[News] Eisenberg: Dubious Progress Made On Domestic Violence In NFL

[Ravens_Flock]

I still think it's a damn shame that a dog killer is still active for the Pittsburgh Steelers right now, and a man who (while sober, I'm sure), beat the hell out of his own child, is back playing for the Minnesota Vikings. Yet Ray Rice, a GOOD man by all accounts, had one nightmare scenario unfold in a moment of MUTAL drunken stupidity on the part of he and his wife, in which neither of them were blameless....and he isn't even playing in the NFL anymore. The back who led the NFL in total yards from scrimmage from 2009-2012, didn't even get worked out by a single team, to my knowledge.

And why? Because there was no video of Peterson beating his kid, that's why. If there had been no video of Rice's incident, he would still be a Baltimore Raven right now. And no offense to Justin Forsett, but that would be a major improvement. Of course I'm not getting into the semantics of why and how the Ravens cut Rice. I'm only stating the facts, that other players who have done worse than he did, are still playing in the NFL, while Ray Rice, who outside of one ugly moment in his life, has been nothing but a great person and a great player, is watching the NFL from his couch, while he's still in his prime. It's just sad, and shows how hypocritical the NFL, the Ravens, and even the fans really can be.

[20306cab]

The Ravens keep saying, they are all supporting Rice. But I can't believe that nationally media hyped "jersey exchange party" really helped him much.

[Halshayeji]

It's never good to punch your wife/girlfriend. There is never a time it's "ok" or to say in this case it made sense. She's half his weight and was no threat to him, he could have grabbed her and restrained her...instead he punched her out cold. So...it's not good. But compared to Hardy, it's not the same level of domestic violence...but still violence.

They're both wrong. One is domestic violence and the other is abuse. Big difference but both undeniably wrong

[Guest]

Recently, I've read the story about how Mickey Rooney's wife allegedly smacked him around, especially in his old age. Whether it's true or not is hard to say. The point being women can get aggressive themselves, initiate and escalate things to the point of blows. Striking first and striking aggressively. What's a man to do? Cop a "Mickey Rooney" and accept being battered with a frying pan? And that is why many of these so called "Domestic Violence" cases are dropped by the female involved. It is because they know they were a party to what happened and not an innocent bystander.

 

As far as the woman in the Greg Hardy case, the pictures of the so called brutal battery aren't much to see. She said it was battery I guess, but that kind of contusion wouldn't have to have been from a blow. Who has ever found a bruise on their side and wondered how did that happen? Bruises don't have to be from strikes.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Danny D

[DrinkmoreBeer]

The obvious difference between the Rice and Hardy cases comes down to this question -- can the player, no matter what he did, still help a marquee team win? If he can, like Hardy, he plays. If he can't, like Rice, he's unemployed. Right and wrong does not enter the equation.

[BigUgly]

The one good thing to come of the Ray Rice situation is that it literally put a face on domestic violence. Prior to that, domestic violence charges were handled very lightly (or not at all) by the NFL. Now, Ray's video should be at the forefront of everyone's mind when charges are levied. Hardy would argue that he already served his league punishment for his behavior. He may be right. It may be that the 4 game suspension he was given is perceived to be insufficient. Certainly Rice's initial 2 game punishment was. The difference between Rice and Hardy is that Ray is, by all other accounts (including that of his wife and teammates) a standup guy who has show contrition and remorse, and yet he has not been given even the opportunity to try to play again. Rice may be perceived to be the bigger PR headache, but I guarantee that he would be a far better teammate and liability risk to take than Hardy. Enjoy, Jerruh!

[Guest]

The obvious difference between the Rice and Hardy cases comes down to this question -- can the player, no matter what he did, still help a marquee team win? If he can, like Hardy, he plays. If he can't, like Rice, he's unemployed. Right and wrong does not enter the equation.

 

Ray Rice was coming off a bad year.  It wasn't bad solely because of him. Every back that ran behind that horrid line was held to a 3 yard average.  Ray Rice could help a team, but what further restricted his ability to return was how greatly the Running Back position has been devalued in the modern NFL. 

 

Ray threw a haymaker at a woman that wasn't striking him and it was caught on film.  She didn't prosecute and there was probably some inebriated choice words flying between them, but in the end, Ray was the clear violator. 

 

If his wife has given him a second chance, I would too, but it looks like he's not going to receive a second NFL chance and I don't believe it has much to do with his ability or lack thereof, because he can't even get a try out to demonstrate 2013 was an anomaly.

[Ravenshine]

They're both wrong. One is domestic violence and the other is abuse. Big difference but both undeniably wrong

I agree they are both wrong...but men beating women far outweighs the reality of what occurs. Rarely are men actually beat up by women, it's really not the epidemic to be dealt with. Women just cannot inflict much damage, and many women are abused not because they provoked the men, but rather because the man chose to exercise a level of control of the circumstances (if one looks into many DV cases legally this will be evident too). The consequences are beatings, broken bones, internal damage...death. DV needs to be addressed as it's still very prevalent. In the NFL we hear about it time and time again. There's also been child abuse situations (Peterson). Should we be questioning what Hardys girlfriend did to provoke Hardy? To me that's addressing the matter from the wrong direction. Men need to know there is never a good reason to beat a women (or child), no matter what her actions, verbal comments etc...there is never a reason to blame her for her ending up physically abused by someone twice or more her strength.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Ravenshine

[Ravenshine]

you can keep telling yourself that if you'd like, but the way you're beating a very dead horse says otherwise. Ray Rice very obviously isnt the wolf in sheep's clothing you keep trying to make him out to be, and anyone with eyes can see that. relevant.just wanted to tl;dr this for you, in case you missed it earlier.browbeating people is easy.Try humanism if you're ready for a new challenge.

All due respect Rise, show me where I'm making Ray out to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Read my posts and provide evidence of any inappropriate comments I made about Ray Rice. Otherwise, this is simply your interpretation because you don't like my comments. I wish Ray the best. But it was his actions that caused him to come under scrutiny. Are other players like Hardy getting off easy by comparison? I think so yes, I'm not here trying to destroy RR legacy, or pardon others actions like Hardy. I'm saying DV is wrong, regardless.

[baru643]

Ray Rice was coming off a bad year.  It wasn't bad solely because of him. Every back that ran behind that horrid line was held to a 3 yard average.  Ray Rice could help a team, but what further restricted his ability to return was how greatly the Running Back position has been devalued in the modern NFL. 

 

Ray threw a haymaker at a woman that wasn't striking him and it was caught on film.  She didn't prosecute and there was probably some inebriated choice words flying between them, but in the end, Ray was the clear violator. 

 

If his wife has given him a second chance, I would too, but it looks like he's not going to receive a second NFL chance and I don't believe it has much to do with his ability or lack thereof, because he can't even get a try out to demonstrate 2013 was an anomaly.

I totally agree with you, if Ray's wife was able to forgive him and give him a 2nd chance then the NFL should as well.  I think Ray made a horrific mistake in punching out his then finance and should have never laid a hand on her, but he shouldn't be black balled by the league just because there was a video of the incident.  I wonder how many of the hypocritical NFL owners and GM's would have kept AP and Hardy is there was video evidence of their discretions? 

 

I love watching the games and playing in several fantasy leagues, but I too think it’s deplorable that the NFL dresses players in pink thinking that is enough to show support for domestic violence victims.  On another note, it is also pretty sad that the NFL is clamming its honoring veterans but they are not footing the bill for all the displays and camo gear being worn on the sidelines, the DOD is!

[Wacka Flacco Flame]

If Rice was signed by the Giants, Redskins, Texans, 49ers, Titans or Browns today...he'd be the best healthy RB on the team.

Rice was the guinea pig in this domestic violence cloud that finally caught the NFL's attention & being obviously black balled is the punishment.

[Ravenshine]

The topic is domestic violence, and more specifically how it's presenting in the NFL...how players are role models and the message being sent that as long as $$$ is involved, you can play in NFL and be a person who abuses women and children. That's what this article is addressing, and it's a big problem within and outside of the NFL.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Moderator 3
Quoted post removed

[validjim]

Not only Hardy, but what about Adrian Peterson still playing id right? Certainly violence against children is worse than what Rice or Hardy did. AP should have been permanently blackballed by the NFL. And compare these cases to Pete Rose.

[salamander]

In the news today, Hardy has the audacity to tweet out that he is innocent til proven guilty, despite everyone on the planet knowing he is guilty of domestic violence. To add insult to injury, Hardy also played the race card to explain why he is being singled out. What a dirtbag.

[cushrinada1986]

This is what happens when you allow greed to ruin a sport. Trust me, if greg hardy was a washed up talent or middle of the road player with less value, he would be black balled from the league, kinda how Rice is getting black balled right now. It sickens me how players with talent and a name(Brady) can manage to get away with anything in this league. Lets not forget that Donte Stallworth killed a person, KILLED a person while drunk driving, and still managed to play again the next season. Mean while a regular joe like you and me would be in bars or death row. How does that make sense? It makes sense because we allow it. Adrian Peterson is playing right now not because he is innocent of what he did but because people need him on their fantasy rosters and the NFL and fantasy football makes tons of money off these people(Remember how Brady got off easy this year after destroying his phone only to find out that the judge that decided the case had brady on his fantasy team, talk about conflict of interest). Its the same in celeb life. Caitlin Jenner should be in bars right now for vehicular manslaughter but in america, if you have the cash and the fame, you can get out of anything............anything. What a great message to send to the kids who look up to these people. I myself would like to see a petition stating that the NFL no longer run female/children themed events until they clean up their image on how their players treat women and children. Beyond that, the NFL and associated organizations should not longer allow players with a past of domestic violence and excessive drug use host or become analyst of their shows as well. I am even open to the idea that players with an extreme history of the sorts be taken out of the HOF as well. Why should you have a bust in Canton of a man who beat women and took drugs, no way should someone like that taint the halls of Canton, ever!

[riseNConquer81]

All due respect Rise, show me where I'm making Ray out to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Read my posts and provide evidence of any inappropriate comments I made about Ray Rice. Otherwise, this is simply your interpretation because you don't like my comments. I wish Ray the best. But it was his actions that caused him to come under scrutiny. Are other players like Hardy getting off easy by comparison? I think so yes, I'm not here trying to destroy RR legacy, or pardon others actions like Hardy. I'm saying DV is wrong, regardless.

I dont "interpret" things, i take everything i read at face value.

Your comments being appropriate doesn't make them all warranted or necessary.

you cast aspersion on him at every turn while combating any notions that there's anything good about him at all. You're attempting to rewrite his whole life within the very limited frame of this incident and refuse to consider his character as a whole. When you speak of him, you set up a false dichotomy wherein he must be cast either as a good person or a monster when the truth is that the content of anyone's character exists on a spectrum. you attack the character of anyone who dares view him in a different light with passive aggressive insinuations and accuse them of making excuses for him when most are doing no such thing.

its nice you "wish Ray the best," but you throw dirt on his name the whole time so those wishes seem less than sincere, more like impression management for yourself. A begrudged and obligatory olive branch because that's the kind of thing people expect you to say even though all you really wanna do is make him stand trial for this incident and others that never happened, for the rest of his life.

would there be a next time if he wasnt caught on tape? seriously? people who exhibit spousal abuse as a normative pattern of behavior typically arent dumb enough to get caught on tape in the first place. You arent even being rational.

we already get domestic violence is wrong. that's a statement of the obvious, what ELSE is your point? and are you seriously incapable of getting it across without attacking Ray's character and continually casting doubt on him when others are accepting his humility and remorse, forgiving, and trying to let him move forward? Why do you need to do that?

Edited November 11, 2015 by riseNConquer81

[rmcjacket23]

This is what happens when you allow greed to ruin a sport. Trust me, if greg hardy was a washed up talent or middle of the road player with less value, he would be black balled from the league, kinda how Rice is getting black balled right now. It sickens me how players with talent and a name(Brady) can manage to get away with anything in this league. Lets not forget that Donte Stallworth killed a person, KILLED a person while drunk driving, and still managed to play again the next season. Mean while a regular joe like you and me would be in bars or death row. How does that make sense? It makes sense because we allow it. Adrian Peterson is playing right now not because he is innocent of what he did but because people need him on their fantasy rosters and the NFL and fantasy football makes tons of money off these people(Remember how Brady got off easy this year after destroying his phone only to find out that the judge that decided the case had brady on his fantasy team, talk about conflict of interest). Its the same in celeb life. Caitlin Jenner should be in bars right now for vehicular manslaughter but in america, if you have the cash and the fame, you can get out of anything............anything. What a great message to send to the kids who look up to these people. I myself would like to see a petition stating that the NFL no longer run female/children themed events until they clean up their image on how their players treat women and children. Beyond that, the NFL and associated organizations should not longer allow players with a past of domestic violence and excessive drug use host or become analyst of their shows as well. I am even open to the idea that players with an extreme history of the sorts be taken out of the HOF as well. Why should you have a bust in Canton of a man who beat women and took drugs, no way should someone like that taint the halls of Canton, ever!

Couple of problems I have with this very one-sided piece...

 

1. There's obviously a lot more details to the very simplistic "Stallworth killed a guy" case then you included here, which is partially what led to his "lighter" sentence. And I can assure you that very few people, particularly people with no criminal record, spend a lifetime in prison for DUI Manslaughter. In Florida alone, where this incident took place, the MAX sentence is 15 years. While I agree that his sentence appears to be on the "lighter" side, keep in mind that we also don't know all of the facts of the case, and if you believe his attorneys, they thought he had a great chance of getting the entire case thrown out.

 

2. Adrian Peterson is playing because he was convicted of a misdemeanor and was "guilty" of doing something that quite frankly was and in some ways still is currently acceptable punishment (though in my opinion excessive) by Southern standards. If you actually polled a large segment of the population spread out over the country, you'd find a stunning number of people would not consider what he did to be criminal. 

 

I certainly don't buy that what he did, and what Ray Rice did, to be infractions that warrant him never getting employment ever again. That's a bit excessive and easy to say from the comfort of fan couches.

 

3. The whole "message they send to the kids" argument is lazy and ignorant, because its not the NFL's job to sends messages to YOUR kids. You are the parent. You are supposed to be the role model, not some stranger on the TV who your child will never know, meet, or know anything about. If you allow your children to make role models out of people they will never know, that's just simply poor parenting, and YOU are the one to blame for that. Nobody else.

 

4. There's pros and cons to everything in life. While celebrities and rich/important people seem to get beneficial treatment from the legal system, keep in mind that the legal system isn't the be-all, end-all of punishment in this country.

 

Lets take Ray Rice as the prime example...

 

Sure, his "punishment" from the legal system was probably lighter than what the average Joe would get, though I assure you that the average person doesn't necessarily go straight to prison for punching his wife once, regardless of whether its on video.

 

But how about the other side of the punishment? What happens when Ray Rice knocks out his wife... he makes the cover of every major news outlet in America, has countless news articles both online and on TV describing him as a monster, and he can't realistically ever work a day in his life at the job he wants to ever again.

 

So what happens if I did that? Well, because I'm an average Joe, it MIGHT make 8 of my local newspaper, which is read by about 20 people. If there was a video of the incident, nobody would care, because I'm an average Joe and not a celebrity. Because of this, there's a good chance my employer will never find out about it, and given I have no criminal record, there's a good chance I'd never do jail time either. 

 

So I pay a hefty fine, go on probation and do a bunch of community service and I keep my job. Maybe 10 people on the planet will even know, and largely none of them matter. Meanwhile, Ray Rice basically can't walk out in public without being scoffed at and mocked by nearly everyone in society.

 

All that just to get a lighter sentence from the legal system. No thanks.

 

Moral of the story... stop thinking that the criminal justice system is the only thing on this planet that can "punish" people. As I type this, somebody is in court getting sentenced for domestic violence, and I can assure you he/she won't feel 1/10th of the punishment that Ray Rice has. 

 

Sometimes money and fame isn't all its cracked up to be, particularly when you do something "wrong". We bury guys for smoking weed during the season (which gets them suspended eventually), yet we could care less when the people we work with do it (and I assure you some of them do). 

[smiley4660]

Here's my take on all of this; the legal system needs to do their job first. The media needs to stop rushing to judgement when only partial information is available and the NFL needs to formalize/standardize how they determine punishments for players. Pro athletes are no more above the law than us average folks.

[rmcjacket23]

Here's my take on all of this; the legal system needs to do their job first. The media needs to stop rushing to judgement when only partial information is available and the NFL needs to formalize/standardize how they determine punishments for players. Pro athletes are no more above the law than us average folks.

1. Totally agree in regards to the legal system. That issue has nothing to do with the NFL. The biggest travesties in most of these cases is the legal system, not the NFL. 

 

2. Me personally, if I were the NFL, I'd largely get out of the punishment business to begin with. I'd apply punishment to mostly felony infractions only. Realistically, if the public is just going to ignore the fact that the legal system itself doesn't take a lot of these infractions seriously based on their punishment of them, then the NFL should largely ignore it also.

 

At the end of the day, the legal system in this country largely determines what's right and what's wrong. And if the legal system, no matter how accurate or inaccurate it is, determines that minor punishment should be applied to certain infractions, then the NFL should largely treat it the same way. Why the NFL ever thinks that punishing its players exponentially worse than the criminal justice system does is a good idea I'll never know, considering the public is already criticizing them for doing just that.

[Ravenshine]

I dont "interpret" things, i take everything i read at face value.Your comments being appropriate doesn't make them all warranted or necessary.you cast aspersion on him at every turn while combating any notions that there's anything good about him at all. You're attempting to rewrite his whole life within the very limited frame of this incident and refuse to consider his character as a whole. When you speak of him, you set up a false dichotomy wherein he must be cast either as a good person or a monster when the truth is that the content of anyone's character exists on a spectrum. you attack the character of anyone who dares view him in a different light with passive aggressive insinuations and accuse them of making excuses for him when most are doing no such thing.its nice you "wish Ray the best," but you throw dirt on his name the whole time so those wishes seem less than sincere, more like impression management for yourself. A begrudged and obligatory olive branch because that's the kind of thing people expect you to say even though all you really wanna do is make him stand trial for this incident and others that never happened, for the rest of his life.would there be a next time if he wasnt caught on tape? seriously? people who exhibit spousal abuse as a normative pattern of behavior typically arent dumb enough to get caught on tape in the first place. You arent even being rational.we already get domestic violence is wrong. that's a statement of the obvious, what ELSE is your point? and are you seriously incapable of getting it across without attacking Ray's character and continually casting doubt on him when others are accepting his humility and remorse, forgiving, and trying to let him move forward? Why do you need to do that?

Amazed to see how much my words have gotten to you. You do realize this is just an Internet site where we discuss our views right? We don't change people's lives (i.e. Ray Rice's life, Greg Hardy's life) for better or worse by the touch of the key pad. I mention this only because you are taking this to an extreme. My opinion of Ray Rice is just that...my opinion. You really can't change it nor understand it from where you are seeing it as being.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Ravenshine

[cushrinada1986]

Couple of problems I have with this very one-sided piece...

 

It is only one sided when someone who obviously is thinking more from a fan perspective than an actual caring human being perspective would be. 

 

1, For your stallworth argument. If you believe  that is the case then I feel for you truly. What part of driving drunk and hitting someone with your car, killing them, did you not pick up in that story? It does not get much more detailed than that. If you want to display pity for a murderer than that is your twisted agenda, but I wonder how the family of the victim would feel about that. Matter of fact, put yourself in their shoes and see if you would feel the same way....... you wouldn't, to make it easy for you....

 

2. as for Adrian Peterson, I need you to read this quote because honestly I really dont think you know about this case as much as you think you do.

"visible swelling, marks and cuts" on the child's ankles, limbs, back, buttocks and genitals"

On his genitals and you say that would be accepted by so many people in the south? that sounds kinda sick honestly and you should probably retract that statement and if not I really hope you don't have children if you think that is normal behavior. To beat a kid to that extent should involve jail time for any individual and as much as you think its just a fan complaining on their couch, you sound like you care more about your fantasy league than the safety of that poor child. Oh yeah, and the only reason Peterson would out the amount of time he was, was due to the team getting negative PR if they had let him back in and play immediately, which is sad that a teams only reason for not playing a guy in the situation like that was due to possible lost sales in jerseys and merch.

 

3. The whole "message they send to the kids" argument is lazy and ignorant comment is ignorant beyond belief and sad....... oh so sad. The NFL markets to kids everyday, the create events and even have websites and games that target kids. Not to mention the training camps players are paid to goto year after year. If you don't think that doesn't influence a child in some way REGARDLESS of how you raise your child, once again I hope you don't have any because you are seriously missing the point of the challenges a real parent faces. That comment alone spits in the face of any parent who have had issues with kids or teens who find inspiration and mentors elsewhere, which is like 95% of the population in this country. I guess if you deprive your kid from all forms of entertainment and sports I guess you would be right in that comment but you would also be a horrible parent as well...

 

 

4. There's pros and cons to everything in life. While celebrities and rich/important people seem to get beneficial treatment from the legal system, keep in mind that the legal system isn't the be-all, end-all of punishment in this country.

 

Ray Rice was a sacrificial lamb to help the NFL save face, if you cannot see that then keep living the lie but at the end of the day any player that did what he did or what Hardy did should never be allowed to be face of an NFL team. When you wear that shield you are more than just a player, you are an example. An example of what the league is and what they represent. when a player does anything that negatively affects the league, its up to the league to decide do they want this type of person to be the guy that people say "well, if what he did was so bad, then why didnt the NFL punish him?". Which in most cases if it could be swept under the rug by the league or the players union, it will be or at least contested and have a possible sentence reduction(hardy, brady). As an avg joe, I dont have as much influence over a mass of kids, people, and money as a superstar player or league official. But to someone who millions of kids look up to(and yeah, you say all those kids parents are horrible for allowing that to happen but like you say, easy to say from a fans couch right?.  End of the day, playing in the league is a privilege,  not a right, and unfortunately people have forgotten that, either for money or what every reason but it happens. They need to stop allowing people like hardy to play freely while players like Rice are blackballed from the game. Be fair, ban them all. 

 

 

[Ravenshine]

Cushrinada, I think you're right. And these athletes and celebrities who commit the crimes end up eventually being defended by their entourages and cronies who find all sorts of ridiculous ways to portray them as victims. Look at Hardy...he's claiming it racism and he's innocent...you know there's plenty of people supporting him he's not just doing this alone. Everyone you mentioned in your post...they all had some excuse that essentially painted them as victims, meanwhile the true victims became the ones blamed.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Ravenshine