB and the rebuild began, statements like, "I enjoy the quiet practices and lockerroom..." (supported by the organization) can only discourage potential vocal leaders to emerge.

 

It was a cultural shift that I feel at the time seemed experiental at best and/or a lack of a 'true' appreciation for what that kind of leadership brings. I'm not sure, but the results since show a lack of collective discipline, execution, focus, passion and purpose.

 

Vocal, passionate leadership - Maybe it's needed and should be encouraged.

 

Who are these potential leaders you speak of ? I don't consider Pollard a leader   and Boldin had leadership qualities but was talking about retirement and wouldn't accept a pay cut. Everybody else that was cut were in their thirties  and younger guys could replace them.

 

Neither Suggs and Smith Sr strike me as quiet players and both of them are leaders of the team. I don't believe Harbaugh at all doesn't like for the team to have  vocal passionate leadership  . I never saw/heard comments in reference to  The Ravens organization saying they like a quiet locker room.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Ageed. Finding and/or cultivating leadership is never easy, but neccessary. I don't think it's sometime you look for. I think it's an organic thing that just happens and every form of it is unique. That said, inorder for it to happen the enviroment must be right for it. Once, potential leaders were released after our last SB and the rebuild began, statements like, "I enjoy the quiet practices and lockerroom..." (supported by the organization) can only discourage potential vocal leaders to emerge.

It was a cultural shift that I feel at the time seemed experiental at best and/or a lack of a 'true' appreciation for what that kind of leadership brings. I'm not sure, but the results since show a lack of collective discipline, execution, focus, passion and purpose.

Vocal, passionate leadership - Maybe it's needed and should be encouraged.

I agree to an extent.

But I also think too much or too many of those voices can be a bad thing.

Where I don't necessarily agree is that we don't have that type of player. I think Suggs, definitely Steve Smith, Joe in his own way, and Yanda are that type of player. Unfortunately, the 2 that really grab that leadership role by the reigns are out for the year.

I also think we have young guys that are naturally that type of guy but are waiting for their time. Brandon Williams strikes me as a vocal leader and a guy that mentors the younger guys in that position group.

Webb is that kind of guy but just isn't effective. Will Hill I think will become that type of leader if he sticks around long enough. CJ Mosely seems like a vocal leader who also leads by example and with his work rate. But I think he chooses to take the back seat out of respect to Daryl Smith, Sizzle, and Doom - and doesn't want to overstep as just a second year guy.

So, I don't think thats the missing ingredient. IMO we already have them (though some are IRed) and also have the next generation waiting in the wings.

The main issues beside injuries are a lack of talent at a few key positions (FS, OLB bc of injuries, and WR bc of injuries), the age/experience of a majority of our core players, and the consistent turnover of both the roster and coaching.

I think time is all this team needs. Time for injuries to heal. Time for the new offense to click and for young players that we're counting on to develop a little bit. And time to get to the draft and FA to fill a few holes.

[BmoreBird22]

that also, but not tracking back annoys me. They seem to forget defenders are there to make plays and hustle

It was one of my biggest pet peeves with Jacoby

[DomMcRaven]

Who are these potential leaders you speak of ? I don't consider Pollard a leader   and Boldin had leadership qualities but was talking about retirement and wouldn't accept a pay cut. Everybody else that was cut were in their thirties  and younger guys could replace them.

 

Neither Suggs and Smith Sr strike me as quiet players and both of them are leaders of the team. I don't believe Harbaugh at all doesn't like for the team to have  vocal passionate leadership  . I never saw/heard comments in reference to  The Ravens organization saying they like a quiet locker room.

And despite our record, we've been fighting in every game. Take the Cardinals game for example when we were down 26-10. The players could have easily folded, but they continued to fight and eventually slimmed the lead to 26-18 until the end. One thing is apparent about the season.

 

Despite the numerous flaws with this team, they will continue to fight for Harbaugh and I respect the hell out of that. 

[TSizzle00]

And despite our record, we've been fighting in every game. Take the Cardinals game for example when we were down 26-10. The players could have easily folded, but they continued to fight and eventually slimmed the lead to 26-18 until the end. One thing is apparent about the season.

 

Despite the numerous flaws with this team, they will continue to fight for Harbaugh and I respect the hell out of that. 

 

They certainly have not thrown in the towel in any game this season. All the 3-4 point losses are brutal. You almost want a blowout just to avoid the heartache lol.

[DomMcRaven]

They certainly have not thrown in the towel in any game this season. All the 3-4 point losses are brutal. You almost want a blowout just to avoid the heartache lol.

Exactly! It's so much easier to get over a blowout compared to a close loss.

[rmcjacket23]

First one had more than "relatively nothing to do" with Flacco. Was a pretty high ball for such a short pass. I will agree it needed to be caught, but it also needed to be thrown better.

99% of all passes from QBs need to be thrown better. This isn't a game of darts. Put the ball in a spot where the receiver can catch it safely. He did that.

[callahan09]

99% of all passes from QBs need to be thrown better. This isn't a game of darts. Put the ball in a spot where the receiver can catch it safely. He did that.

I think that when a ball has to bounce off both your receivers hands, and then that receiver bats it away while trying to make a second effort at catching it, then it bounces off of one defensive player and into another, who bobbles it before he can complete the catch... just for the ball to become an interception... then I see very little blame to go around to the QB.  It's a fluke.  That throw is rarely intercepted in the NFL unless you get a "the ball didn't bounce my way" (numerous times on the same play) type of fluke, like what happened.

[ellicottraven]

Vent? What's the point? We lost to the 3 worst teams in the NFL and 2 of them at home. We stink plain and simple. Joe hasn't played like a good QB this year and his receivers short of SSS have all disappointed. Defense has been too up and down mostly down. Special teams has been very good overall but coaching has been sub-standard but that hasn't stopped the bluster and big talk from both coaches and players even though they sit at 2-7 now. It has reduced after the Jags loss, and hopefully they all focus on putting in a good performance the rest of the year. I think they end up 6-10 at best and 3-13 at worst.

[TSizzle00]

Exactly! It's so much easier to get over a blowout compared to a close loss.

 

Although getting blown out is an indicate of how much worse your team really is. This Ravens team might be 3-4 players away from good. A team getting blown out might need an entire overhaul.

[DomMcRaven]

Although getting blown out is an indicate of how much worse your team really is. This Ravens team might be 3-4 players away from good. A team getting blown out might need an entire overhaul.

Oh indeed. I was just talking about if we were to lose a game, I'd be able to handle a blowout more than a close loss. It'd be a lot easier to get over. 

 

I also believe we are a few players away from being legit. We have a slew of young talent, but we just need more depth. Now that teams can trade comp picks, things will be very interesting during the offseason. 

[Militant X 1]

Oh indeed. I was just talking about if we were to lose a game, I'd be able to handle a blowout more than a close loss. It'd be a lot easier to get over. 

 

I also believe we are a few players away from being legit. We have a slew of young talent, but we just need more depth. Now that teams can trade comp picks, things will be very interesting during the offseason. 

 

I hate both to be honest!

 

A blow out to me means that we absolutely suck to high heavens and the close losses means that we didn't play well enough throughout the course of the game to win it!  Oftentimes, they are due to self-inflicting wounds as well.

[Cillmatic]

I hate both to be honest!

A blow out to me means that we absolutely suck to high heavens and the close losses means that we didn't play well enough throughout the course of the game to win it! Oftentimes, they are due to self-inflicting wounds as well.

We already know we "suck to high heavens" though. Rather have that immediately reaffirmed than get my hopes up for hours until the eventual let down.

[DomMcRaven]

I hate both to be honest!

 

A blow out to me means that we absolutely suck to high heavens and the close losses means that we didn't play well enough throughout the course of the game to win it!  Oftentimes, they are due to self-inflicting wounds as well.

We already know we "suck to high heavens" though. Rather have that immediately reaffirmed than get my hopes up for hours until the eventual let down.

I don't think anyone excepts proponents of tanking likes​ losing. Cillmatic said it best. I don't think anyone wants to have that false hope, only to be let down time after time.  

[jdynamite]

I'm with ya in that it's ridiculous to want Schaub in and bash Flacco. But he did make his fair share of mistakes and is partially responsible for the loss. 3 turnovers in a row, 2 of which were 100% his fault and the 3rd was partially his fault too.

So to knock Aiken who played pretty well other than a cpl mistakes is just as unfair. He made some great plays and did well for a guy who has no business being a starter let alone the #1 target. blaming Aiken for Flacco's mistakes is just as ridiculous imo as calling for Schaub.

Flacco did turn the ball over 3 times in a row. Chances are without them the game isn't even close at the end. 2 were 100% his fault so blaming the receivers is ridiculous. And he's had several bad interceptions throughout the season.

So if you're going to defend Joe in light of his inconsistent play, it's unfair to throw a guy like Aiken under the bus who's being asked to do far more than he should be and is performing pretty well considering the circumstances.

I had to go back and read what I wrote after reading your response. Sorry I'm not one of those Joe Flacco apologist that defends him on here constantly. I'm usually extremely critical of Flacco actually even in game-threads. ( Joe isn't my golden boy, like he is for some on here ). I'm constantly talking about him throwing off his back foot, feeling pressure before it's actually there and rushing passes, and I give him credit when he makes an accurate pass for a first down or TD.

I think you read into the Aiken comment a little too much as it pertained to that particular game ( The Jaguars game ). I wasn't blaming him for a loss or turnovers in that game. I'm simply stating the obvious and that's we truly lack WR talent to the point that Aiken or Brown were seriously our go to options heading into the season outside of S.Smith because if Breshad were healthy he would have shared snaps with them until he could take a majority snaps. If anything my statement highlights how abysmal the rest of the WRs are in comparison to Aiken if flacco chooses to force it to him more.

I've always voiced my opinion on the Aiken is Boldin 2.0 & the Marlontron nicknames lol.